Date
1 - 19 of 19
Jacklines
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Hey Team.
I would like some feedback from members who have installed jacklines to their Amel. We intend to fit some to Jaygo and have high quality webbing for the job. (Reason for webbing: Strong. No roll hazard. Some stretch to absorb shock loads. UV protected). Ideally I want the configuration to prevent clipped on crew from going over the side in the first place, not just retaining them tethered to the boat after going over. This reasoning is the result of personal experience in foul weather as well as that of a friend who was washed overboard in a Sydney/Hobart race and almost drowned while being hauled back onto the boat. As Dee and I almost always sail just as a couple, I acknowledge that one person trying to help the other back on board in really foul weather weather would be nigh on impossible. What ideas do you have on where to run and affix the lines? -- Rob & Dee SV Jaygo. SM#224 Brisbane, Australia Currently Great Barrier Reef. Heading south to Tasmania then New Zealand & up through Sth Pacific. |
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Bill Kinney
Rob,
Your objective to use your tether to stay on the boat instead of just attached to it is exactly the right approach. When I lived and sailed in the San Francisco Bay area, it was a sadly too common event to have a sailor go overboard in one of the ocean races while tethered, but the crew could not slow the boat and recover them before they drowned. We use dyneema webbing for our jacklines, and run them in a very typical style, from the bow cleats, to the cleats on the aft quarters. The forward end has sewn loops, and the aft end is hitched to the cleat. This has some advantages, and some disadvantages. It is simple, and easy to rig. It is mostly out of the way. It is possible to clip on, and stay attached the full length of the boat. Of course the jacklines are then rather near the rails. I manage this by using a double legged tether. One leg is about 1 meter long, JUST long enough to allow me to stand while connected to the jackline. When attached to the jackline, I can JUST reach the mast to attach to that, before I unclip from the jackline. The other leg of the tether is 2 meters long, and can be used to wrap around the mast (for example), to secure me there. Keeping the tether always as short as possible is important, not just to keep on the boat in the event of a fall, but to reduce the distance you fall before coming up short. With the short tether, is is possible (not likely, but possible) that I could be thrown over the rail, but I would be held well above the waterline. Not a fun place to be, but way better than being towed behind the boat. Bill Kinney SM160, Harmonie Port Louis, Grenada http://www.cruisingconsulting.com |
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Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
Hi Rob,
I have two sets. Both webbing. The first runs from the cleat on top of the windlass down both sides over all sheets etc to the big stern cleats either side.
The second one goes, again from the cleat on the windlass down the center of the boat either side of the mast to the ring on the deck in front of the windscreen.
I concur with you that to go overboard tethered with the boat doing my average of 8 knots would be lethal. Particularly if the off watch is asleep. .
Reality, to have a practical way of tethering that will prevent you falling over in any circumstance when WORKING on deck is in practical terms all but impossible. Dual tethers help, one short, one long.
I have a few cast iron rules off shore based on this truth.
Tethered or not, go overboard and you are dead unless you are very lucky
Whatever the weather if you leave the cabin you are harnessed and tethered always even sitting in the cockpit.
Never leave the cockpit without attaching the tether to the jack lines first. Never go on deck at night unless the off watch crew is roused and has sight of you. Day or night off watch crew should be aware every time you go on deck.
If some one goes overboard, tethered or not, Stop the boat as fast as you can, Swing head to wind
Kind regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl
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Mark Barter
We installed Dyneema jacklines down the middle of the boat. There is obviously an issue getting out of the cockpit and going forward. I solved that to some extent with very short tethers for that section.
