Topics

Chain and Anchor

Herbert Lackner
 

Hi Amelians,

an excellent topic to discuss - anchor and chain :-) 

just booked the flights back to Mexico and "in preparation" for the next season... and therefore questions...

KALI MERA has 90 Meters of 10mm stainless steel chain (316), unfortunately the chain is ~ 13 years old and "end of life" and we have to replace it (galvanic corrosion).

We carry two anchors:
1. Rocna 33 (kg) galvanized main anchor, very satisfied with it. worked perfect in all conditions the last 15.000 miles, maybe a little bit oversized for the Santorin
2. the original Amel stainless steel anchor (25kg) as spare anchor, never used it up to now (I do not know what the manufacturer is, it looks very similar to a Spade, have seen it on many other Amels already, I believe it has been the Amel standard Anchor)

This has been the setup of the boat when we purchased her, and now, as we have to replace the chain, I am thinking what the best option would be

a) I could buy a Wälder stainless steel chain, certified for tropic climate,  made of 1.4462 steel, expensive but very reliable and no problems with galvanic corrosion in warm water
b)  could buy standard galvanized steel chain

We prefer to have the stainless steel chain again because it stays so clean and no problems "in operation"...
argument against stainless steel chain is (beside the price): the Rocna 33 is not stainless, so there might be some "galvanic problems" when connecting the chain to the anchor. To avoid that we could use the Amel factory supplied stainless anchor as a main anchor and use the Rocna as spare, but we do not know if it works as good as the Rocna and it is only 25kg and not 33kg.

So, questions:
* How is the Original stainless Anchor 25 compared to the Rocna 33 ? Any experiences? (we are currently in Mexico and will head to the south pacific in one or two years)
* Is there a problem when connecting the new 1.446 Cromox chain to the galvanized Rocna? Wälder told me that these might cause rust on the chain.

thank you very much for your advise and experiences

fair winds,

herbert
SN120 KALI MERA, Mazatlan

Matt Salatino
 

Keep in mind, galvanized, steel chain is more ductile than stainless (a good thing) and has higher tensile strength. Those are positives. Oh, also costs less.
Negative is, when the galvanizing wears, it begins to rust.

Typically, a 33 kg Rocna will perform better than most 25 kg anchors......

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Sep 1, 2019, at 10:20 AM, Herbert Lackner <herbert@...> wrote:

Hi Amelians,

an excellent topic to discuss - anchor and chain :-) 

just booked the flights back to Mexico and "in preparation" for the next season... and therefore questions...

KALI MERA has 90 Meters of 10mm stainless steel chain (316), unfortunately the chain is ~ 13 years old and "end of life" and we have to replace it (galvanic corrosion).

We carry two anchors:
1. Rocna 33 (kg) galvanized main anchor, very satisfied with it. worked perfect in all conditions the last 15.000 miles, maybe a little bit oversized for the Santorin
2. the original Amel stainless steel anchor (25kg) as spare anchor, never used it up to now (I do not know what the manufacturer is, it looks very similar to a Spade, have seen it on many other Amels already, I believe it has been the Amel standard Anchor)

This has been the setup of the boat when we purchased her, and now, as we have to replace the chain, I am thinking what the best option would be

a) I could buy a Wälder stainless steel chain, certified for tropic climate,  made of 1.4462 steel, expensive but very reliable and no problems with galvanic corrosion in warm water
b)  could buy standard galvanized steel chain

We prefer to have the stainless steel chain again because it stays so clean and no problems "in operation"...
argument against stainless steel chain is (beside the price): the Rocna 33 is not stainless, so there might be some "galvanic problems" when connecting the chain to the anchor. To avoid that we could use the Amel factory supplied stainless anchor as a main anchor and use the Rocna as spare, but we do not know if it works as good as the Rocna and it is only 25kg and not 33kg.

So, questions:
* How is the Original stainless Anchor 25 compared to the Rocna 33 ? Any experiences? (we are currently in Mexico and will head to the south pacific in one or two years)
* Is there a problem when connecting the new 1.446 Cromox chain to the galvanized Rocna? Wälder told me that these might cause rust on the chain.

thank you very much for your advise and experiences

fair winds,

herbert
SN120 KALI MERA, Mazatlan

Elja Röllinghoff Balu SM 222
 

I ordert now
One spade ancor Seewater Aluminium 18,5 Kg
for second and stern ancor and 28 kg seewater Aluminium for main ancor
I hope it is a god concept

Best
SM Balu
222

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Ian
 

Hi Herbert,
Can’t comment on the chain as I’ve never had stainless. Guess it might settle better in the anchor locker.
We have the 25kg Rocna on our Santorin and not had any problem with it. With 100m of 10mm galvanised chain I was concerned about the total weight on the bow. Mind you I haven’t yet put out more than 50 metres.
I’ve also got a Spade stowed away and 37 and 16 Fortress. I had a 45lb CQR but gave it away to the OCC Port Officer in Dominica. Would work well on one of the local fishing boats!
Would be interesting to hear from other Santorin owners.

