Topics

Membrane Tube end caps


Arno Luijten
 

Hi Danny,

I fully agree we should not dismiss the choices Amel made too easy. I think the choice Amel made with the Desalator watermaker was excellent. But like with everything in life it was also a compromise between pro's and con's.
Reality is that companies that make watermakers are up to some extent just assembling stuff that is in the market anyway. So the membranes are from DuPont, the HP pump is from Cat, etc, etc.
But fact remains there are some valid points of criticism to be expressed for the Desalator product. That does not imply that Amel is to blame. It just means that Desalator has room for improving the product.
Until now I did not find a cruiser perfectly happy with his or hers watermaker. These things are extremely sensitive to bad treatment and treating them well can be a drag after so much time.
From my point of view there are a few things Desalator could improve with very little cost. I appreciate they don't change the product every two years and forget about spareparts for the installed base, like many companies do, but there are some obvious thing they could improve like many Amel owners already did themselves.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


 

One of the things that have not been mentioned in this Topic is the possible causes of the deterioration of some materials used for endcaps.

There is anecdotal evidence that points to Sodium Metabisulfite, the pickling chemical as being a cause, especially when it is mixed in a solution greater than recommended by Dessalator. IMPORTANTLY, the smaller watermakers (50-60 liter) have less than 1/3rd the internal volume that the larger watermakers (150-250), yet the recommended dosage is the same! This makes no sense to me. Additionally, there are some who believe if a small amount of pickling agent is good, more is better. BeBe (SM 387), with a D160 watermaker, had this "more is better" problem for the first 1.5 years of her life. She was cared for by an "experienced" guy in Tortola. He was one of those who believed, more is better. During his this time,  BeBe's owner only used BeBe 3 or 4 times for 2 weeks or less.  After each use, he had the caretaker pickle the watermaker. Within a few months of our ownership, the membranes needed replacing, and the white endcaps were deteriorated around the interconnect bobbin. When we bought BeBe, the watermaker had 34 hours on the meter, but the endcaps and the membranes needed replacing. I estimate that, except for a few weeks, the system was filled with a very high solution of Sodium Metabisulfite.

I replaced the white end caps with the "new" black end caps and had no issues for almost 11 years of ownership. During that ownership, I never used Sodium Metabisulfite. I replaced the membranes about every 3 years. I replaced them when the TDS neared 300ppm. This was my preference. Interestingly some Spectra watermakers have an auto-rejection system that rejects product water at 750ppm (default). Some watermaker manufacturers have said that any ppm that is under 1000ppm is safe. WHO states that 750ppm is safe, but recommends a daily intake limit at 500ppm. The efficiency of membranes, in terms of ppm changes with age. The slow creep of ppm will not be noticed. You should check ppm continuously.

Lastly, I have found Dessalaltor to be responsive to our needs. And, please remember this: "We encourage postings which will genuinely help Amel owners source needed parts and services. We encourage you to support the Amel brand and be respectful to the brand in your postings. Care should be taken to not post anything that could be considered offensive or derogatory regarding Amel, any Member, or Sponsor. Please refrain from political issues, rude, or inappropriate language. Please refrain from criticism of persons or businesses in which you may have experienced unsatisfactory results, because it would be one-sided, without the ability of the other side to respond."

BTW, Dessalator is the supplier of choice of many Super Yachts.


CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:41 AM Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:
Hi Danny,

I fully agree we should not dismiss the choices Amel made too easy. I think the choice Amel made with the Desalator watermaker was excellent. But like with everything in life it was also a compromise between pro's and con's.
Reality is that companies that make watermakers are up to some extent just assembling stuff that is in the market anyway. So the membranes are from DuPont, the HP pump is from Cat, etc, etc.
But fact remains there are some valid points of criticism to be expressed for the Desalator product. That does not imply that Amel is to blame. It just means that Desalator has room for improving the product.
Until now I did not find a cruiser perfectly happy with his or hers watermaker. These things are extremely sensitive to bad treatment and treating them well can be a drag after so much time.
From my point of view there are a few things Desalator could improve with very little cost. I appreciate they don't change the product every two years and forget about spareparts for the installed base, like many companies do, but there are some obvious thing they could improve like many Amel owners already did themselves.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Matt Salatino
 

So what did you use, if you stored the boat?
I heard that propylene glycol (RV water system antifreeze) is a good substitute?......

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Apr 22, 2020, at 4:10 PM, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:

One of the things that have not been mentioned in this Topic is the possible causes of the deterioration of some materials used for endcaps.

There is anecdotal evidence that points to Sodium Metabisulfite, the pickling chemical as being a cause, especially when it is mixed in a solution greater than recommended by Dessalator. IMPORTANTLY, the smaller watermakers (50-60 liter) have less than 1/3rd the internal volume that the larger watermakers (150-250), yet the recommended dosage is the same! This makes no sense to me. Additionally, there are some who believe if a small amount of pickling agent is good, more is better. BeBe (SM 387), with a D160 watermaker, had this "more is better" problem for the first 1.5 years of her life. She was cared for by an "experienced" guy in Tortola. He was one of those who believed, more is better. During his this time,  BeBe's owner only used BeBe 3 or 4 times for 2 weeks or less.  After each use, he had the caretaker pickle the watermaker. Within a few months of our ownership, the membranes needed replacing, and the white endcaps were deteriorated around the interconnect bobbin. When we bought BeBe, the watermaker had 34 hours on the meter, but the endcaps and the membranes needed replacing. I estimate that, except for a few weeks, the system was filled with a very high solution of Sodium Metabisulfite.

I replaced the white end caps with the "new" black end caps and had no issues for almost 11 years of ownership. During that ownership, I never used Sodium Metabisulfite. I replaced the membranes about every 3 years. I replaced them when the TDS neared 300ppm. This was my preference. Interestingly some Spectra watermakers have an auto-rejection system that rejects product water at 750ppm (default). Some watermaker manufacturers have said that any ppm that is under 1000ppm is safe. WHO states that 750ppm is safe, but recommends a daily intake limit at 500ppm. The efficiency of membranes, in terms of ppm changes with age. The slow creep of ppm will not be noticed. You should check ppm continuously.

Lastly, I have found Dessalaltor to be responsive to our needs. And, please remember this: "We encourage postings which will genuinely help Amel owners source needed parts and services. We encourage you to support the Amel brand and be respectful to the brand in your postings. Care should be taken to not post anything that could be considered offensive or derogatory regarding Amel, any Member, or Sponsor. Please refrain from political issues, rude, or inappropriate language. Please refrain from criticism of persons or businesses in which you may have experienced unsatisfactory results, because it would be one-sided, without the ability of the other side to respond."

BTW, Dessalator is the supplier of choice of many Super Yachts.


CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:41 AM Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:
Hi Danny,

I fully agree we should not dismiss the choices Amel made too easy. I think the choice Amel made with the Desalator watermaker was excellent. But like with everything in life it was also a compromise between pro's and con's.
Reality is that companies that make watermakers are up to some extent just assembling stuff that is in the market anyway. So the membranes are from DuPont, the HP pump is from Cat, etc, etc.
But fact remains there are some valid points of criticism to be expressed for the Desalator product. That does not imply that Amel is to blame. It just means that Desalator has room for improving the product.
Until now I did not find a cruiser perfectly happy with his or hers watermaker. These things are extremely sensitive to bad treatment and treating them well can be a drag after so much time.
From my point of view there are a few things Desalator could improve with very little cost. I appreciate they don't change the product every two years and forget about spareparts for the installed base, like many companies do, but there are some obvious thing they could improve like many Amel owners already did themselves.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


 

Matt,
  1. We were never in cold climates
  2. We were on the boat continuously with very few exceptions
  3. I installed a 24-volt timer and solenoid valve to flush 2x weekly when we were off the boat for a month
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 9:17 AM Matt Salatino via groups.io <helmsmatt=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
So what did you use, if you stored the boat?
I heard that propylene glycol (RV water system antifreeze) is a good substitute?......

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Apr 22, 2020, at 4:10 PM, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:

One of the things that have not been mentioned in this Topic is the possible causes of the deterioration of some materials used for endcaps.

There is anecdotal evidence that points to Sodium Metabisulfite, the pickling chemical as being a cause, especially when it is mixed in a solution greater than recommended by Dessalator. IMPORTANTLY, the smaller watermakers (50-60 liter) have less than 1/3rd the internal volume that the larger watermakers (150-250), yet the recommended dosage is the same! This makes no sense to me. Additionally, there are some who believe if a small amount of pickling agent is good, more is better. BeBe (SM 387), with a D160 watermaker, had this "more is better" problem for the first 1.5 years of her life. She was cared for by an "experienced" guy in Tortola. He was one of those who believed, more is better. During his this time,  BeBe's owner only used BeBe 3 or 4 times for 2 weeks or less.  After each use, he had the caretaker pickle the watermaker. Within a few months of our ownership, the membranes needed replacing, and the white endcaps were deteriorated around the interconnect bobbin. When we bought BeBe, the watermaker had 34 hours on the meter, but the endcaps and the membranes needed replacing. I estimate that, except for a few weeks, the system was filled with a very high solution of Sodium Metabisulfite.

I replaced the white end caps with the "new" black end caps and had no issues for almost 11 years of ownership. During that ownership, I never used Sodium Metabisulfite. I replaced the membranes about every 3 years. I replaced them when the TDS neared 300ppm. This was my preference. Interestingly some Spectra watermakers have an auto-rejection system that rejects product water at 750ppm (default). Some watermaker manufacturers have said that any ppm that is under 1000ppm is safe. WHO states that 750ppm is safe, but recommends a daily intake limit at 500ppm. The efficiency of membranes, in terms of ppm changes with age. The slow creep of ppm will not be noticed. You should check ppm continuously.

Lastly, I have found Dessalaltor to be responsive to our needs. And, please remember this: "We encourage postings which will genuinely help Amel owners source needed parts and services. We encourage you to support the Amel brand and be respectful to the brand in your postings. Care should be taken to not post anything that could be considered offensive or derogatory regarding Amel, any Member, or Sponsor. Please refrain from political issues, rude, or inappropriate language. Please refrain from criticism of persons or businesses in which you may have experienced unsatisfactory results, because it would be one-sided, without the ability of the other side to respond."

BTW, Dessalator is the supplier of choice of many Super Yachts.


CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:41 AM Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:
Hi Danny,

I fully agree we should not dismiss the choices Amel made too easy. I think the choice Amel made with the Desalator watermaker was excellent. But like with everything in life it was also a compromise between pro's and con's.
Reality is that companies that make watermakers are up to some extent just assembling stuff that is in the market anyway. So the membranes are from DuPont, the HP pump is from Cat, etc, etc.
But fact remains there are some valid points of criticism to be expressed for the Desalator product. That does not imply that Amel is to blame. It just means that Desalator has room for improving the product.
Until now I did not find a cruiser perfectly happy with his or hers watermaker. These things are extremely sensitive to bad treatment and treating them well can be a drag after so much time.
From my point of view there are a few things Desalator could improve with very little cost. I appreciate they don't change the product every two years and forget about spareparts for the installed base, like many companies do, but there are some obvious thing they could improve like many Amel owners already did themselves.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown
 

Before leaving the boat for an extended period of time I have always used 30ml Sodium Metabisulphite in 7.2l water (approx. 1 bucket), circulated through for half an hour, then allowing the bucket to drain, leaving the membranes flooded with the solution. Note that the concentration is the same regardless of the capacity of the water maker. I have never had a problem.

 

Cheers,

Paul

S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 - Grenada

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse
Sent: 22 April 2020 15:10
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Membrane Tube end caps

 

One of the things that have not been mentioned in this Topic is the possible causes of the deterioration of some materials used for endcaps.

 

There is anecdotal evidence that points to Sodium Metabisulfite, the pickling chemical as being a cause, especially when it is mixed in a solution greater than recommended by Dessalator. IMPORTANTLY, the smaller watermakers (50-60 liter) have less than 1/3rd the internal volume that the larger watermakers (150-250), yet the recommended dosage is the same! This makes no sense to me. Additionally, there are some who believe if a small amount of pickling agent is good, more is better. BeBe (SM 387), with a D160 watermaker, had this "more is better" problem for the first 1.5 years of her life. She was cared for by an "experienced" guy in Tortola. He was one of those who believed, more is better. During his this time,  BeBe's owner only used BeBe 3 or 4 times for 2 weeks or less.  After each use, he had the caretaker pickle the watermaker. Within a few months of our ownership, the membranes needed replacing, and the white endcaps were deteriorated around the interconnect bobbin. When we bought BeBe, the watermaker had 34 hours on the meter, but the endcaps and the membranes needed replacing. I estimate that, except for a few weeks, the system was filled with a very high solution of Sodium Metabisulfite.

 

I replaced the white end caps with the "new" black end caps and had no issues for almost 11 years of ownership. During that ownership, I never used Sodium Metabisulfite. I replaced the membranes about every 3 years. I replaced them when the TDS neared 300ppm. This was my preference. Interestingly some Spectra watermakers have an auto-rejection system that rejects product water at 750ppm (default). Some watermaker manufacturers have said that any ppm that is under 1000ppm is safe. WHO states that 750ppm is safe, but recommends a daily intake limit at 500ppm. The efficiency of membranes, in terms of ppm changes with age. The slow creep of ppm will not be noticed. You should check ppm continuously.

 

Lastly, I have found Dessalaltor to be responsive to our needs. And, please remember this: "We encourage postings which will genuinely help Amel owners source needed parts and services. We encourage you to support the Amel brand and be respectful to the brand in your postings. Care should be taken to not post anything that could be considered offensive or derogatory regarding Amel, any Member, or Sponsor. Please refrain from political issues, rude, or inappropriate language. Please refrain from criticism of persons or businesses in which you may have experienced unsatisfactory results, because it would be one-sided, without the ability of the other side to respond."

 

BTW, Dessalator is the supplier of choice of many Super Yachts.

 

 

Image removed by sender.

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

Image removed by sender.Image removed by sender.Image removed by sender.

 

View My Training Calendar

Image removed by sender.

