Lines for down wind poles


Fisher, Thomas W.
 

Hello Everyone,

 

The lines to support the downwind poles on our Sharki were missing (except for one) when we purchased our boat back in 2006. The setup I rigged up has worked for many years but is also in need of refreshing.

 

The questions I have are

 

1.        what is the correct colour coding for the lines (if there is one)

2.       Do the lines need to be Dynamic (lots of stretch). The one original we have seems to be a ++ dynamic line

3.       What sort of breaking strength rating should the lines have

 

Any assistance appreciated

 

Thanks,

 

Tom Fisher

 

SV SHEILA

Sharki #142, Ontario Canada

 


Bill Kinney
 

Tom,

I am not sure it matters, but the "official" Amel colors were:

Foreguy:  Blue
Downhaul:  Yellow
AfterGuy:  Red.
Topping lift:  White or tan

On the Super Maramu, the topping lift was specified as 10mm polyester double braid.

All the others were specified as a brand name, "Tempest" and 14mm diameter.  My research hasn't turned up any details about what exactly "Tempest" line was, but it certainly looks like polyester double braid.  Breaking strength is not an issue for these lines, they are not heavily loaded.

Since you are handling all--except the topping lift--by hand, even on the smaller Sharki I'd stick with the 14 mm, certainly no smaller than 12mm.  Not for strength, but just for ease of handling.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Port Louis, Grenada
http://www.cruisingconsulting.com


 

Tom,

Bill K's info is perfect. If anyone wants more detail on the SM:
Fore Guy: Tempest Blue diameter 14, length 17m Mark at 11m
Aft Guy: Tempest Red diameter 14, length 9.5m Mark at 7.35m
Down Guy: Tempest Yellow tip: diameter 14, length 6m Mark at 4.11m
Up Guy: White diameter 10, length 16m Polyester Mark at 12.75m    


CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   

On Tue, Sep 20, 2022 at 9:11 PM Bill Kinney <cruisingconsulting@...> wrote:
Tom,

I am not sure it matters, but the "official" Amel colors were:

Foreguy:  Blue
Downhaul:  Yellow
AfterGuy:  Red.
Topping lift:  White or tan

On the Super Maramu, the topping lift was specified as 10mm polyester double braid.

All the others were specified as a brand name, "Tempest" and 14mm diameter.  My research hasn't turned up any details about what exactly "Tempest" line was, but it certainly looks like polyester double braid.  Breaking strength is not an issue for these lines, they are not heavily loaded.

Since you are handling all--except the topping lift--by hand, even on the smaller Sharki I'd stick with the 14 mm, certainly no smaller than 12mm.  Not for strength, but just for ease of handling.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Port Louis, Grenada
http://www.cruisingconsulting.com


Fisher, Thomas W.
 

Thanks very much for this info!!

 

Greatly appreciated

 

Tom

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse
Sent: September 21, 2022 9:03 AM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Lines for down wind poles

 

CAUTION:  This email was sent from a user outside of KHSC. The KHSC Help Desk will never ask you to share or verify your user name and password. If you suspect this is a phishing or fraudulent email, please forward it to KHSC Help Desk.

 

Tom,

 

Bill K's info is perfect. If anyone wants more detail on the SM:

Fore Guy: Tempest Blue diameter 14, length 17m Mark at 11m
Aft Guy: Tempest Red diameter 14, length 9.5m Mark at 7.35m
Down Guy: Tempest Yellow tip: diameter 14, length 6m Mark at 4.11m
Up Guy: White diameter 10, length 16m Polyester Mark at 12.75m    



CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

   

 

On Tue, Sep 20, 2022 at 9:11 PM Bill Kinney <cruisingconsulting@...> wrote:

Tom,

I am not sure it matters, but the "official" Amel colors were:

Foreguy:  Blue
Downhaul:  Yellow
AfterGuy:  Red.
Topping lift:  White or tan

On the Super Maramu, the topping lift was specified as 10mm polyester double braid.

All the others were specified as a brand name, "Tempest" and 14mm diameter.  My research hasn't turned up any details about what exactly "Tempest" line was, but it certainly looks like polyester double braid.  Breaking strength is not an issue for these lines, they are not heavily loaded.

Since you are handling all--except the topping lift--by hand, even on the smaller Sharki I'd stick with the 14 mm, certainly no smaller than 12mm.  Not for strength, but just for ease of handling.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Port Louis, Grenada
http://www.cruisingconsulting.com


Fisher, Thomas W.
 

I was just re reading this

Could one of you please elaborate. What is the purpose of the mark at ex 11m.  there was no accompanying documentation with or Sharki so I’ve been making it up as we go.

