#attackedbywhales #newboat WE SOLD THE BOAT! Now what??? Sailing Ocean F... #attackedbywhales #newboat


Steven Nieman
 



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Begin doorgestuurd bericht:

Van: Steven Nieman <stefnieman@...>

Onderwerp: #attackedbywhales #newboat WE SOLD THE BOAT! Now what??? Sailing Ocean F...

Vanaf 6.12 min. Amel rudders

https://youtube.com/watch?v=haVHkHks9v4&feature=share


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Arno Luijten
 
Edited

For those not seeing the link:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=haVHkHks9v4&feature=share

————————
Hmm, balance rudders on an Amel, not sure about that…

It seems Amel changed the construction of the rudder(s) quite drastically. But they are not alone, Hallberg Rassy is doing the very same thing. The added beam at the stern of the boat makes this inevitable.
From my personal point of view. I think everything under the waterline must be as close to bomb proof as you can realistically make it. So these modern hull shapes with twin rudders are posing a devils dilemma in my opinion.
I found it also a bit uncomfortable looking at the size of the P-bracket that guides the propellor-shaft. I would have preferred a upside-down V-shape for that thing. This setup seems very fragile as well and begging for bent propellor-shafts

I’m aware that these wide bottoms do give you nice sail performance but I’m not so sure if this new design is not conflicting with the prime directive of what Amel stands for.

I guess time will tell…

Cheers,

Arno Luijten,
SV Luna,
A54-121


eric freedman
 

Is that the New Amel 50?

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Arno Luijten
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2021 5:11 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] #attackedbywhales #newboat WE SOLD THE BOAT! Now what??? Sailing Ocean F...

 

[Edited Message Follows]

For those not seeing the link:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=haVHkHks9v4&feature=share

————————
Hmm, balance rudders on an Amel, not sure about that…

It seems Amel changed the construction of the rudder(s) quite drastically. But they are not alone, Hallberg Rassy is doing the very same thing. The added beam at the stern of the boat makes this inevitable.
From my personal point of view. I think everything under the waterline must be as close to bomb proof as you can realistically make it. So these modern hull shapes with twin rudders are posing a devils dilemma in my opinion.
I found it also a bit uncomfortable looking at the size of the P-bracket that guides the propellor-shaft. I would have preferred a upside-down V-shape for that thing. This setup seems very fragile as well and begging for bent propellor-shafts

I’m aware that these wide bottoms do give you nice sail performance but I’m not so sure if this new design is not conflicting with the prime directive of what Amel stands for.

I guess time will tell…

Cheers,

Arno Luijten,
SV Luna,
A54-121


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi all,

Yvonne and I visited Amel at La Rochelle when they were fitting out the first 50. It was in the water at the dock and we were given a walk through. I raised with them that it appeared to have moved from the all on ocean crossing circumnavigator build of previous Amels. I asked if their target market had shifted.

They told me that the target for the 50 was existing Amel owners who had done their major passages and wanted a new boat with all the great features of Amel but more suited for inshore sailing.

Who am I to argue with that. There are hundreds of us out there.

Kind Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 29 June 2021 at 15:44 eric freedman <kimberlite@...> wrote:

Is that the New Amel 50?

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Arno Luijten
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2021 5:11 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] #attackedbywhales #newboat WE SOLD THE BOAT! Now what??? Sailing Ocean F...

 

[Edited Message Follows]

For those not seeing the link:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=haVHkHks9v4&feature=share

————————
Hmm, balance rudders on an Amel, not sure about that…

It seems Amel changed the construction of the rudder(s) quite drastically. But they are not alone, Hallberg Rassy is doing the very same thing. The added beam at the stern of the boat makes this inevitable.
From my personal point of view. I think everything under the waterline must be as close to bomb proof as you can realistically make it. So these modern hull shapes with twin rudders are posing a devils dilemma in my opinion.
I found it also a bit uncomfortable looking at the size of the P-bracket that guides the propellor-shaft. I would have preferred a upside-down V-shape for that thing. This setup seems very fragile as well and begging for bent propellor-shafts

I’m aware that these wide bottoms do give you nice sail performance but I’m not so sure if this new design is not conflicting with the prime directive of what Amel stands for.

I guess time will tell…

Cheers,

Arno Luijten,
SV Luna,
A54-121

 



 


 


Colin - ex SV Island Pearl
 

Ah-ha! That is a very interesting comment by Amel, and probably pretty well researched too amongst existing Amel owners too who no longer intend to circumnavigate.

