Topics

Mizzen furler gearbox, A54 peculiarity?

Sv Garulfo
 

Hi all,

In the great document by Gary Silver about the overhaul of the SM Mizzen furler gearbox (thanks Arno for sending us a low bandwidth friendly version), it is mentioned that the bottom part of the gearbox housing is drilled with 2 holes that are used to both unscrew that part (with great efforts) and drain the gearbox of liquids. 

As our gearbox got stiffer recently, I removed it and it appears that those 2 holes are not through openings.. thus not acting as drains. And the gearbox was full of rainwater up to the attachment bolts. Arno tells me he saw the same. 
So the teflon bushing got very dirty and stiff with all sorts of deposits. 

Does anybody know why the drains are no longer machined through? Is it an A54 “innovation”? 
It doesn’t really make sense and I’m thinking of drilling those holes all the way through to reinstate the drain. Any word of advice against that idea?

Thanks for your input

Best, 


Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Tahuata, French Polynesia 


Mohammad Shirloo
 

Hi Thomas;

 

We had the same stiffening within a year of purchasing Kokomo. It got progressively worse to a point that we felt we may be damaging the gears by placing the amount of force required to furl and unfurl. I removed the gear box and found, as you did, a lot of water inside the box. We were in a situation that we did not have enough time to try and figure out how to get into the gear box and find a permanent solution. We drained it, let it dry out in the sun for a day and sprayed a good amount CorrosionX inside a temporary measure. That was four years ago and the furler has been super smooth since.

 

Happy Sailing;

 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

AMEL 54 #099

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sv Garulfo via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2020 9:25 PM
To: Amel Yacht owners Group <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Mizzen furler gearbox, A54 peculiarity?

 

Hi all,

 

In the great document by Gary Silver about the overhaul of the SM Mizzen furler gearbox (thanks Arno for sending us a low bandwidth friendly version), it is mentioned that the bottom part of the gearbox housing is drilled with 2 holes that are used to both unscrew that part (with great efforts) and drain the gearbox of liquids. 

 

As our gearbox got stiffer recently, I removed it and it appears that those 2 holes are not through openings.. thus not acting as drains. And the gearbox was full of rainwater up to the attachment bolts. Arno tells me he saw the same. 

So the teflon bushing got very dirty and stiff with all sorts of deposits. 

 

Does anybody know why the drains are no longer machined through? Is it an A54 “innovation”? 

It doesn’t really make sense and I’m thinking of drilling those holes all the way through to reinstate the drain. Any word of advice against that idea?

 

Thanks for your input

 

Best, 

 

 

Thomas

GARULFO 

A54-122

Tahuata, French Polynesia 

 

 

 

I don't know, but I can guess.

I think Amel used that same "mechanical furl" gearbox with some vertical electric furling motors (later model 54 main furler). This may be the reason the drain holes were taken away.
image.png

Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 11:50 AM Sv Garulfo <svgarulfo@...> wrote:
Hi all,

In the great document by Gary Silver about the overhaul of the SM Mizzen furler gearbox (thanks Arno for sending us a low bandwidth friendly version), it is mentioned that the bottom part of the gearbox housing is drilled with 2 holes that are used to both unscrew that part (with great efforts) and drain the gearbox of liquids. 

As our gearbox got stiffer recently, I removed it and it appears that those 2 holes are not through openings.. thus not acting as drains. And the gearbox was full of rainwater up to the attachment bolts. Arno tells me he saw the same. 
So the teflon bushing got very dirty and stiff with all sorts of deposits. 

Does anybody know why the drains are no longer machined through? Is it an A54 “innovation”? 
It doesn’t really make sense and I’m thinking of drilling those holes all the way through to reinstate the drain. Any word of advice against that idea?

Thanks for your input

Best, 


Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Tahuata, French Polynesia 


Randall
 

Thomas,
I removed disassembled and cleaned my mizzen outhaul last fall. You don't need to drop sail. The issue will be in the Delrin bushings that become very stiff. I have attached 2 pictures of my work. The bearings are not to be lubed/greased. I used a cheap homemade tool to unscrew the bottom. 2cm square bar 2 drill holes straight through, put the drill bits in so the solid end goes into the bottom of the furler, with furler in a vice. Worked great. 
I finished and put on a video from a fellow Amel owner who did the same job. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB67b2hK-kA&t=657s
They do the job at 8.02 of the video. If you need more info let me know. Use the bar not the saw.
Cheers.
 
Randall
A54 #56
Gibraltar



On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 6:50 PM Sv Garulfo <svgarulfo@...> wrote:
Hi all,

In the great document by Gary Silver about the overhaul of the SM Mizzen furler gearbox (thanks Arno for sending us a low bandwidth friendly version), it is mentioned that the bottom part of the gearbox housing is drilled with 2 holes that are used to both unscrew that part (with great efforts) and drain the gearbox of liquids. 

As our gearbox got stiffer recently, I removed it and it appears that those 2 holes are not through openings.. thus not acting as drains. And the gearbox was full of rainwater up to the attachment bolts. Arno tells me he saw the same. 
So the teflon bushing got very dirty and stiff with all sorts of deposits. 

Does anybody know why the drains are no longer machined through? Is it an A54 “innovation”? 
It doesn’t really make sense and I’m thinking of drilling those holes all the way through to reinstate the drain. Any word of advice against that idea?

Thanks for your input

Best, 


Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Tahuata, French Polynesia 


Mohammad Shirloo
 

Hi Randall;

 

Although our “temporary” fix of spraying CorrosionX in the furler has lasted over 4 years and the furler is still very smooth, it has been on our list to service the unit, once we figure out how to get into it. I have a few questions that I would appreciate your response on:

 

  1. Were you able to simply untwist the bottom cap of the furler assembly with the tool you sketched?
  2. All that was required was to clean everything inside?
  3. Were you able to reuse the bearing?
  4. Any other parts or lubrications needed?

