Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion


Mohammad Shirloo
 

Our bow thruster stopped working on one direction. While pulling out the manuals, I would appreciate any information regarding the potential source. 

Mohammad and Aty
B&B Kokomo 
A54 #099


Dimitris Krasopoulos
 

Possible the propeller pin is sheared have a check diving if the propeller can be rotated by hand

Στάλθηκε από το iPhone of Dimitris Krasopoulos 

On Jun 14, 2021, at 7:21 PM, Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...> wrote:


Our bow thruster stopped working on one direction. While pulling out the manuals, I would appreciate any information regarding the potential source. 

Mohammad and Aty
B&B Kokomo 
A54 #099


Doug Smith
 

Mohammad, I went through a similar issue last year with mine.  It ended up being the IPC relay, which I was able to diagnose using the SP_troubleshooting guide.  I also showed the steps used in my details of bow thruster details PDF.  It is picture 11,page 7.  You will use a jumper wire on the solenoid, to see where the problem is.

 

Doug Smith

S/V Aventura, Amel 54-113

White Point Marina, Kinsale VA USA

 

From: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...>
Reply-To: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Date: Monday, June 14, 2021 at 12:21 PM
To: "Amel group new .iso" <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion

 

Our bow thruster stopped working on one direction. While pulling out the manuals, I would appreciate any information regarding the potential source. 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo 

A54 #099


antonio scipioni
 

I had the same problem last year and Was the joystick failure in cockpit. 
Br
Antonio
Sn108 Vagabundo in rome now 

Inviato da iPhone

Il giorno 14 giu 2021, alle ore 19:08, Doug Smith via groups.io <dugsmith98@...> ha scritto:



Mohammad, I went through a similar issue last year with mine.  It ended up being the IPC relay, which I was able to diagnose using the SP_troubleshooting guide.  I also showed the steps used in my details of bow thruster details PDF.  It is picture 11,page 7.  You will use a jumper wire on the solenoid, to see where the problem is.

 

Doug Smith

S/V Aventura, Amel 54-113

White Point Marina, Kinsale VA USA

 

From: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...>
Reply-To: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Date: Monday, June 14, 2021 at 12:21 PM
To: "Amel group new .iso" <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion

 

Our bow thruster stopped working on one direction. While pulling out the manuals, I would appreciate any information regarding the potential source. 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo 

A54 #099

<Bowthruster details SP 155 TCi.pdf>
<SP_Troubleshooting_Guide_with_IPC.pdf>


Mohammad Shirloo
 

Thanks doug fir the quick reply. I’ll try it out and see what I can find. Where did you buy the relay from? Are there other spare parts that yiu found is good to carry on board?

Respectfully;


Mohammad Shirloo
+1-323-633-2222 Cell
+1-424-644-0908 Fax


From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Doug Smith via groups.io <dugsmith98@...>
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2021 7:07:53 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion
 

Mohammad, I went through a similar issue last year with mine.  It ended up being the IPC relay, which I was able to diagnose using the SP_troubleshooting guide.  I also showed the steps used in my details of bow thruster details PDF.  It is picture 11,page 7.  You will use a jumper wire on the solenoid, to see where the problem is.

 

Doug Smith

S/V Aventura, Amel 54-113

White Point Marina, Kinsale VA USA

 

From: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...>
Reply-To: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Date: Monday, June 14, 2021 at 12:21 PM
To: "Amel group new .iso" <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion

 

Our bow thruster stopped working on one direction. While pulling out the manuals, I would appreciate any information regarding the potential source. 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo 

A54 #099


Mohammad Shirloo
 

Thanks DIMITRIS. We get no sound , but I’ll check. 

