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HELP! AYOG - NZ & AUS - Bow Thruster Torque-tube Removal Tool
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David Vogel
Hi all,
After many days effort over two haul-outs, I really do need some extra help. Does anyone in AUS or NZ have one of those special tools - either made up, or from AMEL - for facilitating the removal of the torque-tube from the electric bow-thruster motor (copy image attached), for temporary loan. I will order one from AMEL. However, in the interim, getting one made up here in NZ is proving problematic, as all the shops are busy out to January. Still trying that avenue, but not hopeful. Thanks, in anticipation, to anyone who is willing and able to help. David SM#396, svPerigee in extremis with bow-thruster problems, Marsden Cove Marina New Zealand +++ BACKGROUND As a consequence of a (COVID induced) extended service-interval, the torque down-tube of my bow-thruster is stuck in the iron-base of the bow-thuster motor. The matter has been complicated by one of the four hex-head bolts rounding out, and then the head of that bolt breaking off when using the so-called "easy out". I have subsequently been able, using cobalt drill bits (3.5mm, 5.5mm, and 8.0mm) in a right-angle drill head, to drill out the whole recess area, and remove the errant bolt. Then, with the aid of a quite scary 1.0m iron tube (pictured - "the Encourager") fitting over the end of a 520mm chain wrench, I have (yesterday) been able to obtain some rotation of the electric motor relative the the fixed torque tube. Doing this is not for the faint hearted. But even with this limited success, I have not been able to get the tube to separate from the motor base. BTW, using the extension bar and chain wrench did require removing the torque-plate that is fitted to the bottom of the electric motor - a relatively easy job in the scheme of these things, but dissembling things like this does create extra stress for me (I ask myself, "where does it stop?"). This problem is one of humongous proportions, and thusly seeking the assistance of the AMEL-owners' cohort. |
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Wrap some rope around the shaft to protect it and use a pipe wrench to give it a quick sharp minor turn (you'll need to brace the motor with something). You just need to give it a little pop. When you put it back,
coat the inserted end with a good amount of Never Seez
and you'll not have any more issues or need the tool.
With best regards,
Mark
Skipper Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275 Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia
On 10/26/2022 2:16 PM, David Vogel
wrote:
Hi all, After many days effort over two haul-outs, I really do need some extra help. Does anyone in AUS or NZ have one of those special tools - either made up, or from AMEL - for facilitating the removal of the torque-tube from the electric bow-thruster motor (copy image attached), for temporary loan. I will order one from AMEL. However, in the interim, getting one made up here in NZ is proving problematic, as all the shops are busy out to January. Still trying that avenue, but not hopeful. Thanks, in anticipation, to anyone who is willing and able to help. David SM#396, svPerigee in extremis with bow-thruster problems, Marsden Cove Marina New Zealand +++ BACKGROUND As a consequence of a (COVID induced) extended service-interval, the torque down-tube of my bow-thruster is stuck in the iron-base of the bow-thuster motor. The matter has been complicated by one of the four hex-head bolts rounding out, and then the head of that bolt breaking off when using the so-called "easy out". I have subsequently been able, using cobalt drill bits (3.5mm, 5.5mm, and 8.0mm) in a right-angle drill head, to drill out the whole recess area, and remove the errant bolt. Then, with the aid of a quite scary 1.0m iron tube (pictured - "the Encourager") fitting over the end of a 520mm chain wrench, I have (yesterday) been able to obtain some rotation of the electric motor relative the the fixed torque tube. Doing this is not for the faint hearted. But even with this limited success, I have not been able to get the tube to separate from the motor base. BTW, using the extension bar and chain wrench did require removing the torque-plate that is fitted to the bottom of the electric motor - a relatively easy job in the scheme of these things, but dissembling things like this does create extra stress for me (I ask myself, "where does it stop?"). This problem is one of humongous proportions, and thusly seeking the assistance of the AMEL-owners' cohort. |
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David Vogel
Thanks Mark.