 

Thanks for providing this very useful information and sharing your experience.

 

Happy Sailing;

 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

AMEL 54 #099

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Randall via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 12:41 PM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Mizzen furler gearbox, A54 peculiarity?

 

Thomas,

I removed disassembled and cleaned my mizzen outhaul last fall. You don't need to drop sail. The issue will be in the Delrin bushings that become very stiff. I have attached 2 pictures of my work. The bearings are not to be lubed/greased. I used a cheap homemade tool to unscrew the bottom. 2cm square bar 2 drill holes straight through, put the drill bits in so the solid end goes into the bottom of the furler, with furler in a vice. Worked great. 

I finished and put on a video from a fellow Amel owner who did the same job. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB67b2hK-kA&t=657s

They do the job at 8.02 of the video. If you need more info let me know. Use the bar not the saw.

Cheers.

 

Randall

A54 #56

Gibraltar

 

 

 

On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 6:50 PM Sv Garulfo <svgarulfo@...> wrote:

Hi all,

 

In the great document by Gary Silver about the overhaul of the SM Mizzen furler gearbox (thanks Arno for sending us a low bandwidth friendly version), it is mentioned that the bottom part of the gearbox housing is drilled with 2 holes that are used to both unscrew that part (with great efforts) and drain the gearbox of liquids. 

 

As our gearbox got stiffer recently, I removed it and it appears that those 2 holes are not through openings.. thus not acting as drains. And the gearbox was full of rainwater up to the attachment bolts. Arno tells me he saw the same. 

So the teflon bushing got very dirty and stiff with all sorts of deposits. 

 

Does anybody know why the drains are no longer machined through? Is it an A54 “innovation”? 

It doesn’t really make sense and I’m thinking of drilling those holes all the way through to reinstate the drain. Any word of advice against that idea?

 

Thanks for your input

 

Best, 

 

 

Thomas

GARULFO 

A54-122

Tahuata, French Polynesia 

 

 

Randall
 

Hello Mohammad and Aty,

Were you able to simply untwist the bottom cap of the furler assembly with the tool you sketched
Unbolt the furler from the foil, I used the uphaul to raise the foil enough to clear furler. Remove 2 bolts that hold furler to the mast.
Then you will need a sturdy vice and a form of wrap to protect the aluminium casing from the vice teeth.

First loosen the bottom, counter clockwise. Just a turn or two.
Then remove the cranking shaft, (keeping the cracking shaft in the furler, while loosening in the bottom, just helps hold the furler while loosening the bottom.)
Then finish removing the bottom. Caution first set of bearings are under the bottom cap.

The tool I showed was a square metal bar with two holes. The holes are the same spacing as the furler holes. The drill bits are the same size and simply use the bottom of the drill bits through the bar, and that will give you the ability to undo the end cap counter clockwise, and still have the two drill bits for future use.

All that was required was to clean everything inside? Were you able to reuse the bearing?
The bearings are dry, the same as in your travelers. I simply cleaned them and put them back in, no grease. They were very coated in salt, but not damaged.
The main issue was the Delrin/plastic inserts for the crank. After very carefully removing the Delrin, I cleaned and as I recall used some lithium grease on the gear shaft.
If I had to guess, the grease may not have been needed. 


Any other parts or lubrications needed?
If the mizzen is only stiff this can be done in a short time. I have attached the problem area picture and one from Bill Rouse showing the Delrin. I believe this is from his book, showing the Delrin pieces, there are two.
Also the holes in my furlers bottom did go straight through to give drainage as you can see in the teardown picture.
The hole project should only be time and some white grease.
Reassembly had only one puzzle ring moment! When you go to put the upper bearings in, push the internal mechanism in to a point you can just fit the upper bearings in then the rest will be easy.

Hope that helps,
Randall

On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 10:46 PM Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...> wrote:

Hi Randall;

 

Although our “temporary” fix of spraying CorrosionX in the furler has lasted over 4 years and the furler is still very smooth, it has been on our list to service the unit, once we figure out how to get into it. I have a few questions that I would appreciate your response on:

 

  1. Were you able to simply untwist the bottom cap of the furler assembly with the tool you sketched?
  2. All that was required was to clean everything inside?
  3. Were you able to reuse the bearing?
  4. Any other parts or lubrications needed?

 

Thanks for providing this very useful information and sharing your experience.

 

Happy Sailing;

 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

AMEL 54 #099

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Randall via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 12:41 PM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Mizzen furler gearbox, A54 peculiarity?

 

Thomas,

I removed disassembled and cleaned my mizzen outhaul last fall. You don't need to drop sail. The issue will be in the Delrin bushings that become very stiff. I have attached 2 pictures of my work. The bearings are not to be lubed/greased. I used a cheap homemade tool to unscrew the bottom. 2cm square bar 2 drill holes straight through, put the drill bits in so the solid end goes into the bottom of the furler, with furler in a vice. Worked great. 

I finished and put on a video from a fellow Amel owner who did the same job. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB67b2hK-kA&t=657s

They do the job at 8.02 of the video. If you need more info let me know. Use the bar not the saw.

Cheers.

 

Randall

A54 #56

Gibraltar

 

 

 

On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 6:50 PM Sv Garulfo <svgarulfo@...> wrote:

Hi all,

 

In the great document by Gary Silver about the overhaul of the SM Mizzen furler gearbox (thanks Arno for sending us a low bandwidth friendly version), it is mentioned that the bottom part of the gearbox housing is drilled with 2 holes that are used to both unscrew that part (with great efforts) and drain the gearbox of liquids. 

 

As our gearbox got stiffer recently, I removed it and it appears that those 2 holes are not through openings.. thus not acting as drains. And the gearbox was full of rainwater up to the attachment bolts. Arno tells me he saw the same. 

So the teflon bushing got very dirty and stiff with all sorts of deposits. 