Respectfully;


Mohammad Shirloo
+1-323-633-2222 Cell
+1-424-644-0908 Fax


From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Dimitris Krasopoulos via groups.io <dkrasopoulos@...>
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2021 7:00:25 PM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion
 
Possible the propeller pin is sheared have a check diving if the propeller can be rotated by hand

Στάλθηκε από το iPhone of Dimitris Krasopoulos 

On Jun 14, 2021, at 7:21 PM, Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...> wrote:


Our bow thruster stopped working on one direction. While pulling out the manuals, I would appreciate any information regarding the potential source. 

Mohammad and Aty
B&B Kokomo 
A54 #099


Mohammad Shirloo
 

Thanks Antonio. I’ll check it.

Respectfully;


Mohammad Shirloo
+1-323-633-2222 Cell
+1-424-644-0908 Fax


From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of antonio scipioni via groups.io <stilemare@...>
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2021 8:07:24 PM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion
 
I had the same problem last year and Was the joystick failure in cockpit. 
Br
Antonio
Sn108 Vagabundo in rome now 

Inviato da iPhone

Il giorno 14 giu 2021, alle ore 19:08, Doug Smith via groups.io <dugsmith98@...> ha scritto:



Mohammad, I went through a similar issue last year with mine.  It ended up being the IPC relay, which I was able to diagnose using the SP_troubleshooting guide.  I also showed the steps used in my details of bow thruster details PDF.  It is picture 11,page 7.  You will use a jumper wire on the solenoid, to see where the problem is.

 

Doug Smith

S/V Aventura, Amel 54-113

White Point Marina, Kinsale VA USA

 

From: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...>
Reply-To: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Date: Monday, June 14, 2021 at 12:21 PM
To: "Amel group new .iso" <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion

 

Our bow thruster stopped working on one direction. While pulling out the manuals, I would appreciate any information regarding the potential source. 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo 

A54 #099

<Bowthruster details SP 155 TCi.pdf>
<SP_Troubleshooting_Guide_with_IPC.pdf>


Doug Smith
 

Mohammad,

In the PDF discussing the troubleshooting I did, I discussed all the US based suppliers for the different things purchased. I used IMTRA for the IPC relay, and received it within a couple of days, shipped inside the US.  I just checked and didn’t see a Mediterranean based distributer, but If you figure out that this is the item, I can assist with ordering local and getting it over to you.

As for other parts, the micro switches would be the item I think you might want to have on hand. The details for ordering them are also based on getting them from US. I believe they are actually European, so you might have better luck on those. Spare lip seals are needed for the routine maintenance. 22*40*7, you need 2 for the propellesr, and then the 60*80*12 is needed for the drive leg going down through the bottom of the hull. Everything else seemed pretty available from routine sources.

 

Doug Smith

S/V Aventura, Amel 54-113

White Point Marina, Kinsale VA USA

 

From: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...>
Reply-To: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Date: Monday, June 14, 2021 at 2:18 PM
To: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion

 

Thanks doug fir the quick reply. I’ll try it out and see what I can find. Where did you buy the relay from? Are there other spare parts that yiu found is good to carry on board?

 

Respectfully;

 

 

Mohammad Shirloo

+1-323-633-2222 Cell

+1-424-644-0908 Fax


From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Doug Smith via groups.io <dugsmith98@...>
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2021 7:07:53 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion

 

Mohammad, I went through a similar issue last year with mine.  It ended up being the IPC relay, which I was able to diagnose using the SP_troubleshooting guide.  I also showed the steps used in my details of bow thruster details PDF.  It is picture 11,page 7.  You will use a jumper wire on the solenoid, to see where the problem is.

 

Doug Smith

S/V Aventura, Amel 54-113

White Point Marina, Kinsale VA USA

 

From: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...>
Reply-To: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Date: Monday, June 14, 2021 at 12:21 PM
To: "Amel group new .iso" <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion

 

Our bow thruster stopped working on one direction. While pulling out the manuals, I would appreciate any information regarding the potential source. 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo 

A54 #099


 

It could be the joystick, but most of the time it is one of the control solenoids or a bad connection to these solenoids.
image.png
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 1:19 PM Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...> wrote:
Thanks DIMITRIS. We get no sound , but I’ll check. 

