Topics

“Default” anchor arrangement on an Amel 54

Arno Luijten
 

Dear Forum,

I am aware this is a never ending discussion but is it just me or is the standard anchor arrangement on an Amel 54 (Delta on port side, Buegel on starbord side) not the greatest?
Specifically the Buegel anchor sits quite poorly on the bow, I think. Just to entertain myself I decided to swap the two anchors over to see how that would fit. I noticed the Delta sat much better on the starboard side and the Buegel still sat poorly on the port side. I still need to swap the rollers to see if that makes a difference.
I accept the argument dat the Buegel is a better anchor then the Delta, although many boats carry a Delta anchor.
So my question is what did my fellow A54 owners do to improve the situation at the bow, if anything.
I'm considering to buy a Spade anchor to replace the Buegel anchor.

The other thing I noticed is that this fancy swivel is a pain to remove. In my case all the locking screws are impossible to remove, even after heating the thing. These screws are so small that you will wreck an allen-key if you put some force to it (and yes I do use proper allen-keys). In the end I also had to drill out the chain-locking pin as it also was completely seized and would not budge. Very disappointing. I'm going to replace this with a more rugged model (Kong or Mantus).

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121

amelforme
 

Hello Arno and any discussion of anchors is highly subjective. Rather like discussing the best hunting dogs, sports cars or

( you name it ). I always like to listen carefully to my Amel clients who are selling and not buying another serious cruising boats when they rate and contrast specific equipment they have used. WHY? All the ego is gone, they have no need to rationalize or justify any past decision and what they do provide is, generally, just pure factual data, albeit filtered through their particular experiences.

 

That said, I have never had anyone, ever, say anything negative about a Mantus anchor. I have resold hundreds of Amel boats and the Mantus anchor is the only individual item that has never received a thumbs down. I am sure that this too will eventually change. Has anyone had experiences with a Mantus that would keep them from buying another?

 

On my own Amel 54 that I owned years ago, the Delta was pretty useless and the Buegel was better but not by a great margin. For any of you that get the BOAT U.S. magazine, my previous Amel 54 HOLLIS is on the cover this month. That and $7 will get me a latte at Starbucks…

 

Have Fun With Your Amel! Joel

 

          JOEL F. POTTER-CRUISING YACHT SPECIALIST~L.L.C.

                                           THE  EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY

UNSURPASSED AMEL MARKETING EXPERIENCE AND PRODUCT KNOWLEDGE

                                   Office 954-462-5869  Cell 954-812-2485

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Arno Luijten
Sent: Friday, August 9, 2019 3:39 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] “Default” anchor arrangement on an Amel 54

 

Dear Forum,

I am aware this is a never ending discussion but is it just me or is the standard anchor arrangement on an Amel 54 (Delta on port side, Buegel on starbord side) not the greatest?
Specifically the Buegel anchor sits quite poorly on the bow, I think. Just to entertain myself I decided to swap the two anchors over to see how that would fit. I noticed the Delta sat much better on the starboard side and the Buegel still sat poorly on the port side. I still need to swap the rollers to see if that makes a difference.
I accept the argument dat the Buegel is a better anchor then the Delta, although many boats carry a Delta anchor.
So my question is what did my fellow A54 owners do to improve the situation at the bow, if anything.
I'm considering to buy a Spade anchor to replace the Buegel anchor.

The other thing I noticed is that this fancy swivel is a pain to remove. In my case all the locking screws are impossible to remove, even after heating the thing. These screws are so small that you will wreck an allen-key if you put some force to it (and yes I do use proper allen-keys). In the end I also had to drill out the chain-locking pin as it also was completely seized and would not budge. Very disappointing. I'm going to replace this with a more rugged model (Kong or Mantus).

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121

Germain Jean-Pierre
 

Hi everyone,

We have a 35KG ULTRA.  In 4 years of anchoring, it has never dragged.  We also purchased their swivel and claw.  The swivel enables the anchor to enter the chocks right side up.  Being SS, it adds a nice artistic touch to your bow and a bigger hole in your wallet… :-)

If I had a 54/55 instead of an SM, I’d probably go to their 45KG unit.   

Shared opinion above.  :-)

Jean-Pierre Germain, Eleuthera, SM007, Fiji.