There is an excellent set of articles on this subject on the Attainable Adventure Cruising website. We made a variety of tethers with via ferrata carabiners and climbing rope. It is all designed to stop someone going overboard which is the key. -- Mark & Nicky Barter S/V Nunky SM 110 |
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Hi Rob and All,
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Tangential to the jackline discussion I would encourage folks to look at the Team O backtow lifejackets. Really seems to me all lifejackets should incorporate this feature. It’s a small startup company with a great idea so they are still ramping up production but I have found them to be very responsive to inquiries. They did studies with strong people being towed at various speeds in a deployed inflatable lifejacket and I believe the consensus was that at greater than something on the order of two or three knots boat speed breathing was so difficult that people would rather have been without a lifejacket at all. Being towed on their back completely alleviated this problem. Brilliant. Dave Bruce Liesse SN006 Soon to be SM243 On Oct 11, 2022, at 4:20 AM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:
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Bill Schwanitz
HI Everyone, One cool trick I learned from Kent Robertson on S/V Kristy regarding jacklines is to twist the webbing as you run it from the forward to the aft cleats. This makes the webbing stand up off the deck just enough to make it easier to grab and clip into. He adds probably 5-6 twists/meter as he runs the webbing aft. Cheers, Bill Future Amel owner On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 4:49 PM Rob Andrews <robsclan@...> wrote: Hey Team. |
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Daniel Alexander Thompson
Their website had a "back soon" message on the homepage but I found a review of the lifejacket. Seems great. I wonder if a home made set up could be rigged to make every lifejacket do this. I'll get my thinking cap on.
Daniel Oronia Mango #14 |
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Daniel Alexander Thompson
A link to your article, Mark.
https://www.morganscloud.com/2016/11/11/banishing-sidedeck-jacklines-forever/ Daniel Oronia Mango #14 |
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Absolutely agree with Danny...
We have a Man Overboard rule...NOBODY falls overboard !! It is a recurring nightmare of it happening....so we try as much as possible to prevent it. I cannot imagine trying to pick up an overboiard crew in a South Pacifc gale with mounting seas ... it would be nigh on impossible. We have a jackline in the cockpit, fore and aft, crew coming on watch clip on to that before exiting the companionway and stay clipped on the whole watch. NOBODY goes on deck without someone else in the cockpit. IF ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY, crew going on deck clip ON to the deck line BEFORE unclipping from the cockpit line, and vice versa. Our jacklines go from the aft cleats around the cockpit / dodger to the mast, round the mast and then to the fwd cleats. We have extra tethers on both sides of the mast, to make transfer around the mast easier, without having to completely unclip. Our jaclkines are WICHARD webbing....and we take them off and store below when not at sea. Having said all that, we have rarely had the need to be on the foredeck in foul weather......prevention is better then cure...analyse intently what could go wrong, what could chafe / break, and fix it well before it does. Be careful out there Cheers Alan Elyse SM437 SAFETY is our NUMBER ONE priority when at sea |
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Daniel Alexander Thompson
Dear Alan
I'd love to understand better your system for jacklines in your cockpit. I clip on to the "stripper pole" in the middle of my cockpit but I find it very annoying when entering and exiting the helm. Daniel Oronia Mango #14 |
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Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
Hi Dave, it is an issue I have always had front of mind. And as I have said elsewhere, being towed at 8 knots survival is at most a matter of minutes. If someone has a solution with a new design great. This thread is very important in that it should raise awareness that a harness, tether and lifejacket are not lifesavers if you fall overboard unnoticed and the boat is not stopped immediately. .
Kind Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl
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Hi Daniel,
It's very simple. Theres a Wichard folding padeye through bolted just to the port side of the companionway, another through bolted at the base of the halyard box at the mizzen mast and there's a webbing jackline permanently attached to the companionway padeye, kept rolled up when not in use, which can be unrolled and clipped on to the padeye at the mizzen end. The webbing is just long enough to make it hard to clip on at the mizzen end, thus providing a central jackline in the cockpit for use at sea, which allows you to move around inside the cockpit while staying connected to the boat. We clip on to this line from the compabnionway before entering the cockpit and don't clip off until inside the boat again. Same method for going out of the cockpit with a double tether - clip on to the deck line before unclipping from the cockpiut line and the reverse when returning to the cockpit. It's all about staying on the boat. If we are mindful of the rule that says the people stay inside the boat, the water stays outside the boat, we should be OK. Cheers Alan Elyse SM437 |
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Thank you to everyone for your input.