Respectfully;


Mohammad Shirloo
+1-323-633-2222 Cell
+1-424-644-0908 Fax

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Dimitris Krasopoulos via groups.io <dkrasopoulos=gmail.com@groups.io>
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2021 7:00:25 PM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion
 
Possible the propeller pin is sheared have a check diving if the propeller can be rotated by hand

Στάλθηκε από το iPhone of Dimitris Krasopoulos 

On Jun 14, 2021, at 7:21 PM, Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...> wrote:


Our bow thruster stopped working on one direction. While pulling out the manuals, I would appreciate any information regarding the potential source. 

Mohammad and Aty
B&B Kokomo 
A54 #099


 

Here is the guide:
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 4:32 PM Doug Smith via groups.io <dugsmith98=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Mohammad,

In the PDF discussing the troubleshooting I did, I discussed all the US based suppliers for the different things purchased. I used IMTRA for the IPC relay, and received it within a couple of days, shipped inside the US.  I just checked and didn’t see a Mediterranean based distributer, but If you figure out that this is the item, I can assist with ordering local and getting it over to you.

As for other parts, the micro switches would be the item I think you might want to have on hand. The details for ordering them are also based on getting them from US. I believe they are actually European, so you might have better luck on those. Spare lip seals are needed for the routine maintenance. 22*40*7, you need 2 for the propellesr, and then the 60*80*12 is needed for the drive leg going down through the bottom of the hull. Everything else seemed pretty available from routine sources.

 

Doug Smith

S/V Aventura, Amel 54-113

White Point Marina, Kinsale VA USA

 

From: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...>
Reply-To: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Date: Monday, June 14, 2021 at 2:18 PM
To: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion

 

Thanks doug fir the quick reply. I’ll try it out and see what I can find. Where did you buy the relay from? Are there other spare parts that yiu found is good to carry on board?

 

Respectfully;

 

 

Mohammad Shirloo

+1-323-633-2222 Cell

+1-424-644-0908 Fax


From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Doug Smith via groups.io <dugsmith98=yahoo.com@groups.io>
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2021 7:07:53 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion

 

Mohammad, I went through a similar issue last year with mine.  It ended up being the IPC relay, which I was able to diagnose using the SP_troubleshooting guide.  I also showed the steps used in my details of bow thruster details PDF.  It is picture 11,page 7.  You will use a jumper wire on the solenoid, to see where the problem is.

 

Doug Smith

S/V Aventura, Amel 54-113

White Point Marina, Kinsale VA USA

 

From: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...>
Reply-To: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Date: Monday, June 14, 2021 at 12:21 PM
To: "Amel group new .iso" <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion

 

Our bow thruster stopped working on one direction. While pulling out the manuals, I would appreciate any information regarding the potential source. 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo 

A54 #099


Lior Keydar
 

Hi Mohammad

I had the same problem two times. Every time, it was the solenoid on the bow thruster that did not work anymore.
If the batteries are weak and you use the bow thruster without starting the generator and charger, it can burn the solenoid. 
Every time it happened, the bow thruster worked only in one direction.

http://side-power.info/public/templates/list.php?file=../imgs/ftp_pub/MANUALS/Thrusters/SP%20Series%20(Discontinued)/IP/SP155TCi_IP.pdf&action=dl
page 19, part number 27

I hope it helps

Best
Lior A54 #18




Mohammad Shirloo
 

Thank you Lior, good to know. We, in general, have the generator and 100A charger on, when expecting anything other than minimal bow thruster usage, or the battery charge level is low.