 

I’m also curious about the correct block placement for the fore and aft lines.

Really appreciate to advice

 

Thanks,

 

Tom

 

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse
Sent: September 21, 2022 9:03 AM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Lines for down wind poles

 

CAUTION:  This email was sent from a user outside of KHSC. The KHSC Help Desk will never ask you to share or verify your user name and password. If you suspect this is a phishing or fraudulent email, please forward it to KHSC Help Desk.

 

Tom,

 

Bill K's info is perfect. If anyone wants more detail on the SM:

Fore Guy: Tempest Blue diameter 14, length 17m Mark at 11m
Aft Guy: Tempest Red diameter 14, length 9.5m Mark at 7.35m
Down Guy: Tempest Yellow tip: diameter 14, length 6m Mark at 4.11m
Up Guy: White diameter 10, length 16m Polyester Mark at 12.75m    



CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

   

 

On Tue, Sep 20, 2022 at 9:11 PM Bill Kinney <cruisingconsulting@...> wrote:

Tom,

I am not sure it matters, but the "official" Amel colors were:

Foreguy:  Blue
Downhaul:  Yellow
AfterGuy:  Red.
Topping lift:  White or tan

On the Super Maramu, the topping lift was specified as 10mm polyester double braid.

All the others were specified as a brand name, "Tempest" and 14mm diameter.  My research hasn't turned up any details about what exactly "Tempest" line was, but it certainly looks like polyester double braid.  Breaking strength is not an issue for these lines, they are not heavily loaded.

Since you are handling all--except the topping lift--by hand, even on the smaller Sharki I'd stick with the 14 mm, certainly no smaller than 12mm.  Not for strength, but just for ease of handling.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Port Louis, Grenada
http://www.cruisingconsulting.com


 

Tom,

The standard SM lines were marked at the approximate location to cleat the line to either a winch or a deck cleak. Amel stopped this "Marking" with the introduction of the A54. I encourage all owners or all models using the pole "guys" to mark them at the approximate attachment point. It makes things easier with new crew.

Bill


CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   

On Wed, Sep 21, 2022 at 10:54 AM Fisher, Thomas W. <tom.fisher@...> wrote:

I was just re reading this

Could one of you please elaborate. What is the purpose of the mark at ex 11m.  there was no accompanying documentation with or Sharki so I’ve been making it up as we go.

 

I’m also curious about the correct block placement for the fore and aft lines.

Really appreciate to advice

 

Thanks,

 

Tom

 

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse
Sent: September 21, 2022 9:03 AM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Lines for down wind poles

 

CAUTION:  This email was sent from a user outside of KHSC. The KHSC Help Desk will never ask you to share or verify your user name and password. If you suspect this is a phishing or fraudulent email, please forward it to KHSC Help Desk.

 

Tom,

 

Bill K's info is perfect. If anyone wants more detail on the SM:

Fore Guy: Tempest Blue diameter 14, length 17m Mark at 11m
Aft Guy: Tempest Red diameter 14, length 9.5m Mark at 7.35m
Down Guy: Tempest Yellow tip: diameter 14, length 6m Mark at 4.11m
Up Guy: White diameter 10, length 16m Polyester Mark at 12.75m    



CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

   

 

On Tue, Sep 20, 2022 at 9:11 PM Bill Kinney <cruisingconsulting@...> wrote:

Tom,

I am not sure it matters, but the "official" Amel colors were:

Foreguy:  Blue
Downhaul:  Yellow
AfterGuy:  Red.
Topping lift:  White or tan

On the Super Maramu, the topping lift was specified as 10mm polyester double braid.

All the others were specified as a brand name, "Tempest" and 14mm diameter.  My research hasn't turned up any details about what exactly "Tempest" line was, but it certainly looks like polyester double braid.  Breaking strength is not an issue for these lines, they are not heavily loaded.

Since you are handling all--except the topping lift--by hand, even on the smaller Sharki I'd stick with the 14 mm, certainly no smaller than 12mm.  Not for strength, but just for ease of handling.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Port Louis, Grenada
http://www.cruisingconsulting.com


Fisher, Thomas W.
 

Thanks Bill

 

Makes Sense!

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse
Sent: September 21, 2022 12:15 PM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Lines for down wind poles

 

CAUTION:  This email was sent from a user outside of KHSC. The KHSC Help Desk will never ask you to share or verify your user name and password. If you suspect this is a phishing or fraudulent email, please forward it to KHSC Help Desk.