We too have found ourselves drawn towards some of the awesome features of the Amel 50 for a potential next boat. After enjoying a wonderfully safe, comfortable, and easy circumnavigation in a SuperMaramu 2000 despite some really tough conditions, we now found ourselves thinking more of doing local sailing mainly in the future, plus potentially the Med and then the normal "milk run" easier North Atlantic to the Caribbean, and then Pacific and home to Australia route next time which could be great in the 50. 

If we were doing the Indian Ocean again, we would be straight back in an SM2000!

I do hope that Amel sees that video and does something about strengthening those rudders, and also considers the prop shaft support issue too. That said, we had a huge and fast whale come threateningly down on us like a torpedo from the rear just before rounding the north tip of Madagascar, and I think nothing but a very strong old steel boat could realistically deal with that! Fortunately, in our case, it was a false alarm and the whale dived down and headed out to our stbd side not hitting us.

Colin Streeter
Currently boatless and enjoying land touring home in Australia
ex Island Pearl II

On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 2:32 PM Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:

Hi all,

Yvonne and I visited Amel at La Rochelle when they were fitting out the first 50. It was in the water at the dock and we were given a walk through. I raised with them that it appeared to have moved from the all on ocean crossing circumnavigator build of previous Amels. I asked if their target market had shifted.

They told me that the target for the 50 was existing Amel owners who had done their major passages and wanted a new boat with all the great features of Amel but more suited for inshore sailing.

Who am I to argue with that. There are hundreds of us out there.

Kind Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 29 June 2021 at 15:44 eric freedman <kimberlite@...> wrote:

Is that the New Amel 50?

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Arno Luijten
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2021 5:11 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] #attackedbywhales #newboat WE SOLD THE BOAT! Now what??? Sailing Ocean F...

 

[Edited Message Follows]

For those not seeing the link:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=haVHkHks9v4&feature=share

————————
Hmm, balance rudders on an Amel, not sure about that…

It seems Amel changed the construction of the rudder(s) quite drastically. But they are not alone, Hallberg Rassy is doing the very same thing. The added beam at the stern of the boat makes this inevitable.
From my personal point of view. I think everything under the waterline must be as close to bomb proof as you can realistically make it. So these modern hull shapes with twin rudders are posing a devils dilemma in my opinion.
I found it also a bit uncomfortable looking at the size of the P-bracket that guides the propellor-shaft. I would have preferred a upside-down V-shape for that thing. This setup seems very fragile as well and begging for bent propellor-shafts

I’m aware that these wide bottoms do give you nice sail performance but I’m not so sure if this new design is not conflicting with the prime directive of what Amel stands for.

I guess time will tell…

Cheers,

Arno Luijten,
SV Luna,
A54-121

 



 


 



--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi  Colin

I still love my SM.Ocean Pearl but if I suggested to Yvonne  a 50 she would say yes yes yes. But for me the systems on the SM, the ketch rig, the ease of sail control and the supreme sailing controlability in any conditions and the sea kindliness all combine to hold me.

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 29 June 2021 at 19:48 Colin - ex SV Island Pearl <colin.d.streeter@...> wrote:

Ah-ha! That is a very interesting comment by Amel, and probably pretty well researched too amongst existing Amel owners too who no longer intend to circumnavigate.

We too have found ourselves drawn towards some of the awesome features of the Amel 50 for a potential next boat. After enjoying a wonderfully safe, comfortable, and easy circumnavigation in a SuperMaramu 2000 despite some really tough conditions, we now found ourselves thinking more of doing local sailing mainly in the future, plus potentially the Med and then the normal "milk run" easier North Atlantic to the Caribbean, and then Pacific and home to Australia route next time which could be great in the 50. 

If we were doing the Indian Ocean again, we would be straight back in an SM2000!

I do hope that Amel sees that video and does something about strengthening those rudders, and also considers the prop shaft support issue too. That said, we had a huge and fast whale come threateningly down on us like a torpedo from the rear just before rounding the north tip of Madagascar, and I think nothing but a very strong old steel boat could realistically deal with that! Fortunately, in our case, it was a false alarm and the whale dived down and headed out to our stbd side not hitting us.

