Topics

Insurance in Europe


Matt Salatino
 

Thanks. 
1st definitive positive feedback I’ve heard about Pantaenius USA. 

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Aug 25, 2019, at 7:22 AM, Miles <milesbid@...> wrote:

I have also had good experiences with Pantaenius, both Pantaenius US and Pantaenius Europe.  I had Pantaenius Europe from 2000 to 2008.  At that time they would cover me for anywhere in the world except in US waters.  Their rates were much lower than any US company and they had a very good reputation.  I was surprised to hear that they would not insure you.  Did they say why?  Of course my experience with them was 10 years ago.  I currently have Pantaenius USA and I have also had good experiences with them, including a large claim from a hit and run collision while I was on my mooring.

 

Regards and good luck with your insurance,

 

Miles

 

s/y Ladybug, sm216 on mooring Newport, RI


Joerg Esdorn
 

I’ve had insurance through Pantaenius US since my boat was new.  Excellent experience and excellent pricing at a little more than .5% of insured value this year.  Coverage was all of the Med, Western Black Sea and Western Europe up to Bergen and 200 miles offshore.  When I asked them to waive the exclusion for Tunesia this year, they did within a couple of days.  They added Canaries and Madeira without increasing the premium.  Im dealing with them through a very experienced insurance broker who is a sailor.  That may be one reason for the good experience....

Joerg Esdorn
A55 Kincsem #53


John Clark
 

Agree as well. 

I have had experiences with venders that was good and bad requiring explaination.   No we shouldn't wontonly black list vendors without cause, and some discussion would be enlightening to others.  

I too am with IMIS with a Jackline policy after my long-term insurance provider in the UK backed out of Caribbean basin.  Knowledgible and responsive US based insurance.  More expensive than before but so is everyone else after that bad year.  

On Sun, Aug 25, 2019, 10:14 AM Matt Salatino via Groups.Io <helmsmatt=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Craig,
We vemently agree! :-)

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Aug 25, 2019, at 5:20 AM, Craig Briggs via Groups.Io <sangaris@...> wrote:

Hi Matt,
   Agree 100% with your statement that censorship does a disservice to us all and carefully filtered info is not helpful. I think opinions though, be they positive or negative, are much more helpful if they are supported by some facts. So the point I was making was simply that being "warned to avoid" with no facts supporting that opinion didn't seem helpful in making an informed decision - it's kind of like somebody's experience with no information attached. Then again, the venerable Consumer Reports organization gives "Customer Satisfaction" ratings in addition to their factual test-based ratings. However, those are not single data points as are prevalent in forums like this.
   Btw, I forgot to mention in my earlier post that there's an excellent recorded Webinar on buying insurance put on by SSCA that's available on their web site. It was initially developed by Al Golden of IMIS.  Interestingly, Al put me off of Pantaenius many years ago with some fact-based opinion - at the time, the Pantaenius product was a "Named Perils" type of policy (only covering their list of perils, albeit quite comprehensive). His Jackline policy through Markel was an "All-risk" policy that covered any type of loss unless specifically excluded. Being a Broker, he did offer to sell me the Pantaenius policy if I really wanted it - I stuck with Jackline.  Pantaenius switched to "All-risk" a couple of years later and I went there for the savings, so there's another twist available to you; stick with a Broker like IMIS who has a great reputation for service but get the product of the insurer you want. Then again, I've had excellent response from Pantaenius USA (albeit no claims).
  Happy shopping,  Craig


Mark Dajani
 

Hello Matt,

My Name is Mark Dajani,   I will be picking up my Amel 60 this June and plan to keep it in the med for a year or so before moving on.    I read your entire flow on the boat building process and it was very helpful.   the Amel folks have been a pleasure to work with.     

I am ready to get Insurance,   I would certainly appreciate any insights from your experience.   Which agency / carrier did you end up with.   what would you do differently?   thanks so much for any advice you may have.


Mark


Mark & Debbie Mueller
 

Hi Matt,

 

We had been insured with Pantaenius US for the last two years with no issues.  However, our policy renewal date was January 1 and the new policy conditions that Pantaenius imposed were so onerous and unreasonable that we were forced to switch carriers.

