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Have any of you looked at the Integral System?


Justin Maguire
 

All - 

in our collective efforts to be more off-grid, and to simplify our already complex boats the Integral System (introduced to me by Matt Salatino) seems interesting /  promising albeit expensive. Following the conversation around lithium from you all over the last month has made me realize the number of nuances around this newer tech that i really need to "go to school" on :) 

Anyway.. i'm curious if any of you have looked at this and what your conclusions/thoughts are on it. Certainly having Nigel Calder back it bodes well. Not having a second engine to care for, combined with the premise that this will load the engine appropriately in ways that won't damage it even at idle is very cool... 

Cheers, 
-Justin  


Brent Cameron
 

John Harries over at Morgan’s Cloud did a pretty good analysis of the issues surrounding this concept.  I don’t agree with everything John posts but he’s generally right and always puts a lot of thought into his articles.   After more than 5 years, I gave up my subscription to them this year for some reason so can’t go back and see the articles (he did a two or three part series on it) but the net of it was that it significantly reduced the redundancy in the system, didn’t really lower the cost, and put more stress on the one component you really need when you need it (your main engine).  I thought it was really well done and came away with the impression that while Nigel’s heart was in the right place, it was far too complicated to ever be retrofitted to an Amel and would take away a lot of the benefits we already have on it given that we already have much of the redundancies in place already.  Perhaps one of the existing subscribers to Morgan’s Cloud could do a better synopsis….   

Net is there is no such thing as a free lunch - going to 48V doesn’t reduce the load on the system as P=VI.  This system says it can run 8.3KW.  That’s a hell of a lot of a load to hang off a belt driven pulley that imposes significant side loading on the crankshaft.  The Onan generators on Amel’s certainly don’t try that.  They have all of the thrust mounted shaft to shaft longitudinally like your C-Drive  - AND they still recommend replacing the thrust bearings on a regular basis as noted in a recent post..

Here’s the teaser on it.  https://www.morganscloud.com/2019/02/13/nigel-calders-generator-replacement-machine-part-1-what-you-need-to-know/

Brent

On Feb 17, 2021, 11:15 AM -0500, Justin Maguire <justin_maguire@...>, wrote:
All - 

in our collective efforts to be more off-grid, and to simplify our already complex boats the Integral System (introduced to me by Matt Salatino) seems interesting /  promising albeit expensive. Following the conversation around lithium from you all over the last month has made me realize the number of nuances around this newer tech that i really need to "go to school" on :) 

Anyway.. i'm curious if any of you have looked at this and what your conclusions/thoughts are on it. Certainly having Nigel Calder back it bodes well. Not having a second engine to care for, combined with the premise that this will load the engine appropriately in ways that won't damage it even at idle is very cool... 

Cheers, 
-Justin  

--
Brent Cameron

Future Amel Owner & Amel Owner Registry Moderator

Oro-Medonte, Ontario, Canada


Bill Kinney
 

Justin,

We just recently did a lot of research on power generation since we were replacing our old Onan, and this system was in the mix of options we considered. We quickly dropped it off the list when the full cost of the installation became clear. I also agree with Brent that the complexity of the system, and especially the complexity of a retro fit into an existing boat, is very high.

There are a wide variety of competing, even conflicting, needs when selecting an alternative energy system, and it is very rare than any two users (even on the same kind of boat!) will come to exactly the same answer.  To me, this system seemed to make a lot of sense for a motor yacht that spent a significant portion of it time underway. For a sailboat that spends most of its time at anchor, or sailing, I was hard pressed to understand the benefits.  Certainly in terms of overall fuel usage, generating routine house power loads with a 100 HP engine will never be as efficient a use of fuel as a much smaller engine, turning a properly sized generator--unless the 100HP motor is being used anyway, and for us that is relatively rare.

For us, and the way we use our boat, we felt there were much better, cheaper, easier to implement, paths to reliable and efficient power generation.  Other people will come to other conclusions.


Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Charleston, SC, USA


Elja Röllinghoff Balu SM 222
 

He Bill

i was also interested in two integral systems.
one of Betamarians, and Intergal's
the cost of plumbing installation was approximately 20000.00.
The problem I see shouldn't be running the diesel you're out of.
A 9-11 KW generator costs about 1,000.00
and you have two electricity systems.

best Elja
SM Baloo
222

Von meinem iPhone gesendet


 

I checked with Beta. The Beta 85 with the add-on generator is about 45,000 installed, and the warranty on the generator requires that you send the generator to the generator manufacturer.

Not a Good Solution.


CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
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On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 2:17 PM Elja Röllinghoff Balu SM 222 <Bijorka@...> wrote:
He Bill

i was also interested in two integral systems.
one of Betamarians, and Intergal's
the cost of plumbing installation was approximately 20000.00.
The problem I see shouldn't be running the diesel you're out of.
A 9-11 KW generator costs about 1,000.00
and you have two electricity systems.

best Elja
SM Baloo
222

Von meinem iPhone gesendet