last idea and a question


Eric Freedman
 

_._,_._,_

If You happen to remove a gearbox. Clean it up and have it powder coated.

It should last forever. I put a flush plug in the drill holes for the grease fitting holes.  Incidentally I do not like the idea of a zerk grease fitting on the gearbox exposed to the salt.

 

My wheel was also looking sad, there was galvanic corrosion between the stripes that Amel put in the spokes, and the spokes of the wheel. I ordered a leather from Amel. It took six weeks, but they had it made and now it looks like new.

 

 

QUESTION,

The above 2 rigging photos are of my 2 forward lowers. I had all the standing rigging changed 2 ½ years ago by Amel in Martinique. I figured after 75,000+ miles and 18 years, it was time. I had the rig inspected numerous times with no problems.

 

A year and a half ago I went back to Martinique to have Amel check the tension on the new rigging and everything was “perfect”.  This fall while I was in St Maarten, I asked the riggers replace some running rigging.

As soon as the rigger stepped on board, he noticed both lowers had a wire that was cracked. I pulled the wire away from the swage so Amel could explain why this happened.

 

I wrote to Alban 5 times in Martinique at both addresses that I have, and he did not have the courtesy to answer me.

I finally had FKG rigging replace the broken wires. Very disappointing as Amel has always been super good with me over the 20 years I have had Kimberlite.

 

Does anyone have a guess why these 2 wires broke?

FKG did not have a clue. I measured the tension before the wires were changed and both the forward and aft lowers had the exact same tension.

 

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 


Chip Beaman
 

Eric,
Was that Acmo rigging?
CB
SM2K #430


On Jul 6, 2022, at 9:45 PM, Eric Freedman <kimberlite.ef@...> wrote:



20220421_190004.jpg20220401_134620.jpg20220315_213400.jpg20220315_213342.jpg


 

Eric,

Amel Martinique does not replace rigging and the Amel Martinique facility has been without office clerical help for a long time. 

I really hate to see the disparaging remark you made about Alban LEROY, the manager of Amel Martinique. I consider Alban one of the finest people in the world to help us with SMs, 54s, and 55s. He certainly is not infallible, but your message is posted without Alban having the ability to respond, and you are wrong about who installed your rigging. As you know, we ask that you refrain from criticism of persons or businesses in which you may have experienced unsatisfactory results, because it would be one-sided, without the ability of the other side to respond. 

I'll step in and give you a partial answer based on what I know. 
Almost all rigging replaced in Martinique is done by Caraibe Greement (Caribbean Rigging) I assume it is possible that Alban may have handled this for you as a contractor/subcontractor because he knows you, but normally he refers rigging work directly to Caraibe. I know Carabie, its owner, and its 8 managers well. I recommend them. Caraibe Greement uses German Stainless Steel wire and ACMO fittings. They have quality swage equipment and the 8 Caraibe companies are owned by PHILIPPE LECONTE <philippe@...>. The Rigging Manager is Gaëtan Rivet <gaetan@...>. Please read what is on my website regarding this company: https://preparetocastoff.blogspot.com/p/caraibe-marine.html

I do not know why you had a rigging failure, but you should contact the above for an answer.

Bill


CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   

On Wed, Jul 6, 2022 at 10:45 PM Eric Freedman <kimberlite.ef@...> wrote:


Bill Kinney
 

Eric, 

2 1/2 years is an extremely unusual (and worrisome) failure interval for stainless rigging.  By its location, the most likely culprit is the swage. One failure could be the result of a highly unusual case of bad luck. TWO indicates a serious systemic problem.  At the very least I would put the rig on a heightened inspection interval, of course including the swages on the top end of the wires.

I assume that the swages are stamped with the “ACMO” logo?  If they are not, then they are something else…

There are two types of swaging machines in use, a roll swager, and a rotary hammer swager. The rotary hammer swager is a very large, very expensive piece of equipment, and pretty much always produces a near perfect result… if the machine is adjusted correctly.    Most retail rigging shops have a roll swagger, which absolutely CAN make a perfect swage, but the end result is a more dependent on operator skill and attention as well as the maintenance of the machine.  Worn dies can, for example, compromise the end result.

A roll swaging machine tends to leave ridges that run straight down the length of the swage.  One made by a rotary hammer machine is almost smooth.

