Mizzen Balooner falls


JOSE PRIETO
 

Sailing with 10/12 kt downwind, Jib, Mizzen and the mizzen balloner. Calm sea.suddenly the mizzen balloner falls into the water!

I retracted the sail and found that the halyard block that is on top of the mizzen mast fell off!  Inspecting the block, it is intact, but without the shackle that holds it to the mast.  It could have been the shackle pin that broke, or there was a material failure in the fastening.  I had inspected everything 6 months ago.  Thank God the block didn't come down with me hanging!  I report this as a warning to the group, because when we have to climb the mizzen mast, we don't have another block with a cable for Security. I would like suggestions from the group on how to reinstall the block and install another one with a different cable?  Remembering that there is no other cable to climb to the top of the mast.  Will I need to remove the mast to do this?

Thanks in advance

JP

--
Jose Prieto
SV Wayag, SM 323
Currently Alicante, Spain


Chuck_Kim_Joy
 

Use mizzen halyard to go up the mast. Buy an additional length of rope and two new blocks. Go up and replace your port block and install a duplicate block opposite it. There is a place for a second block. Run new line. Now you have a safety static line. Wire tie blocks. 
Chuck 
Joy 388

On Sun, May 22, 2022 at 3:39 PM JOSE PRIETO <prietomd11@...> wrote:

Sailing with 10/12 kt downwind, Jib, Mizzen and the mizzen balloner. Calm sea.suddenly the mizzen balloner falls into the water!

I retracted the sail and found that the halyard block that is on top of the mizzen mast fell off!  Inspecting the block, it is intact, but without the shackle that holds it to the mast.  It could have been the shackle pin that broke, or there was a material failure in the fastening.  I had inspected everything 6 months ago.  Thank God the block didn't come down with me hanging!  I report this as a warning to the group, because when we have to climb the mizzen mast, we don't have another block with a cable for Security. I would like suggestions from the group on how to reinstall the block and install another one with a different cable?  Remembering that there is no other cable to climb to the top of the mast.  Will I need to remove the mast to do this?

Thanks in advance

JP

--
Jose Prieto
SV Wayag, SM 323
Currently Alicante, Spain


Michael Winand
 

I have used the mizzen halyard as a second line. 
Michael Nebo sm251 

On Mon, 23 May 2022, 6:17 am Chuck_Kim_Joy, <clacey9@...> wrote:
Use mizzen halyard to go up the mast. Buy an additional length of rope and two new blocks. Go up and replace your port block and install a duplicate block opposite it. There is a place for a second block. Run new line. Now you have a safety static line. Wire tie blocks. 
Chuck 
Joy 388

On Sun, May 22, 2022 at 3:39 PM JOSE PRIETO <prietomd11@...> wrote:

Sailing with 10/12 kt downwind, Jib, Mizzen and the mizzen balloner. Calm sea.suddenly the mizzen balloner falls into the water!

I retracted the sail and found that the halyard block that is on top of the mizzen mast fell off!  Inspecting the block, it is intact, but without the shackle that holds it to the mast.  It could have been the shackle pin that broke, or there was a material failure in the fastening.  I had inspected everything 6 months ago.  Thank God the block didn't come down with me hanging!  I report this as a warning to the group, because when we have to climb the mizzen mast, we don't have another block with a cable for Security. I would like suggestions from the group on how to reinstall the block and install another one with a different cable?  Remembering that there is no other cable to climb to the top of the mast.  Will I need to remove the mast to do this?

Thanks in advance

JP

--
Jose Prieto
SV Wayag, SM 323
Currently Alicante, Spain


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi JP, you have just reinforced my rule. I will never go up the mast on an external block halyard. On the main mast there is a spare internal halyard. On the mizzen I lower the sail and use that halyard. To replace your block I commend that method to go up.
Kind regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl

On 23/05/2022 07:39 JOSE PRIETO <prietomd11@...> wrote:


Sailing with 10/12 kt downwind, Jib, Mizzen and the mizzen balloner. Calm sea.suddenly the mizzen balloner falls into the water!

I retracted the sail and found that the halyard block that is on top of the mizzen mast fell off!  Inspecting the block, it is intact, but without the shackle that holds it to the mast.  It could have been the shackle pin that broke, or there was a material failure in the fastening.  I had inspected everything 6 months ago.  Thank God the block didn't come down with me hanging!  I report this as a warning to the group, because when we have to climb the mizzen mast, we don't have another block with a cable for Security. I would like suggestions from the group on how to reinstall the block and install another one with a different cable?  Remembering that there is no other cable to climb to the top of the mast.  Will I need to remove the mast to do this?

Thanks in advance

JP

--
Jose Prieto
SV Wayag, SM 323
Currently Alicante, Spain


JOSE PRIETO
 

Hi Chuck, Michael and Danny, 
thanks so much for the advice!