 

Pantaenius changed the upper boundary of the hurricane box to 35° North, this bisects Cape Hatteras.  Our nearest port North then becomes Hampton or Norfolk.  An additional deterrent was departing Norfolk on or after December 1; it gets pretty real cold at that time of the year.  They also changed the dates of the hurricane season from July 15 – November 1 to July 1 – November 30 with no boundary for the southern end of the box.  The change in dates decreased summer sailing season by 45 days if you plan to sail the Bahamas or the Caribbean.  They now also require that the “insured vessel shall be secured between two fixed piers or a fixed pier and a bulkhead or two bulkheads; these fixed structures to which the insured vessel is secured must be suitable to sustain the wave action of the NTS. The size of the berth and the manner in which the insured vessel is secured shall be such that there is a minimum of 6 feet of distance between the vessel and each fixed pier or bulkhead and any adjacent vessels or pilings. The insured vessel shall NOT be secured to floating piers or docks…”.  I believe you have been at Brunswick Landing Marina in Brunswick, GA; these policy conditions exclude Brunswick as a harbor that has traditionally been very safe during hurricane season.  Pantaenius also had an increase in the lightning deductible plus a substantial increase in premium.

 

If Pantaenius becomes one of your final candidates I would go over the policy conditions very thoroughly.  We selected:

 

YachtInsure

Hugo Hanham-Gross

Hanham Insurance Agency

843.410.2990

Charleston, SC  29403


--
Mark Mueller
Brass Ring  A54


Matt Salatino
 

Hi Mark,
First, Congratulations on your new boat! I’m sure our paths will cross. We plan to leave La Rochelle, headed for the Med in May with our new 50.
As for insurance, we did considerable research. We’re interested in a carrier who will work, hard, to make us whole in case of a claim, vs. carriers who work equally hard to avoid paying a claim. Of course, we are interested in not paying the highest premium, too. All this said, in 33 years of boat ownership, we’ve never made a claim.
So, after reading dozens of reviews, our favorite was Pantaenius UK. Unfortunately, being a US-flagged boat, they wouldn’t talk to us and referred us to Pantaenius US, not our favorite, but after considerable dialog with our broker, who we’ve known for a decade, we went with them. I did hear good things about Yachtinsure (www.yachtinsure.uk).
In which country are you flagging your yacht?

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Feb 1, 2020, at 2:28 PM, Mark Dajani via Groups.Io <mdajani@...> wrote:

Hello Matt,

My Name is Mark Dajani,   I will be picking up my Amel 60 this June and plan to keep it in the med for a year or so before moving on.    I read your entire flow on the boat building process and it was very helpful.   the Amel folks have been a pleasure to work with.     

I am ready to get Insurance,   I would certainly appreciate any insights from your experience.   Which agency / carrier did you end up with.   what would you do differently?   thanks so much for any advice you may have.


Mark


Matt Salatino
 

Thanks for the input Mark. We understand Pantaenius’ Caribbean and US limits. We are insuring for the Med, and the conditions were comparable to others. We do realize when we cross the Atlantic, we’ll have to change carriers. That is likely 2 years off.....

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Feb 1, 2020, at 6:18 PM, Mark & Debbie Mueller <brass.ring@...> wrote:

Hi Matt,

 

We had been insured with Pantaenius US for the last two years with no issues.  However, our policy renewal date was January 1 and the new policy conditions that Pantaenius imposed were so onerous and unreasonable that we were forced to switch carriers.

 

Pantaenius changed the upper boundary of the hurricane box to 35° North, this bisects Cape Hatteras.  Our nearest port North then becomes Hampton or Norfolk.  An additional deterrent was departing Norfolk on or after December 1; it gets pretty real cold at that time of the year.  They also changed the dates of the hurricane season from July 15 – November 1 to July 1 – November 30 with no boundary for the southern end of the box.  The change in dates decreased summer sailing season by 45 days if you plan to sail the Bahamas or the Caribbean.  They now also require that the “insured vessel shall be secured between two fixed piers or a fixed pier and a bulkhead or two bulkheads; these fixed structures to which the insured vessel is secured must be suitable to sustain the wave action of the NTS. The size of the berth and the manner in which the insured vessel is secured shall be such that there is a minimum of 6 feet of distance between the vessel and each fixed pier or bulkhead and any adjacent vessels or pilings. The insured vessel shall NOT be secured to floating piers or docks…”.  I believe you have been at Brunswick Landing Marina in Brunswick, GA; these policy conditions exclude Brunswick as a harbor that has traditionally been very safe during hurricane season.  Pantaenius also had an increase in the lightning deductible plus a substantial increase in premium.

 

If Pantaenius becomes one of your final candidates I would go over the policy conditions very thoroughly.  We selected:

 

YachtInsure

Hugo Hanham-Gross

Hanham Insurance Agency

843.410.2990

Charleston, SC  29403


--
Mark Mueller
Brass Ring  A54


marklesparkle59
 

Hi Mark,
Sea Hobo has been insured with Navigators and General since I took over and and they seem very reasonable and helpful. I have not made a claim. The cost was smaller this year for the same coverage, a nice surprise.

