Heaving to a Ketch
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Paul Harries
Would appreciate your collective wisdom on optimal technique for heaving to with a Ketch in foul weather.
With thanks -- Paul Harries Prospective Amel Buyer |
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Backwind your stailsail or reefed Jenny and set your Mizzen pretty easy and straight forward
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Cheers 🍻 Courtney 54#10 Trippin Isle de Saintes On Jan 10, 2023, at 1:01 PM, Paul Harries via groups.io <Pharries@...> wrote:
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Trevor Lusty
Paul,
I have done it many times just as Courtney describes, but never in storm conditions. Usually I was alone, tired, and or hungry. Sometimes, when it was a bit lumpy and someone was below cooking or using the head. Often, If I had closed a strange landfall at night I would simply stand off and doze in the cockpit until daylight. I found it was never an exact science for me and always there was a certain amount of fore reaching. It was another reason that I came to love a ketch rig, the variations are endless. Best regards, Trevor |
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Paul Harries
I feel inadequate in that I have only experienced really foul weather once;-force 9 off Gibralatar 30 years ago with heavy seas, we ran and still got pooped.
I have obviously practiced heaving to in non severe weather, but feel it inadequate practice for an emergency situation as the balance of theany boat will change as wind increases. Today I watched an interesting video on the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SAXRH42Df0 Three comments really hit me: 1) As wind increases, then due to windage to heave to more sail will be required aft and less forward, with a ketch this might mean a small amount of mizzen only! I am interested in what really happens with an Amel ketch in heavy seas! 2) The speaker was very much against drogues preferring a sea anchor, I certainly get his point about lack of attachment points at the stern (unless you own Kimberlite) ,I do wonder whether the center cockpit design of Amels might change the pros and cons of a drogue relative to a sea anchor 3) Rudder control lines; never heard about using them on an Amel, would be interested in comments. I have previously read the several posts on the forum regarding drogues on the forum including the following: https://amelyachtowners.groups.io/g/main/topic/29753208#66831 https://amelyachtowners.groups.io/g/main/topic/89831255#62587 I have partially Heavy weather sailing by Peter Bruce and Storm Tactics Handbook by Pardey I have ordered the following book: Drag Device Data Base by Victor Shane, it would be interesting though to have a database of how Amels perform with drogues and sea anchors. I am sure this subject is of interest to all forum members, perhaps it might be a good subject for a forum meeting. Paul Harries Prospective Amel Buyer |
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As others, we have hove to a number of times with Elyse using staysail and mizzen in big seas and winds of 60 knots or so, the peace and stability is amazing. It takes a while to get it set up right so we don't fore reach too much, and every situation is different and requires tuning to the circumstances.
We have a Shark drogue on board but have never used it in serious weather, only in practice. I'm a bit dubious of using a drogue and the running off technique...attachment points are a big concern, we would use the genoa sheet winches and run the long bridle out through the aft mooring cleats, with plenty of chafe protection. The other concern is retrieving it...it's not easy, even in mild conditions, without a trip line, and trip lines have a tendency to get tangled...so we don't have one. Heaving to is great ! I thoroughly reccomend it. Practice it in mild conditons so you get a feel for it and then practice again in stronger weather and you'll be prepared. Cheers Alan Elyse SM437 |
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Hi Paul, I've hove-to several times in 40-50 kts and 10-15ft seas. Three times in one passage when we sailed from Antigua to the Chesapeake in April when COVID restrictions took effect. As a general rule, you heave-to with the same sail configuration you would be using to sail in those cobditions. Normally heaving to is described as sailing slowly, slightly upwind at a 30-45° angle to the wind, stalling out and falling off, then sailing slowly again. When you do that the boat sails out of the slick that it creates upwind as it drifts downwind. Waves still break into the side of the boat, and it is an uncomfortable way to ride out a storm. In those conditions, I had about 5-6feet of the Genoa foot out and backwinded, and about 4 ft of mizzen out WITH THE MIZZEN TRAVELER ALL THE WAY TO WINDWARD. In that configuration the boat slides directly downwind, perpendicular to the wind. Waves break forward and aft of the slick and boat, but not on the side of the boat. On that trip from Antigua to MD, we were hove-to for a total of 7 days, and only one small wave slapped the side of the boat. The motion was comfortable and we were able to sleep, read, and even cook while we waited for the wind to come around. When I've hove-to in the past, without the mizzen traveler all the way to windward, I sailed out of the slick and got slammed pretty often.
Hope that helps. -- Kent & Iris KRISTY
SM243 |
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Gerhard Mueller
With the Sharki I am sailing I take down the mizzen and main sail and roll in the genua even until a small triangel is left. It depends also how the angle of waves is. Be careful when the boat is running down the wave montain and it is too fast. The next wave crest will swap over the boat.