 

Does anybody know why the drains are no longer machined through? Is it an A54 “innovation”? 

It doesn’t really make sense and I’m thinking of drilling those holes all the way through to reinstate the drain. Any word of advice against that idea?

 

Thanks for your input

 

Best, 

 

 

Thomas

GARULFO 

A54-122

Tahuata, French Polynesia 

 

 

Mohammad Shirloo
 

Thank you Randall for the detailed explanation.

 

Happy Sailing;

 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

AMEL 54 #099

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Randall via groups.io
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2020 3:28 AM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Mizzen furler gearbox, A54 peculiarity?

 

Hello Mohammad and Aty,

 

Were you able to simply untwist the bottom cap of the furler assembly with the tool you sketched

Unbolt the furler from the foil, I used the uphaul to raise the foil enough to clear furler. Remove 2 bolts that hold furler to the mast.

Then you will need a sturdy vice and a form of wrap to protect the aluminium casing from the vice teeth.

 

First loosen the bottom, counter clockwise. Just a turn or two.

Then remove the cranking shaft, (keeping the cracking shaft in the furler, while loosening in the bottom, just helps hold the furler while loosening the bottom.)

Then finish removing the bottom. Caution first set of bearings are under the bottom cap.

 

The tool I showed was a square metal bar with two holes. The holes are the same spacing as the furler holes. The drill bits are the same size and simply use the bottom of the drill bits through the bar, and that will give you the ability to undo the end cap counter clockwise, and still have the two drill bits for future use.

 

All that was required was to clean everything inside? Were you able to reuse the bearing?

The bearings are dry, the same as in your travelers. I simply cleaned them and put them back in, no grease. They were very coated in salt, but not damaged.

The main issue was the Delrin/plastic inserts for the crank. After very carefully removing the Delrin, I cleaned and as I recall used some lithium grease on the gear shaft.

If I had to guess, the grease may not have been needed. 

 

 

Any other parts or lubrications needed?

If the mizzen is only stiff this can be done in a short time. I have attached the problem area picture and one from Bill Rouse showing the Delrin. I believe this is from his book, showing the Delrin pieces, there are two.

Also the holes in my furlers bottom did go straight through to give drainage as you can see in the teardown picture.

The hole project should only be time and some white grease.

Reassembly had only one puzzle ring moment! When you go to put the upper bearings in, push the internal mechanism in to a point you can just fit the upper bearings in then the rest will be easy.

 

Hope that helps,

Randall

 

On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 10:46 PM Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...> wrote:

Hi Randall;

 

Although our “temporary” fix of spraying CorrosionX in the furler has lasted over 4 years and the furler is still very smooth, it has been on our list to service the unit, once we figure out how to get into it. I have a few questions that I would appreciate your response on:

 

  1. Were you able to simply untwist the bottom cap of the furler assembly with the tool you sketched?
  2. All that was required was to clean everything inside?
  3. Were you able to reuse the bearing?
  4. Any other parts or lubrications needed?

 

Thanks for providing this very useful information and sharing your experience.

 

Happy Sailing;

 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

AMEL 54 #099

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Randall via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 12:41 PM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Mizzen furler gearbox, A54 peculiarity?

 

Thomas,

I removed disassembled and cleaned my mizzen outhaul last fall. You don't need to drop sail. The issue will be in the Delrin bushings that become very stiff. I have attached 2 pictures of my work. The bearings are not to be lubed/greased. I used a cheap homemade tool to unscrew the bottom. 2cm square bar 2 drill holes straight through, put the drill bits in so the solid end goes into the bottom of the furler, with furler in a vice. Worked great. 

I finished and put on a video from a fellow Amel owner who did the same job. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB67b2hK-kA&t=657s

They do the job at 8.02 of the video. If you need more info let me know. Use the bar not the saw.

Cheers.

 

Randall

A54 #56

Gibraltar

 

 

 

On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 6:50 PM Sv Garulfo <svgarulfo@...> wrote:

Hi all,

 

In the great document by Gary Silver about the overhaul of the SM Mizzen furler gearbox (thanks Arno for sending us a low bandwidth friendly version), it is mentioned that the bottom part of the gearbox housing is drilled with 2 holes that are used to both unscrew that part (with great efforts) and drain the gearbox of liquids. 

 

As our gearbox got stiffer recently, I removed it and it appears that those 2 holes are not through openings.. thus not acting as drains. And the gearbox was full of rainwater up to the attachment bolts. Arno tells me he saw the same. 

So the teflon bushing got very dirty and stiff with all sorts of deposits. 

 

Does anybody know why the drains are no longer machined through? Is it an A54 “innovation”? 

It doesn’t really make sense and I’m thinking of drilling those holes all the way through to reinstate the drain. Any word of advice against that idea?

 

Thanks for your input

 

Best, 

 

 

Thomas

GARULFO 

A54-122

Tahuata, French Polynesia 

 

 

Sv Garulfo
 

Thanks Randall,

I will attempt to watch the video but I doubt the bandwidth here will allow that...

Further to Mohammad’s question, did you find a bearing inside or delrin balls like Gary described? 
As far as I can see through the horizontal shaft opening, there is a vertical element (consistent with the diagram in Gary’s document) that is supposed to be on a set of derlin balls at the bottom of the housing, but mine does not rotate at all. 

Clearly the gearing housing is not waterproof and without drains it will inevitably fill with dirt and water up to the attachment bolts. The bushing is then halfway soaked in that and the aluminium/stainless steel interface between the gearshaft and the winch handle socket attachment will corrode. The oxidation on the aluminium shaft will slowlly increase the friction to the bushing. The gears are moving freely otherwise. 

So, drill for drain or not? 