Colin Streeter
Currently boatless and enjoying land touring home in Australia
ex Island Pearl II

On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 2:32 PM Danny and Yvonne SIMMS < simms@...> wrote:

Hi all,

Yvonne and I visited Amel at La Rochelle when they were fitting out the first 50. It was in the water at the dock and we were given a walk through. I raised with them that it appeared to have moved from the all on ocean crossing circumnavigator build of previous Amels. I asked if their target market had shifted.

They told me that the target for the 50 was existing Amel owners who had done their major passages and wanted a new boat with all the great features of Amel but more suited for inshore sailing.

Who am I to argue with that. There are hundreds of us out there.

Kind Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 29 June 2021 at 15:44 eric freedman < kimberlite@...> wrote:

Is that the New Amel 50?

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Arno Luijten
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2021 5:11 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] #attackedbywhales #newboat WE SOLD THE BOAT! Now what??? Sailing Ocean F...

 

[Edited Message Follows]

For those not seeing the link:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=haVHkHks9v4&feature=share

————————
Hmm, balance rudders on an Amel, not sure about that…

It seems Amel changed the construction of the rudder(s) quite drastically. But they are not alone, Hallberg Rassy is doing the very same thing. The added beam at the stern of the boat makes this inevitable.
From my personal point of view. I think everything under the waterline must be as close to bomb proof as you can realistically make it. So these modern hull shapes with twin rudders are posing a devils dilemma in my opinion.
I found it also a bit uncomfortable looking at the size of the P-bracket that guides the propellor-shaft. I would have preferred a upside-down V-shape for that thing. This setup seems very fragile as well and begging for bent propellor-shafts

I’m aware that these wide bottoms do give you nice sail performance but I’m not so sure if this new design is not conflicting with the prime directive of what Amel stands for.

I guess time will tell…

Cheers,

Arno Luijten,
SV Luna,
A54-121

 



 


 

 

 



--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445


Alan Leslie
 

Absolutely agree with all of that.
Judith and I visited Amel in La Rochelle in 2019 and went for a sail on the 50.
Judith fell in love with it's creature comforts and layout and now says we'll buy one when we win the lottery!
I have all the above misgivings about it as an ocean crosser, but then maybe those days are over and as a coastal short passage cruiser the 50 would be ideal.
Certainly Antoine Riotin said the same things to me  - the target market for Amel has changed; it is no longer the circumnavigator as it was in Henri Amels day.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437 


Scott Williams
 

As an erstwhile Product planner, I understand the evolution that the A50 represents for Amel.  Stepping onto one of the 1st “show boats” in Sydney a few years ago, I for one “got it” instantly...

 

Key competition from multi-hulls with their bright, airy interiors and less rolling motion means that to some degree, monohulls have had to adapt in terms of habitability while still maintaining traditional Amel values to some extent...the “Admirals” at least are demanding it.  Hence the broad beams, big windows and single mast are a fightback in product concept and design.  So far from being a “coastal short passage cruiser”, I’m wondering which boat will actually deliver you on an “ocean crossing” as a far more comfortable, refreshed and alert mariner.

 

Looking forward to seeing Bill’s further impressions of his recent test, on his site...

 

 

 

Scott

Future A50 custodian

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Alan Leslie
Sent: Tuesday, 29 June 2021 10:39 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] #attackedbywhales #newboat WE SOLD THE BOAT! Now what??? Sailing Ocean F...

 

Absolutely agree with all of that.
Judith and I visited Amel in La Rochelle in 2019 and went for a sail on the 50.
Judith fell in love with it's creature comforts and layout and now says we'll buy one when we win the lottery!
I have all the above misgivings about it as an ocean crosser, but then maybe those days are over and as a coastal short passage cruiser the 50 would be ideal.
Certainly Antoine Riotin said the same things to me  - the target market for Amel has changed; it is no longer the circumnavigator as it was in Henri Amels day.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437 

 


Justin Maguire
 

I’d love to know - beyond who they market to - what changes make these new boats less seaworthy world cruisers? 

The only three specific features that are regularly brought up are:
- twin rudders without the protected prop
- the loss of the ketch rig. 
- the more modern hull form that bashes more up wind (though is nicer downwind)

Build quality is as good or arguably better..

Ease of systems maintenance is as good or arguably better. 

