Topics

Cruise and Max RPM #solution

JOSE PRIETO
 

Hello Amelians!  I am in the process of learning my boat.  The engine is a Volvo TMD22, with autoprop h6 propeller.
I found some threads here on the forum related to this topic, but none conclusive about what is the ideal cruise rpm regime, and what is the maximum rpm?  I can't get more than 2100 rpm!
 Any suggestion?

--
Jose Prieto
SV Wayag, SM 323
Currently Alicante, Spain

jlm@jlmertz.fr
 

Hello,

Amel put an too big AUTOPROP propeller on SM with TMD22 so the maximum  power was approximately 40 HP .... and the RPM on best sea and boat condition was 2 000 - 2 200 RPM.

To go over put a smaller prop !

Dr JL MERTZ

CottonBay




Le 25/06/2020 à 16:10, JOSE PRIETO a écrit :

Hello Amelians!  I am in the process of learning my boat.  The engine is a Volvo TMD22, with autoprop h6 propeller.
I found some threads here on the forum related to this topic, but none conclusive about what is the ideal cruise rpm regime, and what is the maximum rpm?  I can't get more than 2100 rpm!
 Any suggestion?

--
Jose Prieto
SV Wayag, SM 323
Currently Alicante, Spain

Thomas Peacock
 

This is question without a definitive answer. 
We also have the TMD22. When we bought our boat (about 4 years used), we could get almost 3,000 rpm at max throttle. Our local diesel guy suggested cruising at 80% of max, or 2,400. Our max started to lessen within about a year. 
Ever since then, we have usually not been able to max out at 3,000. Usually max is 2,400 to 2,600, so we cruise at 80% of that.
Issues affecting max cruise rpm include bottom, prop (even one barnacle can make a difference), turbo condition, and countless others. 
I suppose that, just like me, the Volvo has also lost a little mojo as it has aged. 

Tom Peacock
SM 240 Aletes
Chesapeake Bay

with its tiny keyboard

On Jun 25, 2020, at 10:10 AM, JOSE PRIETO <prietomd11@...> wrote:

Hello Amelians!  I am in the process of learning my boat.  The engine is a Volvo TMD22, with autoprop h6 propeller.
I found some threads here on the forum related to this topic, but none conclusive about what is the ideal cruise rpm regime, and what is the maximum rpm?  I can't get more than 2100 rpm!
 Any suggestion?

--
Jose Prieto
SV Wayag, SM 323
Currently Alicante, Spain

Ryan Meador
 

We have the TMD22 with a fixed 3-blade prop (the original spare, I think).  When we first got the boat, we could rev to about 3000, and we cruised at about 2400.  This season we could only get up to about 2100 even with a freshly cleaned bottom and prop.  I discovered the turbo had seized, which seemed like the obvious cause, but nothing changed after we had it replaced.  I'm trying to find a fuel problem, as that's the only other thing that might explain it, as far as I know.

Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA


On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 10:55 AM Thomas Peacock <peacock8491@...> wrote:
This is question without a definitive answer. 
We also have the TMD22. When we bought our boat (about 4 years used), we could get almost 3,000 rpm at max throttle. Our local diesel guy suggested cruising at 80% of max, or 2,400. Our max started to lessen within about a year. 
Ever since then, we have usually not been able to max out at 3,000. Usually max is 2,400 to 2,600, so we cruise at 80% of that.
Issues affecting max cruise rpm include bottom, prop (even one barnacle can make a difference), turbo condition, and countless others. 
I suppose that, just like me, the Volvo has also lost a little mojo as it has aged. 

Tom Peacock
SM 240 Aletes
Chesapeake Bay

with its tiny keyboard

On Jun 25, 2020, at 10:10 AM, JOSE PRIETO <prietomd11@...> wrote:

Hello Amelians!  I am in the process of learning my boat.  The engine is a Volvo TMD22, with autoprop h6 propeller.
I found some threads here on the forum related to this topic, but none conclusive about what is the ideal cruise rpm regime, and what is the maximum rpm?  I can't get more than 2100 rpm!
 Any suggestion?