Respectfully;


Mohammad Shirloo
+1-323-633-2222 Cell
+1-424-644-0908 Fax


From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Lior Keydar via groups.io <lior246@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2021 8:53:05 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion
 
Hi Mohammad

I had the same problem two times. Every time, it was the solenoid on the bow thruster that did not work anymore.
If the batteries are weak and you use the bow thruster without starting the generator and charger, it can burn the solenoid. 
Every time it happened, the bow thruster worked only in one direction.

http://side-power.info/public/templates/list.php?file=../imgs/ftp_pub/MANUALS/Thrusters/SP%20Series%20(Discontinued)/IP/SP155TCi_IP.pdf&action=dl
page 19, part number 27

I hope it helps

Best
Lior A54 #18




Dimitris Krasopoulos
 

There are very different views if it is good to run the generator and battery charger when using the Bowthruster despite the recommendation of AMEL. Perhaps Bill Rouse or other experienced sailors have to comment on that. If the batteries are well charged by the alternator of the engine and they are not very old I need a second opinion on that issue.

Στάλθηκε από το iPhone of Dimitris Krasopoulos 

On Jun 16, 2021, at 12:24 PM, Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...> wrote:


Thank you Lior, good to know. We, in general, have the generator and 100A charger on, when expecting anything other than minimal bow thruster usage, or the battery charge level is low.

Respectfully;


Mohammad Shirloo
+1-323-633-2222 Cell
+1-424-644-0908 Fax

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Lior Keydar via groups.io <lior246@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2021 8:53:05 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion
 
Hi Mohammad

I had the same problem two times. Every time, it was the solenoid on the bow thruster that did not work anymore.
If the batteries are weak and you use the bow thruster without starting the generator and charger, it can burn the solenoid. 
Every time it happened, the bow thruster worked only in one direction.

http://side-power.info/public/templates/list.php?file=../imgs/ftp_pub/MANUALS/Thrusters/SP%20Series%20(Discontinued)/IP/SP155TCi_IP.pdf&action=dl
page 19, part number 27

I hope it helps

Best
Lior A54 #18




Mohammad Shirloo
 

Hi Dimitri;

I think the comcept of operating the bow thruster with the charger on, makes sense to me. The charger simply helps to keep the voltage to the bow thruster as high as the boat is capable, so the current draw by the bow thruster is minimized, again as much as possible, with everything our boats have at their disposal. Since the power required to run the bow thruster is a function of Voltage (V) x Current (I), the higher the voltage, the lower the current requirement.

Higher currents create higher temperatures and therefore lead to shorter usage time of the bow thruster before the temperature sensor shuts off the bow thruster. It is also less stress on all other functioning parts that have to channel the current to the bow thruster motor, including the motor itself.

Respectfully;


Mohammad Shirloo
+1-323-633-2222 Cell
+1-424-644-0908 Fax


From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Dimitris Krasopoulos via groups.io <dkrasopoulos@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2021 11:59:49 AM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion
 
There are very different views if it is good to run the generator and battery charger when using the Bowthruster despite the recommendation of AMEL. Perhaps Bill Rouse or other experienced sailors have to comment on that. If the batteries are well charged by the alternator of the engine and they are not very old I need a second opinion on that issue.

Στάλθηκε από το iPhone of Dimitris Krasopoulos 

On Jun 16, 2021, at 12:24 PM, Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...> wrote:


Thank you Lior, good to know. We, in general, have the generator and 100A charger on, when expecting anything other than minimal bow thruster usage, or the battery charge level is low.

Respectfully;


Mohammad Shirloo
+1-323-633-2222 Cell
+1-424-644-0908 Fax

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Lior Keydar via groups.io <lior246@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2021 8:53:05 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion
 
Hi Mohammad

I had the same problem two times. Every time, it was the solenoid on the bow thruster that did not work anymore.
If the batteries are weak and you use the bow thruster without starting the generator and charger, it can burn the solenoid. 
Every time it happened, the bow thruster worked only in one direction.

http://side-power.info/public/templates/list.php?file=../imgs/ftp_pub/MANUALS/Thrusters/SP%20Series%20(Discontinued)/IP/SP155TCi_IP.pdf&action=dl
page 19, part number 27

I hope it helps

Best
Lior A54 #18




Dimitris Krasopoulos
 

I agree on the temperature current problem but this is important in difficult anchorages with strong side wind in normal anchoring is it justified? To know I have installed one Onan starter button in the cockpit as it is not convenient to go down to start the generator ….

