Intermittent starting issue


Patrick McAneny
 

For a couple of years I have had an issue ,where I turn the key and nothing happens, or the blower may come on and then turning the key further results in the blower going off. It seems to be a condition where there is an electrical contact ,but when additional load is required ,the contact is broken. I can go months without this occurring , but it does, and I need to resolve it ,before it gets me into trouble. I have a new starter battery and starter ,so that is not the issue. I have in the past turned the battery switches off and on repeatedly and then been able to start the engine ,but not always. We met up with Delos in the Caribbean  a few times and I know Brian disassembled his switches to clean the contacts.But I did not ask if he was having starting issues , I guess I assumed he did. Before I go to the trouble of doing that, I was wondering if other owners have had such an issue and cleaned their switches . Is there other possible causes I should look at first. It would not be easy to get the pins out of the handles , and disconnect all the cables in order to disassemble the switches ,so I don't want to do it if it has never been an issue before, I have never heard anyone in all these years mention a problem with the switch contacts.
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


Bill Kinney
 

Pat,

Intermittent failures can be such… fun.

If I understand correctly, when you have this issue with starting, the blowers do not run as well.  That narrows down the likely causes quite a bit.  

The key switch, or the wiring around it would be my prime suspect, although it could be other things too.  12V power comes from the engine, up to the key switch.  When the switch is “ON” the power is sent back to the engine, and to the relays that turn on the blowers.  If the blowers and the starter are showing common failure, then the fault must be before the wires divide on the positive side, or maybe after they come together on the negative side back to the battery.

Another place to look is the isolating relay in the ground wire.  If that is intermittent in operation, or has bad contacts, to could interrupt the circuit on the return side.  I think this is unlikely, because the blower negative return is connected on the battery side of this. Other than those two, its a matter of pulling and cleaning connections to be sure contact is good.

Key switches on both Volvo and Yanmar panels are not 100% waterproof, maybe a bit less so with the key left in.  A drop or two of salt water inside, and things can get unreliable. I have never disassembled one to clean it, although I have replaced them.

Bill Kinney
SM Harmonie
Brunswick, GA, USA


Patrick McAneny
 

Bill, Sometimes the blower does not come on ,but more often it does come on ,however when I turn the key further to engage the starter ,nothing happens and the blower shuts off as well. That is why I said it seems that there may be enough contact to power the blower ,but when more load (starter) is engaged the electrical contact is broken .
Thanks ,
Pat
SM Shenanigans

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Kinney <cruisingconsulting@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Jul 14, 2021 10:22 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Intermittent starting issue

Pat,

Intermittent failures can be such… fun.

If I understand correctly, when you have this issue with starting, the blowers do not run as well.  That narrows down the likely causes quite a bit.  

The key switch, or the wiring around it would be my prime suspect, although it could be other things too.  12V power comes from the engine, up to the key switch.  When the switch is “ON” the power is sent back to the engine, and to the relays that turn on the blowers.  If the blowers and the starter are showing common failure, then the fault must be before the wires divide on the positive side, or maybe after they come together on the negative side back to the battery.

Another place to look is the isolating relay in the ground wire.  If that is intermittent in operation, or has bad contacts, to could interrupt the circuit on the return side.  I think this is unlikely, because the blower negative return is connected on the battery side of this. Other than those two, its a matter of pulling and cleaning connections to be sure contact is good.

Key switches on both Volvo and Yanmar panels are not 100% waterproof, maybe a bit less so with the key left in.  A drop or two of salt water inside, and things can get unreliable. I have never disassembled one to clean it, although I have replaced them.

Bill Kinney
SM Harmonie
Brunswick, GA, USA


Mark Erdos
 

Pat,

 

How is it resolved. Do you just try again and it works, or what?