Best wishes

Ian and Linda

Ocean Hobo SN 96
Currently in the Limfjord, Denmark waiting for a good wind for Scotland!

ngtnewington Newington
 

The original stainless anchor is probably a WASI Beugel anchor. It is a good anchor for sure but in my opinion your 33kg Rocna is much better and nearly 30% bigger.

I recently demoted my 30kg WASI to the second anchor and bought a 37Kg Spade, as the primary anchor. I can confirm that the Spade appears to be superior by a large margin. My evidence is of course anecdotal but:

I recently left Amelia in a harbour in Kefalonia for a few weeks. She is fixed to a mooring block plus my anchor. We are in 3m depth. The Spade is set with 50m of chain. The bottom is not great holding. There is about 30cm of dead organic matter then soft silty mud. I dived it. I set the Spade with full RPM and she went down and set solid. I then thought it would be interesting to set the WASI too.After all I was going to leave Amelia whilst I returned to the UK. I laid it with the dinghy; 10m chain and 50m of rope. Remember the boat is stern to a dock and fixed with a mooring and the Spade. I started to winch in the WASI until it was just taught. I then had a coffee and left it to settle.  
I then began to winch in on the WASI. It kept coming all the way home ploughing a nice furrow in the sea bed!!!! So it ended up back on the bow roller.
So there you have it...
By the way whilst enjoying my evening drink several yachts came in to anchor, mostly using Delta’s and most of them either dragged or could not get a set....so the holding is indeed poor.

Nick
S/Y Amelia 
AML 54-019

On 1 Sep 2019, at 15:20, Herbert Lackner <herbert@...> wrote:

Hi Amelians,

an excellent topic to discuss - anchor and chain :-) 

just booked the flights back to Mexico and "in preparation" for the next season... and therefore questions...

KALI MERA has 90 Meters of 10mm stainless steel chain (316), unfortunately the chain is ~ 13 years old and "end of life" and we have to replace it (galvanic corrosion).

We carry two anchors:
1. Rocna 33 (kg) galvanized main anchor, very satisfied with it. worked perfect in all conditions the last 15.000 miles, maybe a little bit oversized for the Santorin
2. the original Amel stainless steel anchor (25kg) as spare anchor, never used it up to now (I do not know what the manufacturer is, it looks very similar to a Spade, have seen it on many other Amels already, I believe it has been the Amel standard Anchor)

This has been the setup of the boat when we purchased her, and now, as we have to replace the chain, I am thinking what the best option would be

a) I could buy a Wälder stainless steel chain, certified for tropic climate,  made of 1.4462 steel, expensive but very reliable and no problems with galvanic corrosion in warm water
b)  could buy standard galvanized steel chain

We prefer to have the stainless steel chain again because it stays so clean and no problems "in operation"...
argument against stainless steel chain is (beside the price): the Rocna 33 is not stainless, so there might be some "galvanic problems" when connecting the chain to the anchor. To avoid that we could use the Amel factory supplied stainless anchor as a main anchor and use the Rocna as spare, but we do not know if it works as good as the Rocna and it is only 25kg and not 33kg.

So, questions:
* How is the Original stainless Anchor 25 compared to the Rocna 33 ? Any experiences? (we are currently in Mexico and will head to the south pacific in one or two years)
* Is there a problem when connecting the new 1.446 Cromox chain to the galvanized Rocna? Wälder told me that these might cause rust on the chain.

thank you very much for your advise and experiences

fair winds,

herbert
SN120 KALI MERA, Mazatlan

Heinz Stutenbaeumer
 

Hallo 
I have a 100m 10 mm stainless steel chain and a Mantus stainless steel 85 lbs steel ANKER. The Price for the Mantus is about half as the Rocna. I have it 9 month now with no problem at all. 
I get it from Marine Warehouse when I was in Panama. 
Fare winds 
Heinz 
Quetzal, sm 2000, 292

Mit freundlichen Grüßen 
Heinz Stutenbāumer
Dachdeckermeister


Am 01.09.2019 um 20:03 schrieb ngtnewington Newington via Groups.Io <ngtnewington@...>:

The original stainless anchor is probably a WASI Beugel anchor. It is a good anchor for sure but in my opinion your 33kg Rocna is much better and nearly 30% bigger.

I recently demoted my 30kg WASI to the second anchor and bought a 37Kg Spade, as the primary anchor. I can confirm that the Spade appears to be superior by a large margin. My evidence is of course anecdotal but:

I recently left Amelia in a harbour in Kefalonia for a few weeks. She is fixed to a mooring block plus my anchor. We are in 3m depth. The Spade is set with 50m of chain. The bottom is not great holding. There is about 30cm of dead organic matter then soft silty mud. I dived it. I set the Spade with full RPM and she went down and set solid. I then thought it would be interesting to set the WASI too.After all I was going to leave Amelia whilst I returned to the UK. I laid it with the dinghy; 10m chain and 50m of rope. Remember the boat is stern to a dock and fixed with a mooring and the Spade. I started to winch in the WASI until it was just taught. I then had a coffee and left it to settle.  
I then began to winch in on the WASI. It kept coming all the way home ploughing a nice furrow in the sea bed!!!! So it ended up back on the bow roller.
So there you have it...
By the way whilst enjoying my evening drink several yachts came in to anchor, mostly using Delta’s and most of them either dragged or could not get a set....so the holding is indeed poor.