Tomorrow I’ll post a picture from the block.

Cheers,

JP
--
Jose Prieto
SV Wayag, SM 323
Currently Alicante, Spain


Ian Park
 

Jose
If you don’t have a second safety line put a prussik loop round the mast and clip it into your harness/chair. Slide it up the mast as you go. Take a second one with you for when you reach the spreaders so you can put that on above the spreaders so you’re always attached. 8mm rope or tape will do to make a large loop sling to do the job.

Ian


Mark Erdos
 

Hi JP,

Very good advice.

When the riggers did work on our boat, they asked to remove the mizzen
sail. They ran alonger line and used the internal halyard rather than
the external one. It took them less than 10 minutes to do this. This
prevented the scenio you discribe. They said they avoid external
halyards at all cost. After talkingg to them about people they have
known to be hurt, I can't blame them for taking a little extra time to
be safe. Also, they snapped on with a safety line as they worked -
something I see very few people do.

Thanks for sharing. You might have saved someone from being badly hurt.

Mark

On 5/22/22, JOSE PRIETO <prietomd11@...> wrote:



Sailing with 10/12 kt downwind, Jib, Mizzen and the mizzen balloner. Calm
sea.suddenly the mizzen balloner falls into the water!

I retracted the sail and found that the halyard block that is on top of the
mizzen mast fell off! Inspecting the block, it is intact, but without the
shackle that holds it to the mast. It could have been the shackle pin that
broke, or there was a material failure in the fastening. I had inspected
everything 6 months ago. Thank God the block didn't come down with me
hanging! I report this as a warning to the group, because when we have to
climb the mizzen mast, we don't have another block with a cable for
Security. I would like suggestions from the group on how to reinstall the
block and install another one with a different cable? Remembering that there
is no other cable to climb to the top of the mast. Will I need to remove the
mast to do this?

Thanks in advance

JP

--
Jose Prieto
SV Wayag, SM 323
Currently Alicante, Spain






Bill Kinney
 

The first time I ever went up a mast (it was November, 1999) I reached the top of the mast, and the primary halyard lifting me BROKE. Fortunately, I had a safety line, tailed by a second person on deck, but that 4 inch drop before the safety line came tight is an experience I’ll never forget.  I have been deadly careful with work aloft ever since.

Our boat came to us with fixed lines that went to eyebolts attached to the top of both masts.  They are routinely secured to the rail, but are always brought into the mast and tensioned on a winch when I am going up.  I use a climber’s “ascender” on this as my safety. Works like a prussik, just a bit easier for me to handle.

As an related comment on mast climbing safety, NEVER go up a mast on a “low stretch” cored halyard.  Dyneema, spectra, Kevlar, whatever.  While these are incredibly strong when new, they are damaged when they go over sheaves under high load, or are locked in clutches or even tied off on cleats. The damage is slow, but it is real.  Since the damage is all to the core, you can not see it. The cover on these lines is just to protect the line from sun, and is very weak.

At least three times I have see a high tech line fail under very low load, even though it LOOKED perfect on the outside.  If you need to climb a mast, and a core dependent line is the only one available, replace it with a standard polyester double braid line for the climb.  If that has been damaged you can see it.

This is a place where very careful attention to detail can literally be the difference between life and death.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Le Marin, Martinique.


Paul
 

On Mon, May 23, 2022 at 07:28 PM, Bill Kinney wrote:
Our boat came to us with fixed lines that went to eyebolts attached to the top of both masts.  They are routinely secured to the rail, but are always brought into the mast and tensioned on a winch when I am going up.
Bill do you have any photographs of this set up ?

It sounds like a really good addition to the mizzen and main mast.

We will be stopping in Port Townsend for a rig inspection at Brion Toss Rigging this summer, I would like to add your set up to our list of projects.

Thank you

Paul Guenette
SM 444, Aramis
Vancouver, BC, Canada


JOSE PRIETO
 

Hi Mark,

From the forum experience, the use of the mizzen halyard to climb the mast will be my standard now.

Thanks

JP
--
Jose Prieto
SV Wayag, SM 323
Currently Alicante, Spain


Peter Colclough
 

I have read the safety measures taken by many with interest and have another to add to the list. 
We always test the halyard first by me being suspended above the deck by a few feet then my wife sits on my lap and we bounce in unison. ( not sure what the other boats in the anchorage are thinking). By my reckoning this will test it to a safety factor some thing in the order of 2.
Peter Colclough
Brigantes
Super Maramu
Greece 


On 24 May 2022, at 03:28, Bill Kinney <cruisingconsulting@...> wrote:

The first time I ever went up a mast (it was November, 1999) I reached the top of the mast, and the primary halyard lifting me BROKE. Fortunately, I had a safety line, tailed by a second person on deck, but that 4 inch drop before the safety line came tight is an experience I’ll never forget.  I have been deadly careful with work aloft ever since.