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Patrick McAneny via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2021 3:40 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Intermittent starting issue

 

For a couple of years I have had an issue ,where I turn the key and nothing happens, or the blower may come on and then turning the key further results in the blower going off. It seems to be a condition where there is an electrical contact ,but when additional load is required ,the contact is broken. I can go months without this occurring , but it does, and I need to resolve it ,before it gets me into trouble. I have a new starter battery and starter ,so that is not the issue. I have in the past turned the battery switches off and on repeatedly and then been able to start the engine ,but not always. We met up with Delos in the Caribbean  a few times and I know Brian disassembled his switches to clean the contacts.But I did not ask if he was having starting issues , I guess I assumed he did. Before I go to the trouble of doing that, I was wondering if other owners have had such an issue and cleaned their switches . Is there other possible causes I should look at first. It would not be easy to get the pins out of the handles , and disconnect all the cables in order to disassemble the switches ,so I don't want to do it if it has never been an issue before, I have never heard anyone in all these years mention a problem with the switch contacts.
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


Mark Erdos
 

Pat,

 

Here’s a thought. When the engine doesn’t crank, use a remote starter switch to bypass the panel. This connects to the solenoid on the starter (the small terminal marked “s” and the pos battery terminal – thick red cable). This will completely bypass the panel at the helm.

This will help isolate your issue. If the engine cranks, you’ll know the issue is in the panel or harness (probably a poor connection). If it doesn’t crank it is not the panel.

 

To anyone else reading this, this item should be in your spare parts. Some people will use and ruin a screwdriver to do the same thing but this is much safer.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Patrick McAneny via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2021 3:40 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Intermittent starting issue

 

For a couple of years I have had an issue ,where I turn the key and nothing happens, or the blower may come on and then turning the key further results in the blower going off. It seems to be a condition where there is an electrical contact ,but when additional load is required ,the contact is broken. I can go months without this occurring , but it does, and I need to resolve it ,before it gets me into trouble. I have a new starter battery and starter ,so that is not the issue. I have in the past turned the battery switches off and on repeatedly and then been able to start the engine ,but not always. We met up with Delos in the Caribbean  a few times and I know Brian disassembled his switches to clean the contacts.But I did not ask if he was having starting issues , I guess I assumed he did. Before I go to the trouble of doing that, I was wondering if other owners have had such an issue and cleaned their switches . Is there other possible causes I should look at first. It would not be easy to get the pins out of the handles , and disconnect all the cables in order to disassemble the switches ,so I don't want to do it if it has never been an issue before, I have never heard anyone in all these years mention a problem with the switch contacts.
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


 

Mark,

I believe if that works on your Amel, the Negative Solenoid is defeated, bypassed, or not installed.

The negative solenoid closes by the key action when the key is moved to "start."

I think it might be possible to connect a remote starter switch to the starter relay which controls both the starter solenoid and the negative solenoid.


CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 12:32 PM Mark Erdos <mcerdos@...> wrote:

Pat,

 

Here’s a thought. When the engine doesn’t crank, use a remote starter switch to bypass the panel. This connects to the solenoid on the starter (the small terminal marked “s” and the pos battery terminal – thick red cable). This will completely bypass the panel at the helm.

This will help isolate your issue. If the engine cranks, you’ll know the issue is in the panel or harness (probably a poor connection). If it doesn’t crank it is not the panel.

 

To anyone else reading this, this item should be in your spare parts. Some people will use and ruin a screwdriver to do the same thing but this is much safer.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Patrick McAneny via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2021 3:40 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Intermittent starting issue

 

For a couple of years I have had an issue ,where I turn the key and nothing happens, or the blower may come on and then turning the key further results in the blower going off. It seems to be a condition where there is an electrical contact ,but when additional load is required ,the contact is broken. I can go months without this occurring , but it does, and I need to resolve it ,before it gets me into trouble. I have a new starter battery and starter ,so that is not the issue. I have in the past turned the battery switches off and on repeatedly and then been able to start the engine ,but not always. We met up with Delos in the Caribbean  a few times and I know Brian disassembled his switches to clean the contacts.But I did not ask if he was having starting issues , I guess I assumed he did. Before I go to the trouble of doing that, I was wondering if other owners have had such an issue and cleaned their switches . Is there other possible causes I should look at first. It would not be easy to get the pins out of the handles , and disconnect all the cables in order to disassemble the switches ,so I don't want to do it if it has never been an issue before, I have never heard anyone in all these years mention a problem with the switch contacts.
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


Mark Erdos
 

Bill, Good point. I guess the key would need to be in the start position or the connection made to the starter relay.

 

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2021 7:43 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Intermittent starting issue

 

Mark,

 

I believe if that works on your Amel, the Negative Solenoid is defeated, bypassed, or not installed.