OK, cancel that request! Success, the bow-thruster is out!! Method: Using the chain-wrench and it's 1m extension, I repeatedly rotated the motor assembly back and forth through about 70º either side of the nominal position. I did this for about two hours, applying copious amounts of PB Blaster. At the end of this, I could use the chain-wrench without the extension to rotate the the motor assembly. I did not use short-sharp forces at any time ("primum non nocere"; firstly, do no harm). However, at the end of this, I was still unable to get any downward movement on the torque-tube. I then lowered the BT partially and, using a line secured to the vessel tie-downs at the bow, tied the bow-thruster down in a partially extended down position - trying to keep everything in-train (in-line). And then, raised the bow-thruster a little using the normal raising mechanism, just enough so that there was some tension on the tube-motor interface, but not overly straining the raising mechanism. And then, using the chain-wrench on the bottom of the motor (again, not needing the extension), repeatedly twisted the motor assembly about the tube, again, about 70º each way, applying liberal amounts of PB blaster. Finally, some downward motion on the torque-tube. In about 1-1/2 hours of incrementally re-tensioning the tie-down, raising the bowthruster a little, twisting the motor assembly, I ended up with the bow-thruster separating completely from the motor assembly. Once the holes for the securing bolts were visible, the last 5mm happened suddenly. (I had placed a hose-clamp around the torque-tube, as you would do if in the water to prevent the BT falling out and sinking to the bottom; as well, I ran an extra line from the BT up to the deck to prevent the BT falling all the way to the ground, in the event that the hose-clamp should fail to do it's job. But the hose-clamp held fine, even though the torque-tube was well slippery with PB blaster. I had the hose-clamp placed around the bolts that secure the threaded brass inner to the fiberglass torque-tube, and really tightened it up.) Will be looking for that BOSTIK Never Seez - no-one here has heard of it. Any known alternatives? Thanks. David SM#396, Perigee MCM, NZ |
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Mike Longcor (SV Trilogy)
Nice work David! We had a very similar experience when we bought our boat in 2017. No sheared bolts but separating the motor and tube was a tremendous effort -- rotation and downward force eventually worked for us too (plus all the blood sweat and tears). We use Tef-Gel on reassembly and everything comes apart easily 2 years later. In NZ I know you can get Lanocoat and Duralac, which should both do the trick. The first time we got it separated, we treated the whole motor base with CorrosionX (also available in NZ). It has always looked great since -- we check often in case of seawater leaks. Cheers, Mike Longcor SV Trilogy SM23 NZ On Thu, Oct 27, 2022, 12:13 AM David Vogel <david.vogel@...> wrote: Thanks Mark. |
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Michael Winand
Well done, Michael Nebo sm251 On Thu, 27 Oct 2022, 4:29 pm Mike Longcor (SV Trilogy), <svtrilogy53@...> wrote:
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David, I am sure you know this, but others may not. When saltwater gets on the cast iron base of the motor, the cast iron rusts. Since the non-metal tube fits snuggly inside a hole about 35mm deep in the cast iron, the rust compresses the snug fit to become a super-tight fit. Since the tube is made of a GRP type product, heat should never be used. The best way to avoid this stuck tube issue is to replace the BT seals every 2 years, clean the tube connection area, use grease at the motor/tube joint, and only unpin the BT when actually using it. Best, CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School +1 832-380-4970 | brouse@... 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com Yacht School Calendar: www.preparetocastoff.blogspot.com/p/calendar.html On Wed, Oct 26, 2022, 23:13 David Vogel <david.vogel@...> wrote: Thanks Mark. |
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rossirossix4
Wow, what an endeavor!!! I used Lanocote on the spline connection for 10 years on our Santorin and 9 years on the S&M....er... rather Super Maramu with zero problems. I also coat the prop (to keep barnacles from adhering, boss, nylon screws, collar, pin with the stuff. Its always on those underwater parts when I disassemble them. With all those sheep in New Zealand you should be able to find Lanocote grease or another lanolin based product. But I am guessing that any thick grease would do the trick. https://www.westmarine.com/forespar-lanocote-corrosion-inhibitor-129975.html
Bob, KAIMI SM429 Currently servicing the bow thruster in Deltaville, VA |
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Well Done Dave!.