On 10 Aug 2019, at 07:38, Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:

Dear Forum,

I am aware this is a never ending discussion but is it just me or is the standard anchor arrangement on an Amel 54 (Delta on port side, Buegel on starbord side) not the greatest?
Specifically the Buegel anchor sits quite poorly on the bow, I think. Just to entertain myself I decided to swap the two anchors over to see how that would fit. I noticed the Delta sat much better on the starboard side and the Buegel still sat poorly on the port side. I still need to swap the rollers to see if that makes a difference.
I accept the argument dat the Buegel is a better anchor then the Delta, although many boats carry a Delta anchor.
So my question is what did my fellow A54 owners do to improve the situation at the bow, if anything.
I'm considering to buy a Spade anchor to replace the Buegel anchor.

The other thing I noticed is that this fancy swivel is a pain to remove. In my case all the locking screws are impossible to remove, even after heating the thing. These screws are so small that you will wreck an allen-key if you put some force to it (and yes I do use proper allen-keys). In the end I also had to drill out the chain-locking pin as it also was completely seized and would not budge. Very disappointing. I'm going to replace this with a more rugged model (Kong or Mantus).

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121

Craig Briggs
 

Hey Joel,
Since you asked, we bent the shank on our Mantus about 20° lifting it out of the muck in Lake Worth after a night of big winds and a 180° current shift. We had just bought it and with no questions asked they immediately sent us a new shank at, of course, no cost. (Some cool Mantus T-shirts, too!) That being said, I would definitely buy another one - never had a better anchor for virtually all conditions.
Beers, Craig SN68

Matt Salatino
 

Just for fun, try NO swivel. 
We did as an experiment, finding it unnecessary

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Aug 9, 2019, at 3:38 PM, Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:

Dear Forum,

I am aware this is a never ending discussion but is it just me or is the standard anchor arrangement on an Amel 54 (Delta on port side, Buegel on starbord side) not the greatest?
Specifically the Buegel anchor sits quite poorly on the bow, I think. Just to entertain myself I decided to swap the two anchors over to see how that would fit. I noticed the Delta sat much better on the starboard side and the Buegel still sat poorly on the port side. I still need to swap the rollers to see if that makes a difference.
I accept the argument dat the Buegel is a better anchor then the Delta, although many boats carry a Delta anchor.
So my question is what did my fellow A54 owners do to improve the situation at the bow, if anything.
I'm considering to buy a Spade anchor to replace the Buegel anchor.

The other thing I noticed is that this fancy swivel is a pain to remove. In my case all the locking screws are impossible to remove, even after heating the thing. These screws are so small that you will wreck an allen-key if you put some force to it (and yes I do use proper allen-keys). In the end I also had to drill out the chain-locking pin as it also was completely seized and would not budge. Very disappointing. I'm going to replace this with a more rugged model (Kong or Mantus).

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121

Matt Salatino
 

Mantis is good. Only 2 negatives. The shank is prone to bending. It is thinner than competition’s. 
You’re depending on the integrity of 4 bolts to keep you anchored. A worry. 
Mantis JUST introduced a new model, sans roll bar, that doesn’t depend on bolts. A better design. 

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Aug 9, 2019, at 4:13 PM, amelforme <jfpottercys@...> wrote:

Hello Arno and any discussion of anchors is highly subjective. Rather like discussing the best hunting dogs, sports cars or

( you name it ). I always like to listen carefully to my Amel clients who are selling and not buying another serious cruising boats when they rate and contrast specific equipment they have used. WHY? All the ego is gone, they have no need to rationalize or justify any past decision and what they do provide is, generally, just pure factual data, albeit filtered through their particular experiences.

 

That said, I have never had anyone, ever, say anything negative about a Mantus anchor. I have resold hundreds of Amel boats and the Mantus anchor is the only individual item that has never received a thumbs down. I am sure that this too will eventually change. Has anyone had experiences with a Mantus that would keep them from buying another?

 

On my own Amel 54 that I owned years ago, the Delta was pretty useless and the Buegel was better but not by a great margin. For any of you that get the BOAT U.S. magazine, my previous Amel 54 HOLLIS is on the cover this month. That and $7 will get me a latte at Starbucks…

 

Have Fun With Your Amel! Joel

 

          JOEL F. POTTER-CRUISING YACHT SPECIALIST~L.L.C.

