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File /disk brake A54 slipping shaky.mov uploaded


 

Ralph,

I saw your uploaded video.

I believe that either the nut circled in the below photo is loose, or the caliper frame next to the hydraulic ram is broken.
image.png

The caliper you have is no longer available and replaced by the same manufacturer with this one:
image.png

Contact SAV@...

Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 11:20 AM main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io> wrote:

The following files have been uploaded to the Files area of the main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io group.

By: ralph.heilig

Description:
A54 #144 disk brake is shaky, slipping in 6 kts +,


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Ralph Heilig
 
Edited

Thank you Bill for your feedback!

I have ordered new brake pads from Maud. I also sent the video and waiting for a feedback.

I wanted to remove the whole brake but I have NO experience with hydraulics. Do I need a specialist for the hydraulic line to remove and remount? My fear is, if I decouple the hydraulic line from the braker I will lose hydraulic oil and air will get into the system. Also the two screws, that hold the brake on the bar look pretty hard to access.

So until now I could not evaluate the reason for the shaking. It is hard to find a marine mechanic in Italy with hydraulic disk brake know how....something very special.

Ralph


Courtney Gorman
 

If the pads are not pressing enough A short-term fix is to place a quarter or similar coin where the ram press is to engage the brakes this will stop your shaft from spinning while Sailing and get rid of the irritating noise


On Aug 2, 2020, at 1:28 PM, Ralph Heilig <ralph.heilig@...> wrote:



[Edited Message Follows]

Thank you Bill for your feedback!

I have ordered new brake pads from Maud. I also sent the video and waiting for a feedback.

I wanted to remove the whole brake but I have NO experience with hydraulics. Do I need a specialist for the hydraulic line to remove and remount? My fear is, if I decouple the hydraulic line from the braker I will lose hydraulic oil and air will get into the system. Also the two screws, that hold the brake on the bar look pretty hard to access.

So until now I could not evaluate the reason for the shaking. It is hard to find a marine mechanic in Italy with hydraulic disk brake know how....something very special.

Ralph


 

Ralph,

I can explain the hydraulic part to you. The brake release hydraulic cylinder gets the hydraulic fluid and pressure from the ZF Hurth reversing transmission mounted on the main engine output. There is a bleed screw on the cylinder that you cannot miss. You will want to bleed all air from the cylinder, replacing lost fluid by adding it to the ZF Hurth reversing transmission. Probably any engine mechanic will have no problem helping you. 

I would be surprised if Maud helps you diagnose your problem from the video. One more issue is that the last time one of my clients tried to order the style brake pads that you have, he was told by Amel that these are no longer available and the only thing my client could do is order the entire new brake unit (photo in my previous email). This new brake unit does not fit exactly the same pattern as the older one, so there are some minor modifications needed to install the new one, again an engine mechanic will be able to help. 

I looked at the video again. I believe that there is something mechanically wrong and it has nothing to do with hydraulics, or worn brake shoes (which look good in the video). Possibly you would see the problem if you removed the bolt circled in the photo below. Maybe it is something simple.
image.png
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 12:28 PM Ralph Heilig <ralph.heilig@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Thank you Bill for your feedback!

I have ordered new brake pads from Maud. I also sent the video and waiting for a feedback.

I wanted to remove the whole brake but I have NO experience with hydraulics. Do I need a specialist for the hydraulic line to remove and remount? My fear is, if I decouple the hydraulic line from the braker I will lose hydraulic oil and air will get into the system. Also the two screws, that hold the brake on the bar look pretty hard to access.

So until now I could not evaluate the reason for the shaking. It is hard to find a marine mechanic in Italy with hydraulic disk brake know how....something very special.

Ralph


Porter McRoberts
 

We epoxied in a washer.  Great service for 10k NM. Don’t see a reason to change. 
Porter
Ibis 54-152


On Aug 2, 2020, at 4:38 PM, Courtney Gorman via groups.io <Itsfun1@...> wrote:

If the pads are not pressing enough A short-term fix is to place a quarter or similar coin where the ram press is to engage the brakes this will stop your shaft from spinning while Sailing and get rid of the irritating noise


On Aug 2, 2020, at 1:28 PM, Ralph Heilig <ralph.heilig@...> wrote:



[Edited Message Follows]

Thank you Bill for your feedback!

I have ordered new brake pads from Maud. I also sent the video and waiting for a feedback.

I wanted to remove the whole brake but I have NO experience with hydraulics. Do I need a specialist for the hydraulic line to remove and remount? My fear is, if I decouple the hydraulic line from the braker I will lose hydraulic oil and air will get into the system. Also the two screws, that hold the brake on the bar look pretty hard to access.

So until now I could not evaluate the reason for the shaking. It is hard to find a marine mechanic in Italy with hydraulic disk brake know how....something very special.

Ralph


Ralph Heilig
 

Thank's Bill, Courtney, Porter,

it realy looks like something is broken. Maud already shipped the new brake pads, which I will change anyhow when I remove the brake (picture below). I hope to get them this week and then next week demount the brake and inspect.