 

 

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:41 AM Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:

Hi Danny,

I fully agree we should not dismiss the choices Amel made too easy. I think the choice Amel made with the Desalator watermaker was excellent. But like with everything in life it was also a compromise between pro's and con's.
Reality is that companies that make watermakers are up to some extent just assembling stuff that is in the market anyway. So the membranes are from DuPont, the HP pump is from Cat, etc, etc.
But fact remains there are some valid points of criticism to be expressed for the Desalator product. That does not imply that Amel is to blame. It just means that Desalator has room for improving the product.
Until now I did not find a cruiser perfectly happy with his or hers watermaker. These things are extremely sensitive to bad treatment and treating them well can be a drag after so much time.
From my point of view there are a few things Desalator could improve with very little cost. I appreciate they don't change the product every two years and forget about spareparts for the installed base, like many companies do, but there are some obvious thing they could improve like many Amel owners already did themselves.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98


 

Paul,

I was referring to the fact that Dessalator recommends using the ST2 sterilizing cartridge and 1 packet of their "sterilizing" powder." This is regardless of the size.
image.png
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 9:24 AM Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown <paul.dowd@...> wrote:

Before leaving the boat for an extended period of time I have always used 30ml Sodium Metabisulphite in 7.2l water (approx. 1 bucket), circulated through for half an hour, then allowing the bucket to drain, leaving the membranes flooded with the solution. Note that the concentration is the same regardless of the capacity of the water maker. I have never had a problem.

 

Cheers,

Paul

S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 - Grenada

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse
Sent: 22 April 2020 15:10
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Membrane Tube end caps

 

One of the things that have not been mentioned in this Topic is the possible causes of the deterioration of some materials used for endcaps.

 

There is anecdotal evidence that points to Sodium Metabisulfite, the pickling chemical as being a cause, especially when it is mixed in a solution greater than recommended by Dessalator. IMPORTANTLY, the smaller watermakers (50-60 liter) have less than 1/3rd the internal volume that the larger watermakers (150-250), yet the recommended dosage is the same! This makes no sense to me. Additionally, there are some who believe if a small amount of pickling agent is good, more is better. BeBe (SM 387), with a D160 watermaker, had this "more is better" problem for the first 1.5 years of her life. She was cared for by an "experienced" guy in Tortola. He was one of those who believed, more is better. During his this time,  BeBe's owner only used BeBe 3 or 4 times for 2 weeks or less.  After each use, he had the caretaker pickle the watermaker. Within a few months of our ownership, the membranes needed replacing, and the white endcaps were deteriorated around the interconnect bobbin. When we bought BeBe, the watermaker had 34 hours on the meter, but the endcaps and the membranes needed replacing. I estimate that, except for a few weeks, the system was filled with a very high solution of Sodium Metabisulfite.

 

I replaced the white end caps with the "new" black end caps and had no issues for almost 11 years of ownership. During that ownership, I never used Sodium Metabisulfite. I replaced the membranes about every 3 years. I replaced them when the TDS neared 300ppm. This was my preference. Interestingly some Spectra watermakers have an auto-rejection system that rejects product water at 750ppm (default). Some watermaker manufacturers have said that any ppm that is under 1000ppm is safe. WHO states that 750ppm is safe, but recommends a daily intake limit at 500ppm. The efficiency of membranes, in terms of ppm changes with age. The slow creep of ppm will not be noticed. You should check ppm continuously.

 

Lastly, I have found Dessalaltor to be responsive to our needs. And, please remember this: "We encourage postings which will genuinely help Amel owners source needed parts and services. We encourage you to support the Amel brand and be respectful to the brand in your postings. Care should be taken to not post anything that could be considered offensive or derogatory regarding Amel, any Member, or Sponsor. Please refrain from political issues, rude, or inappropriate language. Please refrain from criticism of persons or businesses in which you may have experienced unsatisfactory results, because it would be one-sided, without the ability of the other side to respond."

 

BTW, Dessalator is the supplier of choice of many Super Yachts.

 

 

Image removed by sender.

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

Image removed by sender.Image removed by sender.Image removed by sender.

 

View My Training Calendar

Image removed by sender.

 

 

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:41 AM Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:

Hi Danny,

I fully agree we should not dismiss the choices Amel made too easy. I think the choice Amel made with the Desalator watermaker was excellent. But like with everything in life it was also a compromise between pro's and con's.
Reality is that companies that make watermakers are up to some extent just assembling stuff that is in the market anyway. So the membranes are from DuPont, the HP pump is from Cat, etc, etc.
But fact remains there are some valid points of criticism to be expressed for the Desalator product. That does not imply that Amel is to blame. It just means that Desalator has room for improving the product.
Until now I did not find a cruiser perfectly happy with his or hers watermaker. These things are extremely sensitive to bad treatment and treating them well can be a drag after so much time.
From my point of view there are a few things Desalator could improve with very little cost. I appreciate they don't change the product every two years and forget about spareparts for the installed base, like many companies do, but there are some obvious thing they could improve like many Amel owners already did themselves.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98


Mohammad Shirloo
 

We have followed Dessalator instructions for storage during the off season. We have used the reusable cartridge and powder provided by Dessalator. (5 Euros per use). We have not had any issues.

 

Happy Sailing;

 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

AMEL 54 #099

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:36 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Membrane Tube end caps

 

Paul,

 

I was referring to the fact that Dessalator recommends using the ST2 sterilizing cartridge and 1 packet of their "sterilizing" powder." This is regardless of the size.

image.png

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

 

View My Training Calendar

 

 

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 9:24 AM Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown <paul.dowd@...> wrote:

Before leaving the boat for an extended period of time I have always used 30ml Sodium Metabisulphite in 7.2l water (approx. 1 bucket), circulated through for half an hour, then allowing the bucket to drain, leaving the membranes flooded with the solution. Note that the concentration is the same regardless of the capacity of the water maker. I have never had a problem.

 

Cheers,

Paul

S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 - Grenada

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse
Sent: 22 April 2020 15:10
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Membrane Tube end caps

 

One of the things that have not been mentioned in this Topic is the possible causes of the deterioration of some materials used for endcaps.

 

There is anecdotal evidence that points to Sodium Metabisulfite, the pickling chemical as being a cause, especially when it is mixed in a solution greater than recommended by Dessalator. IMPORTANTLY, the smaller watermakers (50-60 liter) have less than 1/3rd the internal volume that the larger watermakers (150-250), yet the recommended dosage is the same! This makes no sense to me. Additionally, there are some who believe if a small amount of pickling agent is good, more is better. BeBe (SM 387), with a D160 watermaker, had this "more is better" problem for the first 1.5 years of her life. She was cared for by an "experienced" guy in Tortola. He was one of those who believed, more is better. During his this time,  BeBe's owner only used BeBe 3 or 4 times for 2 weeks or less.  After each use, he had the caretaker pickle the watermaker. Within a few months of our ownership, the membranes needed replacing, and the white endcaps were deteriorated around the interconnect bobbin. When we bought BeBe, the watermaker had 34 hours on the meter, but the endcaps and the membranes needed replacing. I estimate that, except for a few weeks, the system was filled with a very high solution of Sodium Metabisulfite.