                                           THE  EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY

UNSURPASSED AMEL MARKETING EXPERIENCE AND PRODUCT KNOWLEDGE

                                   Office 954-462-5869  Cell 954-812-2485

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Arno Luijten
Sent: Friday, August 9, 2019 3:39 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] “Default” anchor arrangement on an Amel 54

 

Dear Forum,

I am aware this is a never ending discussion but is it just me or is the standard anchor arrangement on an Amel 54 (Delta on port side, Buegel on starbord side) not the greatest?
Specifically the Buegel anchor sits quite poorly on the bow, I think. Just to entertain myself I decided to swap the two anchors over to see how that would fit. I noticed the Delta sat much better on the starboard side and the Buegel still sat poorly on the port side. I still need to swap the rollers to see if that makes a difference.
I accept the argument dat the Buegel is a better anchor then the Delta, although many boats carry a Delta anchor.
So my question is what did my fellow A54 owners do to improve the situation at the bow, if anything.
I'm considering to buy a Spade anchor to replace the Buegel anchor.

The other thing I noticed is that this fancy swivel is a pain to remove. In my case all the locking screws are impossible to remove, even after heating the thing. These screws are so small that you will wreck an allen-key if you put some force to it (and yes I do use proper allen-keys). In the end I also had to drill out the chain-locking pin as it also was completely seized and would not budge. Very disappointing. I'm going to replace this with a more rugged model (Kong or Mantus).

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121

amelforme
 

Probably snagged a Los Angeles class attack submarine…

 

Best to Katherine.

 

          JOEL F. POTTER-CRUISING YACHT SPECIALIST~L.L.C.

                                           THE  EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY

UNSURPASSED AMEL MARKETING EXPERIENCE AND PRODUCT KNOWLEDGE

                                   Office 954-462-5869  Cell 954-812-2485

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Craig Briggs via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, August 9, 2019 5:16 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] “Default” anchor arrangement on an Amel 54

 

Hey Joel,
Since you asked, we bent the shank on our Mantus about 20° lifting it out of the muck in Lake Worth after a night of big winds and a 180° current shift. We had just bought it and with no questions asked they immediately sent us a new shank at, of course, no cost. (Some cool Mantus T-shirts, too!) That being said, I would definitely buy another one - never had a better anchor for virtually all conditions.
Beers, Craig SN68

Ian
 

Just another bit of experience.
The shaft on my Spade anchor bent. It is easily replaceable, but it is hollow ( part of the design to keep lots of weight in the lead filled tip). I’m using a Rocna now - I’d put them pretty equal on setting and holding.
But this season I changed my chain over end to end. As I started to undo the hex bolt the whole thing fell apart. The top of s/s hex bolt head had turned to a black carbon looking substance and could have fallen apart anytime (photo attached). Don’t know what caused this, but I’ve removed the swivel now and returned to a seized shackle that I can keep an eye on.

It is a Kong swivel. If you are still using one I suggest a new hex bolt once a year.

Ian
Ocean Hobo SN96

Mohammad Shirloo
 

Hi Arno;

In 5 seasons of sailing in the Med (about 5 months each) and mostly anchoring in many different condition and bottoms with the Amel supplied Buegel,  we only dragged once, that we know of or could notice ( about 30 meters).

I believe the performance of all anchors depends largely on how they are set. A factor that is hard to quantify. We have been pleased with the performance our buegel, until now.

Respectfully;


Mohammad & Aty
B&B Kokomo
Amel 54 #099

On Aug 9, 2019, at 11:22 PM, Matt Salatino via Groups.Io <helmsmatt@...> wrote:

Just for fun, try NO swivel. 
We did as an experiment, finding it unnecessary

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Aug 9, 2019, at 3:38 PM, Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:

Dear Forum,

I am aware this is a never ending discussion but is it just me or is the standard anchor arrangement on an Amel 54 (Delta on port side, Buegel on starbord side) not the greatest?
Specifically the Buegel anchor sits quite poorly on the bow, I think. Just to entertain myself I decided to swap the two anchors over to see how that would fit. I noticed the Delta sat much better on the starboard side and the Buegel still sat poorly on the port side. I still need to swap the rollers to see if that makes a difference.
I accept the argument dat the Buegel is a better anchor then the Delta, although many boats carry a Delta anchor.
So my question is what did my fellow A54 owners do to improve the situation at the bow, if anything.
I'm considering to buy a Spade anchor to replace the Buegel anchor.