I’m genuinely curious to learn here 




On Jun 29, 2021, at 17:39, Alan Leslie <s.v.elyse@...> wrote:

Absolutely agree with all of that.
Judith and I visited Amel in La Rochelle in 2019 and went for a sail on the 50.
Judith fell in love with it's creature comforts and layout and now says we'll buy one when we win the lottery!
I have all the above misgivings about it as an ocean crosser, but then maybe those days are over and as a coastal short passage cruiser the 50 would be ideal.
Certainly Antoine Riotin said the same things to me  - the target market for Amel has changed; it is no longer the circumnavigator as it was in Henri Amels day.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437 


Paul Harries
 

Surely one serious safety concern is enough to get a serious prospective  buyer really concerned.
Rudder failure rates of 1% are mentioned in ARC rallues, dont know if this is correct or not.
The 50 looks superb, however a mid ocean rudder failure for my wife and I would really spoil our day.
Amel clearly know their primary sales market, for sailing in the Med an A50 would in my book be perfect. Mid pacific or in Indian ocean.....

https://oceansailormagazine.com/whats-wrong-with-spade-rudders/
--
Paul Harries
Prospective Amel Buyer


Justin Maguire
 

Personally I find it amazing that a pair of killer whales attacked the rudders, destroyed them, and

a) the boat didn’t sink 
b) the boat was able to still make its way to port 
c) the hull and rudder post sleeve wasn’t damaged
d) Amel flew in new rudders and had them back in the water in short order

if those animals had attacked any Amel the rudders would have been destroyed.. 

Rudder vs. killer whale = destroyed rudder!

YMMV


On Jun 29, 2021, at 19:36, Paul Harries via groups.io <Pharries@...> wrote:

Surely one serious safety concern is enough to get a serious prospective  buyer really concerned.
Rudder failure rates of 1% are mentioned in ARC rallues, dont know if this is correct or not.
The 50 looks superb, however a mid ocean rudder failure for my wife and I would really spoil our day.
Amel clearly know their primary sales market, for sailing in the Med an A50 would in my book be perfect. Mid pacific or in Indian ocean.....

https://oceansailormagazine.com/whats-wrong-with-spade-rudders/
--
Paul Harries
Prospective Amel Buyer


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi, I would put hull form at the top. The modern flying wedges are fast and the voluminous stern cockpit fashionable and popular,but I suspect ( I am a sailor not a Naval architect) not as sea kindly, nor I suspect nearly as controllable running in big winds and seas. The SM bow holds up well, doesn't dig in causing slewing. The SM tracks incredibly well off the wind in big seas.. Likewise the ketch rig. Reducing sail is a dream as is increasing it.

.Not criticizing the 50 in any way. It was just built to a different design brief to a particular target market. As we have come to expect from Amel, they have done it well.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 30 June 2021 at 10:29 Justin Maguire <justin_maguire@...> wrote:

I’d love to know - beyond who they market to - what changes make these new boats less seaworthy world cruisers? 

The only three specific features that are regularly brought up are:
- twin rudders without the protected prop
- the loss of the ketch rig. 
- the more modern hull form that bashes more up wind (though is nicer downwind)

Build quality is as good or arguably better..

Ease of systems maintenance is as good or arguably better. 

I’m genuinely curious to learn here 



 

On Jun 29, 2021, at 17:39, Alan Leslie <s.v.elyse@...> wrote:

Absolutely agree with all of that.
Judith and I visited Amel in La Rochelle in 2019 and went for a sail on the 50.
Judith fell in love with it's creature comforts and layout and now says we'll buy one when we win the lottery!
I have all the above misgivings about it as an ocean crosser, but then maybe those days are over and as a coastal short passage cruiser the 50 would be ideal.
Certainly Antoine Riotin said the same things to me  - the target market for Amel has changed; it is no longer the circumnavigator as it was in Henri Amels day.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437 


 


 


Dimitris Krasopoulos
 

It is a pity that the new Amel is mentioned as a Med boat. The delivery from La Rochelle in the Atlantic Ocean to the Med is an ocean passage or a Mediterranee adventure? The whale attack close to Gilbrartar is a coincidence? 

It seems to me that the focus to a reliable boat is distorted for marketing reasons. Bad sea conditions are everywhere even in the Med. 