 

The negative solenoid closes by the key action when the key is moved to "start."

 

I think it might be possible to connect a remote starter switch to the starter relay which controls both the starter solenoid and the negative solenoid.

 

 

Image removed by sender.

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

Image removed by sender.Image removed by sender.Image removed by sender.

 

View My Training Calendar

Image removed by sender.

 

 

On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 12:32 PM Mark Erdos <mcerdos@...> wrote:

Pat,

 

Here’s a thought. When the engine doesn’t crank, use a remote starter switch to bypass the panel. This connects to the solenoid on the starter (the small terminal marked “s” and the pos battery terminal – thick red cable). This will completely bypass the panel at the helm.

This will help isolate your issue. If the engine cranks, you’ll know the issue is in the panel or harness (probably a poor connection). If it doesn’t crank it is not the panel.

 

To anyone else reading this, this item should be in your spare parts. Some people will use and ruin a screwdriver to do the same thing but this is much safer.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Patrick McAneny via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2021 3:40 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Intermittent starting issue

 

For a couple of years I have had an issue ,where I turn the key and nothing happens, or the blower may come on and then turning the key further results in the blower going off. It seems to be a condition where there is an electrical contact ,but when additional load is required ,the contact is broken. I can go months without this occurring , but it does, and I need to resolve it ,before it gets me into trouble. I have a new starter battery and starter ,so that is not the issue. I have in the past turned the battery switches off and on repeatedly and then been able to start the engine ,but not always. We met up with Delos in the Caribbean  a few times and I know Brian disassembled his switches to clean the contacts.But I did not ask if he was having starting issues , I guess I assumed he did. Before I go to the trouble of doing that, I was wondering if other owners have had such an issue and cleaned their switches . Is there other possible causes I should look at first. It would not be easy to get the pins out of the handles , and disconnect all the cables in order to disassemble the switches ,so I don't want to do it if it has never been an issue before, I have never heard anyone in all these years mention a problem with the switch contacts.
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


Patrick McAneny
 

Mark, Generally I just continued to try starting it ,until it did,sometimes I turned the main switches on and off ,thinking it may be a bad contact and it started sometimes ,but that could be coincidental . I am sure it is not the starter ,solenoid or battery,as they are all new. I will take your advice and buy a remote starter.   
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Erdos <mcerdos@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Jul 14, 2021 1:44 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Intermittent starting issue

Pat,
 
Here’s a thought. When the engine doesn’t crank, use a remote starter switch to bypass the panel. This connects to the solenoid on the starter (the small terminal marked “s” and the pos battery terminal – thick red cable). This will completely bypass the panel at the helm.

This will help isolate your issue. If the engine cranks, you’ll know the issue is in the panel or harness (probably a poor connection). If it doesn’t crank it is not the panel.
 
To anyone else reading this, this item should be in your spare parts. Some people will use and ruin a screwdriver to do the same thing but this is much safer.
 
 
With best regards,
 
Mark
 
Skipper
Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia
www.creampuff.us
 
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Patrick McAneny via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2021 3:40 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Intermittent starting issue
 
For a couple of years I have had an issue ,where I turn the key and nothing happens, or the blower may come on and then turning the key further results in the blower going off. It seems to be a condition where there is an electrical contact ,but when additional load is required ,the contact is broken. I can go months without this occurring , but it does, and I need to resolve it ,before it gets me into trouble. I have a new starter battery and starter ,so that is not the issue. I have in the past turned the battery switches off and on repeatedly and then been able to start the engine ,but not always. We met up with Delos in the Caribbean  a few times and I know Brian disassembled his switches to clean the contacts.But I did not ask if he was having starting issues , I guess I assumed he did. Before I go to the trouble of doing that, I was wondering if other owners have had such an issue and cleaned their switches . Is there other possible causes I should look at first. It would not be easy to get the pins out of the handles , and disconnect all the cables in order to disassemble the switches ,so I don't want to do it if it has never been an issue before, I have never heard anyone in all these years mention a problem with the switch contacts.
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


Patrick McAneny
 

Bill ,Are all those relays located in the black box attached to the engine? Do relays work intermittently ,or are they either good or bad ? I wish I better understood the complexities of the electrical systems on the boat. I could wire a house ,no problem ,but looking at a electrical schematic and relating that to the actually wiring ,leaves me scratching a bald spot on my head. 
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Jul 14, 2021 1:42 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Intermittent starting issue

Mark,

I believe if that works on your Amel, the Negative Solenoid is defeated, bypassed, or not installed.