 

I replaced the white end caps with the "new" black end caps and had no issues for almost 11 years of ownership. During that ownership, I never used Sodium Metabisulfite. I replaced the membranes about every 3 years. I replaced them when the TDS neared 300ppm. This was my preference. Interestingly some Spectra watermakers have an auto-rejection system that rejects product water at 750ppm (default). Some watermaker manufacturers have said that any ppm that is under 1000ppm is safe. WHO states that 750ppm is safe, but recommends a daily intake limit at 500ppm. The efficiency of membranes, in terms of ppm changes with age. The slow creep of ppm will not be noticed. You should check ppm continuously.

 

Lastly, I have found Dessalaltor to be responsive to our needs. And, please remember this: "We encourage postings which will genuinely help Amel owners source needed parts and services. We encourage you to support the Amel brand and be respectful to the brand in your postings. Care should be taken to not post anything that could be considered offensive or derogatory regarding Amel, any Member, or Sponsor. Please refrain from political issues, rude, or inappropriate language. Please refrain from criticism of persons or businesses in which you may have experienced unsatisfactory results, because it would be one-sided, without the ability of the other side to respond."

 

BTW, Dessalator is the supplier of choice of many Super Yachts.

 

 

Image removed by sender.

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

Image removed by sender.Image removed by sender.Image removed by sender.

 

View My Training Calendar

Image removed by sender.

 

 

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:41 AM Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:

Hi Danny,

I fully agree we should not dismiss the choices Amel made too easy. I think the choice Amel made with the Desalator watermaker was excellent. But like with everything in life it was also a compromise between pro's and con's.
Reality is that companies that make watermakers are up to some extent just assembling stuff that is in the market anyway. So the membranes are from DuPont, the HP pump is from Cat, etc, etc.
But fact remains there are some valid points of criticism to be expressed for the Desalator product. That does not imply that Amel is to blame. It just means that Desalator has room for improving the product.
Until now I did not find a cruiser perfectly happy with his or hers watermaker. These things are extremely sensitive to bad treatment and treating them well can be a drag after so much time.
From my point of view there are a few things Desalator could improve with very little cost. I appreciate they don't change the product every two years and forget about spareparts for the installed base, like many companies do, but there are some obvious thing they could improve like many Amel owners already did themselves.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98


Arnold Mente
 

Hi Mohammad and Atypisch,

wehre did you buy the sterilizing powder? My last bill from Desallator was € 22,95 +20% VAT for the powder!

Best and be save

Arnold
SY Zephyr
SM203

Am 22.04.2020 um 18:05 schrieb Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...>:

We have followed Dessalator instructions for storage during the off season. We have used the reusable cartridge and powder provided by Dessalator. (5 Euros per use). We have not had any issues.
 
Happy Sailing;
 
 
Mohammad and Aty
B&B Kokomo
AMEL 54 #099
 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:36 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Membrane Tube end caps
 
Paul,
 
I was referring to the fact that Dessalator recommends using the ST2 sterilizing cartridge and 1 packet of their "sterilizing" powder." This is regardless of the size.
<image001.png>
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
 
 
On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 9:24 AM Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown <paul.dowd@...> wrote:
Before leaving the boat for an extended period of time I have always used 30ml Sodium Metabisulphite in 7.2l water (approx. 1 bucket), circulated through for half an hour, then allowing the bucket to drain, leaving the membranes flooded with the solution. Note that the concentration is the same regardless of the capacity of the water maker. I have never had a problem.
 
Cheers,
Paul
S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 - Grenada
 
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse
Sent: 22 April 2020 15:10
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Membrane Tube end caps
 
One of the things that have not been mentioned in this Topic is the possible causes of the deterioration of some materials used for endcaps.
 
There is anecdotal evidence that points to Sodium Metabisulfite, the pickling chemical as being a cause, especially when it is mixed in a solution greater than recommended by Dessalator. IMPORTANTLY, the smaller watermakers (50-60 liter) have less than 1/3rd the internal volume that the larger watermakers (150-250), yet the recommended dosage is the same! This makes no sense to me. Additionally, there are some who believe if a small amount of pickling agent is good, more is better. BeBe (SM 387), with a D160 watermaker, had this "more is better" problem for the first 1.5 years of her life. She was cared for by an "experienced" guy in Tortola. He was one of those who believed, more is better. During his this time,  BeBe's owner only used BeBe 3 or 4 times for 2 weeks or less.  After each use, he had the caretaker pickle the watermaker. Within a few months of our ownership, the membranes needed replacing, and the white endcaps were deteriorated around the interconnect bobbin. When we bought BeBe, the watermaker had 34 hours on the meter, but the endcaps and the membranes needed replacing. I estimate that, except for a few weeks, the system was filled with a very high solution of Sodium Metabisulfite.
 
I replaced the white end caps with the "new" black end caps and had no issues for almost 11 years of ownership. During that ownership, I never used Sodium Metabisulfite. I replaced the membranes about every 3 years. I replaced them when the TDS neared 300ppm. This was my preference. Interestingly some Spectra watermakers have an auto-rejection system that rejects product water at 750ppm (default). Some watermaker manufacturers have said that any ppm that is under 1000ppm is safe. WHO states that 750ppm is safe, but recommends a daily intake limit at 500ppm. The efficiency of membranes, in terms of ppm changes with age. The slow creep of ppm will not be noticed. You should check ppm continuously.
 
Lastly, I have found Dessalaltor to be responsive to our needs. And, please remember this: "We encourage postings which will genuinely help Amel owners source needed parts and services. We encourage you to support the Amel brand and be respectful to the brand in your postings. Care should be taken to not post anything that could be considered offensive or derogatory regarding Amel, any Member, or Sponsor. Please refrain from political issues, rude, or inappropriate language. Please refrain from criticism of persons or businesses in which you may have experienced unsatisfactory results, because it would be one-sided, without the ability of the other side to respond."
 
BTW, Dessalator is the supplier of choice of many Super Yachts.
 
 
<image002.jpg>
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School 
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550  
 
 
 
On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:41 AM Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:
Hi Danny,

I fully agree we should not dismiss the choices Amel made too easy. I think the choice Amel made with the Desalator watermaker was excellent. But like with everything in life it was also a compromise between pro's and con's.
Reality is that companies that make watermakers are up to some extent just assembling stuff that is in the market anyway. So the membranes are from DuPont, the HP pump is from Cat, etc, etc.
But fact remains there are some valid points of criticism to be expressed for the Desalator product. That does not imply that Amel is to blame. It just means that Desalator has room for improving the product.
Until now I did not find a cruiser perfectly happy with his or hers watermaker. These things are extremely sensitive to bad treatment and treating them well can be a drag after so much time.
From my point of view there are a few things Desalator could improve with very little cost. I appreciate they don't change the product every two years and forget about spareparts for the installed base, like many companies do, but there are some obvious thing they could improve like many Amel owners already did themselves.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121 

-- 
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 




--
Arnold
SY Zephyr SM203


Mohammad Shirloo
 

Hi Arnold;

 

I had placed an order for about 10 packs a few years ago. At the time they were 5 Euros per pack. I do see now that they have increased their price to 27.53 Euros on their website. That is an unexpected increase.

 

Happy Sailing;

 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

AMEL 54 #099

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Arnold Mente via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 9:13 AM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Membrane Tube end caps

 

Hi Mohammad and Atypisch,

 

wehre did you buy the sterilizing powder? My last bill from Desallator was € 22,95 +20% VAT for the powder!

