Topics

converting 24v alternator to ribbed micro v (serpentine)


ngtnewington Newington
 

Hi fellow Amel owners.

 I have never been happy with the Leece-Neville 24v 175A alternator set up on Amelia presumably as supplied by Amel. 

Namely a double V belt pulley of 230mm diameter driving a 85mm diameter pulley on the alternator. These pulleys were supplied for B section belts, i.e. 17mm across the top. There was endless belt dust and short belt life. I checked the specs on B section belts and the minimum pulley diameter should be 112mm although it is possible to buy a cogged belt that can run on a minimum 91mm diameter pulley, however in general 112mm diameter is the smallest for B section belts. So this 85mm diameter pulley was wrong for such big belts.


I found on eBay Leece-Neville part number K176101466, priced $30. This is a K section 8 groove pulley with 63mm diameter.  The bore is 7/8 inch with keyway to fit the alternator. The pulley was new and unused.

Micro v belts can go round much smaller pulleys. I think for the K section it is a minimum of 45mm. So no problem going round a 63mm pulley.

I then took the original 230mm double groove pulley, that bolts to the Volvo crankshaft to my local machine shop in the UK who milled it down to match the Leece-Neville one I bought. He did a superb job for £60. 

Please see the photos of the big pulley that has been machined down from 230mm to 200mm.

So I calculate that I now have a pulley ratio of 3.14 whilst before it was 2.7. Thus at idle (725 rpm on the engine) the alternator now runs at 2300 rpm and will be charging nicely. Where as before in idle it was running at 1957 rpm. The alternator only kicks in at 2000 rpm. So in the boat manoeuvring situation we will now have proper charge, and we all know how much power the Bowthruster uses.

The alternator is rated for a maximum RPM of 8000. The Volvo D3 has maximum rpm of about 2700 so I calculate that the maximum engine rpm will have to be 2547.

Seeing as that is really thrashing the engine and I never run it it that level apart from the once a year blast out. I will put a small sticker at the helm saying Max RPM 2500.

Total cost in US$ including new Gates Fleetrunner belt about $125.

Obviously when I get back to the boat I will have to align the alternator, but note how now both pulley are exactly the same width. It will be much easier than before where one pulley was 47mm and the other 52mm. The machine shop supplied me with a few spacers, washers of different thickness, to help but I may well have to have a washer made  for the final alignment.

Nick (in the UK)

S/Y Amelia AML 54-019 in Leros Gr









Barry Connor
 

Thank you Nick,
This is excellent information.
Early 2019 I had my engine serviced at Marina de Ragusa in Sicily, the technicians told me the pulleys were wrong. I didn’t want to try and replace the pulleys with no engineering knowledge.
You have just solved the problem for all early 54 owners. Thank you again.
Very Best

Barry and Penny
“SV Lady Penelope II”
Amel 54. #17
Sainte Anne anchorage Martinique 


On Sep 24, 2020, at 08:00, ngtnewington Newington via groups.io <ngtnewington@...> wrote:


Hi fellow Amel owners.

 I have never been happy with the Leece-Neville 24v 175A alternator set up on Amelia presumably as supplied by Amel. 

Namely a double V belt pulley of 230mm diameter driving a 85mm diameter pulley on the alternator. These pulleys were supplied for B section belts, i.e. 17mm across the top. There was endless belt dust and short belt life. I checked the specs on B section belts and the minimum pulley diameter should be 112mm although it is possible to buy a cogged belt that can run on a minimum 91mm diameter pulley, however in general 112mm diameter is the smallest for B section belts. So this 85mm diameter pulley was wrong for such big belts.


I found on eBay Leece-Neville part number K176101466, priced $30. This is a K section 8 groove pulley with 63mm diameter.  The bore is 7/8 inch with keyway to fit the alternator. The pulley was new and unused.

Micro v belts can go round much smaller pulleys. I think for the K section it is a minimum of 45mm. So no problem going round a 63mm pulley.

I then took the original 230mm double groove pulley, that bolts to the Volvo crankshaft to my local machine shop in the UK who milled it down to match the Leece-Neville one I bought. He did a superb job for £60. 

Please see the photos of the big pulley that has been machined down from 230mm to 200mm.