The negative solenoid closes by the key action when the key is moved to "start."

I think it might be possible to connect a remote starter switch to the starter relay which controls both the starter solenoid and the negative solenoid.


CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 12:32 PM Mark Erdos <mcerdos@...> wrote:
Pat,
 
Here’s a thought. When the engine doesn’t crank, use a remote starter switch to bypass the panel. This connects to the solenoid on the starter (the small terminal marked “s” and the pos battery terminal – thick red cable). This will completely bypass the panel at the helm.

This will help isolate your issue. If the engine cranks, you’ll know the issue is in the panel or harness (probably a poor connection). If it doesn’t crank it is not the panel.
 
To anyone else reading this, this item should be in your spare parts. Some people will use and ruin a screwdriver to do the same thing but this is much safer.
 
 
With best regards,
 
Mark
 
Skipper
Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia
 
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Patrick McAneny via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2021 3:40 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Intermittent starting issue
 
For a couple of years I have had an issue ,where I turn the key and nothing happens, or the blower may come on and then turning the key further results in the blower going off. It seems to be a condition where there is an electrical contact ,but when additional load is required ,the contact is broken. I can go months without this occurring , but it does, and I need to resolve it ,before it gets me into trouble. I have a new starter battery and starter ,so that is not the issue. I have in the past turned the battery switches off and on repeatedly and then been able to start the engine ,but not always. We met up with Delos in the Caribbean  a few times and I know Brian disassembled his switches to clean the contacts.But I did not ask if he was having starting issues , I guess I assumed he did. Before I go to the trouble of doing that, I was wondering if other owners have had such an issue and cleaned their switches . Is there other possible causes I should look at first. It would not be easy to get the pins out of the handles , and disconnect all the cables in order to disassemble the switches ,so I don't want to do it if it has never been an issue before, I have never heard anyone in all these years mention a problem with the switch contacts.
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Pat, was there a birthday in your family recently? Happy birthday.

As to contacts. I have said this a number of times before. The sea environment is brutal and unless we protect our contacts we will inevitably get failures. Corrosion, like rust, never sleeps. I use CRC 556 marine. WD 40 is a first cousin. Spray all electrical connections regularly, say once every six months. It is a whole lot easier than hunting down failed connections. I spray behind all instruments and switch panels. Over all alternators and starter motors and associated connections. Over and INTO (caps deliberate) the water pump for the air con. Mounted so low it is in a very vulnerable position. I also go all round the engine room and spray all metal parts and particularly hose clamps.

One Amel friend said to me on looking into my engine room. How come you don't have rust like mine. I smiled and shook my can of CRC

Caution, be sure to only use product that is rated for electrical use. One person I know once sprayed the back of his radios with a product  including a longer lasting lubricant additive. He was about to start an ocean race and lost the use of his radios.

Kind Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 15 July 2021 at 01:40 "Patrick McAneny via groups.io" <sailw32@...> wrote:

For a couple of years I have had an issue ,where I turn the key and nothing happens, or the blower may come on and then turning the key further results in the blower going off. It seems to be a condition where there is an electrical contact ,but when additional load is required ,the contact is broken. I can go months without this occurring , but it does, and I need to resolve it ,before it gets me into trouble. I have a new starter battery and starter ,so that is not the issue. I have in the past turned the battery switches off and on repeatedly and then been able to start the engine ,but not always. We met up with Delos in the Caribbean  a few times and I know Brian disassembled his switches to clean the contacts.But I did not ask if he was having starting issues , I guess I assumed he did. Before I go to the trouble of doing that, I was wondering if other owners have had such an issue and cleaned their switches . Is there other possible causes I should look at first. It would not be easy to get the pins out of the handles , and disconnect all the cables in order to disassemble the switches ,so I don't want to do it if it has never been an issue before, I have never heard anyone in all these years mention a problem with the switch contacts.
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


Patrick McAneny
 

Danny, That is good advise, and I have not done that nearly enough. I will start to make that part of my routine . Yes , it is Diane's birthday ,leaving for dinner in a bit. She just told me Yvonne texted  a Happy Birthday wish on July 14 your time ,so was the first ,as we are a day behind. Saw your birthday pics last week on F/B , your looking fit.
Thanks for the tip.
Pat
SM Shenanigans
Sassafras River, Md.