Στάλθηκε από το iPhone of Dimitris Krasopoulos 

On Jun 16, 2021, at 1:30 PM, Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...> wrote:


Hi Dimitri;

I think the comcept of operating the bow thruster with the charger on, makes sense to me. The charger simply helps to keep the voltage to the bow thruster as high as the boat is capable, so the current draw by the bow thruster is minimized, again as much as possible, with everything our boats have at their disposal. Since the power required to run the bow thruster is a function of Voltage (V) x Current (I), the higher the voltage, the lower the current requirement.

Higher currents create higher temperatures and therefore lead to shorter usage time of the bow thruster before the temperature sensor shuts off the bow thruster. It is also less stress on all other functioning parts that have to channel the current to the bow thruster motor, including the motor itself.

Respectfully;


Mohammad Shirloo
+1-323-633-2222 Cell
+1-424-644-0908 Fax

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Dimitris Krasopoulos via groups.io <dkrasopoulos@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2021 11:59:49 AM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion
 
There are very different views if it is good to run the generator and battery charger when using the Bowthruster despite the recommendation of AMEL. Perhaps Bill Rouse or other experienced sailors have to comment on that. If the batteries are well charged by the alternator of the engine and they are not very old I need a second opinion on that issue.

Στάλθηκε από το iPhone of Dimitris Krasopoulos 

On Jun 16, 2021, at 12:24 PM, Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...> wrote:


Thank you Lior, good to know. We, in general, have the generator and 100A charger on, when expecting anything other than minimal bow thruster usage, or the battery charge level is low.

Respectfully;


Mohammad Shirloo
+1-323-633-2222 Cell
+1-424-644-0908 Fax

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Lior Keydar via groups.io <lior246@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2021 8:53:05 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion
 
Hi Mohammad

I had the same problem two times. Every time, it was the solenoid on the bow thruster that did not work anymore.
If the batteries are weak and you use the bow thruster without starting the generator and charger, it can burn the solenoid. 
Every time it happened, the bow thruster worked only in one direction.

http://side-power.info/public/templates/list.php?file=../imgs/ftp_pub/MANUALS/Thrusters/SP%20Series%20(Discontinued)/IP/SP155TCi_IP.pdf&action=dl
page 19, part number 27

I hope it helps

Best
Lior A54 #18




Mohammad Shirloo
 

I agree that the action of turning on the generator and charger becomes excessive at some point. I think it is just a level of personal comfort, as to how much we are each willing to do, to avoid a potential problem. As for us, we do not turn in the generator if a few short bursts may be expected in an open anchorage.

Respectfully;


Mohammad Shirloo
+1-323-633-2222 Cell
+1-424-644-0908 Fax


From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Dimitris Krasopoulos via groups.io <dkrasopoulos@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2021 12:42:18 PM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion
 
I agree on the temperature current problem but this is important in difficult anchorages with strong side wind in normal anchoring is it justified? To know I have installed one Onan starter button in the cockpit as it is not convenient to go down to start the generator ….

Στάλθηκε από το iPhone of Dimitris Krasopoulos 

On Jun 16, 2021, at 1:30 PM, Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...> wrote:


Hi Dimitri;

I think the comcept of operating the bow thruster with the charger on, makes sense to me. The charger simply helps to keep the voltage to the bow thruster as high as the boat is capable, so the current draw by the bow thruster is minimized, again as much as possible, with everything our boats have at their disposal. Since the power required to run the bow thruster is a function of Voltage (V) x Current (I), the higher the voltage, the lower the current requirement.

