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Leece -Neville Alternator external regulator install

Dan Carlson
 

Doe anyone have a photo or two from installing an external regulator on their Leece-Neville 175amp alternator?  I have the wiring diagrams from a previous post but was wondering if someone had an actual photo of the wire that needs to be snipped? And any additional tips or caveats? 

I will be installing the WakeSpeed WS500 regulator. The wiring to the alternator for the WS500 looks very similar to the Balmar 624.

Thanks and regards, Daniel Carlson on SM#387, sv BeBe

Alan Leslie
 

Dan
I'm pretty sure that Bill and I put up all the relevant stuff.  I did it with a Next Step reg, but basically the wiring will be similar.
The wire you need is the field connection from the alternator, that's what the reg uses to control alternator output.
One caveat on this whole scenario is that you need to realise that the LN 175A alternator is not continuously rated 
So, with a 3 stage reg, if your batteries are quite discharged, the reg could command full output from the alternator and if your batteries are able to accept 175A, that's what you'll get... For a while until the alternator burns out! 
Solution is to also run the genset and the 100A charger until the charging current gets down to about 100A them turn off the genset.
Best solution is actually to change the alternator to an Idlepro Extreme or. Delstar, both of which can put out around 200A at just above idle.

You don't need to ask how I know this! 

Good luck

Alan
Elyse SM 437 

Dan Carlson
 

Thanks Alan,

That's helpful about the LN175 not being continuously rated. I had not seen that. In fact had seen that large body alternators loke the LN175 were better for handling the load.  That said, the WS500 regulator monitors both voltage and current at the battery and has a dip switch which will limit the alternator to 75% current output, it also has a temperature monitor that bolts onto one of the lugs which will also limits output based on alternator temperature.  And finally I will have a switch that I can flip to force the alternator into float mode. 

I will review the previous posts and pictures to see if there is anything that I have missed. 

Thanks and regards, Daniel Carlson on sv BeBe, SM# 387






On Wed, Nov 27, 2019, 12:01 AM Alan Leslie <s.v.elyse@... wrote:
Dan
I'm pretty sure that Bill and I put up all the relevant stuff.  I did it with a Next Step reg, but basically the wiring will be similar.
The wire you need is the field connection from the alternator, that's what the reg uses to control alternator output.
One caveat on this whole scenario is that you need to realise that the LN 175A alternator is not continuously rated 
So, with a 3 stage reg, if your batteries are quite discharged, the reg could command full output from the alternator and if your batteries are able to accept 175A, that's what you'll get... For a while until the alternator burns out! 
Solution is to also run the genset and the 100A charger until the charging current gets down to about 100A them turn off the genset.
Best solution is actually to change the alternator to an Idlepro Extreme or. Delstar, both of which can put out around 200A at just above idle.

You don't need to ask how I know this! 

Good luck

Alan
Elyse SM 437 

rossirossix4
 

Dan and Alan-
Fascinating stuff (as I think ahead to a lithium conversion).  This video does a good job of discussing and demonstrating what you are writing about AND talks about problems with low RPM/high charging situations. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgoIocPgOug

Bob, KAIMI SM429
Trying to save up money for them thar newfangled Lithiums

Alan Leslie
 

Yes Bob,
Traditional alternators can be a problem.
Remember though that on our boats there is a 1:2 ratio between engine rpm and alternator rpm so when the engine is doing 1000rpm the alternator is doing 2000.
This is where alternators like Delstar and Idlepro Extreme come into their own. These are 220/250amp alternators that can deliver 80-90% of rated output @ 2000 alternator rpm.
The standard LN175 can't do that and if you increase the rpm to produce more amps it will only do it for a while before everything turns to custard. 
We have big battery banks that can have very high charge acceptance rates with AGM,  firefly or lithium batteries,  so you need to think about these things very carefully in designing and operating a system that will achieve what you want safely.
Cheers 
Alan
Elyse SM 437 

Dan Carlson
 

Does anyone know what the safe continuous output for the LN175 would be? Or any information on the out put curve specific to this alternator.  I don't recall seeing it. Just the 175 amp rating. 


On Thu, Nov 28, 2019, 4:18 AM Alan Leslie <s.v.elyse@... wrote:
Yes Bob,
Traditional alternators can be a problem.
Remember though that on our boats there is a 1:2 ratio between engine rpm and alternator rpm so when the engine is doing 1000rpm the alternator is doing 2000.
This is where alternators like Delstar and Idlepro Extreme come into their own. These are 220/250amp alternators that can deliver 80-90% of rated output @ 2000 alternator rpm.
The standard LN175 can't do that and if you increase the rpm to produce more amps it will only do it for a while before everything turns to custard. 
We have big battery banks that can have very high charge acceptance rates with AGM,  firefly or lithium batteries,  so you need to think about these things very carefully in designing and operating a system that will achieve what you want safely.
Cheers 
Alan
Elyse SM 437 

Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica
 

Hello Dan,

I used the VSR sailors project regulator from Al Thomason. 
I am very satisfied with it. 
Since then I dont have wear off pullys and the regulator offers all parameters to customize beside all standard charge programs. 

