Lessons Learned #lessons


Patrick McAneny
 

I was thinking that maybe we should have a file section ,where owners could list facts or lessons they have learned ,where they could pass them on so that other owners do not make the same mistakes . An owner could go down the list ,read them and learn from other's mistakes. 
To that end ,I thought I would pass on something I just learned ,that many of you probably already know ,but perhaps  not all. 
I have been losing zincs , for years at an accelerated rate , so I have always replaced my zincs religiously . I have made attempts to find the cause ,asked a electrical mechanic assess the problem ,then it would fall off my radar for awhile.
This week ,upon Bill's advise I purchase a voltage meter ,not one with a light ,but a digital one that showed voltage. I connected the pig tail to the quadrant/zinc and contacted the probe to the positive and neg. battery terminals. It showed nothing on the neg. terminal ,but it showed voltage on the positive terminal on both my 24v and 12 v . That meant that I had a negative leak on both the 12v and 24v side.
I had a couple of conversations with Bill ,and I thank him for his time, we trouble shot the issue and possible causes. I concentrated my search mostly in the engine room and in a couple of hours I discovered what my two issues were. 
The 12v side was the result of a previous owner having connected a neg. wire from the starter to the fuel pump shut off ,this should be run thru a relay ,I need to look at another SM with a Volvo TMD22A to see how to wire it. That was unique to my boat. The 24v. side is a mistake that I want to pass on ,so others don't make the same mistake.
I disconnected  the 24v ground wire off my alternator and found that I had continuity between the terminal and the alternator case,which means continuity between the terminal and the bonding system since the engine is bonded. Once disconnected ,the 24v leak was gone .
This is the lesson I learned : I did not realize that alternator terminals are not necessarily isolated ,more often they are not ,as it does not matter on most boats. So if you purchase an alternator ,make sure it has an isolated ground and if you have a neg. leak ,check to see if your alternator may be the problem.
Hope this helps,
Pat
SM Shenanigans
Sassafras River, Md.


Eric Freedman
 

Pat,

The isolated ground alternators usually have a piece of black plastic under the mounting stud. It is quite easy to visually separate the isolated ones from the non-isolated ones.

Fair Winds

Eric

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io On Behalf Of Patrick McAneny via groups.io
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2021 8:53 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Lessons Learned

 

I was thinking that maybe we should have a file section ,where owners could list facts or lessons they have learned ,where they could pass them on so that other owners do not make the same mistakes . An owner could go down the list ,read them and learn from other's mistakes. 
To that end ,I thought I would pass on something I just learned ,that many of you probably already know ,but perhaps  not all. 
I have been losing zincs , for years at an accelerated rate , so I have always replaced my zincs religiously . I have made attempts to find the cause ,asked a electrical mechanic assess the problem ,then it would fall off my radar for awhile.
This week ,upon Bill's advise I purchase a voltage meter ,not one with a light ,but a digital one that showed voltage. I connected the pig tail to the quadrant/zinc and contacted the probe to the positive and neg. battery terminals. It showed nothing on the neg. terminal ,but it showed voltage on the positive terminal on both my 24v and 12 v . That meant that I had a negative leak on both the 12v and 24v side.
I had a couple of conversations with Bill ,and I thank him for his time, we trouble shot the issue and possible causes. I concentrated my search mostly in the engine room and in a couple of hours I discovered what my two issues were. 
The 12v side was the result of a previous owner having connected a neg. wire from the starter to the fuel pump shut off ,this should be run thru a relay ,I need to look at another SM with a Volvo TMD22A to see how to wire it. That was unique to my boat. The 24v. side is a mistake that I want to pass on ,so others don't make the same mistake.
I disconnected  the 24v ground wire off my alternator and found that I had continuity between the terminal and the alternator case,which means continuity between the terminal and the bonding system since the engine is bonded. Once disconnected ,the 24v leak was gone .
This is the lesson I learned : I did not realize that alternator terminals are not necessarily isolated ,more often they are not ,as it does not matter on most boats. So if you purchase an alternator ,make sure it has an isolated ground and if you have a neg. leak ,check to see if your alternator may be the problem.
Hope this helps,
Pat
SM Shenanigans
Sassafras River, Md.


