Inox Chain for main anchor to be replaced - chain twist


Nick Newington
 

Hi Dean,

If you have not got to the bottom of this by the time I come out September 8 and if our paths cross, we could do some tests, like try my gypsy on your windlass, we could compare chains what ever. You could visually inspect my windlass in action….Looking at your video earlier something ain’t right. 

Nick

S/Y Amelia 
AML 54-019
Leros GR

On 16 Aug 2022, at 15:11, WASABI - Rudolf Waldispuehl <Rudolf@...> wrote:

Hi Dean
 
I confirm that on WASABI the chain deployment is without any kind of skipping at all. And when I bought WASABI there was the original gipsy 203 (ISO) with a DIN SS-Chain the former owner has installed. The A54 was new for me and I had no specific arguments about the skipping. We were able to deploy and retrieve the Anchor easily for most of the time, except after 10-20 anchor maneuvers, if the situation needed to deploy more than 50 meter. BTW this happened once in a marina with anchoring stern to a wharf as you described, the blockage occurred due to twisting.
 
Because it was cheaper to buy a new gipsy than a new chain, in installed 2 new 202 DIN766 gipsy and my 2 years old Cromox duplex is a DIN766 chain. Completely happy with the setup.
 
Happy sailing and best regards
Ruedi
SY WASABI
AMEL54 #055
 
Von: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> im Auftrag von Dean Gillies <stella@...>
Antworten an: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Datum: Dienstag, 16. August 2022 um 15:23
An: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Betreff: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Inox Chain for main anchor to be replaced - chain twist
 
Hi Thomas,
I hear you, and yes I am 100% sure.  Both of the Gypsies are stamped as 203, and both of the chains measure up as ISO standard.  If that wasn't enough evidence ... on chain retrieval both chains run absolutely perfectly ALL the time. I'm sure that would not happen if there was a mismatch, for example if my Gypsies had the incorrect part number stamped on them for example!

I agree about the inboard swivel, and actually I reckon all of us can undo and re-tie knots (er I mean bends of course!!) fairly effectively.  It just means the lovely whipping that was done in the factory is a thing of the past!

I know you are not near Garulfo, but are you confident that your chains are deploying without any kind of skipping at all?

Cheers
-- 
Dean Gillies
SV Stella *****,  Amel 54-154 



 

Chain, yes, it is easy to measure, but who can say what the tolerance is...and it will certainly need replacing because of age or corrosion before stretch or wear.

Gypsy, I don't think so, and every case where I have been asked what's wrong with the gypsy, it was either the wrong chain (DIN vs ISO) or the chain obviously needed replacement. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse 
Amel Owners Yacht School
+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com 
Yacht School Calendar: www.preparetocastoff.blogspot.com/p/calendar.html


   


On Tue, Aug 16, 2022, 10:30 Paul Harries via groups.io <Pharries=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Is there a way to check specs on gypsy and chain to see if one or other is worn or out of spec?


--
Paul Harries
Prospective Amel Buyer


Sv Garulfo
 

Hi Dean,

Looking at your picture in the pdf, it looks like the chain links are too small (as if they were DIN instead of ISO). Maybe you can measure the distance over a few links and check notes with others?

I don't understand why it should jump more on releasing than retrieving, though. However that it twists more when it jumps while releasing might be explained by the better guidance provided by the grooved roller, compared to the hause pipe. As the chain is about to slip, the links are positioned correctly (with respect to a twist) when retrieving. 


Before wintering, I fully rinsed the chain and it went in and out without any problems. 

Cheers

Thomas
GARULFO
A54-122
Vuda, Fiji 



On Tue, 16 Aug 2022, 17:40 Nick Newington via groups.io, <ngtnewington=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Dean,

If you have not got to the bottom of this by the time I come out September 8 and if our paths cross, we could do some tests, like try my gypsy on your windlass, we could compare chains what ever. You could visually inspect my windlass in action….Looking at your video earlier something ain’t right. 

Nick

S/Y Amelia 
AML 54-019
Leros GR

On 16 Aug 2022, at 15:11, WASABI - Rudolf Waldispuehl <Rudolf@...> wrote:

Hi Dean
 
I confirm that on WASABI the chain deployment is without any kind of skipping at all. And when I bought WASABI there was the original gipsy 203 (ISO) with a DIN SS-Chain the former owner has installed. The A54 was new for me and I had no specific arguments about the skipping. We were able to deploy and retrieve the Anchor easily for most of the time, except after 10-20 anchor maneuvers, if the situation needed to deploy more than 50 meter. BTW this happened once in a marina with anchoring stern to a wharf as you described, the blockage occurred due to twisting.
 
Because it was cheaper to buy a new gipsy than a new chain, in installed 2 new 202 DIN766 gipsy and my 2 years old Cromox duplex is a DIN766 chain. Completely happy with the setup.
 