The other thing I noticed is that this fancy swivel is a pain to remove. In my case all the locking screws are impossible to remove, even after heating the thing. These screws are so small that you will wreck an allen-key if you put some force to it (and yes I do use proper allen-keys). In the end I also had to drill out the chain-locking pin as it also was completely seized and would not budge. Very disappointing. I'm going to replace this with a more rugged model (Kong or Mantus).

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121

ianjenkins1946 <ianjudyjenkins@hotmail.com>
 

Hi All,

 I have never been a fan of anchor swivels, having seen them come apart on other boats. If I were to fit one I would buy it from a commercial fisherman's chandlery and make it oversize.

 However, in place of a swivel we have always used two shackles in tandem between the chain and our  stainless Spade. This has always resulted in the Spade turning the right way up as it enters the bow roller. 
 The shackles are easy undo  to inspect. We have two stainless shackles with flush heads screwed in with an Allen key. 

Queries have been raised about the attachment of a stainless anchor or shackles to galvanised chain--does this give rise to electrolysis ?  The only answer I can give is that in nearly 20 years we have seen no sign.

 Ian and Judy, Pen Azen, SM 302 Greece


From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...>
Sent: 10 August 2019 07:32
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] “Default” anchor arrangement on an Amel 54
 
Hi Arno;

In 5 seasons of sailing in the Med (about 5 months each) and mostly anchoring in many different condition and bottoms with the Amel supplied Buegel,  we only dragged once, that we know of or could notice ( about 30 meters).

I believe the performance of all anchors depends largely on how they are set. A factor that is hard to quantify. We have been pleased with the performance our buegel, until now.

Respectfully;


Mohammad & Aty
B&B Kokomo
Amel 54 #099

On Aug 9, 2019, at 11:22 PM, Matt Salatino via Groups.Io <helmsmatt@...> wrote:

Just for fun, try NO swivel. 
We did as an experiment, finding it unnecessary

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Aug 9, 2019, at 3:38 PM, Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:

Dear Forum,

I am aware this is a never ending discussion but is it just me or is the standard anchor arrangement on an Amel 54 (Delta on port side, Buegel on starbord side) not the greatest?
Specifically the Buegel anchor sits quite poorly on the bow, I think. Just to entertain myself I decided to swap the two anchors over to see how that would fit. I noticed the Delta sat much better on the starboard side and the Buegel still sat poorly on the port side. I still need to swap the rollers to see if that makes a difference.
I accept the argument dat the Buegel is a better anchor then the Delta, although many boats carry a Delta anchor.
So my question is what did my fellow A54 owners do to improve the situation at the bow, if anything.
I'm considering to buy a Spade anchor to replace the Buegel anchor.

The other thing I noticed is that this fancy swivel is a pain to remove. In my case all the locking screws are impossible to remove, even after heating the thing. These screws are so small that you will wreck an allen-key if you put some force to it (and yes I do use proper allen-keys). In the end I also had to drill out the chain-locking pin as it also was completely seized and would not budge. Very disappointing. I'm going to replace this with a more rugged model (Kong or Mantus).

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121

Matt Salatino
 

Not all stainless reel is equal. 316 is much more corrosion resistant than 304. It’s difficult to find 316 bolts and nuts.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Aug 10, 2019, at 3:07 AM, Ian <parkianj@...> wrote:

Just another bit of experience.
The shaft on my Spade anchor bent. It is easily replaceable, but it is hollow ( part of the design to keep lots of weight in the lead filled tip). I’m using a Rocna now - I’d put them pretty equal on setting and holding.
But this season I changed my chain over end to end. As I started to undo the hex bolt the whole thing fell apart. The top of s/s hex bolt head had turned to a black carbon looking substance and could have fallen apart anytime (photo attached). Don’t know what caused this, but I’ve removed the swivel now and returned to a seized shackle that I can keep an eye on.

It is a Kong swivel. If you are still using one I suggest a new hex bolt once a year.

Ian
Ocean Hobo SN96



<image1.jpeg>

Mark & Debbie Mueller
 

The primary anchor on our A54 is a 33kg Rocna.  This anchor was installed on the boat when we purchased it.  The Rocna has set first time every time for us and the prior owner had literally been around the world with this anchor.  The galvanizing is worn off the tip and it is slightly rusty and I would not trade it for anything unless it was a 40 kg Rocna.