 

Best and be save

 

Arnold

SY Zephyr

SM203

 

Am 22.04.2020 um 18:05 schrieb Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...>:

 

We have followed Dessalator instructions for storage during the off season. We have used the reusable cartridge and powder provided by Dessalator. (5 Euros per use). We have not had any issues.

 

Happy Sailing;

 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

AMEL 54 #099

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:36 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Membrane Tube end caps

 

Paul,

 

I was referring to the fact that Dessalator recommends using the ST2 sterilizing cartridge and 1 packet of their "sterilizing" powder." This is regardless of the size.

<image001.png>

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

 

 

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 9:24 AM Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown <paul.dowd@...> wrote:

Before leaving the boat for an extended period of time I have always used 30ml Sodium Metabisulphite in 7.2l water (approx. 1 bucket), circulated through for half an hour, then allowing the bucket to drain, leaving the membranes flooded with the solution. Note that the concentration is the same regardless of the capacity of the water maker. I have never had a problem.

 

Cheers,

Paul

S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 - Grenada

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse
Sent: 22 April 2020 15:10
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Membrane Tube end caps

 

One of the things that have not been mentioned in this Topic is the possible causes of the deterioration of some materials used for endcaps.

 

There is anecdotal evidence that points to Sodium Metabisulfite, the pickling chemical as being a cause, especially when it is mixed in a solution greater than recommended by Dessalator. IMPORTANTLY, the smaller watermakers (50-60 liter) have less than 1/3rd the internal volume that the larger watermakers (150-250), yet the recommended dosage is the same! This makes no sense to me. Additionally, there are some who believe if a small amount of pickling agent is good, more is better. BeBe (SM 387), with a D160 watermaker, had this "more is better" problem for the first 1.5 years of her life. She was cared for by an "experienced" guy in Tortola. He was one of those who believed, more is better. During his this time,  BeBe's owner only used BeBe 3 or 4 times for 2 weeks or less.  After each use, he had the caretaker pickle the watermaker. Within a few months of our ownership, the membranes needed replacing, and the white endcaps were deteriorated around the interconnect bobbin. When we bought BeBe, the watermaker had 34 hours on the meter, but the endcaps and the membranes needed replacing. I estimate that, except for a few weeks, the system was filled with a very high solution of Sodium Metabisulfite.

 

I replaced the white end caps with the "new" black end caps and had no issues for almost 11 years of ownership. During that ownership, I never used Sodium Metabisulfite. I replaced the membranes about every 3 years. I replaced them when the TDS neared 300ppm. This was my preference. Interestingly some Spectra watermakers have an auto-rejection system that rejects product water at 750ppm (default). Some watermaker manufacturers have said that any ppm that is under 1000ppm is safe. WHO states that 750ppm is safe, but recommends a daily intake limit at 500ppm. The efficiency of membranes, in terms of ppm changes with age. The slow creep of ppm will not be noticed. You should check ppm continuously.

 

Lastly, I have found Dessalaltor to be responsive to our needs. And, please remember this: "We encourage postings which will genuinely help Amel owners source needed parts and services. We encourage you to support the Amel brand and be respectful to the brand in your postings. Care should be taken to not post anything that could be considered offensive or derogatory regarding Amel, any Member, or Sponsor. Please refrain from political issues, rude, or inappropriate language. Please refrain from criticism of persons or businesses in which you may have experienced unsatisfactory results, because it would be one-sided, without the ability of the other side to respond."

 

BTW, Dessalator is the supplier of choice of many Super Yachts.

 

 

<image002.jpg>

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School 

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550  

 

 

 

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:41 AM Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:

Hi Danny,

I fully agree we should not dismiss the choices Amel made too easy. I think the choice Amel made with the Desalator watermaker was excellent. But like with everything in life it was also a compromise between pro's and con's.
Reality is that companies that make watermakers are up to some extent just assembling stuff that is in the market anyway. So the membranes are from DuPont, the HP pump is from Cat, etc, etc.
But fact remains there are some valid points of criticism to be expressed for the Desalator product. That does not imply that Amel is to blame. It just means that Desalator has room for improving the product.
Until now I did not find a cruiser perfectly happy with his or hers watermaker. These things are extremely sensitive to bad treatment and treating them well can be a drag after so much time.
From my point of view there are a few things Desalator could improve with very little cost. I appreciate they don't change the product every two years and forget about spareparts for the installed base, like many companies do, but there are some obvious thing they could improve like many Amel owners already did themselves.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121 


-- 
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 

 


--
Arnold
SY Zephyr SM203


Matt Salatino
 

You can buy Sodium Metabisulfite on Amazon or eBay. It’s used in beer brewing. Very inexpensive.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Apr 22, 2020, at 6:28 PM, Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...> wrote:

Hi Arnold;

 

I had placed an order for about 10 packs a few years ago. At the time they were 5 Euros per pack. I do see now that they have increased their price to 27.53 Euros on their website. That is an unexpected increase.

 

Happy Sailing;

 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

AMEL 54 #099

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Arnold Mente via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 9:13 AM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Membrane Tube end caps

 

Hi Mohammad and Atypisch,

 

wehre did you buy the sterilizing powder? My last bill from Desallator was € 22,95 +20% VAT for the powder!

 

Best and be save

 

Arnold

SY Zephyr

SM203

 

Am 22.04.2020 um 18:05 schrieb Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...>:

 

We have followed Dessalator instructions for storage during the off season. We have used the reusable cartridge and powder provided by Dessalator. (5 Euros per use). We have not had any issues.

 

Happy Sailing;

 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

AMEL 54 #099

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:36 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Membrane Tube end caps

 

Paul,

 

I was referring to the fact that Dessalator recommends using the ST2 sterilizing cartridge and 1 packet of their "sterilizing" powder." This is regardless of the size.

<image001.png>

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

 

 

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 9:24 AM Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown <paul.dowd@...> wrote:

Before leaving the boat for an extended period of time I have always used 30ml Sodium Metabisulphite in 7.2l water (approx. 1 bucket), circulated through for half an hour, then allowing the bucket to drain, leaving the membranes flooded with the solution. Note that the concentration is the same regardless of the capacity of the water maker. I have never had a problem.

 

Cheers,

Paul

S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 - Grenada

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse
Sent: 22 April 2020 15:10
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Membrane Tube end caps

 

One of the things that have not been mentioned in this Topic is the possible causes of the deterioration of some materials used for endcaps.

 

There is anecdotal evidence that points to Sodium Metabisulfite, the pickling chemical as being a cause, especially when it is mixed in a solution greater than recommended by Dessalator. IMPORTANTLY, the smaller watermakers (50-60 liter) have less than 1/3rd the internal volume that the larger watermakers (150-250), yet the recommended dosage is the same! This makes no sense to me. Additionally, there are some who believe if a small amount of pickling agent is good, more is better. BeBe (SM 387), with a D160 watermaker, had this "more is better" problem for the first 1.5 years of her life. She was cared for by an "experienced" guy in Tortola. He was one of those who believed, more is better. During his this time,  BeBe's owner only used BeBe 3 or 4 times for 2 weeks or less.  After each use, he had the caretaker pickle the watermaker. Within a few months of our ownership, the membranes needed replacing, and the white endcaps were deteriorated around the interconnect bobbin. When we bought BeBe, the watermaker had 34 hours on the meter, but the endcaps and the membranes needed replacing. I estimate that, except for a few weeks, the system was filled with a very high solution of Sodium Metabisulfite.