-----Original Message-----
From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Jul 14, 2021 5:29 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Intermittent starting issue

Hi Pat, was there a birthday in your family recently? Happy birthday.
As to contacts. I have said this a number of times before. The sea environment is brutal and unless we protect our contacts we will inevitably get failures. Corrosion, like rust, never sleeps. I use CRC 556 marine. WD 40 is a first cousin. Spray all electrical connections regularly, say once every six months. It is a whole lot easier than hunting down failed connections. I spray behind all instruments and switch panels. Over all alternators and starter motors and associated connections. Over and INTO (caps deliberate) the water pump for the air con. Mounted so low it is in a very vulnerable position. I also go all round the engine room and spray all metal parts and particularly hose clamps.
One Amel friend said to me on looking into my engine room. How come you don't have rust like mine. I smiled and shook my can of CRC
Caution, be sure to only use product that is rated for electrical use. One person I know once sprayed the back of his radios with a product  including a longer lasting lubricant additive. He was about to start an ocean race and lost the use of his radios.
Kind Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl
On 15 July 2021 at 01:40 "Patrick McAneny via groups.io" <sailw32@...> wrote:

For a couple of years I have had an issue ,where I turn the key and nothing happens, or the blower may come on and then turning the key further results in the blower going off. It seems to be a condition where there is an electrical contact ,but when additional load is required ,the contact is broken. I can go months without this occurring , but it does, and I need to resolve it ,before it gets me into trouble. I have a new starter battery and starter ,so that is not the issue. I have in the past turned the battery switches off and on repeatedly and then been able to start the engine ,but not always. We met up with Delos in the Caribbean  a few times and I know Brian disassembled his switches to clean the contacts.But I did not ask if he was having starting issues , I guess I assumed he did. Before I go to the trouble of doing that, I was wondering if other owners have had such an issue and cleaned their switches . Is there other possible causes I should look at first. It would not be easy to get the pins out of the handles , and disconnect all the cables in order to disassemble the switches ,so I don't want to do it if it has never been an issue before, I have never heard anyone in all these years mention a problem with the switch contacts.
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


rossirossix4
 

Agree with Danny as a first intervention and prevention.  We very occasionally squirt Corrosion-X right into the starter key hole and ditto for the battery switches, etc.  Worth doing first and no downside.  BTW we also squirt that crazy Yanmar electrical connection plug--the one with a bazillion wires--I'd love to see someone publish a diagram of that thing.
Bob-- KAIMI SM429


Eric Freedman
 

Hi Bob,

The wiring diagram of the “B” panel is in the back of the parts manual.

Fair Winds,

Eric

Sm 376 Kimberlite

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of rossirossix4
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2021 5:17 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Intermittent starting issue

 

Agree with Danny as a first intervention and prevention.  We very occasionally squirt Corrosion-X right into the starter key hole and ditto for the battery switches, etc.  Worth doing first and no downside.  BTW we also squirt that crazy Yanmar electrical connection plug--the one with a bazillion wires--I'd love to see someone publish a diagram of that thing.
Bob-- KAIMI SM429


Eric Freedman
 

Over the last 5 or so years I have encountered this intermittent problem.

With a new engine totally rewired by me and all new panel and wiring I assumed the problem was solved.

 

However, it was not. I found that Amel used welding wire and not tinned wire from the starting battery and the main switches. Additionally , the lugs that they used were open at the terminal end. Thus, allowing the battery acid laden air to enter the wire, When I cut the wire open, I found that it was corroded for almost 2 feet from the battery.-which causes a lot of resistance . The voltage at the starter motor was + or – 11 volts.

The Valeo solenoid is rather sensitive to low voltage.

 

Upon further inspection of the cabled from the starting battery to the vapor barrier connector was a completely different color than the wire outside the battery box.