 

We did change the anchor swivel to a Mantus, I believe the manner the Mantus swivel connects to the chain spreads the load more evenly and is much more secure.  The neck of the swivel that was supplied by Amel had bent at some point presumably during a sideways pull.


--
Mark Mueller
Brass Ring  A54

ngtnewington Newington
 

On Amelia I have demoted the Beugel to port side second anchor and now have a Spade 160 as the main anchor. Note that on the starboard side I have installed an extra roller to keep the chain from dragging over the stainless pulpit fitting.
This set up is really snug and fits well. 
The Delta 40kg is now in the Lazarette locker with an aluminium Fortress anchor. 

Nick
Amelia AML54-019
Sailing the Ionian


On 10 Aug 2019, at 17:28, Mark & Debbie Mueller <brass.ring@...> wrote:

The primary anchor on our A54 is a 33kg Rocna.  This anchor was installed on the boat when we purchased it.  The Rocna has set first time every time for us and the prior owner had literally been around the world with this anchor.  The galvanizing is worn off the tip and it is slightly rusty and I would not trade it for anything unless it was a 40 kg Rocna.

 

We did change the anchor swivel to a Mantus, I believe the manner the Mantus swivel connects to the chain spreads the load more evenly and is much more secure.  The neck of the swivel that was supplied by Amel had bent at some point presumably during a sideways pull.


--
Mark Mueller
Brass Ring  A54

Arno Luijten
 

Hi Nick,

Thanks for your reply. Great to see an Amel that actually uses the Spade. Your additional roller is very clever, it seems to really improve things.
I did notice the Buegel sitting not too great on the port side and is fouling the middle part where the snubber line goes when at anchor.

Yesterday I was reading some copies of anchor tests that Spade has on its website. No surprise the Spade came out best but what I found more interesting that the Delta also outperforms the Buegel in several of the tests. I really struggle with the reasoning that Amel selected the Buegel for all those years. To me it seems the surface of the anchor is quite small compared to other anchors in the same class. Although the surface area of the anchor alone does not make a good anchor it is quite important once the anchor has set.

So how do you like the Spade?

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121

ngtnewington Newington
 

Hi Arno, 
I have only been using the Spade a couple of weeks. So far so good. Actually last night we anchored at Kalamos in a rather exposed place and it kicked up 25kn with several miles fetch. We were stern to the shore in 15m but I had 70m out. We left in the morning and that Spade was quite hard to break out.  The stern line never went slack.
In my opinion the Spade is a vast improvement on the Beugel, not just the design but 20% heavier.
As for the Beugel I have to agree with you. Firstly it has a poor surface area, secondly it will not keep burying, and thirdly 30kg is undersized for a 54 ft 20 ton boat.
On the plus side it generally always went in with that sharp point and it is still a good anchor.
I think Amel should either up the size or shift to a more modern anchor be or a Rocna, or Spade, or Mantus whatever....
Nick
Amelia 
Anchored stern to Kioni 
AML54-019
 


On 12 Aug 2019, at 15:49, Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:

Hi Nick,

Thanks for your reply. Great to see an Amel that actually uses the Spade. Your additional roller is very clever, it seems to really improve things.
I did notice the Buegel sitting not too great on the port side and is fouling the middle part where the snubber line goes when at anchor.

Yesterday I was reading some copies of anchor tests that Spade has on its website. No surprise the Spade came out best but what I found more interesting that the Delta also outperforms the Buegel in several of the tests. I really struggle with the reasoning that Amel selected the Buegel for all those years. To me it seems the surface of the anchor is quite small compared to other anchors in the same class. Although the surface area of the anchor alone does not make a good anchor it is quite important once the anchor has set.

So how do you like the Spade?

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121

 

All,

Opinions:
We all have opinions, but few of us, if any, have compiled scientific data comparing anchors. This thread is full of opinions without the preface, "in my opinion."

