bow thruster woes


David Dickman
 

Hi All,
   I am having an issue with the bow thruster on my A54.  I believe it is either the Sleipner SP 200 or SP240, the identification tag is hidden on the back of the motor next to the bulkhead and lift drive so I can't see it.  

At any rate, the lift motor works fine, but the thruster driving the propellers has stopped.  It worked fine, then was intermittent one day, then stopped altogether.

Here is what I have done:
Replaced:
4 bow thruster relays (UP/down)
IPC switch 6-1232-i
IPC switch wiring harness
reversed up/down proximity sensors and wiring to check if they work (they do)
removed and cleaned solenoid and all contacts inside.
checked power switch at helm -gets 26v
checked thruster momentary toggle at helm (26v - 0, depending upon port/starboard direction - working)
replaced emergency cutoff switch (working)
checked main power fuse to 24v supply attached to emergency cut off switch (good, 0ohm)
checked 10A fuse in relay box (good, 0ohm)
Up/Down ball screw motor on thruster works both directions reliably, sound indicator works, raise and lower stop function works.

Now, however, I only get 6v at the power control harness on the bow thruster between the red and black wires.  In my reading of the circuit diagrams, this should be 24v.  I don't know where this voltage is produced - is it inside the motor itself?
The neg/positive (A1 and Pos post on motor read 26v between them).

Anybody have ideas where to look for the small supply voltage of only 6V?  

Related question, can I take off the motor while the boat is in the water.  Looks like I can.  The shaft down to the propellers is attached by an aluminuml L plate to the up/down ball screw lift motor and when locked in place with the safety pin, it should not move.  that should allow one to remove just the motor head.

Advice?

thanks,
     David


Louis Trepanier
 

Hello David,

I also had problems with the bow thruster on my A 54 caused by defective solenoid, controls and by the motor itself.

Since you have not yet checked the motor itself, a.good cleaning (maybe refurbishing) and replacement of the brushes will probably solve your problem. 

Good luck,

Louis SV Amelia II


On Oct 23, 2022, at 4:47 AM, David Dickman <jdd91656@...> wrote:

Hi All,
   I am having an issue with the bow thruster on my A54.  I believe it is either the Sleipner SP 200 or SP240, the identification tag is hidden on the back of the motor next to the bulkhead and lift drive so I can't see it.  

At any rate, the lift motor works fine, but the thruster driving the propellers has stopped.  It worked fine, then was intermittent one day, then stopped altogether.

Here is what I have done:
Replaced:
4 bow thruster relays (UP/down)
IPC switch 6-1232-i
IPC switch wiring harness
reversed up/down proximity sensors and wiring to check if they work (they do)
removed and cleaned solenoid and all contacts inside.
checked power switch at helm -gets 26v
checked thruster momentary toggle at helm (26v - 0, depending upon port/starboard direction - working)
replaced emergency cutoff switch (working)
checked main power fuse to 24v supply attached to emergency cut off switch (good, 0ohm)
checked 10A fuse in relay box (good, 0ohm)
Up/Down ball screw motor on thruster works both directions reliably, sound indicator works, raise and lower stop function works.

Now, however, I only get 6v at the power control harness on the bow thruster between the red and black wires.  In my reading of the circuit diagrams, this should be 24v.  I don't know where this voltage is produced - is it inside the motor itself?
The neg/positive (A1 and Pos post on motor read 26v between them).

Anybody have ideas where to look for the small supply voltage of only 6V?  

Related question, can I take off the motor while the boat is in the water.  Looks like I can.  The shaft down to the propellers is attached by an aluminuml L plate to the up/down ball screw lift motor and when locked in place with the safety pin, it should not move.  that should allow one to remove just the motor head.

Advice?

thanks,
     David


Roque
 

David

What is the hull number?

You wrote: “ In my reading of the circuit diagrams, this should be 24v.”

Which circuit diagram are you referring to? If you mean the Sleipner owners manual, Amel did not follow it. Neither color code nor wiring. 

Roque
Attika A54 117
Paraty Brazil 

Em sáb., 22 de out. de 2022 às 22:47, David Dickman <jdd91656@...> escreveu:

Hi All,
   I am having an issue with the bow thruster on my A54.  I believe it is either the Sleipner SP 200 or SP240, the identification tag is hidden on the back of the motor next to the bulkhead and lift drive so I can't see it.  

At any rate, the lift motor works fine, but the thruster driving the propellers has stopped.  It worked fine, then was intermittent one day, then stopped altogether.

