Lithium Conversion
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Andrew & Kate Lamb
We just finished a conversion to Lithium batteries, I am happy to share directly the details of the installation. What may be of interest to SM owners with the large battery compartment is that we were able to fit neatly 4 Litime 24V 200AH (providing 800AH) Lithium batteries in (see photo) with no need to cut the wooden retaining bar of the cover. Was keen to use 24V batteries to potentially simplify equalization. The Litime batteries come with a good manual and a 5 year guarantee.
Andrew
Ronpische SM472 |
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Nice! Good job! We also chose 24 volts to simplify balancing. |
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Hi Andrew
well done for the conversion, did you have to change the 2 original dolphin chargers ? i am very interested to have your installation details Laixoi@... thanks a lot -- Nicolas Klene DarNico SM2K # 471 In Marseille 🇫🇷 |
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Chris Paul
Hi Andrew, Well done & thank you for sharing. I see you retained the 12V starting battery in its original position. I also have a lithium battery & happy to share. I used individual 3.2V, 300AH cells and my own carpentry to constrain the cells We now cook with electricity & having a large capacity LFP battery means we do not have to charge frequently. Our solar panels are 800W but soon upgrading to 1600W. Hopefully, at that point we will not have to use the generator or shore power very frequently. In my photo you can see: 12V starting battery (& Victron 24V-12V charger to right of starter battery) Two 12V batteries Lead Acid (LA) in series (under starting battery) Victron 24V-24V DC charger) I kept these 2 batteries for 3 reasons: - back up 12V if needed for starting using jumper leads - 24V back up if lithium 24V fails (I feel more secure knowing they are there). - possibility of paralleling the LFP & LA batteries The main Lithium battery bank - underneath the timber covers - incase I drop a spanner! Also timber holds batteries in place with the timber bar under the passageway bunk. The configuration is 3 Parallel and 8 LFP cells in series making 24V & 900AH The Orion BMS is visible (lower right of photo) it has battery balancing but I also installed another (parallel) battery balancer for extra peace of mind. I split the lithium into 3 parts (Positive Charge, Positive Discharge and Negative - each with a seperate bus). This simplified the wiring on the master isolator switches.  Regards, Chris Paul Whangarei, NZ GLAZIG SM352
On Tuesday, 14 March 2023 at 03:55:24 am NZDT, Andrew & Kate Lamb <andrew@...> wrote:
We just finished a conversion to Lithium batteries, I am happy to share directly the details of the installation. What may be of interest to SM owners with the large battery compartment is that we were able to fit neatly 4 Litime 24V 200AH (providing 800AH) Lithium batteries in (see photo) with no need to cut the wooden retaining bar of the cover. Was keen to use 24V batteries to potentially simplify equalization. The Litime batteries come with a good manual and a 5 year guarantee.
Andrew
Ronpische SM472 |
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Andrew & Kate Lamb
Hi Chris
This looks a great solution and a very good use of the space available – it also represents a lot of excellent work! You make valid points about a backup 12V starter solution - I have yet to consider this – probably we will go with a backup 12V LA battery but I am interested in investigating a powerful DC/DC option also. How are you managing to get 1600W of solar power?
Andrew
Ronpische SM472 Canet-en-roussillon
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
<main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Paul via groups.io
Sent: 15 March 2023 04:40 To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Lithium Conversion
Hi Andrew, Well done & thank you for sharing. I see you retained the 12V starting battery in its original position.
I also have a lithium battery & happy to share. I used individual 3.2V, 300AH cells and my own carpentry to constrain the cells We now cook with electricity & having a large capacity LFP battery means we do not have to charge frequently. Our solar panels are 800W but soon upgrading to 1600W. Hopefully, at that point we will not have to use the generator or shore power very frequently.
In my photo you can see: 12V starting battery (& Victron 24V-12V charger to right of starter battery)
Two 12V batteries Lead Acid (LA) in series (under starting battery) Victron 24V-24V DC charger) I kept these 2 batteries for 3 reasons: - back up 12V if needed for starting using jumper leads - 24V back up if lithium 24V fails (I feel more secure knowing they are there). - possibility of paralleling the LFP & LA batteries
The main Lithium battery bank - underneath the timber covers - incase I drop a spanner! Also timber holds batteries in place with the timber bar under the passageway bunk. The configuration is 3 Parallel and 8 LFP cells in series making 24V & 900AH
The Orion BMS is visible (lower right of photo) it has battery balancing but I also installed another (parallel) battery balancer for extra peace of mind.
I split the lithium into 3 parts (Positive Charge, Positive Discharge and Negative - each with a seperate bus). This simplified the wiring on the master isolator switches.