Higher currents create higher temperatures and therefore lead to shorter usage time of the bow thruster before the temperature sensor shuts off the bow thruster. It is also less stress on all other functioning parts that have to channel the current to the bow thruster motor, including the motor itself.

Respectfully;


Mohammad Shirloo
+1-323-633-2222 Cell
+1-424-644-0908 Fax

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Dimitris Krasopoulos via groups.io <dkrasopoulos@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2021 11:59:49 AM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion
 
There are very different views if it is good to run the generator and battery charger when using the Bowthruster despite the recommendation of AMEL. Perhaps Bill Rouse or other experienced sailors have to comment on that. If the batteries are well charged by the alternator of the engine and they are not very old I need a second opinion on that issue.

Στάλθηκε από το iPhone of Dimitris Krasopoulos 

On Jun 16, 2021, at 12:24 PM, Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...> wrote:


Thank you Lior, good to know. We, in general, have the generator and 100A charger on, when expecting anything other than minimal bow thruster usage, or the battery charge level is low.

Respectfully;


Mohammad Shirloo
+1-323-633-2222 Cell
+1-424-644-0908 Fax

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Lior Keydar via groups.io <lior246@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2021 8:53:05 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion
 
Hi Mohammad

I had the same problem two times. Every time, it was the solenoid on the bow thruster that did not work anymore.
If the batteries are weak and you use the bow thruster without starting the generator and charger, it can burn the solenoid. 
Every time it happened, the bow thruster worked only in one direction.

http://side-power.info/public/templates/list.php?file=../imgs/ftp_pub/MANUALS/Thrusters/SP%20Series%20(Discontinued)/IP/SP155TCi_IP.pdf&action=dl
page 19, part number 27

I hope it helps

Best
Lior A54 #18




Ulrich Michael Dangelmeyer
 

Hi all,

just my small contribution to this topic:
Last year in spring our 54 was operated in the marina by the mechanics (without us by Covid) from the pontoon box to the travelift.The engine was used only briefly for propulsion, most maneuvers were apparently controlled with the bow stare, is also much easier and more efficient...Without generator. And back again to another place. 
Master Volvo was used only briefly for propulsion, most maneuvers were apparently controlled with the bow thruster, is also much easier and more efficient...Without generator and alternator. With battery power alone!
When we boarded in the fall all batteries were completely destroyed: < 7V per battery. No light no pump, nothing. The boat was dead.
the electrician kept a low profile and just said "bye bye". Since our batteries were otherwise always at 26.8 V when we came back after months. No proof, but 12 new Victron AGM for 4000 € were expensive port maneuvers. Never again without our company on board.

Ulrich Michael
„Soleil Bleu“ A54#088
<>

I agree that the action of turning on the generator and charger becomes excessive at some point. I think it is just a level of personal comfort, as to how much we are each willing to do, to avoid a potential problem. As for us, we do not turn in the generator if a few short bursts may be expected in an open anchorage.

Respectfully;


Mohammad Shirloo
+1-323-633-2222 Cell
+1-424-644-0908 Fax

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Dimitris Krasopoulos via groups.io <dkrasopoulos@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2021 12:42:18 PM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion
 
I agree on the temperature current problem but this is important in difficult anchorages with strong side wind in normal anchoring is it justified? To know I have installed one Onan starter button in the cockpit as it is not convenient to go down to start the generator ….

Στάλθηκε από το iPhone of Dimitris Krasopoulos 

On Jun 16, 2021, at 1:30 PM, Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...> wrote:


Hi Dimitri;

I think the comcept of operating the bow thruster with the charger on, makes sense to me. The charger simply helps to keep the voltage to the bow thruster as high as the boat is capable, so the current draw by the bow thruster is minimized, again as much as possible, with everything our boats have at their disposal. Since the power required to run the bow thruster is a function of Voltage (V) x Current (I), the higher the voltage, the lower the current requirement.

Higher currents create higher temperatures and therefore lead to shorter usage time of the bow thruster before the temperature sensor shuts off the bow thruster. It is also less stress on all other functioning parts that have to channel the current to the bow thruster motor, including the motor itself.