Our boat came to us with fixed lines that went to eyebolts attached to the top of both masts.  They are routinely secured to the rail, but are always brought into the mast and tensioned on a winch when I am going up.  I use a climber’s “ascender” on this as my safety. Works like a prussik, just a bit easier for me to handle.

As an related comment on mast climbing safety, NEVER go up a mast on a “low stretch” cored halyard.  Dyneema, spectra, Kevlar, whatever.  While these are incredibly strong when new, they are damaged when they go over sheaves under high load, or are locked in clutches or even tied off on cleats. The damage is slow, but it is real.  Since the damage is all to the core, you can not see it. The cover on these lines is just to protect the line from sun, and is very weak.

At least three times I have see a high tech line fail under very low load, even though it LOOKED perfect on the outside.  If you need to climb a mast, and a core dependent line is the only one available, replace it with a standard polyester double braid line for the climb.  If that has been damaged you can see it.

This is a place where very careful attention to detail can literally be the difference between life and death.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Le Marin, Martinique.


rossirossix4
 

Hi Bill,
Interesting.  I had a rapid chafe failure in such a line once and chaulked it up to a bad outer sheath.  Would you suggest using a standard core for the sail halyard as well?  I'm in the process of replacing mine.  Also makes me wonder about the use of these low stretch, high strength in other runnig rigging?  Most running rigging on our Amel goes through something  with an even sharper radius than a mast sheave.  It might not be "life or death" but some real bad things could happen.

Bob

KAIMI SM429


Courtney Gorman
 

What ever you do Don’t repeat your estimate to your wife!   Unless you plan on sleeping with the fishes 😬


On May 25, 2022, at 12:48 AM, rossirossix4 <rossidesigngroup@...> wrote:



Hi Bill,
Interesting.  I had a rapid chafe failure in such a line once and chaulked it up to a bad outer sheath.  Would you suggest using a standard core for the sail halyard as well?  I'm in the process of replacing mine.  Also makes me wonder about the use of these low stretch, high strength in other runnig rigging?  Most running rigging on our Amel goes through something  with an even sharper radius than a mast sheave.  It might not be "life or death" but some real bad things could happen.

Bob

KAIMI SM429


Bill Kinney
 

Bob,  

I would absolutely NOT recommend switching the high tech halyard for a standard Dacron line for sailing.  The reason we use high tech lines in this application is not for their strength, but for their low stretch.  Many of the rigging systems on an Amel just would not work with “stretchy” line.  I’m thinking of the main outhaul and jib car adjusters here.

These lines do last years, and if they fail in normal use, it’s rarely life threatening, although it can certainly be a pain in the butt.  As an example, we recently had our main outhaul line fail in relatively modest sailing conditions. This was 12mm V100 line, over 6 years old (installed by the previous owner) and the cover looked like new, but the core pulled apart where it turned around the sheave at the end of the boom.  It was interesting, hearing a loud “pop”. “What was that?” Then another “POP”, and about 5 or six more over 3 or 4 minutes, and suddenly the outhaul car is adrift.

12mm V100 has a rated breaking strength (when new) of 19,000 lbs.  There is no way the load even came close. I’d have been surprised if it was 5% of that.  The diameter of the sheave is just a little bit under the minimum recommended for this type of line in this size.  The line just wore out, and this is the important part!) in a way that was totally invisible to even the most careful inspection.

If I wanted to be very confident of avoiding failure in routine use, I’d likely replace any high tech line every 5 years, or at very least cutting it back so the line bent over a sheave are a different point. I’m not a professional rigger, and the few times I have broached this topic with riggers they either didn’t understand the issue, or they just didn’t want to talk about it.

I’m a firm believer that the type of line to be used is part of the engineering of the entire system.  Amel’s line specifications are in a file on the forum, and I would stick with them. 

Our approach on our boat is to use the 10mm Dacron ballooner halyard as the primary lift for going up the main mast, and a line reaved in place of the mizzen halyard for going up the mizzen.  

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Le Marin, Martinique


Bill Kinney
 

Our boat came to us with fixed lines that went to eyebolts attached to the top of both masts.  They are routinely secured to the rail, but are always brought into the mast and tensioned on a winch when I am going up.
Bill do you have any photographs of this set up ? 
Paul,

I am pretty sure I do have masthead photos that will help, clarify this but it will be a few days before I can dive into the photo archives and find them.  So many projects while we are here, and so little time!

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Le Marin, Martinique 






JOSE PRIETO
 

The culprit!

JP
--
Jose Prieto
SV Wayag, SM 323
Currently Alicante, Spain