Thanks
Thomas

GARULFO 
A54-122
Tahuata, French Polynesia 




On Thu, 14 May 2020 at 10:11, Randall <sailingalbedo@...> wrote:
Thomas,
I removed disassembled and cleaned my mizzen outhaul last fall. You don't need to drop sail. The issue will be in the Delrin bushings that become very stiff. I have attached 2 pictures of my work. The bearings are not to be lubed/greased. I used a cheap homemade tool to unscrew the bottom. 2cm square bar 2 drill holes straight through, put the drill bits in so the solid end goes into the bottom of the furler, with furler in a vice. Worked great. 
I finished and put on a video from a fellow Amel owner who did the same job. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB67b2hK-kA&t=657s
They do the job at 8.02 of the video. If you need more info let me know. Use the bar not the saw.
Cheers.
 
Randall
A54 #56
Gibraltar



On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 6:50 PM Sv Garulfo <svgarulfo@...> wrote:
Hi all,

In the great document by Gary Silver about the overhaul of the SM Mizzen furler gearbox (thanks Arno for sending us a low bandwidth friendly version), it is mentioned that the bottom part of the gearbox housing is drilled with 2 holes that are used to both unscrew that part (with great efforts) and drain the gearbox of liquids. 

As our gearbox got stiffer recently, I removed it and it appears that those 2 holes are not through openings.. thus not acting as drains. And the gearbox was full of rainwater up to the attachment bolts. Arno tells me he saw the same. 
So the teflon bushing got very dirty and stiff with all sorts of deposits. 

Does anybody know why the drains are no longer machined through? Is it an A54 “innovation”? 
It doesn’t really make sense and I’m thinking of drilling those holes all the way through to reinstate the drain. Any word of advice against that idea?

Thanks for your input

Best, 


Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Tahuata, French Polynesia 


Randall
 

Thomas,

There were 2 sets of Delrin bearings 1st set just under the bottom cap and the other in the top. My furler took 2 hands and great force to turn.
Just like in the Delos video. If you look at the one picture you can see the place where the Delrin bushings in the cranking shaft with the gear, has eroded and that is where all of the stiffness is coming from.
I can only say that the 2 holes in my furler bottom go all the way through.
I intend to make a start to finish video of this. It was incredibly simple and now the furler moves like new.

Cheers,
Randall


On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 7:21 PM Sv Garulfo <svgarulfo@...> wrote:
Thanks Randall,

I will attempt to watch the video but I doubt the bandwidth here will allow that...

Further to Mohammad’s question, did you find a bearing inside or delrin balls like Gary described? 
As far as I can see through the horizontal shaft opening, there is a vertical element (consistent with the diagram in Gary’s document) that is supposed to be on a set of derlin balls at the bottom of the housing, but mine does not rotate at all. 

Clearly the gearing housing is not waterproof and without drains it will inevitably fill with dirt and water up to the attachment bolts. The bushing is then halfway soaked in that and the aluminium/stainless steel interface between the gearshaft and the winch handle socket attachment will corrode. The oxidation on the aluminium shaft will slowlly increase the friction to the bushing. The gears are moving freely otherwise. 

So, drill for drain or not? 


Thanks
Thomas

GARULFO 
A54-122
Tahuata, French Polynesia 




On Thu, 14 May 2020 at 10:11, Randall <sailingalbedo@...> wrote:
Thomas,
I removed disassembled and cleaned my mizzen outhaul last fall. You don't need to drop sail. The issue will be in the Delrin bushings that become very stiff. I have attached 2 pictures of my work. The bearings are not to be lubed/greased. I used a cheap homemade tool to unscrew the bottom. 2cm square bar 2 drill holes straight through, put the drill bits in so the solid end goes into the bottom of the furler, with furler in a vice. Worked great. 
I finished and put on a video from a fellow Amel owner who did the same job. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB67b2hK-kA&t=657s
They do the job at 8.02 of the video. If you need more info let me know. Use the bar not the saw.
Cheers.
 
Randall
A54 #56
Gibraltar



On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 6:50 PM Sv Garulfo <svgarulfo@...> wrote:
Hi all,

In the great document by Gary Silver about the overhaul of the SM Mizzen furler gearbox (thanks Arno for sending us a low bandwidth friendly version), it is mentioned that the bottom part of the gearbox housing is drilled with 2 holes that are used to both unscrew that part (with great efforts) and drain the gearbox of liquids. 

As our gearbox got stiffer recently, I removed it and it appears that those 2 holes are not through openings.. thus not acting as drains. And the gearbox was full of rainwater up to the attachment bolts. Arno tells me he saw the same. 
So the teflon bushing got very dirty and stiff with all sorts of deposits. 

Does anybody know why the drains are no longer machined through? Is it an A54 “innovation”? 
It doesn’t really make sense and I’m thinking of drilling those holes all the way through to reinstate the drain. Any word of advice against that idea?

Thanks for your input

Best, 


Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Tahuata, French Polynesia 


Sv Garulfo
 

Hi Randall & Mohammad,

In Randall’s picture, i noticed the gearbox housing is consistent with the drawing in Gary Silver’s document. 

My gearbox appears slightly different, at least from the outside. It doesn’t have a screwed top lid. 

Mohammad, 
what is your gearbox like? Mine or Randall’s? 
Does it have straight through drain holes?


Randall,
Did you have to apply great force to unscrew the bottom part? How much leverage does your tool have? How long is the handle?



Thanks

Thomas
A54-122
Tahuata, French Polynesia 



On Sat, 16 May 2020 at 02:13, Randall <sailingalbedo@...> wrote:
Thomas,

There were 2 sets of Delrin bearings 1st set just under the bottom cap and the other in the top. My furler took 2 hands and great force to turn.
Just like in the Delos video. If you look at the one picture you can see the place where the Delrin bushings in the cranking shaft with the gear, has eroded and that is where all of the stiffness is coming from.
I can only say that the 2 holes in my furler bottom go all the way through.
I intend to make a start to finish video of this. It was incredibly simple and now the furler moves like new.