The tip's with the coin or washer are great, but in my case, when you watch the video, there seems to be something broken. I don't think that's normal, that you can move the whole brake like this. The video was made with the engine NOT running and the ram out at max 60mm.

Ralph
Santa Isabella, A54, #144


 

Ralph,

It is possible to damage your Volvo engine or Reversing ZF Hurth Transmission if you run the engine with the brake engaged. If the brake is dragging when the engine is running, it is best to remove it now.

Good luck.
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 11:57 PM Ralph Heilig <ralph.heilig@...> wrote:
Thank's Bill, Courtney, Porter,

it realy looks like something is broken. Maud already shipped the new brake pads, which I will change anyhow when I remove the brake (picture below). I hope to get them this week and then next week demount the brake and inspect.

The tip's with the coin or washer are great, but in my case, when you watch the video, there seems to be something broken. I don't think that's normal, that you can move the whole brake like this. The video was made with the engine NOT running and the ram out at max 60mm.

Ralph
Santa Isabella, A54, #144


Ralph Heilig
 

Thank You Bill,

but when the engine is running, the brake is not engaging and the ram is pressed in.

I got the pads from Amel today and will be on the boat on Thursday. I will let you know what I found.

Ralph


Ralph Heilig
 
Edited

Here the feedback of the source of my shaky (no more working) brake problem.




The primary source was the aluminum bolt between the holding screw and the caliper. As you can see, the bolt is worn on the caliper arm, that holds all the weigth of the brake system.  Also the holes of this caliper arm are expanded / outworn (short before cracking). The outer arm of the caliper is fine. Also no damage on the bolt. 

A friend of mine  had the same problem. His AMEL 54 is nearly the same age as mine (2009).

Amel was very helpful and they send me the new caliper now. The new model already discussed here in the forum.

I hope it fit's into my caliper holding.

So it looks like it's something that will come up earlier or later on all 54's, since the aluminium bolt is not designed (or underdimensioned) to hold the weight of the braksystem a livetime....

I have 1.700 engine hours.

Ralph
AMEL 54, #144


 

The bushing is what wore out first, then the worn bushing caused the holes in the caliper to wear. 
image.png

The bolt you mentioned retains the bushing in place:
image.png

I am very surprised at this bushing wear. I would suggest that other SM and 54 owners inspect this bushing.


CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 12:00 PM Ralph Heilig <ralph.heilig@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Here the feedback of the source of my shaky (no more working) brake problem.




The primary source was the aluminum bolt between the holding screw and the caliper. As you can see, the bolt is worn on the caliper arm, that holds all the weigth of the brake system.  Also the holes of this caliper arm are expanded / outworn (short before cracking). The outer arm of the caliper is fine. Also no damage on the bolt. 

A friend of mine  had the same problem. His AMEL 54 is nearly the same age as mine (2009).

Amel was very helpful and they send me the new caliper now. The new model already discussed here in the forum.

I hope it fit's into my caliper holding.

So it looks like it's something that will come up earlier or later on all 54's, since the aluminium bolt is not designed (or underdimensioned) to hold the weight of the braksystem a livetime....

I have 1.700 engine hours.

Ralph
AMEL 54, #144


Ralph Heilig
 
Edited

sorry for my english, i meant the bushing when I wrote bolt. And I meant the bolt when I wrote screw.

the bolt (screw) is perfect. Also the other caliper arm is ok. the bushing is only worn where it hold the weight...

So here is the corrected version:

The primary source was the aluminum bushing between the holding bolt and the caliper. As you can see, the bushing is worn on the caliper arm, that holds all the weigth of the brake system.  Also the holes of this caliper arm are expanded / outworn (short before cracking). The outer arm of the caliper is fine. Also no damage on the bushing where it holds the outer arm. 


Ralph Heilig
 

There is a simple test if the bushing is ok. Just try to move the whole brakecylinder up (as in my video). If you can move it up 1or 2 cm like in my video, it look's like the bushing is worn. If you cant move it, all should be fine. I could move mine very easy with 2 fingers.


 

Ralph,

No need to apologize. I was adding clarity for other owners who probably need to check this.

Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 12:42 PM Ralph Heilig <ralph.heilig@...> wrote:
sorry for my english, i meant the bushing when I wrote bolt. And I meant the bolt when I wrote screw.

the bolt (screw) is perfect. Also the other caliper arm is ok. the bushing is only worn where it hold the weight...


Ralph Heilig
 

I installed the new caliper and it fit's pretty well. Thanks to SAV AMEL.

I have written a short replacement procedure instruction. I attach it as PDF. I'm sure some more will need to replace the old Twiflex caliper by a Coremo caliper over the years....


 

Ralph,

Well done. Good job.
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Wed, Aug 12, 2020 at 3:12 PM Ralph Heilig <ralph.heilig@...> wrote:
I installed the new caliper and it fit's pretty well. Thanks to SAV AMEL.

I have written a short replacement procedure instruction. I attach it as PDF. I'm sure some more will need to replace the old Twiflex caliper by a Coremo caliper over the years....