Respectfully;


Mohammad Shirloo
+1-323-633-2222 Cell
+1-424-644-0908 Fax

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Dimitris Krasopoulos via groups.io <dkrasopoulos@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2021 11:59:49 AM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion
 
There are very different views if it is good to run the generator and battery charger when using the Bowthruster despite the recommendation of AMEL. Perhaps Bill Rouse or other experienced sailors have to comment on that. If the batteries are well charged by the alternator of the engine and they are not very old I need a second opinion on that issue.

Στάλθηκε από το iPhone of Dimitris Krasopoulos 

On Jun 16, 2021, at 12:24 PM, Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...> wrote:


Thank you Lior, good to know. We, in general, have the generator and 100A charger on, when expecting anything other than minimal bow thruster usage, or the battery charge level is low.

Respectfully;


Mohammad Shirloo
+1-323-633-2222 Cell
+1-424-644-0908 Fax

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Lior Keydar via groups.io <lior246@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2021 8:53:05 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion
 
Hi Mohammad

I had the same problem two times. Every time, it was the solenoid on the bow thruster that did not work anymore.
If the batteries are weak and you use the bow thruster without starting the generator and charger, it can burn the solenoid. 
Every time it happened, the bow thruster worked only in one direction.

http://side-power.info/public/templates/list.php?file=../imgs/ftp_pub/MANUALS/Thrusters/SP%20Series%20(Discontinued)/IP/SP155TCi_IP.pdf&action=dl
page 19, part number 27

I hope it helps

Best
Lior A54 #18





Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Dimitris,

In 12 years I have never run the gen set when using the bow thruster. However I always use it in short bursts of two or three seconds. Occasionally in stress situations that might go out to 10. Seamanship comes in to it.

If you use it in long runs it becomes a different issue. Of course because bow thruster use is almost always when maneuvering for docking and in and out of marinas the main engine is going so its 24 volt alternator is running. Mine is only a 75amp and the motor is usually running at low revs so not at peak output. I have lead acid batteries for my house bank.

I would express an opinion that using the headsail furler under load, which I often do without the motor running, would draw more than the bow thruster. I have not measured that or calculated that though. However since that use would almost always when sailing in stronger winds ahead of the beam my Super Wind 350 generator would be pumping.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 16 June 2021 at 21:59 Dimitris Krasopoulos <dkrasopoulos@...> wrote:

There are very different views if it is good to run the generator and battery charger when using the Bowthruster despite the recommendation of AMEL. Perhaps Bill Rouse or other experienced sailors have to comment on that. If the batteries are well charged by the alternator of the engine and they are not very old I need a second opinion on that issue.

Στάλθηκε από το iPhone of Dimitris Krasopoulos 

On Jun 16, 2021, at 12:24 PM, Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...> wrote:

Thank you Lior, good to know. We, in general, have the generator and 100A charger on, when expecting anything other than minimal bow thruster usage, or the battery charge level is low.

Respectfully;


Mohammad Shirloo
+1-323-633-2222 Cell
+1-424-644-0908 Fax

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Lior Keydar via groups.io <lior246@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2021 8:53:05 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow thruster does not work in one direvtion
 
Hi Mohammad

I had the same problem two times. Every time, it was the solenoid on the bow thruster that did not work anymore.
If the batteries are weak and you use the bow thruster without starting the generator and charger, it can burn the solenoid. 
Every time it happened, the bow thruster worked only in one direction.

http://side-power.info/public/templates/list.php?file=../imgs/ftp_pub/MANUALS/Thrusters/SP%20Series%20(Discontinued)/IP/SP155TCi_IP.pdf&action=dl
page 19, part number 27

I hope it helps

Best
Lior A54 #18




 


 


Ken Powers SV Aquarius <ken@...>
 

I have done the measurements.  My bow thruster takes 480 Amps.  It seems there are some misunderstandings with most Alternator systems installed on the main engines, and the amount of current you will get out of your GenSet.