Cheers,
Randall

On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 7:21 PM Sv Garulfo <svgarulfo@...> wrote:
Thanks Randall,

I will attempt to watch the video but I doubt the bandwidth here will allow that...

Further to Mohammad’s question, did you find a bearing inside or delrin balls like Gary described? 
As far as I can see through the horizontal shaft opening, there is a vertical element (consistent with the diagram in Gary’s document) that is supposed to be on a set of derlin balls at the bottom of the housing, but mine does not rotate at all. 

Clearly the gearing housing is not waterproof and without drains it will inevitably fill with dirt and water up to the attachment bolts. The bushing is then halfway soaked in that and the aluminium/stainless steel interface between the gearshaft and the winch handle socket attachment will corrode. The oxidation on the aluminium shaft will slowlly increase the friction to the bushing. The gears are moving freely otherwise. 

So, drill for drain or not? 


Thanks
Thomas

GARULFO 
A54-122
Tahuata, French Polynesia 




On Thu, 14 May 2020 at 10:11, Randall <sailingalbedo@...> wrote:
Thomas,
I removed disassembled and cleaned my mizzen outhaul last fall. You don't need to drop sail. The issue will be in the Delrin bushings that become very stiff. I have attached 2 pictures of my work. The bearings are not to be lubed/greased. I used a cheap homemade tool to unscrew the bottom. 2cm square bar 2 drill holes straight through, put the drill bits in so the solid end goes into the bottom of the furler, with furler in a vice. Worked great. 
I finished and put on a video from a fellow Amel owner who did the same job. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB67b2hK-kA&t=657s
They do the job at 8.02 of the video. If you need more info let me know. Use the bar not the saw.
Cheers.
 
Randall
A54 #56
Gibraltar



On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 6:50 PM Sv Garulfo <svgarulfo@...> wrote:
Hi all,

In the great document by Gary Silver about the overhaul of the SM Mizzen furler gearbox (thanks Arno for sending us a low bandwidth friendly version), it is mentioned that the bottom part of the gearbox housing is drilled with 2 holes that are used to both unscrew that part (with great efforts) and drain the gearbox of liquids. 

As our gearbox got stiffer recently, I removed it and it appears that those 2 holes are not through openings.. thus not acting as drains. And the gearbox was full of rainwater up to the attachment bolts. Arno tells me he saw the same. 
So the teflon bushing got very dirty and stiff with all sorts of deposits. 

Does anybody know why the drains are no longer machined through? Is it an A54 “innovation”? 
It doesn’t really make sense and I’m thinking of drilling those holes all the way through to reinstate the drain. Any word of advice against that idea?

Thanks for your input

Best, 


Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Tahuata, French Polynesia 


Mohammad Shirloo
 

Hi Thomas;

 

Unfortunately, we are not on board, so I cannot definitively answer your question. However, I do recall holding the gear box in my hands and wondering how to get into it. If there was a screw cap, it would have drawn my attention to it. That plus a lack of time, led me to just spray the CorosionX inside. So, I’m guessing that ours looks more like yours, without a cap.

 

Happy Sailing;

 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

AMEL 54 #099

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sv Garulfo via groups.io
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2020 4:52 PM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Mizzen furler gearbox, A54 peculiarity?

 

Hi Randall & Mohammad,

 

In Randall’s picture, i noticed the gearbox housing is consistent with the drawing in Gary Silver’s document. 

 

My gearbox appears slightly different, at least from the outside. It doesn’t have a screwed top lid. 

 

Mohammad, 

what is your gearbox like? Mine or Randall’s? 

Does it have straight through drain holes?

 

 

Randall,

Did you have to apply great force to unscrew the bottom part? How much leverage does your tool have? How long is the handle?

 

 

 

Thanks

 

Thomas

A54-122

Tahuata, French Polynesia 

 

 

 

On Sat, 16 May 2020 at 02:13, Randall <sailingalbedo@...> wrote:

Thomas,

 

There were 2 sets of Delrin bearings 1st set just under the bottom cap and the other in the top. My furler took 2 hands and great force to turn.

Just like in the Delos video. If you look at the one picture you can see the place where the Delrin bushings in the cranking shaft with the gear, has eroded and that is where all of the stiffness is coming from.

I can only say that the 2 holes in my furler bottom go all the way through.

I intend to make a start to finish video of this. It was incredibly simple and now the furler moves like new.

 

Cheers,

Randall

 

On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 7:21 PM Sv Garulfo <svgarulfo@...> wrote:

Thanks Randall,

 

I will attempt to watch the video but I doubt the bandwidth here will allow that...

 

Further to Mohammad’s question, did you find a bearing inside or delrin balls like Gary described? 

As far as I can see through the horizontal shaft opening, there is a vertical element (consistent with the diagram in Gary’s document) that is supposed to be on a set of derlin balls at the bottom of the housing, but mine does not rotate at all. 

 

Clearly the gearing housing is not waterproof and without drains it will inevitably fill with dirt and water up to the attachment bolts. The bushing is then halfway soaked in that and the aluminium/stainless steel interface between the gearshaft and the winch handle socket attachment will corrode. The oxidation on the aluminium shaft will slowlly increase the friction to the bushing. The gears are moving freely otherwise. 

 

So, drill for drain or not? 

 

 

Thanks

Thomas

 

GARULFO 

A54-122

Tahuata, French Polynesia 

 

 

 

 

On Thu, 14 May 2020 at 10:11, Randall <sailingalbedo@...> wrote:

Thomas,

I removed disassembled and cleaned my mizzen outhaul last fall. You don't need to drop sail. The issue will be in the Delrin bushings that become very stiff. I have attached 2 pictures of my work. The bearings are not to be lubed/greased. I used a cheap homemade tool to unscrew the bottom. 2cm square bar 2 drill holes straight through, put the drill bits in so the solid end goes into the bottom of the furler, with furler in a vice. Worked great. 