 

I replaced the cables and used closed end connectors on the cables. I also soldered the cables to the connectors after crimping them. I then applied Scotchcote,  

https://www.3m.com/3M/en_LB/p/d/v000260989/ 

 

 

which is used on many underground connections.

Now the engine starts and stops like a charm. I also noted that the generator starts much more quickly.

 

While I was in the battery box, I noted that the common lugs posts for all the batteries were somewhat corroded. I loosened the nuts and applied corrosion x in between the lugs. My next project is to replace all the battery cables.

 

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

 

 

 


Patrick McAneny
 

Eric, I had not thought about the condition of the cables as a source of my problem. I will cut back a cable and see what the condition is. My boat is a bit older than yours ,so that could be it. I need to resolve this before it gets me into a serious situation .The Scotchkote looks like good stuff.
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans
Sassafras River, Md.


-----Original Message-----
From: eric freedman <kimberlite@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Fri, Jul 16, 2021 6:46 pm
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] POSSIBLE SOLUTION Intermittent starting issue

Over the last 5 or so years I have encountered this intermittent problem.
With a new engine totally rewired by me and all new panel and wiring I assumed the problem was solved.
 
However, it was not. I found that Amel used welding wire and not tinned wire from the starting battery and the main switches. Additionally , the lugs that they used were open at the terminal end. Thus, allowing the battery acid laden air to enter the wire, When I cut the wire open, I found that it was corroded for almost 2 feet from the battery.-which causes a lot of resistance . The voltage at the starter motor was + or – 11 volts.
The Valeo solenoid is rather sensitive to low voltage.
 
Upon further inspection of the cabled from the starting battery to the vapor barrier connector was a completely different color than the wire outside the battery box.
 
I replaced the cables and used closed end connectors on the cables. I also soldered the cables to the connectors after crimping them. I then applied Scotchcote,  
https://www.3m.com/3M/en_LB/p/d/v000260989/ 
 
 
which is used on many underground connections.
Now the engine starts and stops like a charm. I also noted that the generator starts much more quickly.
 
While I was in the battery box, I noted that the common lugs posts for all the batteries were somewhat corroded. I loosened the nuts and applied corrosion x in between the lugs. My next project is to replace all the battery cables.
 
Fair Winds
Eric
Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376
 
 
 
 
 


Eric Freedman
 

Pat ,

Just look at the connector at the battery. If it is corroded simply change the cables. It is an inexpensive and quick fix.

Just Make sure to use tinned wire, I used 1 gauge not 1/o with closed ends lugs . They are closed at the battery end and not subject to the fumes from the battery.

Fair Winds,

Eric

SM 376 Kimberlite

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Patrick McAneny via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2021 7:12 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] POSSIBLE SOLUTION Intermittent starting issue

 

Eric, I had not thought about the condition of the cables as a source of my problem. I will cut back a cable and see what the condition is. My boat is a bit older than yours ,so that could be it. I need to resolve this before it gets me into a serious situation .The Scotchkote looks like good stuff.

Thanks,

Pat

SM Shenanigans

Sassafras River, Md.

-----Original Message-----
From: eric freedman <kimberlite@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Fri, Jul 16, 2021 6:46 pm
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] POSSIBLE SOLUTION Intermittent starting issue

Over the last 5 or so years I have encountered this intermittent problem.

With a new engine totally rewired by me and all new panel and wiring I assumed the problem was solved.

 

However, it was not. I found that Amel used welding wire and not tinned wire from the starting battery and the main switches. Additionally , the lugs that they used were open at the terminal end. Thus, allowing the battery acid laden air to enter the wire, When I cut the wire open, I found that it was corroded for almost 2 feet from the battery.-which causes a lot of resistance . The voltage at the starter motor was + or – 11 volts.

The Valeo solenoid is rather sensitive to low voltage.

 

Upon further inspection of the cabled from the starting battery to the vapor barrier connector was a completely different color than the wire outside the battery box.

 

I replaced the cables and used closed end connectors on the cables. I also soldered the cables to the connectors after crimping them. I then applied Scotchcote,  

 

 

which is used on many underground connections.

Now the engine starts and stops like a charm. I also noted that the generator starts much more quickly.

 

While I was in the battery box, I noted that the common lugs posts for all the batteries were somewhat corroded. I loosened the nuts and applied corrosion x in between the lugs. My next project is to replace all the battery cables.

