Net call - potential water ingress point on all Super Maramus


Marty Crighton
 

Hello all,
We are relatively new owners of our SM. This community has been a fantastic resource and was one of the reasons we decided to purchase an Amel. (There is great comfort in numbers and even more when those numbers are other owners all of whom have far more knowledge and wisdom and are willing to share.)
In keeping with that tradition I want to alert all SM owners of an issue we found that I suspect exists across the fleet, and one I have not seen addressed recently in this forum. The issue is standing water in the engine room exhaust cavity inside/under the portside cockpit combing. On our boat the drain hole for that cavity is just behind the aft-most hinge of the portside cockpit locker. However that is not the lowpoint in that cavity. The low point is the corner just aft of the drain hole where the cavity, combing and bulkhead meet. This creates space for water to stand.
The second issue discovered is that the bond between the cavity, the combing, and the bulkhead is an adhesive bond. On the inside the corners/edges are not glassed. On our boat that adhesive bond began to fail and that led to water damage along the bulkhead in the aft head. Given the hidden point of the water ingress there was no way to fix the issue until there was visible damage.
This potential weak point is well hidden. I'll leave it to those much smarter and experienced with these great boats to explain why a vent cover was not installed, but based on the standing water we found in that cavity, and the condition of the adhesive we are installing a vent cover to limit the amount of rain water that accumulates.
We did a week of testing to determine how much water gets into that cavity under normal conditions and found it to be significant. In a steady rain the inboard edge will collect over a 1/4 inch of water in 30 min. 
Based on the age of these boats thought those who were not aware might benefit from what we have found and learned and would be grateful for any insights anyone has as to further prevention. 
Respectfully, 
Marty


--
Marty and Angela Crighton
Nada, SM2K #327
Grenada


 

Marty,

Thanks for posting. Can you give a description for each of these 3 photos? I randomly assigned numbers to them 1-3 below.

image.png

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar

On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 11:41 AM Marty Crighton <dogfacedsailor@...> wrote:
Hello all,
We are relatively new owners of our SM. This community has been a fantastic resource and was one of the reasons we decided to purchase an Amel. (There is great comfort in numbers and even more when those numbers are other owners all of whom have far more knowledge and wisdom and are willing to share.)
In keeping with that tradition I want to alert all SM owners of an issue we found that I suspect exists across the fleet, and one I have not seen addressed recently in this forum. The issue is standing water in the engine room exhaust cavity inside/under the portside cockpit combing. On our boat the drain hole for that cavity is just behind the aft-most hinge of the portside cockpit locker. However that is not the lowpoint in that cavity. The low point is the corner just aft of the drain hole where the cavity, combing and bulkhead meet. This creates space for water to stand.
The second issue discovered is that the bond between the cavity, the combing, and the bulkhead is an adhesive bond. On the inside the corners/edges are not glassed. On our boat that adhesive bond began to fail and that led to water damage along the bulkhead in the aft head. Given the hidden point of the water ingress there was no way to fix the issue until there was visible damage.
This potential weak point is well hidden. I'll leave it to those much smarter and experienced with these great boats to explain why a vent cover was not installed, but based on the standing water we found in that cavity, and the condition of the adhesive we are installing a vent cover to limit the amount of rain water that accumulates.
We did a week of testing to determine how much water gets into that cavity under normal conditions and found it to be significant. In a steady rain the inboard edge will collect over a 1/4 inch of water in 30 min. 
Based on the age of these boats thought those who were not aware might benefit from what we have found and learned and would be grateful for any insights anyone has as to further prevention. 
Respectfully, 
Marty


--
Marty and Angela Crighton
Nada, SM2K #327
Grenada


Marty Crighton
 

Bill - sorry should have done that when I sent it.
All three photos are of the inside of the exhaust cavity looking inboard from the exhaust hole towards the wall of the cavity parallel to the cockpit combing. The throughbolts belong to the aft-most hinge of the portside cockpit locker.
Photo1 is a close up of the drain hole.
Photo 2 is a wider angle of the drain hole with the adhesive visible.
Photo 3 is of the low spot in the cavity aft of the hinge and drain hole. In our experience, this area collects water and where the adhesive deterioration took place and the point of water ingress. 
Marty

NADA, SM2K #327
Grenada


--
Marty and Angela Crighton
Future Amel Owners
Pyeongtaek, South Korea


Craig Briggs
 

Hi Marty,
Sounds like the notorious "Amel stern squat" may be causing water to pool in the aft portion of the vent compartment - often exacerbated by "stuff" on the stern (arch, davits, outboard in rear lazarett). Add 10 shots of anchor chain forward and see if it fixes it. 
Craig - SN68 Sangaris, in Oriental, NC "the sailing capital of North Carolina"