I finished and put on a video from a fellow Amel owner who did the same job. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB67b2hK-kA&t=657s

They do the job at 8.02 of the video. If you need more info let me know. Use the bar not the saw.

Cheers.

 

Randall

A54 #56

Gibraltar

 

 

 

On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 6:50 PM Sv Garulfo <svgarulfo@...> wrote:

Hi all,

 

In the great document by Gary Silver about the overhaul of the SM Mizzen furler gearbox (thanks Arno for sending us a low bandwidth friendly version), it is mentioned that the bottom part of the gearbox housing is drilled with 2 holes that are used to both unscrew that part (with great efforts) and drain the gearbox of liquids. 

 

As our gearbox got stiffer recently, I removed it and it appears that those 2 holes are not through openings.. thus not acting as drains. And the gearbox was full of rainwater up to the attachment bolts. Arno tells me he saw the same. 

So the teflon bushing got very dirty and stiff with all sorts of deposits. 

 

Does anybody know why the drains are no longer machined through? Is it an A54 “innovation”? 

It doesn’t really make sense and I’m thinking of drilling those holes all the way through to reinstate the drain. Any word of advice against that idea?

 

Thanks for your input

 

Best, 

 

 

Thomas

GARULFO 

A54-122

Tahuata, French Polynesia 

 

 

Randall
 

Thomas,
I have inverted the picture. My furler only opens from the bottom, it just appears too open at the top. I think it was just a different casting, but the unit is the same.
The bar with the 2 drill bits passed through was just a scrap 2 foot length,18 inches to 24 will work.
A good vise, with a good wrap of bendable metal to protect the furler from vise teeth. If you put the crank handle shaft back in, it will keep the furler from turning in the vise.
Turn bottom a turn or two, then remove the crank handle shaft.
When putting the bearings back in after cleaning (do not grease bearings) insert internal gear up just far enough to feed the top set of bearings ,then push up, turn over put bottom bearings in tighten bottom, install Crank handle shaft. I doubt the unit will need to be done again for a long time, But anti seize may be an idea??

Hope that helps.
Randall
A54 #56
Still in Gib...

On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 1:53 AM Sv Garulfo <svgarulfo@...> wrote:
Hi Randall & Mohammad,

In Randall’s picture, i noticed the gearbox housing is consistent with the drawing in Gary Silver’s document. 

My gearbox appears slightly different, at least from the outside. It doesn’t have a screwed top lid. 

Mohammad, 
what is your gearbox like? Mine or Randall’s? 
Does it have straight through drain holes?


Randall,
Did you have to apply great force to unscrew the bottom part? How much leverage does your tool have? How long is the handle?



Thanks

Thomas
A54-122
Tahuata, French Polynesia 



On Sat, 16 May 2020 at 02:13, Randall <sailingalbedo@...> wrote:
Thomas,

There were 2 sets of Delrin bearings 1st set just under the bottom cap and the other in the top. My furler took 2 hands and great force to turn.
Just like in the Delos video. If you look at the one picture you can see the place where the Delrin bushings in the cranking shaft with the gear, has eroded and that is where all of the stiffness is coming from.
I can only say that the 2 holes in my furler bottom go all the way through.
I intend to make a start to finish video of this. It was incredibly simple and now the furler moves like new.

Cheers,
Randall

On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 7:21 PM Sv Garulfo <svgarulfo@...> wrote:
Thanks Randall,

I will attempt to watch the video but I doubt the bandwidth here will allow that...

Further to Mohammad’s question, did you find a bearing inside or delrin balls like Gary described? 
As far as I can see through the horizontal shaft opening, there is a vertical element (consistent with the diagram in Gary’s document) that is supposed to be on a set of derlin balls at the bottom of the housing, but mine does not rotate at all. 

Clearly the gearing housing is not waterproof and without drains it will inevitably fill with dirt and water up to the attachment bolts. The bushing is then halfway soaked in that and the aluminium/stainless steel interface between the gearshaft and the winch handle socket attachment will corrode. The oxidation on the aluminium shaft will slowlly increase the friction to the bushing. The gears are moving freely otherwise. 

So, drill for drain or not? 


Thanks
Thomas

GARULFO 
A54-122
Tahuata, French Polynesia 




On Thu, 14 May 2020 at 10:11, Randall <sailingalbedo@...> wrote:
Thomas,
I removed disassembled and cleaned my mizzen outhaul last fall. You don't need to drop sail. The issue will be in the Delrin bushings that become very stiff. I have attached 2 pictures of my work. The bearings are not to be lubed/greased. I used a cheap homemade tool to unscrew the bottom. 2cm square bar 2 drill holes straight through, put the drill bits in so the solid end goes into the bottom of the furler, with furler in a vice. Worked great. 
I finished and put on a video from a fellow Amel owner who did the same job. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB67b2hK-kA&t=657s
They do the job at 8.02 of the video. If you need more info let me know. Use the bar not the saw.
Cheers.
 
Randall
A54 #56
Gibraltar



On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 6:50 PM Sv Garulfo <svgarulfo@...> wrote:
Hi all,

In the great document by Gary Silver about the overhaul of the SM Mizzen furler gearbox (thanks Arno for sending us a low bandwidth friendly version), it is mentioned that the bottom part of the gearbox housing is drilled with 2 holes that are used to both unscrew that part (with great efforts) and drain the gearbox of liquids. 

As our gearbox got stiffer recently, I removed it and it appears that those 2 holes are not through openings.. thus not acting as drains. And the gearbox was full of rainwater up to the attachment bolts. Arno tells me he saw the same. 
So the teflon bushing got very dirty and stiff with all sorts of deposits. 

Does anybody know why the drains are no longer machined through? Is it an A54 “innovation”? 
It doesn’t really make sense and I’m thinking of drilling those holes all the way through to reinstate the drain. Any word of advice against that idea?

