LiFePO4 Batteries, what they can do for you.


Ken Powers SV Aquarius
 

Hello All,

I have uploaded a video, and think it has a lot of useful information.  Just got back to Aquarius, had to do the 10 day quarantine to get back into Thailand, but the Thai Government jjust raised quarantine time back to 14 days for those arriving now.  Made it just in time....  As I type this message, it's 3:50AM here in Thailand, and I am almost 15 hours into my battery capacity test after a year with Lithium Valley LiFePO4 batteries.  I bought 600AH at 24V of Lithium Valley LiFePO4 Batteries.  I charged the batteries fully with my Victron 3000/70 Inverter/Charger to 28.4V, then unplugged the shore power connection at 1PM yesterday afternoon.  As I am on the hard, I went down stairs and unplugged Aquarius from the power connection.  The AC power is now supplied by the Victron 3000/70 Inverter/Charger.  I turned on my portable AC unit that draws about 35Amps, and now almost 15 hours later I am still running the AC.  I have pulled over 490AH out of the batteries and currently sitting at 25.98V while pulling 33.4A.  In 3 hours my test will be complete, after I have pulled over 500AH from the batteries.  My alarm is set, we will see just how well these batteries perform after a year on Aquarius.

Here is more information about the set up, and how I maintain my batteries.  Hope it helps answer some questions about LiFePO4 batteries.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RN0m-jZJapU

Ken Powers
Sailing Aquarius
SM2K#262
Currently in Thailand (on the hard)
Getter her ready to cross the Indian Ocean


Justin Maguire
 

I’m so excited to see this… I take delivery of my new Amell 50 in a week and a half and it has 800 amp hours of 24 V lithium with 1200 watts of solar. 

I think the main difference is that we also have an induction stove… So I’m very curious to see what my actual usage will result in terms of How often I need to run the generator


On May 6, 2021, at 13:57, Ken Powers SV Aquarius <ken@...> wrote:

Hello All,

I have uploaded a video, and think it has a lot of useful information.  Just got back to Aquarius, had to do the 10 day quarantine to get back into Thailand, but the Thai Government jjust raised quarantine time back to 14 days for those arriving now.  Made it just in time....  As I type this message, it's 3:50AM here in Thailand, and I am almost 15 hours into my battery capacity test after a year with Lithium Valley LiFePO4 batteries.  I bought 600AH at 24V of Lithium Valley LiFePO4 Batteries.  I charged the batteries fully with my Victron 3000/70 Inverter/Charger to 28.4V, then unplugged the shore power connection at 1PM yesterday afternoon.  As I am on the hard, I went down stairs and unplugged Aquarius from the power connection.  The AC power is now supplied by the Victron 3000/70 Inverter/Charger.  I turned on my portable AC unit that draws about 35Amps, and now almost 15 hours later I am still running the AC.  I have pulled over 490AH out of the batteries and currently sitting at 25.98V while pulling 33.4A.  In 3 hours my test will be complete, after I have pulled over 500AH from the batteries.  My alarm is set, we will see just how well these batteries perform after a year on Aquarius.

Here is more information about the set up, and how I maintain my batteries.  Hope it helps answer some questions about LiFePO4 batteries.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RN0m-jZJapU

Ken Powers
Sailing Aquarius
SM2K#262
Currently in Thailand (on the hard)
Getter her ready to cross the Indian Ocean


Ken Powers SV Aquarius
 

Hello Justin,

It's now 8:51AM here in Thailand, and I just finished the capacity test.  I left the Aircon running until 8:20AM, that's 19 hours 20 minutes pulling 32 to 35 Amps.  These batteries are 1 year old LiFePO4 batteries from Lithium Valley.  The batteries cost $3500 delivered to Phuket Thailand.  

This is unbelievable, but true.

With 1200 watts of solar the only reason you would NEED to run the generator is NO sun.  But, you may WANT to run the generator because you want to run the AC for more that 6 or 7 hours a day.   Let's just say this - you probably wouldn't miss your genset much if you took off for a two week trip with a inop genset.