Mark Porter
Sea Hobo
Sharki #96



Sent from my Samsung device


-------- Original message --------
From: "Mark Dajani via Groups.Io" <mdajani@...>
Date: 01/02/2020 19:28 (GMT+00:00)
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Insurance in Europe

Hello Matt,

My Name is Mark Dajani,   I will be picking up my Amel 60 this June and plan to keep it in the med for a year or so before moving on.    I read your entire flow on the boat building process and it was very helpful.   the Amel folks have been a pleasure to work with.     

I am ready to get Insurance,   I would certainly appreciate any insights from your experience.   Which agency / carrier did you end up with.   what would you do differently?   thanks so much for any advice you may have.


Mark


Elja Röllinghoff Balu SM 222
 

He Mark
Great ! I was on the 60 on the Boat show in Düsseldorf.

We have now 15 yaers pantenius for insurance and verry happy

Best Elja
SM Balu

Von meinem iPhone gesendet


Matt Salatino
 

Pantaenius UK and Pantaenius USA are two different companies that only share a name.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Feb 2, 2020, at 1:52 PM, Elja Röllinghoff Balu SM 222 <Bijorka@...> wrote:

He Mark
Great ! I was on  the 60 on the Boat show in Düsseldorf.

We have now 15 yaers  pantenius for insurance and verry happy

Best Elja
SM Balu

Von meinem iPhone gesendet




Elja Röllinghoff Balu SM 222
 

We are by Pantenius Germany

Von meinem iPhone gesendet


Matt Salatino
 

Very different from Pantaenius USA.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Feb 2, 2020, at 3:13 PM, Elja Röllinghoff Balu SM 222 <Bijorka@...> wrote:

We are by Pantenius Germany

Von meinem iPhone gesendet




Michael & Robyn
 

Hi Mark,

we had been with Pantaenius US since 2016 but had to change for the same reasons Mark & Debbie from Brassring described.
Pantaenius US only offered Geico as underwriter.
We looked into Boat US / Geico and Yachtinsure but their policy is NOT an "all risk". There was als a requirement for a US address for a foreign (none US) flagged vessel.
We decided to go with Y Yacht Insurance originally in the UK but for Brexit they opened up a European office in France.
Hurricane season is 1st June to 1st November and we have to be north of 36°N, e.g.: Chesapeake.
Their policy is readable and one can understand it without a degree in law science.
--
Michael & Robyn

SY RIPPLE SM2K # 417


Matt Salatino
 

I think the topic of insurance is a constantly changing beast, and needs to be reviewed, periodically. Very interesting comments from the group!

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Feb 3, 2020, at 5:15 AM, Michael & Robyn <SY_RIPPLE@...> wrote:

Hi Mark,

we had been with Pantaenius US since 2016 but had to change for the same reasons Mark & Debbie from Brassring described.
Pantaenius US only offered Geico as underwriter.
We looked into Boat US / Geico and Yachtinsure but their policy is NOT an "all risk". There was als a requirement for a US address for a foreign (none US) flagged vessel.
We decided to go with Y Yacht Insurance originally in the UK but for Brexit they opened up a European office in France.
Hurricane season is 1st June to 1st November and we have to be north of 36°N, e.g.: Chesapeake.
Their policy is readable and one can understand it without a degree in law science.
--
Michael & Robyn

SY RIPPLE SM2K # 417


Miles
 

Hello Mark,

 

Congratulations on your new boat.  If you are going to stay in Europe for a few years, I suggest that you look into Pantaenius in Europe.  They are an different company and will not insure an American boat in American waters.  I had them for 8 years and found them to be excellent.  They change less than any US company, have lower delectable, and more coverage.  One reason that they can have such inexpensive liability is the exclusion of US waters and US litigation. 

 

Regards,

 

Miles  s/y Ladybug, SM216  Le Marin,  Martinique


Ralf Schroeder
 

Hi Cindy and Matt,

in German are second alternativ insurance or broker.
First, there is firmenich-yacht.de and the other is yachtpool.

Yachtpool is since many years my broker and I'm very happy with them.
firmenich is for me new. But a friend from me was changed from Pantaenius to firmenich, because the cost are very smaller now.  

Best
Ralf
Sharki Baghira
 


Matt Salatino
 

Thanks for that input!
We will certainly shop your recommendations for next year, when our insurance expires in October. We are insured now with Pantaenius USA and would certainly entertain better pricing for similar coverage.....
Thanks again!

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Feb 3, 2020, at 2:29 PM, Ralf Schroeder <ralf.schroeder@...> wrote:

Hi Cindy and Matt,

in German are second alternativ insurance or broker.
First, there is firmenich-yacht.de and the other is yachtpool.

Yachtpool is since many years my broker and I'm very happy with them.
firmenich is for me new. But a friend from me was changed from Pantaenius to firmenich, because the cost are very smaller now.  

Best
Ralf
Sharki Baghira