 

Tom,

 

The standard SM lines were marked at the approximate location to cleat the line to either a winch or a deck cleak. Amel stopped this "Marking" with the introduction of the A54. I encourage all owners or all models using the pole "guys" to mark them at the approximate attachment point. It makes things easier with new crew.

 

Bill



CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

   

 

On Wed, Sep 21, 2022 at 10:54 AM Fisher, Thomas W. <tom.fisher@...> wrote:

I was just re reading this

Could one of you please elaborate. What is the purpose of the mark at ex 11m.  there was no accompanying documentation with or Sharki so I’ve been making it up as we go.

 

I’m also curious about the correct block placement for the fore and aft lines.

Really appreciate to advice

 

Thanks,

 

Tom

 

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse
Sent: September 21, 2022 9:03 AM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Lines for down wind poles

 

CAUTION:  This email was sent from a user outside of KHSC. The KHSC Help Desk will never ask you to share or verify your user name and password. If you suspect this is a phishing or fraudulent email, please forward it to KHSC Help Desk.

 

Tom,

 

Bill K's info is perfect. If anyone wants more detail on the SM:

Fore Guy: Tempest Blue diameter 14, length 17m Mark at 11m
Aft Guy: Tempest Red diameter 14, length 9.5m Mark at 7.35m
Down Guy: Tempest Yellow tip: diameter 14, length 6m Mark at 4.11m
Up Guy: White diameter 10, length 16m Polyester Mark at 12.75m    



CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

   

 

On Tue, Sep 20, 2022 at 9:11 PM Bill Kinney <cruisingconsulting@...> wrote:

Tom,

I am not sure it matters, but the "official" Amel colors were:

Foreguy:  Blue
Downhaul:  Yellow
AfterGuy:  Red.
Topping lift:  White or tan

On the Super Maramu, the topping lift was specified as 10mm polyester double braid.

All the others were specified as a brand name, "Tempest" and 14mm diameter.  My research hasn't turned up any details about what exactly "Tempest" line was, but it certainly looks like polyester double braid.  Breaking strength is not an issue for these lines, they are not heavily loaded.

Since you are handling all--except the topping lift--by hand, even on the smaller Sharki I'd stick with the 14 mm, certainly no smaller than 12mm.  Not for strength, but just for ease of handling.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Port Louis, Grenada
http://www.cruisingconsulting.com


David Vogel
 

Regarding the question: "Do the lines need to be Dynamic (lots of stretch)." Answer: Yes.

Avoid any temptation to replace with low-stretch (e.g. dyneema) lines.

Rationale: In the event of dipping the end of the pole in the water, a high wave, greater roll, whatever, the sail, pole, and control lines, will be exposed to water-loads, at many times greater than the air-loads. If you are doing any sort of speed, then the loads well may be enough to break something. We have seen well over 8.5 knots sustained STW when at the 20knot wind-speed limit, when holding a wave - and that was with 2 rolls on the genoa furler. The momentum in the boat at that speed is awesome, and dunking the clew of either the genoa or ballooner at that speed is not something I would want to experience.

I mention this further info on the basis of advice received from another SM owner who mentioned that he had experienced this - dipping a pole at speed - and the elasticity in the AMEL-specified lines enabled the submarined pole to pivot past its camming point, and "retract" to its aft-wards-most position. Reportedly, the crash-bang noise of it arriving home was horrendous, but the only damage was that the safety-rail was bent. I don’t know what, if any, damage was sustained to the fore-guy, but having a weaker line (one just strong enough to bear the working loads), in preference to stronger (greater diameter) lines, means that the weakest-link can give-way before loads are transferred to (and structural damage is sustained by) another part of the boat - such as pulling out or deforming deck cleats, or overloading mast fittings, or some such.

Hope this helps.

David
SM#396, Perigee
NZ

From: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Bill Kinney <cruisingconsulting@...>
Reply to: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Date: Wednesday, 21 September 2022 at 2:11 pm
To: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Lines for down wind poles

Tom,

I am not sure it matters, but the "official" Amel colors were:

Foreguy:  Blue
Downhaul:  Yellow
AfterGuy:  Red.
Topping lift:  White or tan

On the Super Maramu, the topping lift was specified as 10mm polyester double braid.

All the others were specified as a brand name, "Tempest" and 14mm diameter.  My research hasn't turned up any details about what exactly "Tempest" line was, but it certainly looks like polyester double braid.  Breaking strength is not an issue for these lines, they are not heavily loaded.

Since you are handling all--except the topping lift--by hand, even on the smaller Sharki I'd stick with the 14 mm, certainly no smaller than 12mm.  Not for strength, but just for ease of handling.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Port Louis, Grenada
http://www.cruisingconsulting.com