Here is what I have done:
Replaced:
4 bow thruster relays (UP/down)
IPC switch 6-1232-i
IPC switch wiring harness
reversed up/down proximity sensors and wiring to check if they work (they do)
removed and cleaned solenoid and all contacts inside.
checked power switch at helm -gets 26v
checked thruster momentary toggle at helm (26v - 0, depending upon port/starboard direction - working)
replaced emergency cutoff switch (working)
checked main power fuse to 24v supply attached to emergency cut off switch (good, 0ohm)
checked 10A fuse in relay box (good, 0ohm)
Up/Down ball screw motor on thruster works both directions reliably, sound indicator works, raise and lower stop function works.

Now, however, I only get 6v at the power control harness on the bow thruster between the red and black wires.  In my reading of the circuit diagrams, this should be 24v.  I don't know where this voltage is produced - is it inside the motor itself?
The neg/positive (A1 and Pos post on motor read 26v between them).

Anybody have ideas where to look for the small supply voltage of only 6V?  

Related question, can I take off the motor while the boat is in the water.  Looks like I can.  The shaft down to the propellers is attached by an aluminuml L plate to the up/down ball screw lift motor and when locked in place with the safety pin, it should not move.  that should allow one to remove just the motor head.

Advice?

thanks,
     David


--
Roque
Attika A54 117
Paraty - Brazil 


David Dickman
 

Hi rogue, Galini, A54 100. Circuit diagrams from bill rouses amel book and supplements

On Sat, Oct 22, 2022 at 9:38 PM Roque <ediroque@...> wrote:
David

What is the hull number?

You wrote: “ In my reading of the circuit diagrams, this should be 24v.”

Which circuit diagram are you referring to? If you mean the Sleipner owners manual, Amel did not follow it. Neither color code nor wiring. 

Roque
Attika A54 117
Paraty Brazil 

Em sáb., 22 de out. de 2022 às 22:47, David Dickman <jdd91656@...> escreveu:
Hi All,
   I am having an issue with the bow thruster on my A54.  I believe it is either the Sleipner SP 200 or SP240, the identification tag is hidden on the back of the motor next to the bulkhead and lift drive so I can't see it.  

At any rate, the lift motor works fine, but the thruster driving the propellers has stopped.  It worked fine, then was intermittent one day, then stopped altogether.

Here is what I have done:
Replaced:
4 bow thruster relays (UP/down)
IPC switch 6-1232-i
IPC switch wiring harness
reversed up/down proximity sensors and wiring to check if they work (they do)
removed and cleaned solenoid and all contacts inside.
checked power switch at helm -gets 26v
checked thruster momentary toggle at helm (26v - 0, depending upon port/starboard direction - working)
replaced emergency cutoff switch (working)
checked main power fuse to 24v supply attached to emergency cut off switch (good, 0ohm)
checked 10A fuse in relay box (good, 0ohm)
Up/Down ball screw motor on thruster works both directions reliably, sound indicator works, raise and lower stop function works.

Now, however, I only get 6v at the power control harness on the bow thruster between the red and black wires.  In my reading of the circuit diagrams, this should be 24v.  I don't know where this voltage is produced - is it inside the motor itself?
The neg/positive (A1 and Pos post on motor read 26v between them).

Anybody have ideas where to look for the small supply voltage of only 6V?  

Related question, can I take off the motor while the boat is in the water.  Looks like I can.  The shaft down to the propellers is attached by an aluminuml L plate to the up/down ball screw lift motor and when locked in place with the safety pin, it should not move.  that should allow one to remove just the motor head.

Advice?

thanks,
     David


--
Roque
Attika A54 117
Paraty - Brazil 


David Dickman
 

Hi Louis, will have a look at brushes next.

Thanks

On Sat, Oct 22, 2022 at 9:22 PM Louis Trepanier <louis.alepa@...> wrote:
Hello David,

I also had problems with the bow thruster on my A 54 caused by defective solenoid, controls and by the motor itself.

Since you have not yet checked the motor itself, a.good cleaning (maybe refurbishing) and replacement of the brushes will probably solve your problem. 

Good luck,

Louis SV Amelia II


On Oct 23, 2022, at 4:47 AM, David Dickman <jdd91656@...> wrote:

Hi All,
   I am having an issue with the bow thruster on my A54.  I believe it is either the Sleipner SP 200 or SP240, the identification tag is hidden on the back of the motor next to the bulkhead and lift drive so I can't see it.  

At any rate, the lift motor works fine, but the thruster driving the propellers has stopped.  It worked fine, then was intermittent one day, then stopped altogether.