Στάλθηκε από το iPhone of Dimitris Krasopoulos 

On Jun 30, 2021, at 6:23 AM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:



Hi, I would put hull form at the top. The modern flying wedges are fast and the voluminous stern cockpit fashionable and popular,but I suspect ( I am a sailor not a Naval architect) not as sea kindly, nor I suspect nearly as controllable running in big winds and seas. The SM bow holds up well, doesn't dig in causing slewing. The SM tracks incredibly well off the wind in big seas.. Likewise the ketch rig. Reducing sail is a dream as is increasing it.

.Not criticizing the 50 in any way. It was just built to a different design brief to a particular target market. As we have come to expect from Amel, they have done it well.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 30 June 2021 at 10:29 Justin Maguire <justin_maguire@...> wrote:

I’d love to know - beyond who they market to - what changes make these new boats less seaworthy world cruisers? 

The only three specific features that are regularly brought up are:
- twin rudders without the protected prop
- the loss of the ketch rig. 
- the more modern hull form that bashes more up wind (though is nicer downwind)

Build quality is as good or arguably better..

Ease of systems maintenance is as good or arguably better. 

I’m genuinely curious to learn here 



 

On Jun 29, 2021, at 17:39, Alan Leslie <s.v.elyse@...> wrote:

Absolutely agree with all of that.
Judith and I visited Amel in La Rochelle in 2019 and went for a sail on the 50.
Judith fell in love with it's creature comforts and layout and now says we'll buy one when we win the lottery!
I have all the above misgivings about it as an ocean crosser, but then maybe those days are over and as a coastal short passage cruiser the 50 would be ideal.
Certainly Antoine Riotin said the same things to me  - the target market for Amel has changed; it is no longer the circumnavigator as it was in Henri Amels day.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437 


 


 


Steven Nieman
 

Hi,
The attacks by the Orca’s around Portugal and around the bend into the Med is not a one time incident. The authorities think it’s a game by young macho Orca’s. There are around 10 incidents reported. Some say to stop the boat and just sit it out, others say to play music and 1 guy said it stopped when he started to sing to them😀😀
S.Nieman
Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad

Op 30 jun. 2021 om 08:31 heeft Dimitris Krasopoulos <dkrasopoulos@...> het volgende geschreven:

It is a pity that the new Amel is mentioned as a Med boat. The delivery from La Rochelle in the Atlantic Ocean to the Med is an ocean passage or a Mediterranee adventure? The whale attack close to Gilbrartar is a coincidence? 

It seems to me that the focus to a reliable boat is distorted for marketing reasons. Bad sea conditions are everywhere even in the Med. 

Στάλθηκε από το iPhone of Dimitris Krasopoulos 

On Jun 30, 2021, at 6:23 AM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:



Hi, I would put hull form at the top. The modern flying wedges are fast and the voluminous stern cockpit fashionable and popular,but I suspect ( I am a sailor not a Naval architect) not as sea kindly, nor I suspect nearly as controllable running in big winds and seas. The SM bow holds up well, doesn't dig in causing slewing. The SM tracks incredibly well off the wind in big seas.. Likewise the ketch rig. Reducing sail is a dream as is increasing it.

.Not criticizing the 50 in any way. It was just built to a different design brief to a particular target market. As we have come to expect from Amel, they have done it well.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 30 June 2021 at 10:29 Justin Maguire <justin_maguire@...> wrote:

I’d love to know - beyond who they market to - what changes make these new boats less seaworthy world cruisers? 

The only three specific features that are regularly brought up are:
- twin rudders without the protected prop
- the loss of the ketch rig. 
- the more modern hull form that bashes more up wind (though is nicer downwind)

Build quality is as good or arguably better..

Ease of systems maintenance is as good or arguably better. 

I’m genuinely curious to learn here 



 

On Jun 29, 2021, at 17:39, Alan Leslie <s.v.elyse@...> wrote:

Absolutely agree with all of that.
Judith and I visited Amel in La Rochelle in 2019 and went for a sail on the 50.
Judith fell in love with it's creature comforts and layout and now says we'll buy one when we win the lottery!
I have all the above misgivings about it as an ocean crosser, but then maybe those days are over and as a coastal short passage cruiser the 50 would be ideal.
Certainly Antoine Riotin said the same things to me  - the target market for Amel has changed; it is no longer the circumnavigator as it was in Henri Amels day.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437 


 


 


Ann-Sofie, S/Y Lady Annila
 

the attacs are from La Coruna, Spain (Bay of Bisquay) to Gibraltar so it is probably 2 or 3 groups of Orcas. 2 days ago ther was attacks just outside Faro and Portimao on the Portuguese Algarve coast as well.