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Tenacity. New name for the boat perhaps! This is a case of get to know the previous owner. When and If Perigee ever sells, these are the stories that say this is a well loved, maintained boat. I’m sure Lenny would agree! -Porter A54-154 Somewhere between Tahiti and Balboa! On Oct 27, 2022, at 12:13 AM, David Vogel <david.vogel@...> wrote: |
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David Vogel
Hi all,
Glad to report that the Bowthruster was finally removed (after first starting on this job almost 12 months and 2 haul-outs ago). The BT propshaft lip-seal and 90wt oil now replaced, and a new (the non-OEM, after-market) blue silicon lipseal-and-wiper combo for the BT torque-tube (per Steve Davis & Jose Venegas) installed. There was no evidence or suggestion of issue with the gears, bearings, nor the back face-plate seal -- so, after the travails already experienced (and now running into the schedule issues ref long pre-planned electrical works), decided to leave sleeping dogs lie! At least I will be able to remove the BT in the water now. Anyway, returning to the water yesterday, we had 15-18 knot steady breeze directly abeam getting into the temporary dock, so the bow-thruster got a really good work-out bringing the bow up into the wind reversing in tight quarters -- it probably worked as hard as it ever has ever in one docking manoeuvre. A HUGE shout out of THANKS to all and sundry who have offered help and support, both in public on-forum, and behind-the-scenes via PM & personal email (and otherwise). And to each and every one of you who have ever made a contribution to the AYOG ("The Forum") on this topic. I can honestly say, that I read probably every post and email that has ever been made, and the various tricks-and-tips going back many years all came into play as, you guessed it, if there was a problem that had already been encountered by someone else, then I encountered it also during this particular exercise. As someone else said, it was the most confronting problem that had faced him is his 50+ years of boating; and words of wisdom about patience and perseverance, and words of encouragement that it will eventually break free, most important when faced with a dilemma like this. And I will now add to the many who have said this before - do your preventative maintenance of the bow-thruster torque--tube-to-electric--motor interface, and don’t let this (what happened to me) be you. The time, blood, sweat & sleepless nights, and in particular angst about breaking something that will render your boat unseaworthy, is simply not worth it. I let myself be lulled into a false sense of security that a COVID-induced 3-year service-interval would be OK, partly on the basis that AMEL MQ had done the previous service, and partly because I had not seen any visible water-ingress for the first 2-1/2 years. The lesson here is that rust or expanding corrosion in this particular location happens whether you can see it or not, and it happens to its own time-scale - so, servicing this component every 12 months (even by 'simply' in-water dropping the tube 15-20cm, and re-lubing), perhaps stretching it out to 24 months if you have known more-than-adequate corrosion control in place, is a metric derived from the hard-earned experience of many owners. Quite apart from having a boat that is seaworthy, fit-for-purpose, and designed from the keel up for maintainability, we continue to be impressed by the encouragement and support we receive from our global cohort of present and past AMEL owners. In our experience it really is something quite unique, and the value of this Forum cannot be over-stated in weighing the AMEL-factor of boat-ownership. Thanks again, and now onto the next adventures in boat maintenance and upgrades, and then (next year) some more cruising the remote South Pacific. David SM#396, Perigee In the water again Marsden Cove Marina, NZ On 27/10/2022, 5:13 pm, "David Vogel" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io on behalf of david.vogel@...> wrote: Thanks Mark. OK, cancel that request! Success, the bow-thruster is out!! Method: Using the chain-wrench and it's 1m extension, I repeatedly rotated the motor assembly back and forth through about 70º either side of the nominal position. I did this for about two hours, applying copious amounts of PB Blaster. At the end of this, I could use the chain-wrench without the extension to rotate the the motor assembly. I did not use short-sharp forces at any time ("primum non nocere"; firstly, do no harm). However, at the end of this, I was still unable to get any downward movement on the torque-tube. I then lowered the BT partially and, using a line secured to the vessel tie-downs at the bow, tied the bow-thruster down in a partially extended down position - trying to keep everything in-train (in-line). And then, raised the bow-thruster a little using the normal raising mechanism, just enough so that there was some tension on the tube-motor interface, but not overly straining the raising mechanism. And then, using the chain-wrench on the bottom of the motor (again, not needing the extension), repeatedly twisted the motor assembly about the tube, again, about 70º each way, applying liberal amounts of PB blaster. Finally, some downward motion on the torque-tube. In about 1-1/2 hours of incrementally re-tensioning the tie-down, raising the bowthruster a little, twisting the motor assembly, I ended up with the bow-thruster separating completely from the motor assembly. Once the holes for the securing bolts were visible, the last 5mm happened suddenly. (I had placed a hose-clamp around the torque-tube, as you would do if in the water to prevent the BT falling out and sinking to the bottom; as well, I ran an extra line from the BT up to the deck to prevent the BT falling all the way to the ground, in the event that the hose-clamp should fail to do it's job. But the hose-clamp held fine, even though the torque-tube was well slippery with PB blaster. I had the hose-clamp placed around the bolts that secure the threaded brass inner to the fiberglass torque-tube, and really tightened it up.) Will be looking for that BOSTIK Never Seez - no-one here has heard of it. Any known alternatives? Thanks. David SM#396, Perigee MCM, NZ |
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