-- Gerhard Mueller Amel Sharki #60 Currently North Sea, Germany |
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Kent, Interested in your
comment about the position of the mizzen traveler. I
understand the position of the traveler, but what about the
boom itself? Where is the boom? Are you pulling it to the
windward side of the boat? I ask, since I have
always positioned the boom at the centerline of the boat when
hove to. With best regards,
Mark
Skipper Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff
On 1/10/2023 3:02 PM, karkauai via
groups.io wrote:
Hi Paul, I've hove-to several times in 40-50 kts and 10-15ft seas. Three times in one passage when we sailed from Antigua to the Chesapeake in April when COVID restrictions took effect. As a general rule, you heave-to with the same sail configuration you would be using to sail in those cobditions. Normally heaving to is described as sailing slowly, slightly upwind at a 30-45° angle to the wind, stalling out and falling off, then sailing slowly again. When you do that the boat sails out of the slick that it creates upwind as it drifts downwind. Waves still break into the side of the boat, and it is an uncomfortable way to ride out a storm. In those conditions, I had about 5-6feet of the Genoa foot out and backwinded, and about 4 ft of mizzen out WITH THE MIZZEN TRAVELER ALL THE WAY TO WINDWARD. In that configuration the boat slides directly downwind, perpendicular to the wind. Waves break forward and aft of the slick and boat, but not on the side of the boat. On that trip from Antigua to MD, we were hove-to for a total of 7 days, and only one small wave slapped the side of the boat. The motion was comfortable and we were able to sleep, read, and even cook while we waited for the wind to come around. When I've hove-to in the past, without the mizzen traveler all the way to windward, I sailed out of the slick and got slammed pretty often. |
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Hi Mark,
Yes the mizzen boom is upwind as well. That effectively stops the forward movement of the boat. -- Kent & Iris KRISTY
SM243
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I should also say that in bigger seas, say 20+ft, I would probably run rather than heave-to. I assume that there is a limit to the size waves that are effected by the slick to windward, but I don't know where that limit is.
-- Kent & Iris KRISTY
SM243 |
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Eric Freedman
I would have to disagree with him. The Jordan series drogue is the only device that was tested in a wave tank by the Coast Guard and passed. This is us in a hurricane 100+ knot winds and 60 foot breaking waves, Also look at the link in the story. The video shows a Swan about 150 miles east of us rescued by the coast guard- the skipper died.
https://oceannavigator.com/prepare-for-survival-conditions/
Fair Winds Eric Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io On Behalf Of Paul Harries via groups.io
I feel inadequate in that I have only experienced really foul weather once;-force 9 off Gibralatar 30 years ago with heavy seas, we ran and still got pooped. |
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Bruno COTTE
After more than 40 000 m plus sailing around the world I never faced such situations since the 1970’s . Today with satellite and SSB Communications systems we have enough data from different weather forecast sources in order never to be in such bad weather situations . In the last 20 years the maximum wind we had was 40 kt with 50 kt gusts and 30 ft waves …. And with our Amel and our 2 pilots it was not a problem . I think today there is 0 risk to face a hurricane if you sail safely . of course you can face sometimes in channels some crazy winds like 80kt plus of Bora in Croatian islands but the sea is never more than 1 meter or 2 so it is not a real problem . The big storm of 120 kt in Corsica last summer never brought more than 5 meters waves after the strongest wind passage so except if you were at anchor this was not a problem . In the Indian Ocean you can face sometimes difficult conditions but always manageable . In the North Atlantic Ocean you must anticipate the low pressures passage when you come back to Europe from West Indies but it is again very clear with weather forecasts . From Pasqua islands to Hawaii there is no difficulties in the pacific same as South Africa if you are reasonable with timing of crossing weather forecasts and current . If bad weather stay in harbour and wait for a good window .
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So don’t be afraid by such crazy situations it is no more for us if you are reasonable . When I was young I had the opportunity to face big storms without modern autopilots or floating anchors systems etc … I prefer to keep all this in memory and continue to sail safely around the world . Enjoy your navigations and don’t worry Envoyé de mon iPhone Le 12 janv. 2023 à 22:28, Eric Freedman <kimberlite.ef@...> a écrit :
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I agree with Bruno, except there is always a chance something will go wrong. In 2011 we sailed through the Bay of Bengal on our way to Sri Lanka from Thailand. Unknown to us and the other 20-30 sailboats on this passage was the fact that the US weather satellite was malfunctioning. To make matters worse NOAA decided to port the EU satellite information into the NOAA master file that all services rely on. The porting didn't work right and about halfway on this 1000 mile passage we found ourselves in a Cyclone. All of the people arrived in Sri Lanka, but one Beneteau sank. The 3 men were rescued by a commercial ship. We sailed counterclockwise until we were able to get into about 35kt winds and hove-to for about 30 hours. Since we were previous sloop sailors we hove-to with reefed main and reefed Genoa. We drifted at about 2kts during the 30 hours and it was generally in a good direction. All weather information we received during this period showed favorable winds 15-20kts. The only real failure on our SM was the anchor chain sensor. I believe it failed because the windlass was underwater a considerable amount of time. I am really glad that I was careful to seal the windlass case and buttons on the top of the windlass. A few months later I sold the unused ATN Gale sail. That's another story. Best, CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School +1 832-380-4970 | brouse@... 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com Yacht School Calendar: www.preparetocastoff.blogspot.com/p/calendar.html On Fri, Jan 13, 2023, 00:59 Bruno COTTE <cotte.bruno@...> wrote:
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After backing the jib the sheet under load is to windward. How does one prevent this control sheet from chafing on the shrouds?
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It is an issue that you need to solve. Either chafing protection over the sheet, on the shrouds or re-routing the genoa sheet. Bill
On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 3:10 PM Hanoah <sailhanoah@...> wrote: After backing the jib the sheet under load is to windward. How does one prevent this control sheet from chafing on the shrouds? |
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Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
Hi, We have put 20mm PVC tube on the forward shroud. Undo the turn buckle and thread it on. It goes from the turnbuckle upto where the frame for the pole fitting is. Perfect protection. Nice and simple. Could be done on all the mainmast shrouds.
Kind regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl
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