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Genoa Swivel - position + binding connection to the genoa top loop - Amel 54


Stefan Schaufert
 

Dear Ameliens,

I got a new front furler and have to hoist the genoa again.
When I prepaired the genoa loops I got the feeling that the Swivel respectively the lower part is in the wrong position.
At least it looks like. The stainless steel protection/ cover blocks the 2 grooves and the hole for the binding connection is on the opposite side.
Unfortunately I did not took pictures from taking down the genoa. But I know that the genoa was in the left one of the 2 grooves. The lonely front groove seems to be also possible but the threading point is much to high.
Probably I am wrong. 
My questions:
1. Is the position of the lower Swivel part right?
2. Do you have a picture with the right binding (hole on front, loop on back of the foil is not ideal - thus the binding has to go around the foil)?
3. What is the purpose of the stainless steel protection/ cover?
4. Inside the protection is a „mouse clip“. What is it for?

Thx a lot for your help.

Stefan, Lady Charlyette, Amel 54 119, Le Marin


 

Before I answer, is your 54 rigged for twin headsails with two poles (ballooner)?


CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 8:55 AM Stefan Schaufert <mail@...> wrote:
Dear Ameliens,

I got a new front furler and have to hoist the genoa again.
When I prepaired the genoa loops I got the feeling that the Swivel respectively the lower part is in the wrong position.
At least it looks like. The stainless steel protection/ cover blocks the 2 grooves and the hole for the binding connection is on the opposite side.
Unfortunately I did not took pictures from taking down the genoa. But I know that the genoa was in the left one of the 2 grooves. The lonely front groove seems to be also possible but the threading point is much to high.
Probably I am wrong. 
My questions:
1. Is the position of the lower Swivel part right?
2. Do you have a picture with the right binding (hole on front, loop on back of the foil is not ideal - thus the binding has to go around the foil)?
3. What is the purpose of the stainless steel protection/ cover?
4. Inside the protection is a „mouse clip“. What is it for?

Thx a lot for your help.

Stefan, Lady Charlyette, Amel 54 119, Le Marin


Stefan Schaufert
 

Dear Bill,

no, it has 1 pole.
Ballooner/ gennaker is separate furled in front of the genoa.
But I like the possibility to have 2 genoa in the foil (butterfly)  - very good experiences on my previous catamaran.
And the genoa was attached in the left of the 2 grooves.

Best regards
Stefan
Amel 54 119 Lady Charlyette, currently Le Marin


Arno Luijten
 

Hi,

Relax, the furler swivel is just as it should be.

To enlighten you, the swivel is developed to fly two headsails simultaneously. Actually the Genua and the Ballooner (that is wat Amel calls it). If you look carefully you should notice three grooves in the foil.
This setup is created for what is called "Tradewind sailing", two headsails, no main, downwind sailing. It starts with a poled out Genua to one side (I'm not sure which side). Next you hoist the ballooner using a plastic "mouse" at the top of the sail in the second groove. The mouse has a hook to it to connect the second halyard to. The two ends of the halyard need to be connected to each other as well, making it an endless loop. When the ballooner is up it latches inside the stainless "protection". Once it's latched you can pull the halyard out the hook in the plastic mouse. Using the second whisker-pole to pole-out the ballooner to the other side.
If you now need to reduce sail because of a rain-squall or whatever, you can furl both sails together without getting the second halyard tangled.

If you need to get the balooner down again there is a white color mouse that looks a bit different from the one on the ballooner. By hoisting this in the third groove you will release the latch that holds the ballooner up and you will be able to retrieve the sail. The ballooner sail is a little bit like a Code-0 sail.

So the genua goes into the single groove in the foil on opposite of the two grooves that are next to each other.

Standard Amel supplied the 54 (with ballooner option) with 4 mouse-sliders, two of each type and one of those connected to the top of the ballooner-sail.