 

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

 

 

 


Eric Freedman
 

There are a umber of things that can cause intermittent starting issues. The Valeo solenoid requires a lot of current to close it.

 

One ghost I found was behind the panel on my Yanmar. For some reason Amel installed a butt connector in the start wiring circuit. When you turn the key, everything works and the Valeo solenoid tries to close. After removing the butt connector and soldering the wires that issue went away. There are a lot of goblins in the starting circuit.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io On Behalf Of Bill Kinney
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2021 10:23 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Intermittent starting issue

 

Pat,

Intermittent failures can be such… fun.

If I understand correctly, when you have this issue with starting, the blowers do not run as well.  That narrows down the likely causes quite a bit.  

The key switch, or the wiring around it would be my prime suspect, although it could be other things too.  12V power comes from the engine, up to the key switch.  When the switch is “ON” the power is sent back to the engine, and to the relays that turn on the blowers.  If the blowers and the starter are showing common failure, then the fault must be before the wires divide on the positive side, or maybe after they come together on the negative side back to the battery.

Another place to look is the isolating relay in the ground wire.  If that is intermittent in operation, or has bad contacts, to could interrupt the circuit on the return side.  I think this is unlikely, because the blower negative return is connected on the battery side of this. Other than those two, its a matter of pulling and cleaning connections to be sure contact is good.

Key switches on both Volvo and Yanmar panels are not 100% waterproof, maybe a bit less so with the key left in.  A drop or two of salt water inside, and things can get unreliable. I have never disassembled one to clean it, although I have replaced them.

Bill Kinney
SM Harmonie
Brunswick, GA, USA


Patrick McAneny
 

Eric , I agree there are many connections ,contact points and faults in wiring ,any one of which could be responsible for a starting problem. I also occasionally have an issue , where the engine does not shut down when I turn the key. I wish I better understood the electrical system , its a bit complex for me to trouble shoot sometimes. If it were possible to find a competent mechanic nearby ,I would gladly hire him for a day to assess my systems.
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: eric freedman <kimberlite@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Jul 28, 2021 4:08 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Intermittent starting issue

There are a umber of things that can cause intermittent starting issues. The Valeo solenoid requires a lot of current to close it.
 
One ghost I found was behind the panel on my Yanmar. For some reason Amel installed a butt connector in the start wiring circuit. When you turn the key, everything works and the Valeo solenoid tries to close. After removing the butt connector and soldering the wires that issue went away. There are a lot of goblins in the starting circuit.
Fair Winds
Eric
Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376
 
 
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io On Behalf Of Bill Kinney
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2021 10:23 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Intermittent starting issue
 
Pat,

Intermittent failures can be such… fun.

If I understand correctly, when you have this issue with starting, the blowers do not run as well.  That narrows down the likely causes quite a bit.  

The key switch, or the wiring around it would be my prime suspect, although it could be other things too.  12V power comes from the engine, up to the key switch.  When the switch is “ON” the power is sent back to the engine, and to the relays that turn on the blowers.  If the blowers and the starter are showing common failure, then the fault must be before the wires divide on the positive side, or maybe after they come together on the negative side back to the battery.

Another place to look is the isolating relay in the ground wire.  If that is intermittent in operation, or has bad contacts, to could interrupt the circuit on the return side.  I think this is unlikely, because the blower negative return is connected on the battery side of this. Other than those two, its a matter of pulling and cleaning connections to be sure contact is good.

Key switches on both Volvo and Yanmar panels are not 100% waterproof, maybe a bit less so with the key left in.  A drop or two of salt water inside, and things can get unreliable. I have never disassembled one to clean it, although I have replaced them.

Bill Kinney
SM Harmonie
Brunswick, GA, USA


Eric Freedman
 

Hi Pat,

What engine do you have?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io On Behalf Of Patrick McAneny via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2021 8:27 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Intermittent starting issue

 

Eric , I agree there are many connections ,contact points and faults in wiring ,any one of which could be responsible for a starting problem. I also occasionally have an issue , where the engine does not shut down when I turn the key. I wish I better understood the electrical system , its a bit complex for me to trouble shoot sometimes. If it were possible to find a competent mechanic nearby ,I would gladly hire him for a day to assess my systems.