Happy sailing and best regards
Ruedi
SY WASABI
AMEL54 #055
 
Von: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> im Auftrag von Dean Gillies <stella@...>
Antworten an: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Datum: Dienstag, 16. August 2022 um 15:23
An: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Betreff: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Inox Chain for main anchor to be replaced - chain twist
 
Hi Thomas,
I hear you, and yes I am 100% sure.  Both of the Gypsies are stamped as 203, and both of the chains measure up as ISO standard.  If that wasn't enough evidence ... on chain retrieval both chains run absolutely perfectly ALL the time. I'm sure that would not happen if there was a mismatch, for example if my Gypsies had the incorrect part number stamped on them for example!

I agree about the inboard swivel, and actually I reckon all of us can undo and re-tie knots (er I mean bends of course!!) fairly effectively.  It just means the lovely whipping that was done in the factory is a thing of the past!

I know you are not near Garulfo, but are you confident that your chains are deploying without any kind of skipping at all?

Cheers
-- 
Dean Gillies
SV Stella *****,  Amel 54-154 



Dean Gillies
 

Ruedi,
Thank you for the video. I am envious of your windlass performance :)

All,
I have today confirmed that both chains are ISO, 30 +/-0.5mm links, 315 +/-2mm + per 10 links.  On close inspection, I am convinced that the gypsies are correctly labelled. They are stamped with 203 (ISO) and the pockets measure up and match the ISO chain.

When I had things stripped down, I tried reversing the primary gypsy, per David's idea.  When I anchored this afternoon the performance was better.  There were a few skips for the first 6-8m then it settled down and ran smoothly.  Maybe I have a worn out gypsy (after 12 months of use).

I have also, supplied all the information about the problem to Lewmar Tech Support and asked what they recommend. In particular, would the addition of their optional Control Arm Kit solve the problem.

--
Dean Gillies
SV Stella *****,  Amel 54-154


Dean Gillies
 

Nick,
Thanks for the offer.  Regardless whether I have a solution, it would be good to catch up for a beer.
--
Dean Gillies
SV Stella *****,  Amel 54-154


Ruslan Osmonov
 

An interesting comment from UltraMarine owner. Food for thought....


Duplex is new material, but we always had warm waters. We started using 318LN in 2015 at the ULTRA Shanks because it is more robust, and you cannot bend the ULTRA Anchor shank when stuck under a rock. 

 

On the other hand, as you all bought that Duplex marketing for warmer waters, we will start selling Duplex Cromox chains next year, and you will pay more for nothing. 

 

I have been in that business for twenty years and would use 316L CROMOX on my boat and not pay extra to Duplex for nothing. That is up to you; if you want to pay extra for nothing, we can help you next year. 

 

--
Fair winds
Ruslan Osmonov
Phanthom, A54 #44


Dean Gillies
 

Hi all,
Two more videos taken after turning the gypsy upside down.

Observations:
1. The deployment is much cleaner than before.
2. In this 45 second deployment, there is only one skip/rotation which happens after 30 seconds.
3. It is clear that, on deployment, every link impacts the ridges between the pockets on the lower half of the gypsy. This would seem to create a significant amount of wear on the lower half of the gypsy. This could explain why turning the gypsy upside down improves things. The lower part of the gypsy may be worn out.
4. In the retrieval video you can see that there is a small twist in the recovered chain between the gypsy and the bow roller. This was the twist caused by the deployment sequence in the video immediately prior to the retrieval. 
5. The retrieval process does not create the same impacts to the links as the deployment.

It seems to me that there needs to be a mechanism to guide the chain more effectively and cleanly on to the gypsy during deployment.

--
Dean Gillies
SV Stella *****,  Amel 54-154


Ruslan Osmonov
 

Hi Dean, when I watch your and Ruedi videos, what immediately catches an eye is that Ruedi's chain links lay very evenly in the gypsy. take a look at screenshot below. and in your videos, chain is sticking to one (pulling) side of teeth. seems like holes are larger and that eventually kicks one link out. 


--
Fair winds
Ruslan Osmonov
Phanthom, A54 #44


Ruslan Osmonov
 

Here is the image. somehow it got cut out. 

image.png


On Wed, Aug 17, 2022 at 1:40 PM Ruslan Osmonov via groups.io <rosmonov=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Dean, when I watch your and Ruedi videos, what immediately catches an eye is that Ruedi's chain links lay very evenly in the gypsy. take a look at screenshot below. and in your videos, chain is sticking to one (pulling) side of teeth. seems like holes are larger and that eventually kicks one link out. 


--
Fair winds
Ruslan Osmonov
Phanthom, A54 #44


--
Fair winds
Ruslan Osmonov
Phanthom, A54 #44


Dean Gillies
 

Hi Ruslan,
Yes I noticed that too, also that the teeth on Ruedi's gypsy look taller than mine. However, we have to be careful because Ruedi has a DIN chain and matching gypsy. Maybe that is the reason.
--
Dean Gillies
SV Stella *****,  Amel 54-154