Topics

Bottom paint removal


Patrick McAneny
 

I have about 4 layers of paint on my boat I would like to be rid of. I have been sanding boats for over 50 yrs. and have never found it fun. Using 40 grit on a 5 " orbital today,it took so long to get down to the gelcoat ,that I estimate it would take me a couple hundred hrs. to do take the entire boat down to the gelcoat. The marina I am in does not do soda ,only sand blasting. The sand blasting would cost me about $7,000.00, a chunk of change ,better spent having fun. 
Does anybody have another option for stripping bottom paint that consumes less time and money. I would rather dig ditches than sand bottom paint, so if you need a ditch dug and enjoy sanding bottom paint,maybe we can work a deal,call me !
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


Mark McGovern
 

Pat,

Contact JJ at Osprey Marine Composites at Herrington Harbor North in Deale, MD:

Local: 410-867-3022
E-mail: jj@...
Web: www.ospreycomposites.com

They soda blasted my Amel down to the gelcoat for around US$2900 in December 2018.  I was very pleased with the work.  Just remind him that Amel's have a cast iron keel so that they are prepared to epoxy coat it immediately after blasting it.

-- 
 
 
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA


Patrick McAneny
 

Mark, That is less than half what I was quoted and frankly more inline considering the time and materials to do the job. Are they able to do anything to the bottom of the keel. I have always wondered how one could strip ,fair and coat the bottom of the keel.
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: Mark McGovern <mfmcgovern@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Jul 8, 2020 5:07 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bottom paint removal

Pat,

Contact JJ at Osprey Marine Composites at Herrington Harbor North in Deale, MD:

Local: 410-867-3022
E-mail: jj@...
Web: www.ospreycomposites.com

They soda blasted my Amel down to the gelcoat for around US$2900 in December 2018.  I was very pleased with the work.  Just remind him that Amel's have a cast iron keel so that they are prepared to epoxy coat it immediately after blasting it.

-- 
 
 
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA


Craig Briggs
 

Pat,
When I bought Sangaris in 1999, I stripped her myself with the nastiest paint stripper I could find. Don't recall the brand name and it's likely banned by EPA these days, but shop around. If the label is mostly safety warnings and health disclaimers go ahead and give it a try - you're likely done procreating anyway. Try non-boating stores as they've wussified all the boating products.  

I did 3-foot-ish sections, liberally brushing on one thick coat, waiting a few minutes (depends on temperature) and EASILY removing stripper and paint with a putty knife. Then a second coat which took it down to gel coat with just a few spots left. Finished with bronze wool dipped in the remover for perfect result.  Maybe 10-20 minutes per square. Do use lot's of PPE. I used silicone covered cotton gloves and kept a bucket of cold water next to me to dip them in when the burning got too intense. Also poured some on my topsiders when the feet began to burn.  Nasty stuff. Hope you can still find some. It was so easy I did it again in Mexico 5 years later - it was on the shelf in the hardware stores next to the US banned R-12 freon cans I needed for my reefer. 

Btw, gelcoat is impervious to the stuff. So is Awlgrip type paint, which I had on my last boat and used the stripper to clean the boot stripe. If you've got barrier coat applied, I don't know about that, but then, thanks to the "Father of Fiberglass, Amels don't need barrier coat. 

Have fun with your toxic chemicals!
Craig


Mark McGovern
 

Pat,

They are making a killing even at that price as it takes them only one day and it is pretty much just one guy doing the work.  However, it was still worth the cost when you compare it to the time and materials that it will cost you to do it yourself, nevermind the wear and tear on your body! 

Discuss the bottom of the keel with JJ.  If I remember correctly, for them to do the whole bottom it would have required a re-block of the boat by the yard (~$300ish) while they have the boat in their section of the yard.  And then because I was doing more work on the hard, I was going to need yet another re-block to move me out of Ospreys section of the yard to my spot on the hard.  So I just had Osprey do the bottom of the keel that was exposed and then when the marina moved the boat out of Ospreys area to my spot on the hard I asked them to make sure the timbers under the keel were in different spots.  I then ground back and epoxy coated the two "stripes" under the keel myself.  In hindsight, I should have just paid Osprey to do the whole bottom of the keel.  Grinding the old epoxy off the bottom of that keel while laying down on gravel is NOT fun!