You can find more information, and how to act here: www.orcaiberica.org


Regards
Annsofie Svanberg
S/Y Lady Annila, SM232, 1998
Present in La Linea de Conception, Bay of Gibraltar, Spain.

Den 2021-06-30 kl. 10:40, skrev Steven Nieman:
Hi,
The attacks by the Orca’s around Portugal and around the bend into the Med is not a one time incident. The authorities think it’s a game by young macho Orca’s. There are around 10 incidents reported. Some say to stop the boat and just sit it out, others say to play music and 1 guy said it stopped when he started to sing to them😀😀
S.Nieman
Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad

Op 30 jun. 2021 om 08:31 heeft Dimitris Krasopoulos <dkrasopoulos@...> het volgende geschreven:

 It is a pity that the new Amel is mentioned as a Med boat. The delivery from La Rochelle in the Atlantic Ocean to the Med is an ocean passage or a Mediterranee adventure? The whale attack close to Gilbrartar is a coincidence? 

It seems to me that the focus to a reliable boat is distorted for marketing reasons. Bad sea conditions are everywhere even in the Med. 

Στάλθηκε από το iPhone of Dimitris Krasopoulos 

On Jun 30, 2021, at 6:23 AM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:



Hi, I would put hull form at the top. The modern flying wedges are fast and the voluminous stern cockpit fashionable and popular,but I suspect ( I am a sailor not a Naval architect) not as sea kindly, nor I suspect nearly as controllable running in big winds and seas. The SM bow holds up well, doesn't dig in causing slewing. The SM tracks incredibly well off the wind in big seas.. Likewise the ketch rig. Reducing sail is a dream as is increasing it.

.Not criticizing the 50 in any way. It was just built to a different design brief to a particular target market. As we have come to expect from Amel, they have done it well.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 30 June 2021 at 10:29 Justin Maguire <justin_maguire@...> wrote:

I’d love to know - beyond who they market to - what changes make these new boats less seaworthy world cruisers? 

The only three specific features that are regularly brought up are:
- twin rudders without the protected prop
- the loss of the ketch rig. 
- the more modern hull form that bashes more up wind (though is nicer downwind)

Build quality is as good or arguably better..

Ease of systems maintenance is as good or arguably better. 

I’m genuinely curious to learn here 



 

On Jun 29, 2021, at 17:39, Alan Leslie <s.v.elyse@...> wrote:

Absolutely agree with all of that.
Judith and I visited Amel in La Rochelle in 2019 and went for a sail on the 50.
Judith fell in love with it's creature comforts and layout and now says we'll buy one when we win the lottery!
I have all the above misgivings about it as an ocean crosser, but then maybe those days are over and as a coastal short passage cruiser the 50 would be ideal.
Certainly Antoine Riotin said the same things to me  - the target market for Amel has changed; it is no longer the circumnavigator as it was in Henri Amels day.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437 


 


 

-- 
Ann-Sofie Svanberg
Edificio Pluma
Rua Teofilo Braga 17-6a
8500-668 Portimao
Portugal

00351-914 879 021


Billy Newport
 

Is the rudder on the 55 the same as the 50? 2 shells glued together?

Thanks
Billy (55#56)


Patrick McAneny
 

It appears as though the rudders sprang open like a clam shell,as if there was tension , when released they assumed their natural position. What would be the reason for not adding layers of fiberglass in addition to the glue, to bond the rudder halves together, making them more robust. Are the rudders on the SM not  fiber glassed together ? 
Pat
SM Shenanigans
Sassafras River, Md.


-----Original Message-----
From: Billy Newport <billy@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Jun 30, 2021 6:07 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] #attackedbywhales #newboat WE SOLD THE BOAT! Now what??? Sailing Ocean F...

Is the rudder on the 55 the same as the 50? 2 shells glued together?

Thanks
Billy (55#56)


Aldo Roldan
 

This is all great news for the wallet of present owners of Amel ketches:  if Amel has, by statement of its officers,  indirectly endorsed the ketches as THE blue water, ocean-crossing vessel, which they no longer manufacture, stand to reason that they will become increasingly sought after by the crowd that wants just that: world cruising.  With more sailors falling into the current demographics of the world cruiser, as the world ages, Amel ketches will become a priceless gem!