Here is a bit of data
Wasi was the first with the "dragon tooth" "roll bar" design that other anchor manufacturers knocked off (copied). The "others" I refer to are well known manufacturers, who will publicly argue that they were not influenced by Wasi. My opinion: Ha!☺

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970



On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 11:01 AM ngtnewington Newington via Groups.Io <ngtnewington=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Arno, 
I have only been using the Spade a couple of weeks. So far so good. Actually last night we anchored at Kalamos in a rather exposed place and it kicked up 25kn with several miles fetch. We were stern to the shore in 15m but I had 70m out. We left in the morning and that Spade was quite hard to break out.  The stern line never went slack.
In my opinion the Spade is a vast improvement on the Beugel, not just the design but 20% heavier.
As for the Beugel I have to agree with you. Firstly it has a poor surface area, secondly it will not keep burying, and thirdly 30kg is undersized for a 54 ft 20 ton boat.
On the plus side it generally always went in with that sharp point and it is still a good anchor.
I think Amel should either up the size or shift to a more modern anchor be or a Rocna, or Spade, or Mantus whatever....
Nick
Amelia 
Anchored stern to Kioni 
AML54-019
 


On 12 Aug 2019, at 15:49, Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:

Hi Nick,

Thanks for your reply. Great to see an Amel that actually uses the Spade. Your additional roller is very clever, it seems to really improve things.
I did notice the Buegel sitting not too great on the port side and is fouling the middle part where the snubber line goes when at anchor.

Yesterday I was reading some copies of anchor tests that Spade has on its website. No surprise the Spade came out best but what I found more interesting that the Delta also outperforms the Buegel in several of the tests. I really struggle with the reasoning that Amel selected the Buegel for all those years. To me it seems the surface of the anchor is quite small compared to other anchors in the same class. Although the surface area of the anchor alone does not make a good anchor it is quite important once the anchor has set.

So how do you like the Spade?

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121

Arno Luijten
 

Hi Bill,

Not meant to annoy you but if you do not read forum postings with with your "opinion glasses" on there is hardly any forum you can read/participate. On the is specifi topic, getting facts about anchor behavior is close to impossible as there are so many variables at play. Even the "so called"objective anchor tests are quite synthetic and often show results that seem to be strange at least. Only if you see consistent problems with whatever anchor model across tests and peoples experiences you can assume there is some flaw in the design.

This being said I read it was actually John Bruce (Bruce anchor) that first came with the idea of a roll bar, although he never put it in practice. It is also a well known argument that Bruce anchors are among the best but they do not scale very well and although many drilling platforms rely on the design, it's performance is mediocre in the 15-50 kg range.

But my question was not about the holding capabilities of the Buegel. My problem with the anchor is that it sits poorly on the bow of a 54.
My own experience using the anchor is very limited and from what I read seems to concur with other experiences that the anchor does not like weed on the bottom but works fine in sand/mud.

Regards,

Arno
Cheers,

Arno


So Buegel may claim this rollbar fame, but it's a shared fame.

 

Arno,

My opinion of the Beugel is very good. My experience with the Beugel was very good with only one anchor failure, which was not the fault of the anchor. My experience includes many areas of the world, 40,000 miles, 58 countries, and uncounted anchorages over 11 years. The remainder of my experience included all sorts of anchors and sizes of vessels. That said, it is only my experience and no 2 experiences are identical. 

"Dragon Tooth" is a term for an anchor design begun by Wasi. Wasi combined "Dragon Tooth" with the "Roll Bar." Following Wasi, several well known anchor manufacturers used this same general design. I have limited experience with the Wasi copies, but my opinion is that they are just as good...not better and not worse.

In my opinion, coupled with lots of prejudice from experiences, correct anchoring technique will properly set almost any anchor and secure the vessel. And, in my experience, a good anchor doesn't make up for incorrect technique. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970



On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 2:33 PM Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:
Hi Bill,

Not meant to annoy you but if you do not read forum postings with with your "opinion glasses" on there is hardly any forum you can read/participate. On the is specifi topic, getting facts about anchor behavior is close to impossible as there are so many variables at play. Even the "so called"objective anchor tests are quite synthetic and often show results that seem to be strange at least. Only if you see consistent problems with whatever anchor model across tests and peoples experiences you can assume there is some flaw in the design.

This being said I read it was actually John Bruce (Bruce anchor) that first came with the idea of a roll bar, although he never put it in practice. It is also a well known argument that Bruce anchors are among the best but they do not scale very well and although many drilling platforms rely on the design, it's performance is mediocre in the 15-50 kg range.

But my question was not about the holding capabilities of the Buegel. My problem with the anchor is that it sits poorly on the bow of a 54.
My own experience using the anchor is very limited and from what I read seems to concur with other experiences that the anchor does not like weed on the bottom but works fine in sand/mud.

Regards,

Arno
Cheers,

Arno


So Buegel may claim this rollbar fame, but it's a shared fame.