Marty Crighton
 

Craig - sound advice, thanks. We will add that to our preventative measures.
Still can't see any good reason to have an opening like that in the first place without a vent cover. In our testing it was surprising how fast and how much rain water runs into and through that compartment. Even if one gets the boat better balanced, when the adhesive bond breaks down, and it will at some point, there will be water ingress and no one will be the wiser until it is too late. Between that compartment and the bulkhead there are significant voids many filled with foam. In fact there is foam partially filling the void just behind the corner aft of the drain hole. That foam buts up against naked ply in the bulkhead.. Once that foam is saturated water has unlimited and long lasting contact with ply causing damage without any visible signs to an owner.
Respectfully,
Marty

Nada, SM2K #327
Grenada

On Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 17:06 Craig Briggs via groups.io <sangaris=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Marty,
Sounds like the notorious "Amel stern squat" may be causing water to pool in the aft portion of the vent compartment - often exacerbated by "stuff" on the stern (arch, davits, outboard in rear lazarett). Add 10 shots of anchor chain forward and see if it fixes it. 
Craig - SN68 Sangaris, in Oriental, NC "the sailing capital of North Carolina"


--
Marty and Angela Crighton
Future Amel Owners
Pyeongtaek, South Korea


John Clark
 

On Annie SM37 we have not experienced water pooling up in that space, nor do I see exposed plywood.  
Would a flexible rubberized paint be a good preventative?  Think “flexseal” as a continuous membrane throughout the small space?  

Regards,  John Clark 

On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 6:59 PM Marty Crighton <dogfacedsailor@...> wrote:
Craig - sound advice, thanks. We will add that to our preventative measures.
Still can't see any good reason to have an opening like that in the first place without a vent cover. In our testing it was surprising how fast and how much rain water runs into and through that compartment. Even if one gets the boat better balanced, when the adhesive bond breaks down, and it will at some point, there will be water ingress and no one will be the wiser until it is too late. Between that compartment and the bulkhead there are significant voids many filled with foam. In fact there is foam partially filling the void just behind the corner aft of the drain hole. That foam buts up against naked ply in the bulkhead.. Once that foam is saturated water has unlimited and long lasting contact with ply causing damage without any visible signs to an owner.
Respectfully,
Marty

Nada, SM2K #327
Grenada

On Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 17:06 Craig Briggs via groups.io <sangaris=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Marty,
Sounds like the notorious "Amel stern squat" may be causing water to pool in the aft portion of the vent compartment - often exacerbated by "stuff" on the stern (arch, davits, outboard in rear lazarett). Add 10 shots of anchor chain forward and see if it fixes it. 
Craig - SN68 Sangaris, in Oriental, NC "the sailing capital of North Carolina"

--
Marty and Angela Crighton
Future Amel Owners
Pyeongtaek, South Korea


Marty Crighton
 

John - the ply is the bulkhead. Only an issue if there is water ingress.
Flexseal or similar might work. On our boat there is a black coating that is beginning to wear off that may have been a similar product used by Amel during manufacture.
Respectfully 
Marty


On Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 19:34 John Clark <john.biohead@...> wrote:
On Annie SM37 we have not experienced water pooling up in that space, nor do I see exposed plywood.  
Would a flexible rubberized paint be a good preventative?  Think “flexseal” as a continuous membrane throughout the small space?  

Regards,  John Clark 

On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 6:59 PM Marty Crighton <dogfacedsailor@...> wrote:
Craig - sound advice, thanks. We will add that to our preventative measures.
Still can't see any good reason to have an opening like that in the first place without a vent cover. In our testing it was surprising how fast and how much rain water runs into and through that compartment. Even if one gets the boat better balanced, when the adhesive bond breaks down, and it will at some point, there will be water ingress and no one will be the wiser until it is too late. Between that compartment and the bulkhead there are significant voids many filled with foam. In fact there is foam partially filling the void just behind the corner aft of the drain hole. That foam buts up against naked ply in the bulkhead.. Once that foam is saturated water has unlimited and long lasting contact with ply causing damage without any visible signs to an owner.
Respectfully,
Marty

Nada, SM2K #327
Grenada

On Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 17:06 Craig Briggs via groups.io <sangaris=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Marty,
Sounds like the notorious "Amel stern squat" may be causing water to pool in the aft portion of the vent compartment - often exacerbated by "stuff" on the stern (arch, davits, outboard in rear lazarett). Add 10 shots of anchor chain forward and see if it fixes it. 
Craig - SN68 Sangaris, in Oriental, NC "the sailing capital of North Carolina"

--
Marty and Angela Crighton
Future Amel Owners
Pyeongtaek, South Korea


--
Marty and Angela Crighton
Future Amel Owners
Pyeongtaek, South Korea


John Clark
 

Right, the interior of that “amel dorade” is coated with a black paint like material. I never gave it much 
thought.   Glad to be alerted to a sensitive spot.  