Nick
S/Y Amelia 
AML 54-019

On 1 Sep 2019, at 15:20, Herbert Lackner <herbert@...> wrote:

Hi Amelians,

an excellent topic to discuss - anchor and chain :-) 

just booked the flights back to Mexico and "in preparation" for the next season... and therefore questions...

KALI MERA has 90 Meters of 10mm stainless steel chain (316), unfortunately the chain is ~ 13 years old and "end of life" and we have to replace it (galvanic corrosion).

We carry two anchors:
1. Rocna 33 (kg) galvanized main anchor, very satisfied with it. worked perfect in all conditions the last 15.000 miles, maybe a little bit oversized for the Santorin
2. the original Amel stainless steel anchor (25kg) as spare anchor, never used it up to now (I do not know what the manufacturer is, it looks very similar to a Spade, have seen it on many other Amels already, I believe it has been the Amel standard Anchor)

This has been the setup of the boat when we purchased her, and now, as we have to replace the chain, I am thinking what the best option would be

a) I could buy a Wälder stainless steel chain, certified for tropic climate,  made of 1.4462 steel, expensive but very reliable and no problems with galvanic corrosion in warm water
b)  could buy standard galvanized steel chain

We prefer to have the stainless steel chain again because it stays so clean and no problems "in operation"...
argument against stainless steel chain is (beside the price): the Rocna 33 is not stainless, so there might be some "galvanic problems" when connecting the chain to the anchor. To avoid that we could use the Amel factory supplied stainless anchor as a main anchor and use the Rocna as spare, but we do not know if it works as good as the Rocna and it is only 25kg and not 33kg.

So, questions:
* How is the Original stainless Anchor 25 compared to the Rocna 33 ? Any experiences? (we are currently in Mexico and will head to the south pacific in one or two years)
* Is there a problem when connecting the new 1.446 Cromox chain to the galvanized Rocna? Wälder told me that these might cause rust on the chain.

thank you very much for your advise and experiences

fair winds,

herbert
SN120 KALI MERA, Mazatlan

Herbert Lackner
 

Nick, yes, it is a WASI Buegel anchor.

Any experiences with the WASI compared to the Rocna? Why have so many upgraded to Rocna?

herbert

ngtnewington Newington
 

Hi Herbert,

Anchor discussions are always tricky but interesting and indeed important. The Wasi Buegel was invented in the 1980’s and really was one of the first of the new generation.  My problem with it is that it only digs in so far and will not continue to penetrate. This is fine in sand and firm mud but when it come to very soupy silty mud it simply drags whereas I believe the ROCNA and the SPADE and many other modern anchors dig deep. It also has quite a small surface area.

Kind regards

Nick

On 2 Sep 2019, at 07:17, Herbert Lackner <herbert@...> wrote:

Nick, yes, it is a WASI Buegel anchor.

Any experiences with the WASI compared to the Rocna? Why have so many upgraded to Rocna?

herbert

Paul Brown
 

I have only had bad experiences with the Wasi when anchoring in anything other than sand, it drags unexpectedly and very difficult to set in mud or sea grass and sometimes it won’t set,,, I upgraded to a 55kg Spade with a Douglas Marine swivel and it performs excellently, sets quick and very well in mud or sea grass, it also fits well on the A55 spit and releases and stows perfectly every time correctly 

I hope this assists

Regards Paul Fortuna 55#17


On 2 Sep 2019, at 8:17 am, Herbert Lackner <herbert@...> wrote:

Nick, yes, it is a WASI Buegel anchor.

Any experiences with the WASI compared to the Rocna? Why have so many upgraded to Rocna?

herbert

Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica
 

Hi,

Since we modified our WASI it digs deep, also through sea weeds and soft mud.
We welded a shaped 6mm stainless plate beneath and filled the gap with lead and closer with ss.
Now its 10kg+ more wight on the fluke side.

Oliver

A54#39

Culatra Portugal

Sent from my Huawei Mobile


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Chain and Anchor
From: Paul Brown
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
CC:


I have only had bad experiences with the Wasi when anchoring in anything other than sand, it drags unexpectedly and very difficult to set in mud or sea grass and sometimes it won’t set,,, I upgraded to a 55kg Spade with a Douglas Marine swivel and it performs excellently, sets quick and very well in mud or sea grass, it also fits well on the A55 spit and releases and stows perfectly every time correctly 

I hope this assists

Regards Paul Fortuna 55#17


On 2 Sep 2019, at 8:17 am, Herbert Lackner <herbert@...> wrote:

Nick, yes, it is a WASI Buegel anchor.

Any experiences with the WASI compared to the Rocna? Why have so many upgraded to Rocna?

herbert