 

I replaced the white end caps with the "new" black end caps and had no issues for almost 11 years of ownership. During that ownership, I never used Sodium Metabisulfite. I replaced the membranes about every 3 years. I replaced them when the TDS neared 300ppm. This was my preference. Interestingly some Spectra watermakers have an auto-rejection system that rejects product water at 750ppm (default). Some watermaker manufacturers have said that any ppm that is under 1000ppm is safe. WHO states that 750ppm is safe, but recommends a daily intake limit at 500ppm. The efficiency of membranes, in terms of ppm changes with age. The slow creep of ppm will not be noticed. You should check ppm continuously.

 

Lastly, I have found Dessalaltor to be responsive to our needs. And, please remember this: "We encourage postings which will genuinely help Amel owners source needed parts and services. We encourage you to support the Amel brand and be respectful to the brand in your postings. Care should be taken to not post anything that could be considered offensive or derogatory regarding Amel, any Member, or Sponsor. Please refrain from political issues, rude, or inappropriate language. Please refrain from criticism of persons or businesses in which you may have experienced unsatisfactory results, because it would be one-sided, without the ability of the other side to respond."

 

BTW, Dessalator is the supplier of choice of many Super Yachts.

 

 

<image002.jpg>

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School 

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550  

 

 

 

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:41 AM Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:

Hi Danny,

I fully agree we should not dismiss the choices Amel made too easy. I think the choice Amel made with the Desalator watermaker was excellent. But like with everything in life it was also a compromise between pro's and con's.
Reality is that companies that make watermakers are up to some extent just assembling stuff that is in the market anyway. So the membranes are from DuPont, the HP pump is from Cat, etc, etc.
But fact remains there are some valid points of criticism to be expressed for the Desalator product. That does not imply that Amel is to blame. It just means that Desalator has room for improving the product.
Until now I did not find a cruiser perfectly happy with his or hers watermaker. These things are extremely sensitive to bad treatment and treating them well can be a drag after so much time.
From my point of view there are a few things Desalator could improve with very little cost. I appreciate they don't change the product every two years and forget about spareparts for the installed base, like many companies do, but there are some obvious thing they could improve like many Amel owners already did themselves.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121 


-- 
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 

 


--
Arnold
SY Zephyr SM203


David Wallace
 

Some years ago there was a post on this forum saying that Dessalator recommended flushing the membranes for storage just with product water, no chemicals. So I started doing that. I just replaced the membranes after 10 years of service, during which we did that. The membranes were replaced because of reduced product although the quality was still very good. We make water every 2-4 days when aboard, then flush with about 12 liters. When we leave the boat in the Sea of Cortez for the summer months, typically late May to early October, I flush with 200 liters. It’s worked well for us but just a personal anecdote.

Dave Wallace
sv Air Ops
Maramu #104


On Apr 22, 2020, at 7:22 AM, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:


Matt,
  1. We were never in cold climates
  2. We were on the boat continuously with very few exceptions
  3. I installed a 24-volt timer and solenoid valve to flush 2x weekly when we were off the boat for a month
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 9:17 AM Matt Salatino via groups.io <helmsmatt=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
So what did you use, if you stored the boat?
I heard that propylene glycol (RV water system antifreeze) is a good substitute?......

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Apr 22, 2020, at 4:10 PM, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:

One of the things that have not been mentioned in this Topic is the possible causes of the deterioration of some materials used for endcaps.

There is anecdotal evidence that points to Sodium Metabisulfite, the pickling chemical as being a cause, especially when it is mixed in a solution greater than recommended by Dessalator. IMPORTANTLY, the smaller watermakers (50-60 liter) have less than 1/3rd the internal volume that the larger watermakers (150-250), yet the recommended dosage is the same! This makes no sense to me. Additionally, there are some who believe if a small amount of pickling agent is good, more is better. BeBe (SM 387), with a D160 watermaker, had this "more is better" problem for the first 1.5 years of her life. She was cared for by an "experienced" guy in Tortola. He was one of those who believed, more is better. During his this time,  BeBe's owner only used BeBe 3 or 4 times for 2 weeks or less.  After each use, he had the caretaker pickle the watermaker. Within a few months of our ownership, the membranes needed replacing, and the white endcaps were deteriorated around the interconnect bobbin. When we bought BeBe, the watermaker had 34 hours on the meter, but the endcaps and the membranes needed replacing. I estimate that, except for a few weeks, the system was filled with a very high solution of Sodium Metabisulfite.

I replaced the white end caps with the "new" black end caps and had no issues for almost 11 years of ownership. During that ownership, I never used Sodium Metabisulfite. I replaced the membranes about every 3 years. I replaced them when the TDS neared 300ppm. This was my preference. Interestingly some Spectra watermakers have an auto-rejection system that rejects product water at 750ppm (default). Some watermaker manufacturers have said that any ppm that is under 1000ppm is safe. WHO states that 750ppm is safe, but recommends a daily intake limit at 500ppm. The efficiency of membranes, in terms of ppm changes with age. The slow creep of ppm will not be noticed. You should check ppm continuously.

Lastly, I have found Dessalaltor to be responsive to our needs. And, please remember this: "We encourage postings which will genuinely help Amel owners source needed parts and services. We encourage you to support the Amel brand and be respectful to the brand in your postings. Care should be taken to not post anything that could be considered offensive or derogatory regarding Amel, any Member, or Sponsor. Please refrain from political issues, rude, or inappropriate language. Please refrain from criticism of persons or businesses in which you may have experienced unsatisfactory results, because it would be one-sided, without the ability of the other side to respond."

BTW, Dessalator is the supplier of choice of many Super Yachts.


CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:41 AM Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:
Hi Danny,

I fully agree we should not dismiss the choices Amel made too easy. I think the choice Amel made with the Desalator watermaker was excellent. But like with everything in life it was also a compromise between pro's and con's.
Reality is that companies that make watermakers are up to some extent just assembling stuff that is in the market anyway. So the membranes are from DuPont, the HP pump is from Cat, etc, etc.
But fact remains there are some valid points of criticism to be expressed for the Desalator product. That does not imply that Amel is to blame. It just means that Desalator has room for improving the product.
Until now I did not find a cruiser perfectly happy with his or hers watermaker. These things are extremely sensitive to bad treatment and treating them well can be a drag after so much time.
From my point of view there are a few things Desalator could improve with very little cost. I appreciate they don't change the product every two years and forget about spareparts for the installed base, like many companies do, but there are some obvious thing they could improve like many Amel owners already did themselves.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi,

We have never put any chemical in even when leaving the boat even for up to two months. I think the fact that I am very careful to avoid using the water maker in dirty of contaminated water helps. I am very careful in harbour and will not use it if I ever have any doubts. I guess  if the water you use has greebies in it your situation would be different. When I start up after a period of time I run the water to waste and it has the classic rotten egg smell common to salt water. That passes and the product water is fine. I don't have an automatic flushing system.