--
Jose Prieto
SV Wayag, SM 323
Currently Alicante, Spain

Patrick McAneny
 

Ryan, Have tried  to manually advance the throttle. Perhaps the throttle linkage /cable may have slipped in the engine compartment. I have the TMD22a and max out at 3100 rpms with a fixed prop or my Maxprop, which gets me to 8.3 kts.
Pat
SM Shenanigans #123


-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan Meador <ryan.d.meador@...>
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jun 25, 2020 11:20 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Cruise and Max RPM #solution

We have the TMD22 with a fixed 3-blade prop (the original spare, I think).  When we first got the boat, we could rev to about 3000, and we cruised at about 2400.  This season we could only get up to about 2100 even with a freshly cleaned bottom and prop.  I discovered the turbo had seized, which seemed like the obvious cause, but nothing changed after we had it replaced.  I'm trying to find a fuel problem, as that's the only other thing that might explain it, as far as I know.

Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA


On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 10:55 AM Thomas Peacock <peacock8491@...> wrote:
This is question without a definitive answer. 
We also have the TMD22. When we bought our boat (about 4 years used), we could get almost 3,000 rpm at max throttle. Our local diesel guy suggested cruising at 80% of max, or 2,400. Our max started to lessen within about a year. 
Ever since then, we have usually not been able to max out at 3,000. Usually max is 2,400 to 2,600, so we cruise at 80% of that.
Issues affecting max cruise rpm include bottom, prop (even one barnacle can make a difference), turbo condition, and countless others. 
I suppose that, just like me, the Volvo has also lost a little mojo as it has aged. 

Tom Peacock
SM 240 Aletes
Chesapeake Bay

with its tiny keyboard

On Jun 25, 2020, at 10:10 AM, JOSE PRIETO <prietomd11@...> wrote:

Hello Amelians!  I am in the process of learning my boat.  The engine is a Volvo TMD22, with autoprop h6 propeller.
I found some threads here on the forum related to this topic, but none conclusive about what is the ideal cruise rpm regime, and what is the maximum rpm?  I can't get more than 2100 rpm!
 Any suggestion?

--
Jose Prieto
SV Wayag, SM 323
Currently Alicante, Spain

Ryan Meador
 

Hi Pat,

I have not tried that.  I will look into it.  There is still plenty of travel left on the throttle lever when we hit 2100 RPM, it's just that pushing it farther has no effect.  This makes me think something is preventing the engine from turning faster, but I will check to rule out the throttle linkage.  Thanks for the tip!

Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA


On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 11:27 AM Patrick McAneny via groups.io <sailw32=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Ryan, Have tried  to manually advance the throttle. Perhaps the throttle linkage /cable may have slipped in the engine compartment. I have the TMD22a and max out at 3100 rpms with a fixed prop or my Maxprop, which gets me to 8.3 kts.
Pat
SM Shenanigans #123


-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan Meador <ryan.d.meador@...>
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jun 25, 2020 11:20 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Cruise and Max RPM #solution

We have the TMD22 with a fixed 3-blade prop (the original spare, I think).  When we first got the boat, we could rev to about 3000, and we cruised at about 2400.  This season we could only get up to about 2100 even with a freshly cleaned bottom and prop.  I discovered the turbo had seized, which seemed like the obvious cause, but nothing changed after we had it replaced.  I'm trying to find a fuel problem, as that's the only other thing that might explain it, as far as I know.

Ryan and Kelly
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA


On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 10:55 AM Thomas Peacock <peacock8491@...> wrote:
This is question without a definitive answer. 
We also have the TMD22. When we bought our boat (about 4 years used), we could get almost 3,000 rpm at max throttle. Our local diesel guy suggested cruising at 80% of max, or 2,400. Our max started to lessen within about a year. 
Ever since then, we have usually not been able to max out at 3,000. Usually max is 2,400 to 2,600, so we cruise at 80% of that.
Issues affecting max cruise rpm include bottom, prop (even one barnacle can make a difference), turbo condition, and countless others. 
I suppose that, just like me, the Volvo has also lost a little mojo as it has aged. 

Tom Peacock
SM 240 Aletes
Chesapeake Bay

with its tiny keyboard

On Jun 25, 2020, at 10:10 AM, JOSE PRIETO <prietomd11@...> wrote:

Hello Amelians!  I am in the process of learning my boat.  The engine is a Volvo TMD22, with autoprop h6 propeller.
I found some threads here on the forum related to this topic, but none conclusive about what is the ideal cruise rpm regime, and what is the maximum rpm?  I can't get more than 2100 rpm!
 Any suggestion?