Here is what I have done:
Replaced:
4 bow thruster relays (UP/down)
IPC switch 6-1232-i
IPC switch wiring harness
reversed up/down proximity sensors and wiring to check if they work (they do)
removed and cleaned solenoid and all contacts inside.
checked power switch at helm -gets 26v
checked thruster momentary toggle at helm (26v - 0, depending upon port/starboard direction - working)
replaced emergency cutoff switch (working)
checked main power fuse to 24v supply attached to emergency cut off switch (good, 0ohm)
checked 10A fuse in relay box (good, 0ohm)
Up/Down ball screw motor on thruster works both directions reliably, sound indicator works, raise and lower stop function works.

Now, however, I only get 6v at the power control harness on the bow thruster between the red and black wires.  In my reading of the circuit diagrams, this should be 24v.  I don't know where this voltage is produced - is it inside the motor itself?
The neg/positive (A1 and Pos post on motor read 26v between them).

Anybody have ideas where to look for the small supply voltage of only 6V?  

Related question, can I take off the motor while the boat is in the water.  Looks like I can.  The shaft down to the propellers is attached by an aluminuml L plate to the up/down ball screw lift motor and when locked in place with the safety pin, it should not move.  that should allow one to remove just the motor head.

Advice?

thanks,
     David


Doug Smith
 

David, 
You can disconnect the motor from the rest of the bow thruster by lifting straight up after disconnecting the Allen bolts. There is a coupler that has smaller Allen bolts holding it to the drive shaft that needs to be loosened as well. It is heavy but not too much for one person to lift. 
Your troubleshooting is quite thorough. There is no supply voltage for this device that is 6 volts. 
If that is what you are reading then it suggests a faulty connection. 
Turn off all power and press your emergency stop switch so it is not providing power to the thruster.  The motor should be free to spin with a screwdriver pushing on the fins on top of the motor with just some resistance that is consistent with turning the gears and the propeller. If it is, then check the ohms across your motor leads. Then check to see if you have 24 VDC at the emergency stop switch. That is the same voltage reading you should have coming out of the solenoid going to the motor. Any drop offs suggest a bad connection. 
Reenergize to check voltages at the motor. If the motor goes bad it would likely have a strong burnt smell. Not likely by my thoughts without seeing things but I think if the motor failed you would know. 
Reading your details, and looking through the troubleshooting guid they discuss using a jumper wire to test the motor and the solenoid.  This is worth doing if you haven’t as it bypasses the IPC circuit. 
I had a solenoid that failed and I cleaned all the contacts and it worked outside the circuit. But when I reinstalled it, it would not work. It turns out that the side male connectors, which is where the control circuit triggers the solenoid, had bad solder connections to the male connector. Now I have a backup solenoid. 
image0.jpeg

Thanks, Doug Smith

Amel 54-113, Aventura
Deltaville VA, USA
Dugsmith98@...

On Oct 22, 2022, at 10:38 PM, Roque <ediroque@...> wrote:


David

What is the hull number?

You wrote: “ In my reading of the circuit diagrams, this should be 24v.”

Which circuit diagram are you referring to? If you mean the Sleipner owners manual, Amel did not follow it. Neither color code nor wiring. 

Roque
Attika A54 117
Paraty Brazil 

Em sáb., 22 de out. de 2022 às 22:47, David Dickman <jdd91656@...> escreveu:
Hi All,
   I am having an issue with the bow thruster on my A54.  I believe it is either the Sleipner SP 200 or SP240, the identification tag is hidden on the back of the motor next to the bulkhead and lift drive so I can't see it.  

At any rate, the lift motor works fine, but the thruster driving the propellers has stopped.  It worked fine, then was intermittent one day, then stopped altogether.

Here is what I have done:
Replaced:
4 bow thruster relays (UP/down)
IPC switch 6-1232-i
IPC switch wiring harness
reversed up/down proximity sensors and wiring to check if they work (they do)
removed and cleaned solenoid and all contacts inside.
checked power switch at helm -gets 26v
checked thruster momentary toggle at helm (26v - 0, depending upon port/starboard direction - working)
replaced emergency cutoff switch (working)
checked main power fuse to 24v supply attached to emergency cut off switch (good, 0ohm)
checked 10A fuse in relay box (good, 0ohm)
Up/Down ball screw motor on thruster works both directions reliably, sound indicator works, raise and lower stop function works.

Now, however, I only get 6v at the power control harness on the bow thruster between the red and black wires.  In my reading of the circuit diagrams, this should be 24v.  I don't know where this voltage is produced - is it inside the motor itself?
The neg/positive (A1 and Pos post on motor read 26v between them).