So I calculate that I now have a pulley ratio of 3.14 whilst before it was 2.7. Thus at idle (725 rpm on the engine) the alternator now runs at 2300 rpm and will be charging nicely. Where as before in idle it was running at 1957 rpm. The alternator only kicks in at 2000 rpm. So in the boat manoeuvring situation we will now have proper charge, and we all know how much power the Bowthruster uses.

The alternator is rated for a maximum RPM of 8000. The Volvo D3 has maximum rpm of about 2700 so I calculate that the maximum engine rpm will have to be 2547.

Seeing as that is really thrashing the engine and I never run it it that level apart from the once a year blast out. I will put a small sticker at the helm saying Max RPM 2500.

Total cost in US$ including new Gates Fleetrunner belt about $125.

Obviously when I get back to the boat I will have to align the alternator, but note how now both pulley are exactly the same width. It will be much easier than before where one pulley was 47mm and the other 52mm. The machine shop supplied me with a few spacers, washers of different thickness, to help but I may well have to have a washer made  for the final alignment.

Nick (in the UK)

S/Y Amelia AML 54-019 in Leros Gr







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Alan Leslie
 

Hi Nick,
Whilst I agree serpentine belts are the ultimate for these applications, I would have to say that in 7 years we have had no issues with the twin belt setup on our Yanmar with Leece Neville 175A alternator - and we have an external regulator which means that the alternator works harder than a standard one.
I changed the belts 5 years ago, just because I thought I should, and we had only just noticeable dusting and never broken or worn out a belt.
In my previous experience, belt dusting and short belt life is caused by one or both of two things
1. Pulley misalignment
2, damaged V grooves in either or both pulleys - the groove sides must be absolutely smooth and clean.
and of course, incorrect belt tension.
A recommendation for belts I got from a local belts and transmission supplier, years ago, is to use Dayco / Carlisle raw edged cogged belts. They go around corners better and offer superior grip on the V pulleys than solid belts.
I have been using those belts on this boat and the previous one for  nearly 15 years with no issues ever.
An advantage to using the standard setup, on our boat anyway, is that all 3 belts on the front of the engine are the same size.
Cheers
Alan
ELYSE SM437


ngtnewington Newington
 

Hi Alan, 
Yes I know your set up is great, but you are running A section belts whilst the early 54’s were set up for B section.  This is the crux of the problem.
I have an external regulator.
I have had both pulleys off and checked at a machine shop. I have re aligned to perfection, but driving a B section belt around a tight pulley does not work.
I tried A section belts in the old pulleys but they bottom out.
So sticking with the old meant a new big pulley ...$$
Nick
Amelia 
AML54-019



On 25 Sep 2020, at 00:00, Alan Leslie <s.v.elyse@...> wrote:

Hi Nick,
Whilst I agree serpentine belts are the ultimate for these applications, I would have to say that in 7 years we have had no issues with the twin belt setup on our Yanmar with Leece Neville 175A alternator - and we have an external regulator which means that the alternator works harder than a standard one.
I changed the belts 5 years ago, just because I thought I should, and we had only just noticeable dusting and never broken or worn out a belt.
In my previous experience, belt dusting and short belt life is caused by one or both of two things
1. Pulley misalignment
2, damaged V grooves in either or both pulleys - the groove sides must be absolutely smooth and clean.
and of course, incorrect belt tension.
A recommendation for belts I got from a local belts and transmission supplier, years ago, is to use Dayco / Carlisle raw edged cogged belts. They go around corners better and offer superior grip on the V pulleys than solid belts.
I have been using those belts on this boat and the previous one for  nearly 15 years with no issues ever.
An advantage to using the standard setup, on our boat anyway, is that all 3 belts on the front of the engine are the same size.
Cheers
Alan
ELYSE SM437


Alan Leslie
 

Ah, Nick you've got me again!
Subtle differences between SM and 54.
Yes clearly a design issue.
Belt manufacturers specify minimum pulley diameters for each section belt and the minimum for B section is generally half again what is specified for A section
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Giovanni TESTA
 

Hi Alan,
...which the code/type, please, of your Dayco / Carlisle raw edged cogged belts
Many thanks
ciao
Giovanni
ps look at video/photo/test of 19/September post: MEDIterranean HurriCANE_ Medicane
https://www.facebook.com/giovanni.testa.73?locale=it_IT%2F