Pat

SM Shenanigans

-----Original Message-----
From: eric freedman <kimberlite@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Jul 28, 2021 4:08 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Intermittent starting issue

There are a umber of things that can cause intermittent starting issues. The Valeo solenoid requires a lot of current to close it.

 

One ghost I found was behind the panel on my Yanmar. For some reason Amel installed a butt connector in the start wiring circuit. When you turn the key, everything works and the Valeo solenoid tries to close. After removing the butt connector and soldering the wires that issue went away. There are a lot of goblins in the starting circuit.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io On Behalf Of Bill Kinney
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2021 10:23 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Intermittent starting issue

 

Pat,

Intermittent failures can be such… fun.

If I understand correctly, when you have this issue with starting, the blowers do not run as well.  That narrows down the likely causes quite a bit.  

The key switch, or the wiring around it would be my prime suspect, although it could be other things too.  12V power comes from the engine, up to the key switch.  When the switch is “ON” the power is sent back to the engine, and to the relays that turn on the blowers.  If the blowers and the starter are showing common failure, then the fault must be before the wires divide on the positive side, or maybe after they come together on the negative side back to the battery.

Another place to look is the isolating relay in the ground wire.  If that is intermittent in operation, or has bad contacts, to could interrupt the circuit on the return side.  I think this is unlikely, because the blower negative return is connected on the battery side of this. Other than those two, its a matter of pulling and cleaning connections to be sure contact is good.

Key switches on both Volvo and Yanmar panels are not 100% waterproof, maybe a bit less so with the key left in.  A drop or two of salt water inside, and things can get unreliable. I have never disassembled one to clean it, although I have replaced them.

Bill Kinney
SM Harmonie
Brunswick, GA, USA


Patrick McAneny
 

Eric, I have a Volvo TMD22A , the engine itself has been great , it generally starts the second I turn the key. 
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: eric freedman <kimberlite@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Jul 28, 2021 6:03 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Intermittent starting issue

Hi Pat,
What engine do you have?
Fair Winds
Eric
Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376
 
 
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io On Behalf Of Patrick McAneny via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2021 8:27 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Intermittent starting issue
 
Eric , I agree there are many connections ,contact points and faults in wiring ,any one of which could be responsible for a starting problem. I also occasionally have an issue , where the engine does not shut down when I turn the key. I wish I better understood the electrical system , its a bit complex for me to trouble shoot sometimes. If it were possible to find a competent mechanic nearby ,I would gladly hire him for a day to assess my systems.
Pat
SM Shenanigans

-----Original Message-----
From: eric freedman <kimberlite@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Jul 28, 2021 4:08 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Intermittent starting issue
There are a umber of things that can cause intermittent starting issues. The Valeo solenoid requires a lot of current to close it.
 
One ghost I found was behind the panel on my Yanmar. For some reason Amel installed a butt connector in the start wiring circuit. When you turn the key, everything works and the Valeo solenoid tries to close. After removing the butt connector and soldering the wires that issue went away. There are a lot of goblins in the starting circuit.
Fair Winds
Eric
Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376
 
 
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io On Behalf Of Bill Kinney
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2021 10:23 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Intermittent starting issue
 
Pat,

Intermittent failures can be such… fun.

If I understand correctly, when you have this issue with starting, the blowers do not run as well.  That narrows down the likely causes quite a bit.  

The key switch, or the wiring around it would be my prime suspect, although it could be other things too.  12V power comes from the engine, up to the key switch.  When the switch is “ON” the power is sent back to the engine, and to the relays that turn on the blowers.  If the blowers and the starter are showing common failure, then the fault must be before the wires divide on the positive side, or maybe after they come together on the negative side back to the battery.

Another place to look is the isolating relay in the ground wire.  If that is intermittent in operation, or has bad contacts, to could interrupt the circuit on the return side.  I think this is unlikely, because the blower negative return is connected on the battery side of this. Other than those two, its a matter of pulling and cleaning connections to be sure contact is good.

Key switches on both Volvo and Yanmar panels are not 100% waterproof, maybe a bit less so with the key left in.  A drop or two of salt water inside, and things can get unreliable. I have never disassembled one to clean it, although I have replaced them.

Bill Kinney
SM Harmonie
Brunswick, GA, USA