On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 7:40 PM Marty Crighton <dogfacedsailor@...> wrote:
John - the ply is the bulkhead. Only an issue if there is water ingress.
Flexseal or similar might work. On our boat there is a black coating that is beginning to wear off that may have been a similar product used by Amel during manufacture.
Respectfully 
Marty

On Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 19:34 John Clark <john.biohead@...> wrote:
On Annie SM37 we have not experienced water pooling up in that space, nor do I see exposed plywood.  
Would a flexible rubberized paint be a good preventative?  Think “flexseal” as a continuous membrane throughout the small space?  

Regards,  John Clark 

On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 6:59 PM Marty Crighton <dogfacedsailor@...> wrote:
Craig - sound advice, thanks. We will add that to our preventative measures.
Still can't see any good reason to have an opening like that in the first place without a vent cover. In our testing it was surprising how fast and how much rain water runs into and through that compartment. Even if one gets the boat better balanced, when the adhesive bond breaks down, and it will at some point, there will be water ingress and no one will be the wiser until it is too late. Between that compartment and the bulkhead there are significant voids many filled with foam. In fact there is foam partially filling the void just behind the corner aft of the drain hole. That foam buts up against naked ply in the bulkhead.. Once that foam is saturated water has unlimited and long lasting contact with ply causing damage without any visible signs to an owner.
Respectfully,
Marty

Nada, SM2K #327
Grenada

On Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 17:06 Craig Briggs via groups.io <sangaris=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Marty,
Sounds like the notorious "Amel stern squat" may be causing water to pool in the aft portion of the vent compartment - often exacerbated by "stuff" on the stern (arch, davits, outboard in rear lazarett). Add 10 shots of anchor chain forward and see if it fixes it. 
Craig - SN68 Sangaris, in Oriental, NC "the sailing capital of North Carolina"

--
Marty and Angela Crighton
Future Amel Owners
Pyeongtaek, South Korea


--
Marty and Angela Crighton
Future Amel Owners
Pyeongtaek, South Korea


Mike Longcor (SV Trilogy)
 

Hi Marty,

We have this type of cover installed over our vent hole. It's angled down and aft so keeps out almost all rainwater. I'll admit it has been kicked a couple times but other than stray feet, it's mostly out of the way.

Cheers,
Mike Longcor
SV Trilogy SM23
NZ

On Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 5:41 AM Marty Crighton <dogfacedsailor@...> wrote:
Hello all,
We are relatively new owners of our SM. This community has been a fantastic resource and was one of the reasons we decided to purchase an Amel. (There is great comfort in numbers and even more when those numbers are other owners all of whom have far more knowledge and wisdom and are willing to share.)
In keeping with that tradition I want to alert all SM owners of an issue we found that I suspect exists across the fleet, and one I have not seen addressed recently in this forum. The issue is standing water in the engine room exhaust cavity inside/under the portside cockpit combing. On our boat the drain hole for that cavity is just behind the aft-most hinge of the portside cockpit locker. However that is not the lowpoint in that cavity. The low point is the corner just aft of the drain hole where the cavity, combing and bulkhead meet. This creates space for water to stand.
The second issue discovered is that the bond between the cavity, the combing, and the bulkhead is an adhesive bond. On the inside the corners/edges are not glassed. On our boat that adhesive bond began to fail and that led to water damage along the bulkhead in the aft head. Given the hidden point of the water ingress there was no way to fix the issue until there was visible damage.
This potential weak point is well hidden. I'll leave it to those much smarter and experienced with these great boats to explain why a vent cover was not installed, but based on the standing water we found in that cavity, and the condition of the adhesive we are installing a vent cover to limit the amount of rain water that accumulates.
We did a week of testing to determine how much water gets into that cavity under normal conditions and found it to be significant. In a steady rain the inboard edge will collect over a 1/4 inch of water in 30 min. 
Based on the age of these boats thought those who were not aware might benefit from what we have found and learned and would be grateful for any insights anyone has as to further prevention. 
Respectfully, 
Marty


--
Marty and Angela Crighton
Nada, SM2K #327
Grenada