Il 25/09/2020 01:00, Alan Leslie ha scritto:
Dayco / Carlisle raw edged cogged


Dominique Sery
 

Hello,
When I bought my boat in 2017, the broker told me that the Neuville 24 volt 175 amp double V-belt alternators originally installed on the first 54 were recalled by Amel for exchange with the Mastervolt 24 volt 110 amp flat belt alternators with Volvo mounting bracket, due to recurring problems with the belts, misaligned pulleys, mismatched?
Changing the pulleys is worth a try, it will be much cheaper than buying a Mastervolt alternator, the pulley, the Alpha pro regulator, the Volvo mounting bracket (about 2000 euros the whole).
The 54 that I bought ( 54 # 16) benefited from the change supported by Amel, I've been told.
There was no problem with the Supermaramu equipped with Neuville alternators, but the engines were different from the first Amel 54


Alan Leslie
 

Hi Giovanni,

The standard belt is A46
The Carlisle Gold Ribbon raw edge cogged belt is AX46

The A section belt is 1/2" across and 13/32" deep
The AX belt is 1/2" across and 11/32" deep - helps it go around corners better.

I'm not in Facebook so I can't view your video, but I did see video of the Medicane hitting Ithaca and it wasn't good.

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Giovanni TESTA
 

Hi Alan,
many thanks for infos.
 My Yanmar technician suggested to follow Manual Spare Parts as in PDF_Fig.20 _ n.7
The Carlisle belts are for secure an improvement, I suppose. I ll try to find them on line.
Next future I ll post the Medicane (Med Hurricane) video from my boat on my Youtube page
 https://www.youtube.com/user/eutikia1
Buon Vento
Giovanni
sv EUTIKIA SM 428
Itaca, Porto Vathy (GR)

Il 26/09/2020 00:48, Alan Leslie ha scritto:
Hi Giovanni,

The standard belt is A46
The Carlisle Gold Ribbon raw edge cogged belt is AX46

The A section belt is 1/2" across and 13/32" deep
The AX belt is 1/2" across and 11/32" deep - helps it go around corners better.

I'm not in Facebook so I can't view your video, but I did see video of the Medicane hitting Ithaca and it wasn't good.

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica
 

Hello Nick,

Can you describe the process to remouve the alternator pulley wheel a bit closer. Its hard to remouve... 

Oliver from Vela Nautica 
A54#39 
Martinique 

On Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 08:00 ngtnewington Newington via groups.io <ngtnewington=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi fellow Amel owners.

 I have never been happy with the Leece-Neville 24v 175A alternator set up on Amelia presumably as supplied by Amel. 

Namely a double V belt pulley of 230mm diameter driving a 85mm diameter pulley on the alternator. These pulleys were supplied for B section belts, i.e. 17mm across the top. There was endless belt dust and short belt life. I checked the specs on B section belts and the minimum pulley diameter should be 112mm although it is possible to buy a cogged belt that can run on a minimum 91mm diameter pulley, however in general 112mm diameter is the smallest for B section belts. So this 85mm diameter pulley was wrong for such big belts.


I found on eBay Leece-Neville part number K176101466, priced $30. This is a K section 8 groove pulley with 63mm diameter.  The bore is 7/8 inch with keyway to fit the alternator. The pulley was new and unused.

Micro v belts can go round much smaller pulleys. I think for the K section it is a minimum of 45mm. So no problem going round a 63mm pulley.

I then took the original 230mm double groove pulley, that bolts to the Volvo crankshaft to my local machine shop in the UK who milled it down to match the Leece-Neville one I bought. He did a superb job for £60. 

Please see the photos of the big pulley that has been machined down from 230mm to 200mm.

So I calculate that I now have a pulley ratio of 3.14 whilst before it was 2.7. Thus at idle (725 rpm on the engine) the alternator now runs at 2300 rpm and will be charging nicely. Where as before in idle it was running at 1957 rpm. The alternator only kicks in at 2000 rpm. So in the boat manoeuvring situation we will now have proper charge, and we all know how much power the Bowthruster uses.

The alternator is rated for a maximum RPM of 8000. The Volvo D3 has maximum rpm of about 2700 so I calculate that the maximum engine rpm will have to be 2547.