I particularly like Danny's system of two sets; one from the windlass to the deck pad-eye for the mizzen ballooner, and another set in the "traditional" way. Our harnesses are all already fitted with both long and short tether lines, so this seems like the best option for us. I won't offer my view on particular procedures for when to tether or not, as I have noticed in over 50 years of sailing that everyone has a different threshold for risk management and some opinions are held very strongly and with great passion. :) Bill's point about putting twists in the webbing is a great reminder. This is common practice in dinghy/skiff/catamaran sailing and makes it super simple to attach to. The way our Amels are designed significantly reduces the required time outside the cockpit at sea compared to many other designs, and is one of the main reasons Dee and I chose to own one. Having said that, we all know that things break, fail or jam from time to time. Usually at the worst possible moment. Further, we are prolific users of our Main Ballooner, Mizzen Ballooner & Asymmetric Spinnaker where conditions allow, and all of these sails require leaving the cockpit to set and douse. Thanks again to everyone, and this group as a whole. (Responding now, as we are about to move to our next anchorage and I know there will be no internet coverage there) -- Rob & Dee SV Jaygo. SM#224 Brisbane, Australia |
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Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
Hi Daniel,
Alan and aare n agreement here. Same policy don't fall overboard. You ever know when your boat might do an unexpected lurch that could even tip you out of the Cockpit. However there is another reason,habit. Get into the habit of harnessing always and you will never rush on deck to fix something un harnessed. I dont have a jack line in the Cockpit, I attach to the frame across the back of the helm seat.
Kind Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl
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Eric Freedman
When I had Kimberlite built, I had Amel attach a Wichard folding pad eye 7 feet from the stern on both sides of the boat. If you are on a 6-foot tether you cannot go over the stern. I run them to the forward cleats. I also have one running from the Winch horn to the mizzen ballooner eye. The rule is no one is to go on deck unless someone else is in the cockpit. Fair Winds Eric Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io On Behalf Of Alan Leslie
Hi Daniel, |
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Daniel Alexander Thompson
Thank you, Alan. Appreciated. I'll do the same.
David and Danny. I have an idea in mind to retrofit normal lifejackets with backtow. I'll post a picture once I set it up. Re: twists in the webbing. I thought people used webbing lying flat on the deck so as not to be a trip hazard. Am I wrong? Is there another reason for webbing? Stronger? What about keeping sidedeck jacklines to only be used when crab crawling on a 50cm lifeline? Daniel Oronia |
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Hello Alan
I like your safety conscious approach about having everybody on watch being clipped to the Jackline and the extra on around the mast. where do you tie up the one in the cockpit ? A picture would help me ! kindest regards -- Nicolas Klene DarNico SM2K # 471 In Marseille |
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Hello Nicolas,
Not sure if this is what you mean.... It's kept rolled up attached to it's padeye at the companion way. It unrolls and is clipped on to the padeye at the mizzen rope box... Cheers Alan Elyse SM437 
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Hallo Mike Hello I bought some webbing on the internet. For me and a friend. 64 m for 44,5 Euro. You can buy it in any color, thickness, width and length. All you have to do is sew around the ends. I always leave them on deck. Even on short trips they can be much needed. Because of their flat shape they do not interfere. In addition a Lifebelt with 2 Belts and you are absolutely safe. As an attachment the photos. All the best Heinz blau Breite: 35mm Material: Polyester Dicke: 2,00mm Lager-Nr.: E67 Maßanfertigung: Produkthinweis: Die Meterware wird nach Kundenwunsch individuell abgeschnitten und ist daher vom Umtausch und Rückgabe ausgeschlossen. Art.Nr. xa_no: 11235, xf_no: 23568 64,0 lfm 0,70 EUR 44,80 EUR     Mit freundlichen Grüßen Heinz Stutenbäumer Am 17.10.2022 um 03:17 schrieb Nicolas Klene via groups.io <laixoi@...>:
-- Sv Quetzal, Supermaramu 2000, 292, cheers Heinz |
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