AldoR
SV Araucaria 
Amel55 hull 36

ps.  No, I am not entertaining offers to sell mine.  I will hold onto it for as long as I can!

On Jun 30, 2021, at 8:59 AM, Patrick McAneny via groups.io <sailw32@...> wrote:


It appears as though the rudders sprang open like a clam shell,as if there was tension , when released they assumed their natural position. What would be the reason for not adding layers of fiberglass in addition to the glue, to bond the rudder halves together, making them more robust. Are the rudders on the SM not  fiber glassed together ? 
Pat
SM Shenanigans
Sassafras River, Md.


-----Original Message-----
From: Billy Newport <billy@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Jun 30, 2021 6:07 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] #attackedbywhales #newboat WE SOLD THE BOAT! Now what??? Sailing Ocean F...

Is the rudder on the 55 the same as the 50? 2 shells glued together?

Thanks
Billy (55#56)


 

This is certainly a healthy discussion. I believe there are additional new and beneficial benefits of the Amel 50 twin rudder system. This may be a little confusing so I will try to describe:

Assuming the A-50 owner selected dual autopilots
  1. Either rudder can operate independently with each rudder's independent autopilot 
    1. Or each rudder's independent emergency tiller. 
  2. Both rudders can operate together with either autopilot
    1. Or together with the  independent emergency tiller connected to either quadrant
  3. The helm cables are connected to the port rudder quadrant, which can operate independently of the starboard rudder. 
  4. There is a removable stainless steel bar that connects the two quadrants. So in some emergencies, the Port rudder can be steered by the helm, its independent autopilot, or its independent tiller.
Regarding rudder failures on ocean crossings, it is too common with an "unmentioned brand" but virtually unheard of with Amel. What is more common is the loss of the autopilot, and according to Jimmy Cornell (founder of the ARC), autopilot failure happens with 5-10% of ocean crossings. I always recommend either a complete autopilot redundancy or a complete set of spares when crossing an ocean. I also recommend that the autopilot drive be installed on the quadrant rather than only at the helm.

I believe that the A-50 with dual autopilots includes all of my usual client recommendations for safety while crossing oceans. Additionally, Amel has added to the A50  the following:
  1. Watertight steering compartment with a separate bilge pump and alarm
  2. Dual Rudder Reference, but also each one on its rudder quadrants
  3. Dual Autopilot hydraulic pump & drive, but also each one on its rudder quadrants
  4. A new seal for the rudder post, replacing the older packing (I am not sure what this is and would love to know more...maybe an A50 owner will comment on this photo:
image.png
I absolutely love and respect the circa 70-80s design of the Amel rudder which I believe will be found on most of these models: Kirk, Sharki, Maramu, Santorin, Super Maramu, A54, A55, and A64. 

I also believe that the A50 rudder system has added to Amel's longtime tradition of reliability of its rudder.

Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 10:06 AM Aldo Roldan via groups.io <aroldan1796=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
This is all great news for the wallet of present owners of Amel ketches:  if Amel has, by statement of its officers,  indirectly endorsed the ketches as THE blue water, ocean-crossing vessel, which they no longer manufacture, stand to reason that they will become increasingly sought after by the crowd that wants just that: world cruising.  With more sailors falling into the current demographics of the world cruiser, as the world ages, Amel ketches will become a priceless gem!

AldoR
SV Araucaria 
Amel55 hull 36

ps.  No, I am not entertaining offers to sell mine.  I will hold onto it for as long as I can!

On Jun 30, 2021, at 8:59 AM, Patrick McAneny via groups.io <sailw32=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:


It appears as though the rudders sprang open like a clam shell,as if there was tension , when released they assumed their natural position. What would be the reason for not adding layers of fiberglass in addition to the glue, to bond the rudder halves together, making them more robust. Are the rudders on the SM not  fiber glassed together ? 
Pat
SM Shenanigans
Sassafras River, Md.


-----Original Message-----
From: Billy Newport <billy@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Jun 30, 2021 6:07 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] #attackedbywhales #newboat WE SOLD THE BOAT! Now what??? Sailing Ocean F...

Is the rudder on the 55 the same as the 50? 2 shells glued together?

Thanks
Billy (55#56)


John Clanton
 

Consider the cost of a redundant autopilot while at the dock verses how much you would be willing to pay for a second autopilot when half way across the Pacific.



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