--
Jose Prieto
SV Wayag, SM 323
Currently Alicante, Spain

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi, the proper max rpm under load for the TMD 22 Volvo as installed in the Amel SM is 2800. ( no load 4500) The turbo has what is called a waste gate which automatically controls the amount of exhaust gas going through the turbo as rpm increases. If this is stuck closed (will happen) the motor will rev much higher, even up to 4000 rpm and beyond. This is caused by over turbo pressure into the engine which will cause damage to the pistons and rings which in turn will reduce the power the motor can develop and result in lower revs and the need for either an overhaul or replacement. 

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 26 June 2020 at 02:10 JOSE PRIETO <prietomd11@...> wrote:

Hello Amelians!  I am in the process of learning my boat.  The engine is a Volvo TMD22, with autoprop h6 propeller.
I found some threads here on the forum related to this topic, but none conclusive about what is the ideal cruise rpm regime, and what is the maximum rpm?  I can't get more than 2100 rpm!
 Any suggestion?

--
Jose Prieto
SV Wayag, SM 323
Currently Alicante, Spain

JOSE PRIETO
 

Thank you all for your opinions!  

Unbelievable the possibility of a bad propeller dimensioning by Amel!
--
Jose Prieto
SV Wayag, SM 323
Currently Alicante, Spain

karkauai
 

Hi Jose,
Congratulations on your new Amel, and welcome to the Amel family.

If you search this forum you will find several threads about this problem.  I had a TMD22 on Kristy, SM243 that I bought in 2009 when she had 3000 hours of engine time.. I could only get her up to 22-2300 rpm. I spent thousands trying to get the rpm up to 3000. All mechanics said the engine was fine, except for the fact that the turbo was fouled and had to be replaced, repaired, and replaced again in the first 3000 hours (A result of running at low rpm).They all thought it was over-propped.  I told them that it was the original H6 prop and the original fixed spare prop supplied by Amel.  When I called Brunton (AutoProp company), they told me it was what they recommend for a SM with 100HP Yanmar. When I asked Amel about it, they said they sold SMs with the same prop for both engines, and said that it worked fine with the TMD22.

Clean hull and prop, if all seems OK except the rpms, service the prop first. Even if the blades spin freely, others have said that servicing the prop solved the problem.
If that doesn't solve it, check the engine for common problems. Fuel, Air, compression, valve lash, turbo function, exhaust elbow constriction...
If everything checks out OK, consider trying your fixed spare prop, if it still won't get up to 3000rpm, have that prop checked by a good prop shop with your boat's specs and see what they think about its size and pitch for your boat. I was told that my spare prop was also significantly over pitched and oversized.  I had it cut down and repitched to their recommendations.  Voila! 3000rpm.  The Auto Prop of 1999 vintage could not be altered, so I bought a MaxProp and have been very happy with it for 6 years. When I repowered a year later, I was able to repitch the MaxProp for the new 110HP Yanmar 4JH4HTE.

Good luck and let us know what you find.
Kent
SM 243
Kristy

On Jun 25, 2020 10:10 AM, JOSE PRIETO <prietomd11@...> wrote:
Hello Amelians!  I am in the process of learning my boat.  The engine is a Volvo TMD22, with autoprop h6 propeller.
I found some threads here on the forum related to this topic, but none conclusive about what is the ideal cruise rpm regime, and what is the maximum rpm?  I can't get more than 2100 rpm!
 Any suggestion?

--
Jose Prieto
SV Wayag, SM 323
Currently Alicante, Spain
Q me s me

jlm@jlmertz.fr
 

Hello

For those who wish to put a much more powerful engine check (with AMEL)  the compatibility with the bevel gear (sail drive) which can then be largely undersized ....

CottonBay

SM316


Le 26/06/2020 à 13:08, karkauai via groups.io a écrit :
Hi Jose,
Congratulations on your new Amel, and welcome to the Amel family.

If you search this forum you will find several threads about this problem.  I had a TMD22 on Kristy, SM243 that I bought in 2009 when she had 3000 hours of engine time.. I could only get her up to 22-2300 rpm. I spent thousands trying to get the rpm up to 3000. All mechanics said the engine was fine, except for the fact that the turbo was fouled and had to be replaced, repaired, and replaced again in the first 3000 hours (A result of running at low rpm).They all thought it was over-propped.  I told them that it was the original H6 prop and the original fixed spare prop supplied by Amel.  When I called Brunton (AutoProp company), they told me it was what they recommend for a SM with 100HP Yanmar. When I asked Amel about it, they said they sold SMs with the same prop for both engines, and said that it worked fine with the TMD22.