Patrick McAneny
 

Eric, I have a new one being shipped, I will compare it to what i have now. The point I was making ,is that there may be others that may purchase and install an alternator without considering if it isolated or not. It never dawned on me to question it, until i was cleaning the connection this week and checked the continuity .
Thanks,
Pat


-----Original Message-----
From: eric freedman <kimberlite@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Fri, Aug 6, 2021 3:36 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Lessons Learned

Pat,
The isolated ground alternators usually have a piece of black plastic under the mounting stud. It is quite easy to visually separate the isolated ones from the non-isolated ones.
Fair Winds
Eric
 
 
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io On Behalf Of Patrick McAneny via groups.io
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2021 8:53 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Lessons Learned
 
I was thinking that maybe we should have a file section ,where owners could list facts or lessons they have learned ,where they could pass them on so that other owners do not make the same mistakes . An owner could go down the list ,read them and learn from other's mistakes. 
To that end ,I thought I would pass on something I just learned ,that many of you probably already know ,but perhaps  not all. 
I have been losing zincs , for years at an accelerated rate , so I have always replaced my zincs religiously . I have made attempts to find the cause ,asked a electrical mechanic assess the problem ,then it would fall off my radar for awhile.
This week ,upon Bill's advise I purchase a voltage meter ,not one with a light ,but a digital one that showed voltage. I connected the pig tail to the quadrant/zinc and contacted the probe to the positive and neg. battery terminals. It showed nothing on the neg. terminal ,but it showed voltage on the positive terminal on both my 24v and 12 v . That meant that I had a negative leak on both the 12v and 24v side.
I had a couple of conversations with Bill ,and I thank him for his time, we trouble shot the issue and possible causes. I concentrated my search mostly in the engine room and in a couple of hours I discovered what my two issues were. 
The 12v side was the result of a previous owner having connected a neg. wire from the starter to the fuel pump shut off ,this should be run thru a relay ,I need to look at another SM with a Volvo TMD22A to see how to wire it. That was unique to my boat. The 24v. side is a mistake that I want to pass on ,so others don't make the same mistake.
I disconnected  the 24v ground wire off my alternator and found that I had continuity between the terminal and the alternator case,which means continuity between the terminal and the bonding system since the engine is bonded. Once disconnected ,the 24v leak was gone .
This is the lesson I learned : I did not realize that alternator terminals are not necessarily isolated ,more often they are not ,as it does not matter on most boats. So if you purchase an alternator ,make sure it has an isolated ground and if you have a neg. leak ,check to see if your alternator may be the problem.
Hope this helps,
Pat
SM Shenanigans
Sassafras River, Md.


Alan Leslie
 

We have a "Files" section already.....



Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Jeff Williams
 

I think a Lessons Learned section is an excellent idea.    Pilots file reports when they mess up so everyone can learn from it.  

Jeff
S/V Spruzzo

On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 1:22 AM Patrick McAneny via groups.io <sailw32=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Eric, I have a new one being shipped, I will compare it to what i have now. The point I was making ,is that there may be others that may purchase and install an alternator without considering if it isolated or not. It never dawned on me to question it, until i was cleaning the connection this week and checked the continuity .
Thanks,
Pat



-----Original Message-----
From: eric freedman <kimberlite@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Fri, Aug 6, 2021 3:36 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Lessons Learned

Pat,
The isolated ground alternators usually have a piece of black plastic under the mounting stud. It is quite easy to visually separate the isolated ones from the non-isolated ones.
Fair Winds
Eric
 
 
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io On Behalf Of Patrick McAneny via groups.io
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2021 8:53 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Lessons Learned
 
I was thinking that maybe we should have a file section ,where owners could list facts or lessons they have learned ,where they could pass them on so that other owners do not make the same mistakes . An owner could go down the list ,read them and learn from other's mistakes. 
To that end ,I thought I would pass on something I just learned ,that many of you probably already know ,but perhaps  not all. 
I have been losing zincs , for years at an accelerated rate , so I have always replaced my zincs religiously . I have made attempts to find the cause ,asked a electrical mechanic assess the problem ,then it would fall off my radar for awhile.
This week ,upon Bill's advise I purchase a voltage meter ,not one with a light ,but a digital one that showed voltage. I connected the pig tail to the quadrant/zinc and contacted the probe to the positive and neg. battery terminals. It showed nothing on the neg. terminal ,but it showed voltage on the positive terminal on both my 24v and 12 v . That meant that I had a negative leak on both the 12v and 24v side.
I had a couple of conversations with Bill ,and I thank him for his time, we trouble shot the issue and possible causes. I concentrated my search mostly in the engine room and in a couple of hours I discovered what my two issues were. 
The 12v side was the result of a previous owner having connected a neg. wire from the starter to the fuel pump shut off ,this should be run thru a relay ,I need to look at another SM with a Volvo TMD22A to see how to wire it. That was unique to my boat. The 24v. side is a mistake that I want to pass on ,so others don't make the same mistake.
I disconnected  the 24v ground wire off my alternator and found that I had continuity between the terminal and the alternator case,which means continuity between the terminal and the bonding system since the engine is bonded. Once disconnected ,the 24v leak was gone .
This is the lesson I learned : I did not realize that alternator terminals are not necessarily isolated ,more often they are not ,as it does not matter on most boats. So if you purchase an alternator ,make sure it has an isolated ground and if you have a neg. leak ,check to see if your alternator may be the problem.
Hope this helps,
Pat
SM Shenanigans
Sassafras River, Md.