Ken On Aquarius
SM2K#262
In Thailand


Brent Cameron
 

That's pretty spectacular Ken...  imagine if you bought that third battery you have space for - 900 Amps is a LOT of juice.  These Lithium batteries are going to change the way we all cruise.   I like the fact that yours are 24V batteries and you don't need to go Series/Parallel (although under the covers presumably they are just like 12V batteries are a series of cells).  I am curious about the BMS what happens when a cell goes bad.  I imagine it takes down the whole 24V battery pack - perhaps some more justification to Admiral Z for getting the third!  :-). 
--
Brent Cameron

Future Amel Owner & Amel Owner Registry Moderator

Oro-Medonte, Ontario, Canada


Justin Maguire
 

Thanks Ken! You’re inspiring confidence in me! Are you running an electric stove? 


On May 6, 2021, at 19:26, Ken Powers SV Aquarius <ken@...> wrote:

Hello Justin,

It's now 8:51AM here in Thailand, and I just finished the capacity test.  I left the Aircon running until 8:20AM, that's 19 hours 20 minutes pulling 32 to 35 Amps.  These batteries are 1 year old LiFePO4 batteries from Lithium Valley.  The batteries cost $3500 delivered to Phuket Thailand.  

This is unbelievable, but true.

With 1200 watts of solar the only reason you would NEED to run the generator is NO sun.  But, you may WANT to run the generator because you want to run the AC for more that 6 or 7 hours a day.   Let's just say this - you probably wouldn't miss your genset much if you took off for a two week trip with a inop genset.


Ken On Aquarius
SM2K#262
In Thailand


Ken Powers SV Aquarius
 

Brent,

Though it's not likely for one cell to go bad, if it happened I should be able  to open the battery and replace the cell.  

Ken Powers


Ken Powers SV Aquarius
 
Edited

Hello Justin,

No I don't use an electric stove.  1) I like to use gas, 2) I probably will buy a portable induction stove top in the future for redundancy.  

If the electric goes down for some reason, I want to be able to make a cup of hot tea if I want it.

Ken Powers,
Aquarius SM2K#262
Thailand


Nick Fowle SM 404 Rascal
 

Rascal is all electric galley wise. I have a ceramic hob(not induction) with electric oven and an separate convection oven. All 230v . Battery bank is 600AmpH of Lithium (battleborn, and I have a Quattro 3KW inverter / charger ) I cook mostly on hob, or use my Instant pot. The only time I run the genset specifically for galley is if the batteries are around 35% because the weather hasn’t been kind to my solar / wind setup. Otherwise if the batteries are around the 50% mark I may occasionally run the genset if I’m baking something for longer than 30mins and even then I’ll try and coincide this with running water maker or hot water and very rarely aircon etc 

….. 

the lithium set up is for me an excellent solution especially on anchor here in West Indies, but you do need a strong, consistent  and reliable way to charge them. I use a combination of solar (1.3KW now and looking to add another 500-600wts and a Silent wind) I try and only use genset when it’s been very overcast / rainy for a few days and batteries are low, tends to be in the evenings for obvious reasons. 

If I do motor between anchorages then it’s possible that i don’t run the genset for weeks as long as the weather has been kind. On average  I probably run the genset once a week for around 60mins. Once A month I have to balance the batteries, so will run the genset to fully charge the battery bank, which according to BB balances the bank efficiently, but I tend to try and do that if I’m in a Marina or having to motor for whatever reason. 

I would like a hydro generator for longer passages, especially the Wattamdsea Pod 600… but I don’t think the cost / efficiency/ hassle to to fit algorithm  makes sense right now. 

I think I would question the validity of the investment for Lithium if one spends a great deal of time on shore power. 

Nick
SV Rascal
SM 404
Grenada

Sent from ProtonMail for iOS


On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 2:20 AM, Ken Powers SV Aquarius <ken@...> wrote:
Hello Justin,

No I don't use an electric stove.  1) I like to use gas, 2) I probably will buy a portable induction stove top in the future for redundancy.  

If the electric goes down for some reason, I want to be able to make hot a cup of hot tea if I want it.

Ken Powers,
Aquarius SM2K#262
Thailand 



Justin Maguire
 

Thank you nick - my goal with 1200watts of solar and 800ah of lithium was to run the gene set once a week... 

