Coast Guard Documentation
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Greetings All, I need to change my CG doc to fix gross and net tonnage as well as LOA from 53' to 16m or 52.4'. Hopefully they will round down. I'm being upcharged everywhere I go in the Med. |
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Germain Jean-Pierre
Hi guys,
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In the Med, as most other destinations worldwide, you will be charged for LOA. (Length Over All). They will measure your boat and add bow and stern overhang…. No amount of presenting CG paperwork will change that. Sorry for the bad news Jean-Pierre Germain, ex Eleuthera SM007 On Feb 14, 2023, at 16:40, Chuck_Kim_Joy <clacey9@...> wrote:
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Chuck and Kim,
A lot of marinas do not measure your boat, they just take what's on the paper. I find the USCG extremely pleasing to work with. They are great. They are fast. For paperwork but they also saved my life once, AND they conducted a search and rescue mission when we caught in a cyclone. Talk to them and explain. As for your spouse this is how we did: we changed the name on the certification to our trust name. You can set up a trust on Nolo in one hour and that will cost you $50. Then transfer ownership to the trust like you would do for your house. -- John Bernard "JB" Duler San Francisco Meltem # 19, Western Med |
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I highly suggest you
have joint ownership of the vessel. We know of an American
couple where he died. The US-flagged boat was in his name
only. The government officials refused to issue a zarpe for
the vessel until such a time legal ownership could be proven.
This required having to retain a local attorney. The wife
quickly found out she was at the mercy of the local government
and countries probate laws. Fortunately, it turned out well
for her, but at a considerable cost and time investment.
Selling the vessel in another country might also prove to be
problematic. If you run into any
troubles with joint ownership, establish an LLC and both have
equal share of the LLC. In fact, you should do this anyway.
This will also protect your personal assets if you find
yourself in a situation of liability in another country,
especially if the liability claim goes beyond your insurance
policy limits (which is not hard to do). You can be held
accountable for the balance if you don't have an LLC
With best regards,
Mark
Skipper Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275 Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia
On 2/14/2023 6:40 AM, Chuck_Kim_Joy
wrote:
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Hello, my experience in Med is that marinas will take boat data that are written in boat papers. Maybe lately they will measure as many bats are adding solar panels and davits for dinghies. In 2021 my Amel was measured in ACI Marina Umag for yearly contract. In current Marina Polesana in Pula for 2022/2023 they did not.
-- Slavko SM 2000 #279 Bonne Anse in Croatia |
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Mike Longcor (SV Trilogy)
You will have no issues listing two owners on the USCG COD. Creating an LLC might be better for all the reasons already given. Cheers, Mike Longcor SV Trilogy SM23 Opua, NZ On Wed, Feb 15, 2023, 5:40 AM Chuck_Kim_Joy <clacey9@...> wrote:
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Tim Melbourne
If you choose joint ownership, be advised that there are several legal flavors of US joint ownership that endow different rights.
With boat joint ownership between spouses, you probably want JTWRS, joint tenants with rights of survivorship, which in the event of the death of a spouse gives the surviving spouse 100% ownership. Common property, by contrast, will land you in probate to prove to USCG that some 3rd party isn't going to come out of the woodwork with a signed statement by the deceased spouse stating their share of the boat goes to the 3rd party. Other options include assigning boat ownership to a trust that designates primary and successor trustees, or an LLC as suggested above. -Tim Melbourne Third Wish SM2K #306 Seattle |
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Bill Kinney
You can not change the dimensions on the document, in the normal course of things they were generated from the original builder's certificate. The only way to change that is to modify the vessel and get a new certificate.
There is no need to correct the tonnage numbers. Remember, these have NOTHING to do with the actual weight of the vessel, rather are numbers that indicate the volume of the vessel (100 cubic feet == 1 "ton"). Gross tons is a measure of the total interior volume of the vessel and net tons is a theoretical cargo carrying capacity. Neither have anything to do with the real world weight of the vessel. Both are also just estimates based on some rather archaic formulae. Be happy with the numbers as they are normally issued. Chanteirs Amel issued builders certificates with the dimensions NOT as the real LOA (Length Over All) , but rather as the LOD (Length on Deck). Take a tape measure and stretch it from the front of the bow pulpit to the very back of the transom. Don't do this if you want to tell the marina manager you have a "52 foot" boat with a pure and honest heart. You'll likely find your boat is bigger than you think... Bill Kinney SM160, Harmonie Great Inagua, Bahamas http://www.cruisingconsulting.com |
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Thx Bill. I contacted the CG and I would have to reapply with new forms supporting the tonnage and Los. I'll just leave as is for now. I'll pay the extra €8 per month for 53' vs 16m for Greek cruising tax. All the best! Chuck and Kim Joy 388 in Preveza Greece Humans Currently in Utah US On Thu, Feb 16, 2023 at 5:23 PM Bill Kinney <cruisingconsulting@...> wrote: You can not change the dimensions on the document, in the normal course of things they were generated from the original builder's certificate. The only way to change that is to modify the vessel and get a new certificate. |
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In 3 years of cruising the Med, staying at many marinas in several countries, our boat has never been measured. They go by the documentation that I present.
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11 years of sailing around the world, our SM 53 was measured twice, both times in Panama. The Panama Canal Admeasure declared the SM to be 56.1 feet. The manager of the Marina Carenero in Bocas insisted on measuring and measured 57 feet. In both cases the person measuring took the tape from the deck level, fore and aft, over the top of the bimini. Bill
In 3 years of cruising the Med, staying at many marinas in several countries, our boat has never been measured. They go by the documentation that I present. |
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Bill Kinney
My best straight line measurement of Harmonie, excluding arch and any other add-ons, from forward most point on the bow pulpit to end of the transom fender is: 54' 7", 16.64 m. +/- a few cm either way. The overhang on our solar panels adds about another foot to that. Pretty darn close to 17 m.
If you are paying your marina for 53 feet, smile and say, "Thank you." If you are paying for 52 feet, say, "Thank you, very much!" Everywhere you go a good dockmaster knows EXACTLY how far apart his pilings are, and the boards in his piers. He knows without a tape measure how long your boat is and how much you are shaving (intentionally or not) on the length. The only place we have actually been measured was where the marina owner was acting as dockmaster while the long term dockmaster was on medical leave. I am pretty sure the marina increased its gross revenue that season by significantly more than 5% just by measuring every boat's actual length and billing based on that. Bill Kinney SM160, Harmonie Great Inagua, Bahamas http://www.cruisingconsulting.com |
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Good chuckle, Bill - our Panama Canal Admeasurer also ran her tape up and over the bimini, much to my consternation. But then she flashed a great smile and said to me, "So how long is your boat?" and wrote down the number I gave her. Repeated the same for the beam measurement. Gotta love it!
-- Craig Briggs - s/v Sangaris / SN68 Tropic Isle Harbor, FL |
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