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 23 April 2020 at 02:25 Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown <paul.dowd@...> wrote:

Before leaving the boat for an extended period of time I have always used 30ml Sodium Metabisulphite in 7.2l water (approx. 1 bucket), circulated through for half an hour, then allowing the bucket to drain, leaving the membranes flooded with the solution. Note that the concentration is the same regardless of the capacity of the water maker. I have never had a problem.

 

Cheers,

Paul

S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 - Grenada

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse
Sent: 22 April 2020 15:10
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Membrane Tube end caps

 

One of the things that have not been mentioned in this Topic is the possible causes of the deterioration of some materials used for endcaps.

 

There is anecdotal evidence that points to Sodium Metabisulfite, the pickling chemical as being a cause, especially when it is mixed in a solution greater than recommended by Dessalator. IMPORTANTLY, the smaller watermakers (50-60 liter) have less than 1/3rd the internal volume that the larger watermakers (150-250), yet the recommended dosage is the same! This makes no sense to me. Additionally, there are some who believe if a small amount of pickling agent is good, more is better. BeBe (SM 387), with a D160 watermaker, had this "more is better" problem for the first 1.5 years of her life. She was cared for by an "experienced" guy in Tortola. He was one of those who believed, more is better. During his this time,  BeBe's owner only used BeBe 3 or 4 times for 2 weeks or less.  After each use, he had the caretaker pickle the watermaker. Within a few months of our ownership, the membranes needed replacing, and the white endcaps were deteriorated around the interconnect bobbin. When we bought BeBe, the watermaker had 34 hours on the meter, but the endcaps and the membranes needed replacing. I estimate that, except for a few weeks, the system was filled with a very high solution of Sodium Metabisulfite.

 

I replaced the white end caps with the "new" black end caps and had no issues for almost 11 years of ownership. During that ownership, I never used Sodium Metabisulfite. I replaced the membranes about every 3 years. I replaced them when the TDS neared 300ppm. This was my preference. Interestingly some Spectra watermakers have an auto-rejection system that rejects product water at 750ppm (default). Some watermaker manufacturers have said that any ppm that is under 1000ppm is safe. WHO states that 750ppm is safe, but recommends a daily intake limit at 500ppm. The efficiency of membranes, in terms of ppm changes with age. The slow creep of ppm will not be noticed. You should check ppm continuously.

 

Lastly, I have found Dessalaltor to be responsive to our needs. And, please remember this: "We encourage postings which will genuinely help Amel owners source needed parts and services. We encourage you to support the Amel brand and be respectful to the brand in your postings. Care should be taken to not post anything that could be considered offensive or derogatory regarding Amel, any Member, or Sponsor. Please refrain from political issues, rude, or inappropriate language. Please refrain from criticism of persons or businesses in which you may have experienced unsatisfactory results, because it would be one-sided, without the ability of the other side to respond."

 

BTW, Dessalator is the supplier of choice of many Super Yachts.

 

 

Image removed by sender.

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

 

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

Image removed by sender.Image removed by sender.Image removed by sender.

  

 

 

View My Training Calendar

Image removed by sender.

 

 

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:41 AM Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:

Hi Danny,

I fully agree we should not dismiss the choices Amel made too easy. I think the choice Amel made with the Desalator watermaker was excellent. But like with everything in life it was also a compromise between pro's and con's.
Reality is that companies that make watermakers are up to some extent just assembling stuff that is in the market anyway. So the membranes are from DuPont, the HP pump is from Cat, etc, etc.
But fact remains there are some valid points of criticism to be expressed for the Desalator product. That does not imply that Amel is to blame. It just means that Desalator has room for improving the product.
Until now I did not find a cruiser perfectly happy with his or hers watermaker. These things are extremely sensitive to bad treatment and treating them well can be a drag after so much time.
From my point of view there are a few things Desalator could improve with very little cost. I appreciate they don't change the product every two years and forget about spareparts for the installed base, like many companies do, but there are some obvious thing they could improve like many Amel owners already did themselves.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121

 



 


--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98


 


Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown
 

I bought 1kg of Sodium Metabisulphite from www.westwatermakers.com (UK) for £23.

 

Cheers,

Paul

S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 - Grenada

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Arnold Mente via groups.io
Sent: 22 April 2020 17:13
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Membrane Tube end caps

 

Hi Mohammad and Atypisch,

 

wehre did you buy the sterilizing powder? My last bill from Desallator was € 22,95 +20% VAT for the powder!

 

Best and be save

 

Arnold

SY Zephyr

SM203

 

Am 22.04.2020 um 18:05 schrieb Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...>:

 

We have followed Dessalator instructions for storage during the off season. We have used the reusable cartridge and powder provided by Dessalator. (5 Euros per use). We have not had any issues.

 

Happy Sailing;

 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

AMEL 54 #099

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:36 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Membrane Tube end caps

 

Paul,

 

I was referring to the fact that Dessalator recommends using the ST2 sterilizing cartridge and 1 packet of their "sterilizing" powder." This is regardless of the size.

<image001.png>

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

 

 

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 9:24 AM Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown <paul.dowd@...> wrote:

Before leaving the boat for an extended period of time I have always used 30ml Sodium Metabisulphite in 7.2l water (approx. 1 bucket), circulated through for half an hour, then allowing the bucket to drain, leaving the membranes flooded with the solution. Note that the concentration is the same regardless of the capacity of the water maker. I have never had a problem.

 

Cheers,

Paul

S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 - Grenada

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse
Sent: 22 April 2020 15:10
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Membrane Tube end caps

 

One of the things that have not been mentioned in this Topic is the possible causes of the deterioration of some materials used for endcaps.

 

There is anecdotal evidence that points to Sodium Metabisulfite, the pickling chemical as being a cause, especially when it is mixed in a solution greater than recommended by Dessalator. IMPORTANTLY, the smaller watermakers (50-60 liter) have less than 1/3rd the internal volume that the larger watermakers (150-250), yet the recommended dosage is the same! This makes no sense to me. Additionally, there are some who believe if a small amount of pickling agent is good, more is better. BeBe (SM 387), with a D160 watermaker, had this "more is better" problem for the first 1.5 years of her life. She was cared for by an "experienced" guy in Tortola. He was one of those who believed, more is better. During his this time,  BeBe's owner only used BeBe 3 or 4 times for 2 weeks or less.  After each use, he had the caretaker pickle the watermaker. Within a few months of our ownership, the membranes needed replacing, and the white endcaps were deteriorated around the interconnect bobbin. When we bought BeBe, the watermaker had 34 hours on the meter, but the endcaps and the membranes needed replacing. I estimate that, except for a few weeks, the system was filled with a very high solution of Sodium Metabisulfite.

 

I replaced the white end caps with the "new" black end caps and had no issues for almost 11 years of ownership. During that ownership, I never used Sodium Metabisulfite. I replaced the membranes about every 3 years. I replaced them when the TDS neared 300ppm. This was my preference. Interestingly some Spectra watermakers have an auto-rejection system that rejects product water at 750ppm (default). Some watermaker manufacturers have said that any ppm that is under 1000ppm is safe. WHO states that 750ppm is safe, but recommends a daily intake limit at 500ppm. The efficiency of membranes, in terms of ppm changes with age. The slow creep of ppm will not be noticed. You should check ppm continuously.