1. Your GenSet is usually a 6.5KW Onan, or maybe you have a bigger one, but this has nothing to do with the current supplied to the 24V system.  The current supplied to the 24V system is only a factor of the battery charger/s on board.  If you only have a 60A battery charger, you will only get 60A into your 24V battery system while running your 6.5KW Onan.

2. I don't know about you, but when I am backing into a "Parking Spot",  and I engage the bow thruster, the engine is usually at idle. "Most" alternators, on an engine at idle, don't produce much current.  If you have a 100Amp Alternator, you may get 25Amps at idle, but probably more like 15Amps at Idle.  There might be alternators that provides max current at lower RPM's, but would you want this?  

3.  Rated power output of the Super Wind 350 generator is 350Watts, which is about 12 to 13Amps into a 24V battery system.  

4.  I believe the rated power for the main outhaul and furling motors is less than 1500W.  This is less than a 60A load.  There is no comparison to the amount of current the bow thruster consumes.

So, if you have Lead Acid Batteries, and lets say your capacity is 300AmpHours...  If you use the bow thruster with no alternator, and no battery chargers, it will be over 1C, which is not so good for the batteries.  If you turn on your Genset, and your 100A charger, you are still over 1C.  And if you also have an alternator that is adding 50Amps, you are still over 1C.  

Good reason to get LiFePO4.  These issues go away.

Ken Powers
Aquarius
SM2K#262


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Ken, I guess this was to me since you refer to my Super Wind 350. I pretty well agree with all you said though the only thing I might question is the need for life po batteries but that is a matter of choice.

As I said I have not measured the current draw but when I am tight reaching in 30 Knots and I roll in part of my headsail under load there is a big power draw. However all that is irrelevant. I just provided the information as an observation.

The important information is 12 years, 8 years + life out of my lead acid batteries and never running the gen set for the bow thruster. I agree with you that with a motor at idle or near idle the output of any alternator would be minimal.

Of course it is important to note the fact that, except in an emergency being swept sideways where you do not want to go, I limit my BT use to short multiple bursts. If a user puts in into use and leaves in there for long runs the situation is totally different.

Kind Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 17 June 2021 at 11:12 Ken Powers SV Aquarius <ken@...> wrote:

I have done the measurements.  My bow thruster takes 480 Amps.  It seems there are some misunderstandings with most Alternator systems installed on the main engines, and the amount of current you will get out of your GenSet.

1. Your GenSet is usually a 6.5KW Onan, or maybe you have a bigger one, but this has nothing to do with the current supplied to the 24V system.  The current supplied to the 24V system is only a factor of the battery charger/s on board.  If you only have a 60A battery charger, you will only get 60A into your 24V battery system while running your 6.5KW Onan.

2. I don't know about you, but when I am backing into a "Parking Spot",  and I engage the bow thruster, the engine is usually at idle. "Most" alternators, on an engine at idle, don't produce much current.  If you have a 100Amp Alternator, you may get 25Amps at idle, but probably more like 15Amps at Idle.  There might be alternators that provides max current at lower RPM's, but would you want this?  

3.  Rated power output of the Super Wind 350 generator is 350Watts, which is about 12 to 13Amps into a 24V battery system.  

4.  I believe the rated power for the main outhaul and furling motors is less than 1500W.  This is less than a 60A load.  There is no comparison to the amount of current the bow thruster consumes.

So, if you have Lead Acid Batteries, and lets say your capacity is 300AmpHours...  If you use the bow thruster with no alternator, and no battery chargers, it will be over 1C, which is not so good for the batteries.  If you turn on your Genset, and your 100A charger, you are still over 1C.  And if you also have an alternator that is adding 50Amps, you are still over 1C.  

Good reason to get LiFePO4.  These issues go away.

Ken Powers
Aquarius
SM2K#262