--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA


Patrick McAneny
 

Craig, It sounds like so much fun ,you did 5 yrs. later,just for giggles. I think I might give it a try,but they probably have removed all the stuff that made it work so well. Treated lumber used to last forever ,since they removed the arsenic ,it starts rotting in a matter of years. That makes me think, I used to find bits of wood in the cookies my wife used to make.I wonder...
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: Craig & Katherine Briggs SN 68 Sangaris Tropic Isle Harbor, FL via groups.io <sangaris@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Jul 8, 2020 5:35 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bottom paint removal

Pat,
When I bought Sangaris in 1999, I stripped her myself with the nastiest paint stripper I could find. Don't recall the brand name and it's likely banned by EPA these days, but shop around. If the label is mostly safety warnings and health disclaimers go ahead and give it a try - you're likely done procreating anyway. Try non-boating stores as they've wussified all the boating products.  

I did 3-foot-ish sections, liberally brushing on one thick coat, waiting a few minutes (depends on temperature) and EASILY removing stripper and paint with a putty knife. Then a second coat which took it down to gel coat with just a few spots left. Finished with bronze wool dipped in the remover for perfect result.  Maybe 10-20 minutes per square. Do use lot's of PPE. I used silicone covered cotton gloves and kept a bucket of cold water next to me to dip them in when the burning got too intense. Also poured some on my topsiders when the feet began to burn.  Nasty stuff. Hope you can still find some. It was so easy I did it again in Mexico 5 years later - it was on the shelf in the hardware stores next to the US banned R-12 freon cans I needed for my reefer. 

Btw, gelcoat is impervious to the stuff. So is Awlgrip type paint, which I had on my last boat and used the stripper to clean the boot stripe. If you've got barrier coat applied, I don't know about that, but then, thanks to the "Father of Fiberglass, Amels don't need barrier coat. 

Have fun with your toxic chemicals!
Craig


Craig Briggs
 
Edited

Pat, I did some Google-ing and it looks like methylene choloride and/or N-methylpyrrolidone (NMP) is the stuff that really works but is toxic. If you're neither pregnant nor stupid, go for it, if you can find it. The article said Home Depot and Lowes announced a couple of years ago they'd stop carrying it, although they still had some stock. AutoZone still carried it. Obama's EPA was working to ban it, but those efforts may have been reversed, according to the article. 

Just found it on Home Depot website for $42 per gallon - called Klean Strip. Encouraging as label says the State of California has determined it will kill you, so it must be good. Plus lots of other warnings. Go for it!  Also got a hit on Goof Off Pro Paint Stripper that contains Metheylene choloride 60% - maybe there's hope yet!

Btw, all I ever had was ground glass in my oatmeal - cookies were always great.
Cheers


Patrick McAneny
 

Mark, So it sounds as though they were able to do most of the bottom of the keel,correct ? That surprises me ,I would have thought the keel would be too close to the ground to work on,unless it is on tall blocks. Normally I am less than 6 inches off the ground. Sandblasting is hard work ,but it is amazing that a marina will ask you to pay $7,000. for one man/day of work . I did not accept their offer ,but $3000 .,while still a lot like you said ,does save you a lot of work ,not many options ,can't do it yourself,so they can charge what they want,little competition . I will try the paste removal stuff and if it does not work out ,I will give J.J. a call.
Thanks Again,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: Mark McGovern <mfmcgovern@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Jul 8, 2020 6:06 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bottom paint removal

Pat,

They are making a killing even at that price as it takes them only one day and it is pretty much just one guy doing the work.  However, it was still worth the cost when you compare it to the time and materials that it will cost you to do it yourself, nevermind the wear and tear on your body! 

Discuss the bottom of the keel with JJ.  If I remember correctly, for them to do the whole bottom it would have required a re-block of the boat by the yard (~$300ish) while they have the boat in their section of the yard.  And then because I was doing more work on the hard, I was going to need yet another re-block to move me out of Ospreys section of the yard to my spot on the hard.  So I just had Osprey do the bottom of the keel that was exposed and then when the marina moved the boat out of Ospreys area to my spot on the hard I asked them to make sure the timbers under the keel were in different spots.  I then ground back and epoxy coated the two "stripes" under the keel myself.  In hindsight, I should have just paid Osprey to do the whole bottom of the keel.  Grinding the old epoxy off the bottom of that keel while laying down on gravel is NOT fun!