Regards,

Arno Luijten,
SV Luna,
A54-121

PS Be very careful to remove the stainless "protector" from the swivel as the bolts tend to be frozen solid in the aluminum swivel. I had to drill one out on our boat.


 

Ok, how many slots on your foil? 1, 2, or 3?

Best,

CW Bill Rouse 
Amel Owners Yacht School
+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com 
Yacht School Calendar: www.preparetocastoff.blogspot.com/p/calendar.html


   

On Thu, May 28, 2020, 5:04 PM Stefan Schaufert <mail@...> wrote:
Dear Bill,

no, it has 1 pole.
Ballooner/ gennaker is separate furled in front of the genoa.
But I like the possibility to have 2 genoa in the foil (butterfly)  - very good experiences on my previous catamaran.
And the genoa was attached in the left of the 2 grooves.

Best regards
Stefan
Amel 54 119 Lady Charlyette, currently Le Marin


Stefan Schaufert
 

2 +1 = 3 in sum 

Best regards
Stefan

Amel 54 119 Lady Charlyette, currently Le Marin


 

OK, I believe you are trying to raise the genoa on the wrong slot. The genoa goes into the isolated single slot. The other two slots which are close together are used by the Amel twin pole system. It is possible that your swivel and foil are also rigged with a tongue guide on the swivel. I am not sure what you have, but the aluminum tongue looks like this:

image.png

Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 8:27 PM Stefan Schaufert <mail@...> wrote:
2 +1 = 3 in sum 

Best regards
Stefan

Amel 54 119 Lady Charlyette, currently Le Marin


Arno Luijten
 

To add to Bill's remark, the Ballooner and the Gennaker are NOT the same sails. I believe the Ballooner to be a bit less "baggy" compared to the Gennaker. This enables it to be furled together with the Genua.
When you look at Bill's picture you can see the latching mouse needs to go to the right slot (relative to the view of picture) and the releasing mouse is hoisted in the left slot (again relative to the picture).

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Stefan Schaufert
 

Dear Arno, dear Bill,

thx a lot for your fast response, help and explanations.
Seems that I had the wrong memories, despite I am only 50 years old ;-))
Now I have a better picture for the purpose of the 2 grooves. My Amel is not equipped to use them.

I will hoist the genoa in the single slot and everything is fine again.

Best regards
Stefan
Amel 54 119 Lady Charlyette, last day in Le Marin


Laurens Vos
 

Hi Arno,

You mean that on can rise and lower the ballooner separate from the genoa ? Which mean that when the genoa is up and flying. 
On our Mango we used the ballooner on ocean crossings but we used the same halyard so needed to rise and bring them down together. 
I only can't figure out how the way you describe it. 

Best regards
Laurens 

Amel 54 - Fun@Sea 



 

Laurens,

Very few 54s had the second pole + ballooner option, although I believe all of the 54s had the genoa foil and swivel needed for the twin pole/ballooner.

This video of a SM may help you visualize the system. The 54 poles are full length rather than 2-part SM poles. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqNF1ggKGRw

Bill
image.jpeg
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
image.png
image.png
 
image.png
View My Training Calendar
image.jpeg


On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 3:19 AM Laurens Vos <laurensrineke@...> wrote:
Hi Arno,

You mean that on can rise and lower the ballooner separate from the genoa ? Which mean that when the genoa is up and flying. 
On our Mango we used the ballooner on ocean crossings but we used the same halyard so needed to rise and bring them down together. 
I only can't figure out how the way you describe it. 

Best regards
Laurens 

Amel 54 - Fun@Sea 



Laurens Vos
 

Bill,

Thanks for the link to the video. Now I got a good idea how the system works. 
Very smart solution !  I didn't know this existed.
It's a shame we don't have the split poles anymore on the 54 because that was very easy system to set up. 
On our 54 we now use the Parasailor. But for a short handed crew I think the genoa/ballooner system is safer because it can be rolled in a second in case of a squall (specially at night)
Drawback with the twin sails is the rolling of the boat and the necessity to sail almost dead downwind.