I dont know if my wiring or fotos will help you? 

Oliver from Vela Nautica Amel54 #39 
Gran Canaria SPAIN 

On Thu, Nov 28, 2019, 13:43 Dan Carlson <carlsdan61@...> wrote:
Does anyone know what the safe continuous output for the LN175 would be? Or any information on the out put curve specific to this alternator.  I don't recall seeing it. Just the 175 amp rating. 

On Thu, Nov 28, 2019, 4:18 AM Alan Leslie <s.v.elyse@... wrote:
Yes Bob,
Traditional alternators can be a problem.
Remember though that on our boats there is a 1:2 ratio between engine rpm and alternator rpm so when the engine is doing 1000rpm the alternator is doing 2000.
This is where alternators like Delstar and Idlepro Extreme come into their own. These are 220/250amp alternators that can deliver 80-90% of rated output @ 2000 alternator rpm.
The standard LN175 can't do that and if you increase the rpm to produce more amps it will only do it for a while before everything turns to custard. 
We have big battery banks that can have very high charge acceptance rates with AGM,  firefly or lithium batteries,  so you need to think about these things very carefully in designing and operating a system that will achieve what you want safely.
Cheers 
Alan
Elyse SM 437 

Dan Carlson
 

Thanks for the information Oliver.

Do you have the Leece Neville 175A alternator on your boat?  If so the one picture that would be helpful is the actual wiring of the regulator behind the cap and the new connections into it.   And also if you have the LN175, it would be helpful to know the max current that you draw from it? 

Thanks and regards, Daniel Carlson on sv BeBe, SM#387, Shelter Bay, Panama



On Fri, Nov 29, 2019, 3:13 AM Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica <oliver.henrichsen@... wrote:
Hello Dan,

I used the VSR sailors project regulator from Al Thomason. 
I am very satisfied with it. 
Since then I dont have wear off pullys and the regulator offers all parameters to customize beside all standard charge programs. 

I dont know if my wiring or fotos will help you? 

Oliver from Vela Nautica Amel54 #39 
Gran Canaria SPAIN 

On Thu, Nov 28, 2019, 13:43 Dan Carlson <carlsdan61@...> wrote:
Does anyone know what the safe continuous output for the LN175 would be? Or any information on the out put curve specific to this alternator.  I don't recall seeing it. Just the 175 amp rating. 

On Thu, Nov 28, 2019, 4:18 AM Alan Leslie <s.v.elyse@... wrote:
Yes Bob,
Traditional alternators can be a problem.
Remember though that on our boats there is a 1:2 ratio between engine rpm and alternator rpm so when the engine is doing 1000rpm the alternator is doing 2000.
This is where alternators like Delstar and Idlepro Extreme come into their own. These are 220/250amp alternators that can deliver 80-90% of rated output @ 2000 alternator rpm.
The standard LN175 can't do that and if you increase the rpm to produce more amps it will only do it for a while before everything turns to custard. 
We have big battery banks that can have very high charge acceptance rates with AGM,  firefly or lithium batteries,  so you need to think about these things very carefully in designing and operating a system that will achieve what you want safely.
Cheers 
Alan
Elyse SM 437 

Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica
 

Helli Dan,

Yes i got the 175A Alternator with double pully belt setup. 

At this time I limited the current to max 90 A. I could do more but I dont need to. I installed a 14.4 kWh Lithium batterie and most times when cruising I arrive with 90% charged batterie. The good side is also there is no more worn belts because the permanent load is lower now.

Do you have the Leece Neville document TSB-1139_8SC_WIRING_DIAGRAM?

Thats what I used to identify the connections. If you need to access the fiel contacts you may get the replacement back cap or just drill a wider hole through the original and use a hear resistant silicone wire and heat resistent gasket maker Silikone to access the field contact.

To access the stator I disconnected the original regulator and used the upper slot to pass the wires. I set the old regulator back as cap, disconnected. 

Oliver from Vela Nautica Amel54 #39 
Gran Canaria SPAIN 

On Fri, Nov 29, 2019, 13:18 Dan Carlson <carlsdan61@...> wrote:
Thanks for the information Oliver.

Do you have the Leece Neville 175A alternator on your boat?  If so the one picture that would be helpful is the actual wiring of the regulator behind the cap and the new connections into it.   And also if you have the LN175, it would be helpful to know the max current that you draw from it? 

Thanks and regards, Daniel Carlson on sv BeBe, SM#387, Shelter Bay, Panama



On Fri, Nov 29, 2019, 3:13 AM Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica <oliver.henrichsen@... wrote:
Hello Dan,

I used the VSR sailors project regulator from Al Thomason. 
I am very satisfied with it. 
Since then I dont have wear off pullys and the regulator offers all parameters to customize beside all standard charge programs. 