Patrick McAneny
 

I know we have a files section ,I guess I should have been more specific ,and suggested a category titled within the file section to list things learned or mistakes discovered ,that may be passed on to others ,so they may learn from mistakes made,such as me installing a alternator that did not have an isolated negative terminal.
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Leslie <s.v.elyse@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Fri, Aug 6, 2021 6:25 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Lessons Learned

We have a "Files" section already.....



Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Patrick McAneny
 

Jeff, That is exactly what I was suggesting , the example of pilot's reports is a good analogy . We have rather complicated boats and I think it would be interesting and helpful to be able to read /review in one location /file , all the lessons learned or mistakes discovered by all the owners over the years. I have owned my boat for 16 years and still have lessons to learn.
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Williams <jeff99williams@...>
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Aug 7, 2021 12:53 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Lessons Learned

I think a Lessons Learned section is an excellent idea.    Pilots file reports when they mess up so everyone can learn from it.  

Jeff
S/V Spruzzo

On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 1:22 AM Patrick McAneny via groups.io <sailw32=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Eric, I have a new one being shipped, I will compare it to what i have now. The point I was making ,is that there may be others that may purchase and install an alternator without considering if it isolated or not. It never dawned on me to question it, until i was cleaning the connection this week and checked the continuity .
Thanks,
Pat



-----Original Message-----
From: eric freedman <kimberlite@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Fri, Aug 6, 2021 3:36 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Lessons Learned

Pat,
The isolated ground alternators usually have a piece of black plastic under the mounting stud. It is quite easy to visually separate the isolated ones from the non-isolated ones.
Fair Winds
Eric
 
 
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io On Behalf Of Patrick McAneny via groups.io
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2021 8:53 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Lessons Learned
 
I was thinking that maybe we should have a file section ,where owners could list facts or lessons they have learned ,where they could pass them on so that other owners do not make the same mistakes . An owner could go down the list ,read them and learn from other's mistakes. 
To that end ,I thought I would pass on something I just learned ,that many of you probably already know ,but perhaps  not all. 
I have been losing zincs , for years at an accelerated rate , so I have always replaced my zincs religiously . I have made attempts to find the cause ,asked a electrical mechanic assess the problem ,then it would fall off my radar for awhile.
This week ,upon Bill's advise I purchase a voltage meter ,not one with a light ,but a digital one that showed voltage. I connected the pig tail to the quadrant/zinc and contacted the probe to the positive and neg. battery terminals. It showed nothing on the neg. terminal ,but it showed voltage on the positive terminal on both my 24v and 12 v . That meant that I had a negative leak on both the 12v and 24v side.
I had a couple of conversations with Bill ,and I thank him for his time, we trouble shot the issue and possible causes. I concentrated my search mostly in the engine room and in a couple of hours I discovered what my two issues were. 
The 12v side was the result of a previous owner having connected a neg. wire from the starter to the fuel pump shut off ,this should be run thru a relay ,I need to look at another SM with a Volvo TMD22A to see how to wire it. That was unique to my boat. The 24v. side is a mistake that I want to pass on ,so others don't make the same mistake.
I disconnected  the 24v ground wire off my alternator and found that I had continuity between the terminal and the alternator case,which means continuity between the terminal and the bonding system since the engine is bonded. Once disconnected ,the 24v leak was gone .
This is the lesson I learned : I did not realize that alternator terminals are not necessarily isolated ,more often they are not ,as it does not matter on most boats. So if you purchase an alternator ,make sure it has an isolated ground and if you have a neg. leak ,check to see if your alternator may be the problem.
Hope this helps,
Pat
SM Shenanigans
Sassafras River, Md.