--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA


Patrick McAneny
 

Craig , I will buy some and give it a try. I don't mind risking my life to get the bottom paint off my boat, and as you said ,if they banned it in California it must be good. Now I know why my oatmeal has been crunchy.
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: Craig & Katherine Briggs SN 68 Sangaris Tropic Isle Harbor, FL via groups.io <sangaris@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Jul 8, 2020 8:44 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bottom paint removal

[Edited Message Follows]
Pat, I did some Google-ing and it looks like methylene choloride and/or N-methylpyrrolidone (NMP) is the stuff that really works but is toxic. If you're neither pregnant nor stupid, go for it, if you can find it. The article said Home Depot and Lowes announced a couple of years ago they'd stop carrying it, although they still had some stock. AutoZone still carried it. Obama's EPA was working to ban it, but those efforts may have been reversed, according to the article. 

Just found it on Home Depot website for $42 per gallon - called Klean Strip. Encouraging as label says the State of California has determined it will kill you, so it must be good. Plus lots of other warnings. Go for it!  Also got a hit on Goof Off Pro Paint Stripper that contains Metheylene choloride 60% - maybe there's hope yet!

Btw, all I ever had was ground glass in my oatmeal - cookies were always great.
Cheers


Mark McGovern
 

Pat,

HHN uses fairly large timbers for a boat our size - roughly 8"x8".  It gave me just enough room to lay on my side, and use and grind the old epoxy back.  It was gruelling work and OSHA would definitely not approve as I had to remove the safety guard off the angle grinder, as well the handle, and use it one-handed - pretty much by "feel" since I couldn't see the surface I was grinding while grinding.  It came out OK, but as I said above, in hindsight, I should have just let Osprey do the whole thing.  Here is a pic of the finished keel:

IMG_20190425_174217089_HDR.jpg

On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 9:11 PM Patrick McAneny via groups.io <sailw32=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Mark, So it sounds as though they were able to do most of the bottom of the keel,correct ? That surprises me ,I would have thought the keel would be too close to the ground to work on,unless it is on tall blocks. Normally I am less than 6 inches off the ground. Sandblasting is hard work ,but it is amazing that a marina will ask you to pay $7,000. for one man/day of work . I did not accept their offer ,but $3000 .,while still a lot like you said ,does save you a lot of work ,not many options ,can't do it yourself,so they can charge what they want,little competition . I will try the paste removal stuff and if it does not work out ,I will give J.J. a call.
Thanks Again,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: Mark McGovern <mfmcgovern@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Jul 8, 2020 6:06 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bottom paint removal

Pat,

They are making a killing even at that price as it takes them only one day and it is pretty much just one guy doing the work.  However, it was still worth the cost when you compare it to the time and materials that it will cost you to do it yourself, nevermind the wear and tear on your body! 

Discuss the bottom of the keel with JJ.  If I remember correctly, for them to do the whole bottom it would have required a re-block of the boat by the yard (~$300ish) while they have the boat in their section of the yard.  And then because I was doing more work on the hard, I was going to need yet another re-block to move me out of Ospreys section of the yard to my spot on the hard.  So I just had Osprey do the bottom of the keel that was exposed and then when the marina moved the boat out of Ospreys area to my spot on the hard I asked them to make sure the timbers under the keel were in different spots.  I then ground back and epoxy coated the two "stripes" under the keel myself.  In hindsight, I should have just paid Osprey to do the whole bottom of the keel.  Grinding the old epoxy off the bottom of that keel while laying down on gravel is NOT fun!


--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA


--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA


Aras
 

Shiny, clean and new looking.  Mark you can do my Bottom anytime....



Aras Grinius
SV FIASCO Sharki #163


Jarek Zemlo
 

Just did the ice blasting to the gel-coat of my AMEL SM in Belgium and put 3 layers of epoxy + 2 layers of antifouling. Ice blasting was very nice and gentle to the gel-coat. Paid EUR 3.000 gross for the ice-blasting including disposal and cleaning.
--
Jarek Zemlo
NOA BLUE


Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown
 

Mark,

 

I may have missed something in this thread, but why is the keel a different colour?