Anybody have ideas where to look for the small supply voltage of only 6V?  

Related question, can I take off the motor while the boat is in the water.  Looks like I can.  The shaft down to the propellers is attached by an aluminuml L plate to the up/down ball screw lift motor and when locked in place with the safety pin, it should not move.  that should allow one to remove just the motor head.

Advice?

thanks,
     David


--
Roque
Attika A54 117
Paraty - Brazil 


Nick Newington
 

I suggest you check the brushes and make sure there is no carbon build up without removing the motor. 

You can even polish up the commutator in situ by spinning the motor with an electric drill and getting fine sand paper on it.

Thoroughly clean it all, but there are so many possible causes, at least it is a good thing to do anyway.
Nick
Amelia 
AML54-019
Turkey


On 23 Oct 2022, at 06:03, Doug Smith via groups.io <dugsmith98@...> wrote:

David, 
You can disconnect the motor from the rest of the bow thruster by lifting straight up after disconnecting the Allen bolts. There is a coupler that has smaller Allen bolts holding it to the drive shaft that needs to be loosened as well. It is heavy but not too much for one person to lift. 
Your troubleshooting is quite thorough. There is no supply voltage for this device that is 6 volts. 
If that is what you are reading then it suggests a faulty connection. 
Turn off all power and press your emergency stop switch so it is not providing power to the thruster.  The motor should be free to spin with a screwdriver pushing on the fins on top of the motor with just some resistance that is consistent with turning the gears and the propeller. If it is, then check the ohms across your motor leads. Then check to see if you have 24 VDC at the emergency stop switch. That is the same voltage reading you should have coming out of the solenoid going to the motor. Any drop offs suggest a bad connection. 
Reenergize to check voltages at the motor. If the motor goes bad it would likely have a strong burnt smell. Not likely by my thoughts without seeing things but I think if the motor failed you would know. 
Reading your details, and looking through the troubleshooting guid they discuss using a jumper wire to test the motor and the solenoid.  This is worth doing if you haven’t as it bypasses the IPC circuit. 
I had a solenoid that failed and I cleaned all the contacts and it worked outside the circuit. But when I reinstalled it, it would not work. It turns out that the side male connectors, which is where the control circuit triggers the solenoid, had bad solder connections to the male connector. Now I have a backup solenoid. 
image0.jpeg

Thanks, Doug Smith

Amel 54-113, Aventura
Deltaville VA, USA
Dugsmith98@...

On Oct 22, 2022, at 10:38 PM, Roque <ediroque@...> wrote:


David

What is the hull number?

You wrote: “ In my reading of the circuit diagrams, this should be 24v.”

Which circuit diagram are you referring to? If you mean the Sleipner owners manual, Amel did not follow it. Neither color code nor wiring. 

Roque
Attika A54 117
Paraty Brazil 

Em sáb., 22 de out. de 2022 às 22:47, David Dickman <jdd91656@...> escreveu:
Hi All,
   I am having an issue with the bow thruster on my A54.  I believe it is either the Sleipner SP 200 or SP240, the identification tag is hidden on the back of the motor next to the bulkhead and lift drive so I can't see it.  

At any rate, the lift motor works fine, but the thruster driving the propellers has stopped.  It worked fine, then was intermittent one day, then stopped altogether.

Here is what I have done:
Replaced:
4 bow thruster relays (UP/down)
IPC switch 6-1232-i
IPC switch wiring harness
reversed up/down proximity sensors and wiring to check if they work (they do)
removed and cleaned solenoid and all contacts inside.
checked power switch at helm -gets 26v
checked thruster momentary toggle at helm (26v - 0, depending upon port/starboard direction - working)
replaced emergency cutoff switch (working)
checked main power fuse to 24v supply attached to emergency cut off switch (good, 0ohm)
checked 10A fuse in relay box (good, 0ohm)
Up/Down ball screw motor on thruster works both directions reliably, sound indicator works, raise and lower stop function works.

Now, however, I only get 6v at the power control harness on the bow thruster between the red and black wires.  In my reading of the circuit diagrams, this should be 24v.  I don't know where this voltage is produced - is it inside the motor itself?
The neg/positive (A1 and Pos post on motor read 26v between them).

Anybody have ideas where to look for the small supply voltage of only 6V?  

Related question, can I take off the motor while the boat is in the water.  Looks like I can.  The shaft down to the propellers is attached by an aluminuml L plate to the up/down ball screw lift motor and when locked in place with the safety pin, it should not move.  that should allow one to remove just the motor head.

Advice?

thanks,
     David


--
Roque
Attika A54 117
Paraty - Brazil