Thanks for your input

Best, 


Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Tahuata, French Polynesia 


Sv Garulfo
 

Hi Randall 

Thanks for that explanation

Do you remember if the internal column (vertical axis) is in 2 parts that are free to move  with respect to each other?

In mine, when the furler turns, the top part of the internal column (with the teeth) turns, but the bottom part does not (does not bulge at all). I’m puzzled as to whether that’s expected or not. The movement of the top part is smooth and feels normal. 
If I look at the drawing of the SM furler, I can’t see how the bottom part (part #9) would move so freely from the top part (part #6). 
image1.jpeg


Best,

Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Tahuata, French Polynesia 


On Tue, 19 May 2020 at 04:27, Randall <sailingalbedo@...> wrote:
Thomas,
I have inverted the picture. My furler only opens from the bottom, it just appears too open at the top. I think it was just a different casting, but the unit is the same.
The bar with the 2 drill bits passed through was just a scrap 2 foot length,18 inches to 24 will work.
A good vise, with a good wrap of bendable metal to protect the furler from vise teeth. If you put the crank handle shaft back in, it will keep the furler from turning in the vise.
Turn bottom a turn or two, then remove the crank handle shaft.
When putting the bearings back in after cleaning (do not grease bearings) insert internal gear up just far enough to feed the top set of bearings ,then push up, turn over put bottom bearings in tighten bottom, install Crank handle shaft. I doubt the unit will need to be done again for a long time, But anti seize may be an idea??

Hope that helps.
Randall
A54 #56
Still in Gib...

On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 1:53 AM Sv Garulfo <svgarulfo@...> wrote:
Hi Randall & Mohammad,

In Randall’s picture, i noticed the gearbox housing is consistent with the drawing in Gary Silver’s document. 

My gearbox appears slightly different, at least from the outside. It doesn’t have a screwed top lid. 

Mohammad, 
what is your gearbox like? Mine or Randall’s? 
Does it have straight through drain holes?


Randall,
Did you have to apply great force to unscrew the bottom part? How much leverage does your tool have? How long is the handle?



Thanks

Thomas
A54-122
Tahuata, French Polynesia 



On Sat, 16 May 2020 at 02:13, Randall <sailingalbedo@...> wrote:
Thomas,

There were 2 sets of Delrin bearings 1st set just under the bottom cap and the other in the top. My furler took 2 hands and great force to turn.
Just like in the Delos video. If you look at the one picture you can see the place where the Delrin bushings in the cranking shaft with the gear, has eroded and that is where all of the stiffness is coming from.
I can only say that the 2 holes in my furler bottom go all the way through.
I intend to make a start to finish video of this. It was incredibly simple and now the furler moves like new.

Cheers,
Randall

On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 7:21 PM Sv Garulfo <svgarulfo@...> wrote:
Thanks Randall,

I will attempt to watch the video but I doubt the bandwidth here will allow that...

Further to Mohammad’s question, did you find a bearing inside or delrin balls like Gary described? 
As far as I can see through the horizontal shaft opening, there is a vertical element (consistent with the diagram in Gary’s document) that is supposed to be on a set of derlin balls at the bottom of the housing, but mine does not rotate at all. 

Clearly the gearing housing is not waterproof and without drains it will inevitably fill with dirt and water up to the attachment bolts. The bushing is then halfway soaked in that and the aluminium/stainless steel interface between the gearshaft and the winch handle socket attachment will corrode. The oxidation on the aluminium shaft will slowlly increase the friction to the bushing. The gears are moving freely otherwise. 

So, drill for drain or not? 


Thanks
Thomas

GARULFO 
A54-122
Tahuata, French Polynesia 




On Thu, 14 May 2020 at 10:11, Randall <sailingalbedo@...> wrote:
Thomas,
I removed disassembled and cleaned my mizzen outhaul last fall. You don't need to drop sail. The issue will be in the Delrin bushings that become very stiff. I have attached 2 pictures of my work. The bearings are not to be lubed/greased. I used a cheap homemade tool to unscrew the bottom. 2cm square bar 2 drill holes straight through, put the drill bits in so the solid end goes into the bottom of the furler, with furler in a vice. Worked great. 
I finished and put on a video from a fellow Amel owner who did the same job. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB67b2hK-kA&t=657s
They do the job at 8.02 of the video. If you need more info let me know. Use the bar not the saw.
Cheers.
 
Randall
A54 #56
Gibraltar



On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 6:50 PM Sv Garulfo <svgarulfo@...> wrote:
Hi all,

In the great document by Gary Silver about the overhaul of the SM Mizzen furler gearbox (thanks Arno for sending us a low bandwidth friendly version), it is mentioned that the bottom part of the gearbox housing is drilled with 2 holes that are used to both unscrew that part (with great efforts) and drain the gearbox of liquids. 

As our gearbox got stiffer recently, I removed it and it appears that those 2 holes are not through openings.. thus not acting as drains. And the gearbox was full of rainwater up to the attachment bolts. Arno tells me he saw the same. 
So the teflon bushing got very dirty and stiff with all sorts of deposits. 

Does anybody know why the drains are no longer machined through? Is it an A54 “innovation”? 
It doesn’t really make sense and I’m thinking of drilling those holes all the way through to reinstate the drain. Any word of advice against that idea?

Thanks for your input

Best, 


Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Tahuata, French Polynesia 


Sv Garulfo
 


Hi,

To close the thread:

I gave up on trying to unscrew the bottom. It was getting too risky to damage the unit and no one would be impressed with the drama. 

I think the only difference between the SM and the A54 (later hull numbers) gearboxes is 
1. the absence of top screwed lid on the A54 version,
2. The bottom lid holes are not drilled through on the 54. 