Clean hull and prop, if all seems OK except the rpms, service the prop first. Even if the blades spin freely, others have said that servicing the prop solved the problem.
If that doesn't solve it, check the engine for common problems. Fuel, Air, compression, valve lash, turbo function, exhaust elbow constriction...
If everything checks out OK, consider trying your fixed spare prop, if it still won't get up to 3000rpm, have that prop checked by a good prop shop with your boat's specs and see what they think about its size and pitch for your boat. I was told that my spare prop was also significantly over pitched and oversized.  I had it cut down and repitched to their recommendations.  Voila! 3000rpm.  The Auto Prop of 1999 vintage could not be altered, so I bought a MaxProp and have been very happy with it for 6 years. When I repowered a year later, I was able to repitch the MaxProp for the new 110HP Yanmar 4JH4HTE.

Good luck and let us know what you find.
Kent
SM 243
Kristy

On Jun 25, 2020 10:10 AM, JOSE PRIETO <prietomd11@...> wrote:
Hello Amelians!  I am in the process of learning my boat.  The engine is a Volvo TMD22, with autoprop h6 propeller.
I found some threads here on the forum related to this topic, but none conclusive about what is the ideal cruise rpm regime, and what is the maximum rpm?  I can't get more than 2100 rpm!
 Any suggestion?

--
Jose Prieto
SV Wayag, SM 323
Currently Alicante, Spain
Q me s me

Gary Wells
 

Hi :)
I'm seeing a lot of good advice here and just wanted to pipe in with our experience as well.
The H6 is a pretty awesome prop and it's fairly bullet proof.
As mentioned, if you can get it to a service place they can pretty much rebuild and perfect is (I have a recommendation in the VA/MD area if you need it.
When I sent my prop in for service, it was after a couple of other refurbishments, including re-burnishing the bearing races.  Once we got the races replaced it was a smoother run.  The tech said the prop was still in great shape overall and that it shouldn't need to be replaced for 10 or 12 more years.  

On the RPM subject, at full throttle we get about 2700-2800 rpm when things are all clean and smooth .. note that if the boat is stationary .. as in stuck in a sandbar .. (another story ...) then our motor will reach 3,000 rpm. So, boat speed and the H6 are joined a bit.
One "test" is maybe be going 2 or 3 knots then slip it into reverse gear and go full throttle .. you know, like when that bozo in the bathtub tacks in front of you?  
When the prop goes full flat, I think that's when you can see Max rpm. 

I'm a bit contrary on the 80% number, maybe just cause I'm stingy.. but we will normally cruise (like, if we have a day or two of solid motoring) at a lower rpm to conserve fuel.  Every boat is different, and we have a very "experienced" TMD22b (6500hrs) so I baby it a lot.
1800-1900rpm is our normal cruise with 1750 being a "max econ" giving us around 6kts at 4lph.  We do the periodic run ups, but if you're at full operating temp our motor seems pretty happy to cruise along at about 65% or so with good mileage and no oil usage.  

Gary W.
SM 209, Adagio
Cape Charles, VA USA

Denis Foster
 

Hello,

Has anyone heard of a refit using the Yanmar 4LHTE 110HP that is a bigger engine (3.5L) probably with more torque to handle big props?
Although not sure dimensions fit.

Denis
Madinina Ex Meltem#32

Envoyé de mon iPhone

karkauai
 

I repowered SM 243 with the Yanmar 4JH4HTE 110HP. It fit nicely with only requirement new shims for alignment and cutting away small semicircle of the angle iron support to allow for the oil filter.  It is a basic Diesel without all the fancy electronics that make them hard to work on.
Do check with Amel about your C-drive to make sure it is of the newer, more robust vintage. If older vintage it might not handle the higher horsepower.

Kent and Iris
SM 243
Kristy

On Jun 26, 2020 9:31 AM, Denis Foster <deniswfoster@...> wrote:

Hello,

Has anyone heard of a refit using the Yanmar 4LHTE 110HP that is a bigger engine (3.5L) probably with more torque to handle big props?
Although not sure dimensions fit.

Denis
Madinina Ex Meltem#32

Envoyé de mon iPhone



eric freedman
 

hi,
how about a 4jh4hte also110hp.
eric
sm376 kimberlite

On June 26, 2020 at 9:31 AM Denis Foster <deniswfoster@...> wrote:


Hello,

Has anyone heard of a refit using the Yanmar 4LHTE 110HP that is a bigger engine (3.5L) probably with more torque to handle big props?
Although not sure dimensions fit.

Denis
Madinina Ex Meltem#32

Envoyé de mon iPhone