Regards, Chris Paul Whangarei, NZ GLAZIG SM352
On Tuesday, 14 March 2023 at 03:55:24 am NZDT, Andrew & Kate Lamb <andrew@...> wrote:
We just finished a conversion to Lithium batteries, I am happy to share directly the details of the installation. What may be of interest to SM owners with the large battery compartment is that we were able to fit neatly 4 Litime 24V 200AH (providing 800AH) Lithium batteries in (see photo) with no need to cut the wooden retaining bar of the cover. Was keen to use 24V batteries to potentially simplify equalization. The Litime batteries come with a good manual and a 5 year guarantee.
Andrew
Ronpische SM472 |
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HI Chris, I'm interested to know how you plan to get 1600W of solar? I was trying to upgrade this year to 1200- 1275W with three Sunpower Max3 400 or 425W panels, but I just cannot get my hands on them in Greece.
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Stefan Jeukendrup
Hi Chris, 3 panels Trina Solar Vertex S 400W peak in parallel. I regularly see charge go over 25A @24V here. Not in Scotland in winter of cause... These panels work better with the sun at a low angle. The half cells work well against partial shading. Stefan Jeukendrup sv Malaka Queen SM2k #348 @Portsmouth Dominica Op 16 mrt. 2023 09:13 schreef Dean Gillies <stella@...>:
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Chris Paul
Hi Andrew Solar 800W on the rear arch & another 800W (2 x maxeon 400W) on another arch (not completed yet) above the cockpit bimini & under the boom. These panels were chosen because they cope with shading very well. I thought about putting flexible solar on top of the bimini but concluded that the constant rubbing of the solar panels against the bimini could easily destroy the canvass. Regards, Chris Paul SV GLAZIG SM352
On Thursday, 16 March 2023 at 10:40:13 pm NZDT, Andrew & Kate Lamb <andrew@...> wrote:
Hi Chris
This looks a great solution and a very good use of the space available – it also represents a lot of excellent work! You make valid points about a backup 12V starter solution - I have yet to consider this – probably we will go with a backup 12V LA battery but I am interested in investigating a powerful DC/DC option also. How are you managing to get 1600W of solar power?
Andrew
Ronpische SM472 Canet-en-roussillon
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
<main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Paul via groups.io
Sent: 15 March 2023 04:40 To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Lithium Conversion
Hi Andrew, Well done & thank you for sharing. I see you retained the 12V starting battery in its original position.
I also have a lithium battery & happy to share. I used individual 3.2V, 300AH cells and my own carpentry to constrain the cells We now cook with electricity & having a large capacity LFP battery means we do not have to charge frequently. Our solar panels are 800W but soon upgrading to 1600W. Hopefully, at that point we will not have to use the generator or shore power very frequently.
In my photo you can see: 12V starting battery (& Victron 24V-12V charger to right of starter battery)
Two 12V batteries Lead Acid (LA) in series (under starting battery) Victron 24V-24V DC charger) I kept these 2 batteries for 3 reasons: - back up 12V if needed for starting using jumper leads - 24V back up if lithium 24V fails (I feel more secure knowing they are there). - possibility of paralleling the LFP & LA batteries
The main Lithium battery bank - underneath the timber covers - incase I drop a spanner! Also timber holds batteries in place with the timber bar under the passageway bunk. The configuration is 3 Parallel and 8 LFP cells in series making 24V & 900AH
The Orion BMS is visible (lower right of photo) it has battery balancing but I also installed another (parallel) battery balancer for extra peace of mind.
I split the lithium into 3 parts (Positive Charge, Positive Discharge and Negative - each with a seperate bus). This simplified the wiring on the master isolator switches.
Regards, Chris Paul Whangarei, NZ GLAZIG SM352
On Tuesday, 14 March 2023 at 03:55:24 am NZDT, Andrew & Kate Lamb <andrew@...> wrote:
We just finished a conversion to Lithium batteries, I am happy to share directly the details of the installation. What may be of interest to SM owners with the large battery compartment is that we were able to fit neatly 4 Litime 24V 200AH (providing 800AH) Lithium batteries in (see photo) with no need to cut the wooden retaining bar of the cover. Was keen to use 24V batteries to potentially simplify equalization. The Litime batteries come with a good manual and a 5 year guarantee.