I dont know if my wiring or fotos will help you? 

Oliver from Vela Nautica Amel54 #39 
Gran Canaria SPAIN 

On Thu, Nov 28, 2019, 13:43 Dan Carlson <carlsdan61@...> wrote:
Does anyone know what the safe continuous output for the LN175 would be? Or any information on the out put curve specific to this alternator.  I don't recall seeing it. Just the 175 amp rating. 

On Thu, Nov 28, 2019, 4:18 AM Alan Leslie <s.v.elyse@... wrote:
Yes Bob,
Traditional alternators can be a problem.
Remember though that on our boats there is a 1:2 ratio between engine rpm and alternator rpm so when the engine is doing 1000rpm the alternator is doing 2000.
This is where alternators like Delstar and Idlepro Extreme come into their own. These are 220/250amp alternators that can deliver 80-90% of rated output @ 2000 alternator rpm.
The standard LN175 can't do that and if you increase the rpm to produce more amps it will only do it for a while before everything turns to custard. 
We have big battery banks that can have very high charge acceptance rates with AGM,  firefly or lithium batteries,  so you need to think about these things very carefully in designing and operating a system that will achieve what you want safely.
Cheers 
Alan
Elyse SM 437 

Dan Carlson
 

Thanks for the reply Oliver,

Very helpful information.  The Wakespeed 500 regulator has a dip switch setting that limits the alternator to 75% or 130 Amps (or further with programing). It will further limit output if the temperature goes up to high.  And I have a switch that can also set it directly to float charge level (current flow neutral).

I do have the wiring diagram you referenced as well as one from this forum with some specific notes on where wires connect.  But your comments on the how you modiifed the existing regulator cap for the wiring are very helpful.

Thanks and regards, Daniel Carlson on sv BeBe, SM#387






On Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 1:08 PM Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica <oliver.henrichsen@... wrote:
Helli Dan,

Yes i got the 175A Alternator with double pully belt setup. 

At this time I limited the current to max 90 A. I could do more but I dont need to. I installed a 14.4 kWh Lithium batterie and most times when cruising I arrive with 90% charged batterie. The good side is also there is no more worn belts because the permanent load is lower now.

Do you have the Leece Neville document TSB-1139_8SC_WIRING_DIAGRAM?

Thats what I used to identify the connections. If you need to access the fiel contacts you may get the replacement back cap or just drill a wider hole through the original and use a hear resistant silicone wire and heat resistent gasket maker Silikone to access the field contact.

To access the stator I disconnected the original regulator and used the upper slot to pass the wires. I set the old regulator back as cap, disconnected. 

Oliver from Vela Nautica Amel54 #39 
Gran Canaria SPAIN 

On Fri, Nov 29, 2019, 13:18 Dan Carlson <carlsdan61@...> wrote:
Thanks for the information Oliver.

Do you have the Leece Neville 175A alternator on your boat?  If so the one picture that would be helpful is the actual wiring of the regulator behind the cap and the new connections into it.   And also if you have the LN175, it would be helpful to know the max current that you draw from it? 

Thanks and regards, Daniel Carlson on sv BeBe, SM#387, Shelter Bay, Panama



On Fri, Nov 29, 2019, 3:13 AM Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica <oliver.henrichsen@... wrote:
Hello Dan,

I used the VSR sailors project regulator from Al Thomason. 
I am very satisfied with it. 
Since then I dont have wear off pullys and the regulator offers all parameters to customize beside all standard charge programs. 

I dont know if my wiring or fotos will help you? 

Oliver from Vela Nautica Amel54 #39 
Gran Canaria SPAIN 

On Thu, Nov 28, 2019, 13:43 Dan Carlson <carlsdan61@...> wrote:
Does anyone know what the safe continuous output for the LN175 would be? Or any information on the out put curve specific to this alternator.  I don't recall seeing it. Just the 175 amp rating. 

On Thu, Nov 28, 2019, 4:18 AM Alan Leslie <s.v.elyse@... wrote:
Yes Bob,
Traditional alternators can be a problem.
Remember though that on our boats there is a 1:2 ratio between engine rpm and alternator rpm so when the engine is doing 1000rpm the alternator is doing 2000.
This is where alternators like Delstar and Idlepro Extreme come into their own. These are 220/250amp alternators that can deliver 80-90% of rated output @ 2000 alternator rpm.
The standard LN175 can't do that and if you increase the rpm to produce more amps it will only do it for a while before everything turns to custard. 
We have big battery banks that can have very high charge acceptance rates with AGM,  firefly or lithium batteries,  so you need to think about these things very carefully in designing and operating a system that will achieve what you want safely.
Cheers 
Alan
Elyse SM 437