This would let me make water and do the wash, as well as give the gen set enough run time not to have its own issues from too little use! 


On May 7, 2021, at 05:36, Nick Fowle SM 404 Rascal via groups.io <svrascal@...> wrote:

 Rascal is all electric galley wise. I have a ceramic hob(not induction) with electric oven and an separate convection oven. All 230v . Battery bank is 600AmpH of Lithium (battleborn, and I have a Quattro 3KW inverter / charger ) I cook mostly on hob, or use my Instant pot. The only time I run the genset specifically for galley is if the batteries are around 35% because the weather hasn’t been kind to my solar / wind setup. Otherwise if the batteries are around the 50% mark I may occasionally run the genset if I’m baking something for longer than 30mins and even then I’ll try and coincide this with running water maker or hot water and very rarely aircon etc 

….. 

the lithium set up is for me an excellent solution especially on anchor here in West Indies, but you do need a strong, consistent  and reliable way to charge them. I use a combination of solar (1.3KW now and looking to add another 500-600wts and a Silent wind) I try and only use genset when it’s been very overcast / rainy for a few days and batteries are low, tends to be in the evenings for obvious reasons. 

If I do motor between anchorages then it’s possible that i don’t run the genset for weeks as long as the weather has been kind. On average  I probably run the genset once a week for around 60mins. Once A month I have to balance the batteries, so will run the genset to fully charge the battery bank, which according to BB balances the bank efficiently, but I tend to try and do that if I’m in a Marina or having to motor for whatever reason. 

I would like a hydro generator for longer passages, especially the Wattamdsea Pod 600… but I don’t think the cost / efficiency/ hassle to to fit algorithm  makes sense right now. 

I think I would question the validity of the investment for Lithium if one spends a great deal of time on shore power. 

Nick
SV Rascal
SM 404
Grenada

Sent from ProtonMail for iOS


On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 2:20 AM, Ken Powers SV Aquarius <ken@...> wrote:
Hello Justin,

No I don't use an electric stove.  1) I like to use gas, 2) I probably will buy a portable induction stove top in the future for redundancy.  

If the electric goes down for some reason, I want to be able to make hot a cup of hot tea if I want it.

Ken Powers,
Aquarius SM2K#262
Thailand 



Nick Fowle SM 404 Rascal
 

Justin, 

Like many algorithmic solutions pertaining to sailing the answer is very specific to ones own situation and needs. Worth mentioning that I sail solo so my consumption is specific to me and may not equate to your own situation. Unfortunately   I do not have a washing machine , so that forms no part in my assumptions or variables.  But with 800ah of lithium here in the West Indies  I am pretty sure I would only run the genset to balance the batteries. 

I can’t increase battery bank capacity without a huge investment which makes no sense , but if I was doing it again, I think this would make sense as per Ken’s observations. However I am pretty certain  that based off where I am currently sailing, and the current seasonal weather , if I added another 400-500 wts of efficient solar , the genset would be close to redundant or a back up only for consistently bad weather or MPPT failures etc 

When I leave Grenada in July and start making my way west, and my partner joins me ( hairdryers etc 🙄) the situation will no doubt change.

Nick
SV Rascal
SM 404
Grenada 

Sent from ProtonMail for iOS


On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 9:26 AM, Justin Maguire <justin_maguire@...> wrote:
Thank you nick - my goal with 1200watts of solar and 800ah of lithium was to run the gene set once a week... 

This would let me make water and do the wash, as well as give the gen set enough run time not to have its own issues from too little use! 


On May 7, 2021, at 05:36, Nick Fowle SM 404 Rascal via groups.io <svrascal@...> wrote:

 Rascal is all electric galley wise. I have a ceramic hob(not induction) with electric oven and an separate convection oven. All 230v . Battery bank is 600AmpH of Lithium (battleborn, and I have a Quattro 3KW inverter / charger ) I cook mostly on hob, or use my Instant pot. The only time I run the genset specifically for galley is if the batteries are around 35% because the weather hasn’t been kind to my solar / wind setup. Otherwise if the batteries are around the 50% mark I may occasionally run the genset if I’m baking something for longer than 30mins and even then I’ll try and coincide this with running water maker or hot water and very rarely aircon etc 

….. 

the lithium set up is for me an excellent solution especially on anchor here in West Indies, but you do need a strong, consistent  and reliable way to charge them. I use a combination of solar (1.3KW now and looking to add another 500-600wts and a Silent wind) I try and only use genset when it’s been very overcast / rainy for a few days and batteries are low, tends to be in the evenings for obvious reasons. 