 

Lastly, I have found Dessalaltor to be responsive to our needs. And, please remember this: "We encourage postings which will genuinely help Amel owners source needed parts and services. We encourage you to support the Amel brand and be respectful to the brand in your postings. Care should be taken to not post anything that could be considered offensive or derogatory regarding Amel, any Member, or Sponsor. Please refrain from political issues, rude, or inappropriate language. Please refrain from criticism of persons or businesses in which you may have experienced unsatisfactory results, because it would be one-sided, without the ability of the other side to respond."

 

BTW, Dessalator is the supplier of choice of many Super Yachts.

 

 

<image002.jpg>

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School 

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550  

 

 

 

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:41 AM Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:

Hi Danny,

I fully agree we should not dismiss the choices Amel made too easy. I think the choice Amel made with the Desalator watermaker was excellent. But like with everything in life it was also a compromise between pro's and con's.
Reality is that companies that make watermakers are up to some extent just assembling stuff that is in the market anyway. So the membranes are from DuPont, the HP pump is from Cat, etc, etc.
But fact remains there are some valid points of criticism to be expressed for the Desalator product. That does not imply that Amel is to blame. It just means that Desalator has room for improving the product.
Until now I did not find a cruiser perfectly happy with his or hers watermaker. These things are extremely sensitive to bad treatment and treating them well can be a drag after so much time.
From my point of view there are a few things Desalator could improve with very little cost. I appreciate they don't change the product every two years and forget about spareparts for the installed base, like many companies do, but there are some obvious thing they could improve like many Amel owners already did themselves.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121 


-- 
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 

 


--
Arnold
SY Zephyr SM203


--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98


hanspeter baettig
 

Thanks John
Yes Electec is a good company. I will go tomorrow to speak with them about the end caps from DesalI. I have still 6 end caps, 2 of them with the hp water inlet, from Desal, He sended to me last year for testing, for free. So I have now a good ouverlook whats happend, when the end caps cracked on the connection. And yes, it is verry imortant to put the O rings very carefully in place.

Best regards and stay save
Hanspeter
SM # 16 Tamango 2, Marigot, St. Martin

----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----
Von : john.biohead@...
Datum : 21/04/2020 - 19:14 (MSN)
An : main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Betreff : Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Membrane Tube end caps

Han, I had end caps made out of delrin in St Martin.  The machine shop is E&Msc.  It is behind Lagoonies.  The machinist made a few changes to beef them up.  I have run them now for two years with no issues.  

John Clark
SV Annie. SM 37
St Thomas USVI

On Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 6:59 PM hanspeter baettig < hanspeter.baettig@...> wrote:
Jean-Pierre
I think it‘s unfair to broadcast such negative things about Desal, . Amel is still installing Desal Watermakers and I had very good experiances with SAV Dessalator. Mr Wagner jun. and his team is helpful and have a amazing knowledge about H2O makers.
So pls. we know us , be specific what was your problem with SAV. Maybe I can help you, cause I have a very good contact with Wagner
best
en confinité à St. Martin
Hanspeter
Tamango 2
SM16

------ Original Nachricht ------
Am Montag, 20. Apr, 2020 um 20:55, Germain Jean-Pierre schrieb:

Hi Bill,

Thanks.  I also took the entire holder to the shop… to verify the interior measurements.  I suspect the new ones will be made to a closer tolerance.

Dessalator after sales service has been non existent. 

Cheers,


Jean-Pierre Germain
jp.germain45@...



On 21 Apr 2020, at 06:51, CW Bill Rouse < brouse@...> wrote:

FYI, Dessalator originally made the membrane tube end caps out of white nylon. Emek copied Dessalator. Dessalator's choice of Nylon proved to be the wrong choice. Dessalator later made end caps from a harder material which was black. I am not sure of what the black material is, but, in my experience is that there have been very few issues with the Dessalator black end caps.
--
 
Best,
 
CW Bill Rouse
Amel Owners Yacht School
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970




Ken Powers SV Aquarius
 

If you're leaking product then it's a low pressure line that is leaking.  I would start at the product end of the tubes and it shouldn't be too tough to find the leak.  Follow all the lines until they terminate at the hose going into the tank.

Ken Powers
Aquarius
SM2K #262
Locked Down in Thailand.


Arno Luijten
 

Hi Hanspeter,

I'm quite close to you, in the Fort Louis Marina. Be advised you are not allowed to go to the Dutch side. Yesterday they even had an incident with someone trying to cross the border. Not the best way to make the local newspaper...

Also be advised that Ile Marine on the French side is the "official" Desalator dealer for St. Martin/St. MAarten. Electec does have spare membranes in stock most of the time, but no other parts that suit Desalator. Ile marine does carry some parts for Desalator but not all.

Ile Marine is at the Sandy Grounds Bridge behind the fuel-dock.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


 

I bought Dessalator parts from Ile Marine on the French side. Guy (forget last name) owned it. It was named Ile Budget Marine. He ordered high pressure hose and a PCB controller from Dessalator for me. I had the parts within a week. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse 
Amel Owners Yacht School
+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com 
Yacht School Calendar: www.preparetocastoff.blogspot.com/p/calendar.html


   


On Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 9:29 AM Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:
Hi Hanspeter,

I'm quite close to you, in the Fort Louis Marina. Be advised you are not allowed to go to the Dutch side. Yesterday they even had an incident with someone trying to cross the border. Not the best way to make the local newspaper...

Also be advised that Ile Marine on the French side is the "official" Desalator dealer for St. Martin/St. MAarten. Electec does have spare membranes in stock most of the time, but no other parts that suit Desalator. Ile marine does carry some parts for Desalator but not all.

Ile Marine is at the Sandy Grounds Bridge behind the fuel-dock.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Arno Luijten
 

Hi Bill,

Guy has sold the business to Florian Saltel (a former employee). Guy moved to Canada last year. Their connection to Budget is informal now and the name is no longer carried in the store. Currently they operate in a sort of "Drive/Sail By" mode allowing people to get their boating supplies.
Crossing the separation between the Dutch and French side, even by boat, is highly regulated and requires paperwork.

Someone should invent a usable spray-can against Covid-19....

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


hanspeter baettig
 

Thanks Arno

I‘m on ancor in the lagoon, Nettle Bay. I know Ile Marine very good . Florian the shop manager is a friend of me and he likes very much my swiss chess fondue 😅
I shall pass by you to say hello in the next days when I go shopping at Super U in Marigot

Regards
Hanspeter
Tamango 2
SN 16
St. Martin
------ Original Nachricht
------



Am Donnerstag, 23. Apr, 2020 um 16:29, Arno Luijten schrieb:

Hi Hanspeter,

I'm quite close to you, in the Fort Louis Marina. Be advised you are not allowed to go to the Dutch side. Yesterday they even had an incident with someone trying to cross the border. Not the best way to make the local newspaper...

Also be advised that Ile Marine on the French side is the "official" Desalator dealer for St. Martin/St. MAarten. Electec does have spare membranes in stock most of the time, but no other parts that suit Desalator. Ile marine does carry some parts for Desalator but not all.

Ile Marine is at the Sandy Grounds Bridge behind the fuel-dock.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121