 

Cheers,

Paul

S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 - Grenada

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mark McGovern
Sent: 09 July 2020 17:00
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bottom paint removal

 

Pat,

 

HHN uses fairly large timbers for a boat our size - roughly 8"x8".  It gave me just enough room to lay on my side, and use and grind the old epoxy back.  It was gruelling work and OSHA would definitely not approve as I had to remove the safety guard off the angle grinder, as well the handle, and use it one-handed - pretty much by "feel" since I couldn't see the surface I was grinding while grinding.  It came out OK, but as I said above, in hindsight, I should have just let Osprey do the whole thing.  Here is a pic of the finished keel:

 

 

On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 9:11 PM Patrick McAneny via groups.io <sailw32=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

Mark, So it sounds as though they were able to do most of the bottom of the keel,correct ? That surprises me ,I would have thought the keel would be too close to the ground to work on,unless it is on tall blocks. Normally I am less than 6 inches off the ground. Sandblasting is hard work ,but it is amazing that a marina will ask you to pay $7,000. for one man/day of work . I did not accept their offer ,but $3000 .,while still a lot like you said ,does save you a lot of work ,not many options ,can't do it yourself,so they can charge what they want,little competition . I will try the paste removal stuff and if it does not work out ,I will give J.J. a call.

Thanks Again,

Pat

SM Shenanigans

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark McGovern <mfmcgovern@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Jul 8, 2020 6:06 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bottom paint removal

Pat,

They are making a killing even at that price as it takes them only one day and it is pretty much just one guy doing the work.  However, it was still worth the cost when you compare it to the time and materials that it will cost you to do it yourself, nevermind the wear and tear on your body! 

Discuss the bottom of the keel with JJ.  If I remember correctly, for them to do the whole bottom it would have required a re-block of the boat by the yard (~$300ish) while they have the boat in their section of the yard.  And then because I was doing more work on the hard, I was going to need yet another re-block to move me out of Ospreys section of the yard to my spot on the hard.  So I just had Osprey do the bottom of the keel that was exposed and then when the marina moved the boat out of Ospreys area to my spot on the hard I asked them to make sure the timbers under the keel were in different spots.  I then ground back and epoxy coated the two "stripes" under the keel myself.  In hindsight, I should have just paid Osprey to do the whole bottom of the keel.  Grinding the old epoxy off the bottom of that keel while laying down on gravel is NOT fun!


--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA


--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA


--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98


Mark McGovern
 

Paul,

The keel did not yet have the bottom paint applied to it in the picture I posted.  The gray color is the epoxy coating.

--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA


James Alton
 

Jarek,

First that I have heard of ice blasting but sounds like a good idea.  I would certainly stick to a mechanical removal method to avoid possible damage to the gel coat from harsh chemicals.  In 2017 we were given the job to complete the stripping the bottom, barrier coating and Copper Coating a 45’ Ketch (non Amel).  The owner had been using a water based stripper from West Marine which said right on the package that the product was safe on gel coat and had thrown in the towel when he realized what a big job it was.  We began dry scrapping  (using carbide bladed scrappers)  the hull bare and began finding numerous areas where the gel coat had softened significantly, right down to the glass.  We tried washing the hull with soap and water numerous times and allowing the bottom to dry but the gel coat remained soft in areas.  In the affected areas, the gel coat acted like hard chalk that would turn to powder under the scrapper.  The gel coat on the parts of the boat that were not being stripped was hard as glass.  In fact the hull topsides are of the original gel coat finish, not painted so this softening on the bottom was definitely due to the stripper.   We ended up dry scrapping the paint off and then machine/vacuum sanding off all of the gel coat right down to the glass.   We even found some minor softening in the outer glass layers.  Keep in mind that the polyester resin in the hull is very similar chemically to the gel coat.    Now it is true that the owner of this boat was not following the instructions for the stripper in that he left the material on the hull for an extended period (months) so certainly this was a factor.  But the fact of the matter is that there are strippers that can do permanent damage to gel coat and I personally would not take the chance of damaging such a large part of the hull to save a little time stripping a bottom.  

Best,

James Alton
SV Sueño
Maramu #220

On Jul 9, 2020, at 5:32 PM, Jarek Zemlo via groups.io <noa_blue@...> wrote:

Just did the ice blasting to the gel-coat of my AMEL SM in Belgium and put 3 layers of epoxy + 2 layers of antifouling. Ice blasting was very nice and gentle to the gel-coat. Paid EUR 3.000 gross for the ice-blasting including disposal and cleaning.
--
Jarek Zemlo
NOA BLUE