If I do motor between anchorages then it’s possible that i don’t run the genset for weeks as long as the weather has been kind. On average  I probably run the genset once a week for around 60mins. Once A month I have to balance the batteries, so will run the genset to fully charge the battery bank, which according to BB balances the bank efficiently, but I tend to try and do that if I’m in a Marina or having to motor for whatever reason. 

I would like a hydro generator for longer passages, especially the Wattamdsea Pod 600… but I don’t think the cost / efficiency/ hassle to to fit algorithm  makes sense right now. 

I think I would question the validity of the investment for Lithium if one spends a great deal of time on shore power. 

Nick
SV Rascal
SM 404
Grenada

Sent from ProtonMail for iOS


On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 2:20 AM, Ken Powers SV Aquarius <ken@...> wrote:
Hello Justin,

No I don't use an electric stove.  1) I like to use gas, 2) I probably will buy a portable induction stove top in the future for redundancy.  

If the electric goes down for some reason, I want to be able to make hot a cup of hot tea if I want it.

Ken Powers,
Aquarius SM2K#262
Thailand 





Eric Meury
 

suggestions on where to add lithium on a santorin


On Fri, May 7, 2021, 3:49 PM Nick Fowle SM 404 Rascal via groups.io <svrascal=protonmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Justin, 

Like many algorithmic solutions pertaining to sailing the answer is very specific to ones own situation and needs. Worth mentioning that I sail solo so my consumption is specific to me and may not equate to your own situation. Unfortunately   I do not have a washing machine , so that forms no part in my assumptions or variables.  But with 800ah of lithium here in the West Indies  I am pretty sure I would only run the genset to balance the batteries. 

I can’t increase battery bank capacity without a huge investment which makes no sense , but if I was doing it again, I think this would make sense as per Ken’s observations. However I am pretty certain  that based off where I am currently sailing, and the current seasonal weather , if I added another 400-500 wts of efficient solar , the genset would be close to redundant or a back up only for consistently bad weather or MPPT failures etc 

When I leave Grenada in July and start making my way west, and my partner joins me ( hairdryers etc 🙄) the situation will no doubt change.

Nick
SV Rascal
SM 404
Grenada 

Sent from ProtonMail for iOS


On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 9:26 AM, Justin Maguire <justin_maguire@...> wrote:
Thank you nick - my goal with 1200watts of solar and 800ah of lithium was to run the gene set once a week... 

This would let me make water and do the wash, as well as give the gen set enough run time not to have its own issues from too little use! 


On May 7, 2021, at 05:36, Nick Fowle SM 404 Rascal via groups.io <svrascal=protonmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

 Rascal is all electric galley wise. I have a ceramic hob(not induction) with electric oven and an separate convection oven. All 230v . Battery bank is 600AmpH of Lithium (battleborn, and I have a Quattro 3KW inverter / charger ) I cook mostly on hob, or use my Instant pot. The only time I run the genset specifically for galley is if the batteries are around 35% because the weather hasn’t been kind to my solar / wind setup. Otherwise if the batteries are around the 50% mark I may occasionally run the genset if I’m baking something for longer than 30mins and even then I’ll try and coincide this with running water maker or hot water and very rarely aircon etc 

….. 

the lithium set up is for me an excellent solution especially on anchor here in West Indies, but you do need a strong, consistent  and reliable way to charge them. I use a combination of solar (1.3KW now and looking to add another 500-600wts and a Silent wind) I try and only use genset when it’s been very overcast / rainy for a few days and batteries are low, tends to be in the evenings for obvious reasons. 