The only visual external symptom of a bad swage I know of is a curve in the crimped part of the swage.  If it looks AT ALL like a banana, it is bad.  Easy to check, just put a straightedge along the swage. If it is not absolutely bar straight, it was made badly and should have been rejected when it was made.

The other thing to check is the outside diameter of the swage and compare it to the specification for terminals for that size wire.  It is certainly possible that it was under, or over, crimped. Specifications here: https://www.ronstan.us/marine5/riggingrollswaging_data.asp  I haven’t found a similar page from ACMO, but I assume they have one hiding somewhere.  In any event, I assume that as a first cut the specifications are very close to the same.

The last diagnostic would be a destructive one, cutting a swage open.  Most informative to do it lengthwise. I find it hard to imagine that even inferior materials would have fatally damaging internal corrosion after this short a time… but it would be worth a look if nothing else can be found.

The only tuning error that could have contributed to this would be to have the wires MUCH too slack.  To the point that they were loose and floppy on the leeward side. I think you would have noticed!  With wires of this size it is a practical impossibility to over-tighten them with hand tools.  

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Port Louis, Grenada


Eric Freedman
 

Yes,

That was ACMO rigging.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io On Behalf Of Chip Beaman
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2022 1:03 AM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] last idea and a question

 

Eric,

Was that Acmo rigging?

CB

SM2K #430

 



On Jul 6, 2022, at 9:45 PM, Eric Freedman <kimberlite.ef@...> wrote:



20220421_190004.jpg20220401_134620.jpg20220315_213400.jpg20220315_213342.jpg


Eric Freedman
 

Bill,

Maud told me to contact Alban directly.

The rigging was done by Gaetan.

I can not accept Albans lack of response over a period of 3 month.

Fair Winds

Eric

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2022 12:25 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] last idea and a question

 

Eric,

 

Amel Martinique does not replace rigging and the Amel Martinique facility has been without office clerical help for a long time. 

 

I really hate to see the disparaging remark you made about Alban LEROY, the manager of Amel Martinique. I consider Alban one of the finest people in the world to help us with SMs, 54s, and 55s. He certainly is not infallible, but your message is posted without Alban having the ability to respond, and you are wrong about who installed your rigging. As you know, we ask that you refrain from criticism of persons or businesses in which you may have experienced unsatisfactory results, because it would be one-sided, without the ability of the other side to respond. 

 

I'll step in and give you a partial answer based on what I know. 

Almost all rigging replaced in Martinique is done by Caraibe Greement (Caribbean Rigging) I assume it is possible that Alban may have handled this for you as a contractor/subcontractor because he knows you, but normally he refers rigging work directly to Caraibe. I know Carabie, its owner, and its 8 managers well. I recommend them. Caraibe Greement uses German Stainless Steel wire and ACMO fittings. They have quality swage equipment and the 8 Caraibe companies are owned by PHILIPPE LECONTE <philippe@...>. The Rigging Manager is Gaëtan Rivet <gaetan@...>. Please read what is on my website regarding this company: https://preparetocastoff.blogspot.com/p/caraibe-marine.html

 

I do not know why you had a rigging failure, but you should contact the above for an answer.

 

Bill



Image removed by sender.

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

Image removed by sender. Image removed by sender. Image removed by sender. 

 

On Wed, Jul 6, 2022 at 10:45 PM Eric Freedman <kimberlite.ef@...> wrote:


Bill Kinney
 

We should be a bit careful when we talk about “ACMO Rigging.”  There are rigs that are manufactured by ACMO from parts they make and wire they buy, and there are rigs manufactured from ACMO parts by local riggers with wire they buy separately, and might include parts from other suppliers.

If your rigging parts are stamped with the ACMO brand label, the parts were made by ACMO.  If your swages are stamped with a date, the rig was assembled by ACMO. I do not know of any other rigger who does this.  If the date is missing, someone else assembled it.

Interestingly, 20+ years ago ACMO stamped the lower wire swages not with a date, but with the exact length of the assembled wire.  Eventually, they realized this gave away significant valuable information to potential competitors who didn’t need to actually measure an ACMO rig, just walk around the boat and note the numbers. Stamping with the date of the manufacture gives ACMO the data they need to pull the length from their files, but is no advantage to the competition. Your Amel related trivia for the day!

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Port Louis, Grenada