The rest is designed the same. I eventually managed to loosen the bottom part of the internal column. After much fresh water cleaning, the column rotates freely. 

I drilled the bottom lid holes through. They now act as drains like on the SM. I find that makes more sense. 

I cleaned the horizontal winch handle shaft and bushing. This is where the stiffness really comes from. I treated the aluminium/stainless steel interface with Tef-Gel.

I lightly greased the gears interface with marine grade grease. I left the Delrin balls alone and I’ll monitor how that evolves. 


Thanks all for your help,

Thomas 
A54-122
Tahuata, French Polynesia 






On Tue, 19 May 2020 at 08:29, Sv Garulfo via groups.io <svgarulfo=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Randall 

Thanks for that explanation

Do you remember if the internal column (vertical axis) is in 2 parts that are free to move  with respect to each other?

In mine, when the furler turns, the top part of the internal column (with the teeth) turns, but the bottom part does not (does not bulge at all). I’m puzzled as to whether that’s expected or not. The movement of the top part is smooth and feels normal. 
If I look at the drawing of the SM furler, I can’t see how the bottom part (part #9) would move so freely from the top part (part #6). 
image1.jpeg


Best,

Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Tahuata, French Polynesia 


On Tue, 19 May 2020 at 04:27, Randall <sailingalbedo@...> wrote:
Thomas,
I have inverted the picture. My furler only opens from the bottom, it just appears too open at the top. I think it was just a different casting, but the unit is the same.
The bar with the 2 drill bits passed through was just a scrap 2 foot length,18 inches to 24 will work.
A good vise, with a good wrap of bendable metal to protect the furler from vise teeth. If you put the crank handle shaft back in, it will keep the furler from turning in the vise.
Turn bottom a turn or two, then remove the crank handle shaft.
When putting the bearings back in after cleaning (do not grease bearings) insert internal gear up just far enough to feed the top set of bearings ,then push up, turn over put bottom bearings in tighten bottom, install Crank handle shaft. I doubt the unit will need to be done again for a long time, But anti seize may be an idea??

Hope that helps.
Randall
A54 #56
Still in Gib...

On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 1:53 AM Sv Garulfo <svgarulfo@...> wrote:
Hi Randall & Mohammad,

In Randall’s picture, i noticed the gearbox housing is consistent with the drawing in Gary Silver’s document. 

My gearbox appears slightly different, at least from the outside. It doesn’t have a screwed top lid. 

Mohammad, 
what is your gearbox like? Mine or Randall’s? 
Does it have straight through drain holes?


Randall,
Did you have to apply great force to unscrew the bottom part? How much leverage does your tool have? How long is the handle?



Thanks

Thomas
A54-122
Tahuata, French Polynesia 



On Sat, 16 May 2020 at 02:13, Randall <sailingalbedo@...> wrote:
Thomas,

There were 2 sets of Delrin bearings 1st set just under the bottom cap and the other in the top. My furler took 2 hands and great force to turn.
Just like in the Delos video. If you look at the one picture you can see the place where the Delrin bushings in the cranking shaft with the gear, has eroded and that is where all of the stiffness is coming from.
I can only say that the 2 holes in my furler bottom go all the way through.
I intend to make a start to finish video of this. It was incredibly simple and now the furler moves like new.

Cheers,
Randall

On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 7:21 PM Sv Garulfo <svgarulfo@...> wrote:
Thanks Randall,

I will attempt to watch the video but I doubt the bandwidth here will allow that...

Further to Mohammad’s question, did you find a bearing inside or delrin balls like Gary described? 
As far as I can see through the horizontal shaft opening, there is a vertical element (consistent with the diagram in Gary’s document) that is supposed to be on a set of derlin balls at the bottom of the housing, but mine does not rotate at all. 

Clearly the gearing housing is not waterproof and without drains it will inevitably fill with dirt and water up to the attachment bolts. The bushing is then halfway soaked in that and the aluminium/stainless steel interface between the gearshaft and the winch handle socket attachment will corrode. The oxidation on the aluminium shaft will slowlly increase the friction to the bushing. The gears are moving freely otherwise. 

So, drill for drain or not? 


Thanks
Thomas

GARULFO 
A54-122
Tahuata, French Polynesia 




On Thu, 14 May 2020 at 10:11, Randall <sailingalbedo@...> wrote:
Thomas,
I removed disassembled and cleaned my mizzen outhaul last fall. You don't need to drop sail. The issue will be in the Delrin bushings that become very stiff. I have attached 2 pictures of my work. The bearings are not to be lubed/greased. I used a cheap homemade tool to unscrew the bottom. 2cm square bar 2 drill holes straight through, put the drill bits in so the solid end goes into the bottom of the furler, with furler in a vice. Worked great. 
I finished and put on a video from a fellow Amel owner who did the same job. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB67b2hK-kA&t=657s
They do the job at 8.02 of the video. If you need more info let me know. Use the bar not the saw.
Cheers.
 
Randall
A54 #56
Gibraltar



On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 6:50 PM Sv Garulfo <svgarulfo@...> wrote:
Hi all,

In the great document by Gary Silver about the overhaul of the SM Mizzen furler gearbox (thanks Arno for sending us a low bandwidth friendly version), it is mentioned that the bottom part of the gearbox housing is drilled with 2 holes that are used to both unscrew that part (with great efforts) and drain the gearbox of liquids. 

As our gearbox got stiffer recently, I removed it and it appears that those 2 holes are not through openings.. thus not acting as drains. And the gearbox was full of rainwater up to the attachment bolts. Arno tells me he saw the same. 
So the teflon bushing got very dirty and stiff with all sorts of deposits. 

Does anybody know why the drains are no longer machined through? Is it an A54 “innovation”? 
It doesn’t really make sense and I’m thinking of drilling those holes all the way through to reinstate the drain. Any word of advice against that idea?

Thanks for your input

Best, 


Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Tahuata, French Polynesia