If I do motor between anchorages then it’s possible that i don’t run the genset for weeks as long as the weather has been kind. On average  I probably run the genset once a week for around 60mins. Once A month I have to balance the batteries, so will run the genset to fully charge the battery bank, which according to BB balances the bank efficiently, but I tend to try and do that if I’m in a Marina or having to motor for whatever reason. 

I would like a hydro generator for longer passages, especially the Wattamdsea Pod 600… but I don’t think the cost / efficiency/ hassle to to fit algorithm  makes sense right now. 

I think I would question the validity of the investment for Lithium if one spends a great deal of time on shore power. 

Nick
SV Rascal
SM 404
Grenada

Sent from ProtonMail for iOS


On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 2:20 AM, Ken Powers SV Aquarius <ken@...> wrote:
Hello Justin,

No I don't use an electric stove.  1) I like to use gas, 2) I probably will buy a portable induction stove top in the future for redundancy.  

If the electric goes down for some reason, I want to be able to make hot a cup of hot tea if I want it.

Ken Powers,
Aquarius SM2K#262
Thailand 





Dan Carlson
 

Hi Ken, we bought an induction job and we are starting to like it for certain things. Especially in hot climates as there is so much less wasted heat in the galley.  Start with the job and see how you like it. 

Best regards, Daniel Carlson on sv BeBe, SM#387

On Fri, May 7, 2021, 2:21 AM Ken Powers SV Aquarius <ken@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Hello Justin,

No I don't use an electric stove.  1) I like to use gas, 2) I probably will buy a portable induction stove top in the future for redundancy.  

If the electric goes down for some reason, I want to be able to make a cup of hot tea if I want it.

Ken Powers,
Aquarius SM2K#262
Thailand


Jose Venegas
 

Hi Daniel
Did you mount it on top of the gas stove or did you replace it like delos did? What brand and model?
Thanks
José Gabriel Venegas
Ipanema SM2k 278


Dan Carlson
 

Jose, we purchased a Tefal IH2108 in Martinique. We can set it on the dishwasher, counter or on top of a curting board in the stove top. Nothing special about it. We just wanted something to try.
It has 7 power levels that go up to 2100 watts. 

For rice in the pressure cooker we start at power level 4 for about four minute to bring it up to pressure and then reduce to level 2 for two to three more minutes, then off. Set the pressure cooker to the side for about 15 minutes while you stir fry some meat and veggies and when that's done you have dinner. All uses about 10-20 AH of 24v energy. 

Regards Daniel Carlson on sv BeBe SM#387




On Sun, May 9, 2021, 10:24 AM Jose Venegas via groups.io <josegvenegas=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Daniel
Did you mount it on top of the gas stove or did you replace it like delos did?  What brand and model?
Thanks
José Gabriel Venegas
Ipanema SM2k 278






Regards Geoff Kidd - Hopefully on track to sign as SV KEYDAH Merchant
 

Dan.

May I ask please whether your Induction Cooktop has any adverse effect on your main compass or your autopilot when you are cooking on it?


Dan Carlson
 

Good question Geoff,

We have not observed any impact, however, we've primarily used it at anchor, and only underway under very benign conditions as it is not secure. Although it seems to gimbal on the stovetop ok.

The instructions recommend that you not set it directly on metal stove top burners? So we put a cutting board in between. 

It generates a high frequency oscillating magnetic field, and a pan must be on it. If you lift the pan off to store or ?? It will beep and reduce power until pan is replaced. 

So the magnetic field decreases exponentially based on the distance.  

Our helm compass is about 2 meters away from the cooktop and the autopilot compass is even further.

This is not my area of expertise but I have worked with several different applications of magnetic fields and proximity was always the key. 

Best regards, Daniel Carlson on sv BeBe


On Mon, May 10, 2021, 6:39 AM Regards Geoff Kidd - Hopefully on track to sign as SV KEYDAH Merchant <gwk13@...> wrote:
Dan.

May I ask please whether your Induction Cooktop has any adverse effect on your main compass or your autopilot when you are cooking on it?


Regards Geoff Kidd - Hopefully on track to sign as SV KEYDAH Merchant
 

Thanks for your response Dan.

And apologies, Ken, for diverting from your original subject. I will apologise to your face when watching your next Aquarious video.