Seeing as that is really thrashing the engine and I never run it it that level apart from the once a year blast out. I will put a small sticker at the helm saying Max RPM 2500.

Total cost in US$ including new Gates Fleetrunner belt about $125.

Obviously when I get back to the boat I will have to align the alternator, but note how now both pulley are exactly the same width. It will be much easier than before where one pulley was 47mm and the other 52mm. The machine shop supplied me with a few spacers, washers of different thickness, to help but I may well have to have a washer made  for the final alignment.

Nick (in the UK)

S/Y Amelia AML 54-019 in Leros Gr









ngtnewington Newington
 

Hi Oliver,

If you are talking about the small pulley on the alternator itself,  it is very tight, so you may have to take the alternator off to a garage that changes car tyres and ask them to use the compressed air socket set. However I did not need to do that. 

The problem is how to hold the shaft of the alternator whilst undoing the nut. If you use a screw driver in the fan blades then you will damage it. If you look closely at the end of the shaft where the pulley nut is threaded you will see a hexagonal hole that will accept an allan key. You still can not use a  normal socket as that would block the access to the hexagonal hole. You could use a socket with two flat sides to put a big wrench on, then undo the nut whilst holding the shaft with the allan key.

When the nut is removed you may need a puller as the pulley should be a snug fit on the shaft.

If you are talking about the big pulley bolted to the engine pulley. There are 4 bolts that can be removed quite easily. Then use a long bar to gently lever off the pulley.

I hope that helps a photo would make it easier to explain.

Nick

Amelia 
AML 54-019 Greece


On 26 Sep 2020, at 16:59, Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica <oliver.henrichsen@...> wrote:

Hello Nick,

Can you describe the process to remouve the alternator pulley wheel a bit closer. Its hard to remouve... 

Oliver from Vela Nautica 
A54#39 
Martinique 

On Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 08:00 ngtnewington Newington via groups.io <ngtnewington=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi fellow Amel owners.

 I have never been happy with the Leece-Neville 24v 175A alternator set up on Amelia presumably as supplied by Amel. 

Namely a double V belt pulley of 230mm diameter driving a 85mm diameter pulley on the alternator. These pulleys were supplied for B section belts, i.e. 17mm across the top. There was endless belt dust and short belt life. I checked the specs on B section belts and the minimum pulley diameter should be 112mm although it is possible to buy a cogged belt that can run on a minimum 91mm diameter pulley, however in general 112mm diameter is the smallest for B section belts. So this 85mm diameter pulley was wrong for such big belts.


I found on eBay Leece-Neville part number K176101466, priced $30. This is a K section 8 groove pulley with 63mm diameter.  The bore is 7/8 inch with keyway to fit the alternator. The pulley was new and unused.

Micro v belts can go round much smaller pulleys. I think for the K section it is a minimum of 45mm. So no problem going round a 63mm pulley.

I then took the original 230mm double groove pulley, that bolts to the Volvo crankshaft to my local machine shop in the UK who milled it down to match the Leece-Neville one I bought. He did a superb job for £60. 

Please see the photos of the big pulley that has been machined down from 230mm to 200mm.

So I calculate that I now have a pulley ratio of 3.14 whilst before it was 2.7. Thus at idle (725 rpm on the engine) the alternator now runs at 2300 rpm and will be charging nicely. Where as before in idle it was running at 1957 rpm. The alternator only kicks in at 2000 rpm. So in the boat manoeuvring situation we will now have proper charge, and we all know how much power the Bowthruster uses.

The alternator is rated for a maximum RPM of 8000. The Volvo D3 has maximum rpm of about 2700 so I calculate that the maximum engine rpm will have to be 2547.

Seeing as that is really thrashing the engine and I never run it it that level apart from the once a year blast out. I will put a small sticker at the helm saying Max RPM 2500.

Total cost in US$ including new Gates Fleetrunner belt about $125.

Obviously when I get back to the boat I will have to align the alternator, but note how now both pulley are exactly the same width. It will be much easier than before where one pulley was 47mm and the other 52mm. The machine shop supplied me with a few spacers, washers of different thickness, to help but I may well have to have a washer made  for the final alignment.

Nick (in the UK)

S/Y Amelia AML 54-019 in Leros Gr










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