Andrew
Ronpische SM472 |
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Chris Paul
Hi Stefan, Interesting solar set up you have. I am pleased to hear that the special cells work well for low sun angles & partial shading. I can see 3 attachment points in the front of the fibreglass spray dodger (maybe 1" stainless tube). Also I can see a side attachment point - presumably bolted through the fibreglass spray dodger and into the main hull using the existing bolt. I am guessing you used the forward mizzen shrouds to secure the rear of the panels. The set up I am planning has only 2 x 400W panels with a gap of approximately 500mm in the middle. I am happy to post some photos when it is completed. Hi Dean, Maybe the Lithium list should be renamed the Onan list! With enough solar/wind maybe the Onan could be given the "deep 6" and the list problems solved forever! Seriously, I have 800W of solar on the rear arch and that just fits without overhanging the sides. I'm planning for another 800W above the bimini. That will fit comfortably. (probably could go to 900W or even 1000W without overhanging bimini) The other place I have contemplated for solar is the rear side railings. I believe about 400W (maybe even 600W) could be located there. Also, I like the idea of a superwind generator (350W) on top of the mizzen. I am still not sure if a wind generator would work efficiently for Lithium batteries in parallel with solar MPPT. My guess is that at 2400W you would no longer need the Onan generator. Regards, Chris Paul SV GLAZIG SM352
On Friday, 17 March 2023 at 02:47:00 am NZDT, Stefan Jeukendrup <sjeukendrup@...> wrote:
Hi Chris, 3 panels Trina Solar Vertex S 400W peak in parallel. I regularly see charge go over 25A @24V here. Not in Scotland in winter of cause... These panels work better with the sun at a low angle. The half cells work well against partial shading. Stefan Jeukendrup sv Malaka Queen SM2k #348 @Portsmouth Dominica Op 16 mrt. 2023 09:13 schreef Dean Gillies <stella@...>:
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Maybe the Lithium list should be renamed the Onan list! Fair call Chris, the Onan is on the other side of the equation! Looking forward to seeing your solar panel setup. Im rather jealous that you have been able to source the larger Maxeon 3's, so far I have failed completely to find them in Greece. I'll keep sailing with my existing panels this summer. |
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Tony Elliott
Hello Chris, beautiful install and what a coincidence. I too am installing solar and Lithium on Grand Cru as I write this. The first phase of my solar install (900W) is almost complete and I have 24 3.2V 304AHr LiFePo cells on board to install in an 8S3P configuration for 25.6v/912AHr. I have attached a circuit diagram of what I was planning and would really like your input given your experience on the topic. I too had planned to fill the battery compartment with an additional 24V AGM backup simply because the space is available.
Can I ask you to expand on your install and provide some additional details? Specifically; which BMS did you use (specs), which redundant balancer did you use? How did you split the LiFePo bank into three busses? how did you connect the bank to the main switches etc. Again, beautiful install! Thanks in advance, Tony SM#443 Grand Cru |
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Chris Paul
Hi Tony Thanks for your circuit diagram. Yes very similar to mine. I don't have a good circuit diagram I am still working on it. Please see attached word document. I have taken many photos & tried to label the parts for you to see. The BMS is an ORION Jr BMS2 model #J2BMS16C. (recommended by the installer) I am not sure of the brand for the extra balancer & it is not written on it. The installer suggested it was prudent so he just did it & charged $600! He said it could handle up to 6A between cells. The photos hopefully show how the bank was split into 3 busses. The ON/OFF switch is now done by relay. (small low amperage switch on the switch panel operating 500A relays "C" & "D" - see 3rd last photo). This was a difficult & time consuming project. I thought I could do it myself but ended up needing lots of help from a professional. As the batteries were sourced from China & much of the less skilled work (carpentry, layout etc) was done by me this install cost far less than a drop-in LFP installation. I figured as the batteries were cheap and I had a dedicated battery box why not fill it up with batteries & use as many of my old LA batteries as possible for redundancy Regards, Chris Paul (0427788800)
On Sunday, 19 March 2023 at 06:37:26 am NZDT, Tony Elliott <tonye@...> wrote:
Hello Chris, beautiful install and what a coincidence. I too am installing solar and Lithium on Grand Cru as I write this. The first phase of my solar install (900W) is almost complete and I have 24 3.2V 304AHr LiFePo cells on board to install in an 8S3P configuration for 25.6v/912AHr. I have attached a circuit diagram of what I was planning and would really like your input given your experience on the topic. I too had planned to fill the battery compartment with an additional 24V AGM backup simply because the space is available. Can I ask you to expand on your install and provide some additional details? Specifically; which BMS did you use (specs), which redundant balancer did you use? How did you split the LiFePo bank into three busses? how did you connect the bank to the main switches etc. Again, beautiful install! Thanks in advance, Tony SM#443 Grand Cru |
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