Topics

New Thread on A54 fridge pumps (ATTN: OLIVER Vela Nautica)


Scott SV Tengah
 

Arno,

I just measured and got 26+ volts. 

The Frigoboat interface itself indicator shows 24v.

On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 10:36 AM Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:
Hi Jamie,

I’m surprised you measure 24 volt. When I did the same I measured exactly half the voltage of the 24 volt system (about 13 volts when you are on shore power).
Did you measure under load? The whole Frigoboat system is made up in such a way it does not matter if your ships system is 12 or 24 volt. The compressor also reduces the actual supply voltage of the compressor motor to 12 volt irrespectively of the power-supply.

I recommend you check it once more. Maybe use a lightbulb to make up some load. If you still measure 24 Volt your switchbox may be broken, also explaining you extreme short lifespan of the pump. 

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Barry Connor
 

Hi all,

I have 2 pumps set up. A 12v and 24v, both work. My panel indicates that it is running 24v which is lit up.
I am metering 12v going into both pumps.
Just changed to make sure and they are both running OK.
I would like to help buy this fridge pump thingy is something else. I have a few spare pumps. Both 12v and 24v.

Very Best

Barry and Penny
“SV Lady Penelope II”
Amel 54. #17
Sainte Anne anchorage Martinique 









n Jul 2, 2020, at 16:55, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:


Arno,

I just measured and got 26+ volts. 

The Frigoboat interface itself indicator shows 24v.

On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 10:36 AM Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:
Hi Jamie,

I’m surprised you measure 24 volt. When I did the same I measured exactly half the voltage of the 24 volt system (about 13 volts when you are on shore power).
Did you measure under load? The whole Frigoboat system is made up in such a way it does not matter if your ships system is 12 or 24 volt. The compressor also reduces the actual supply voltage of the compressor motor to 12 volt irrespectively of the power-supply.

I recommend you check it once more. Maybe use a lightbulb to make up some load. If you still measure 24 Volt your switchbox may be broken, also explaining you extreme short lifespan of the pump. 

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Scott SV Tengah
 

That is very weird. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but while the pumps are running, I stuck my test leads on positive and negative on the Pump +/- output on the interface. Clearly read 26v or more.

How is your pump life given your pumps are getting 12v to them. Any issues with your saloon freezer getting cold enough?

On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 11:26 AM Barry Connor via groups.io <connor_barry=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi all,

I have 2 pumps set up. A 12v and 24v, both work. My panel indicates that it is running 24v which is lit up.
I am metering 12v going into both pumps.
Just changed to make sure and they are both running OK.
I would like to help buy this fridge pump thingy is something else. I have a few spare pumps. Both 12v and 24v.

Very Best

Barry and Penny
“SV Lady Penelope II”
Amel 54. #17
Sainte Anne anchorage Martinique 









n Jul 2, 2020, at 16:55, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:


Arno,

I just measured and got 26+ volts. 

The Frigoboat interface itself indicator shows 24v.

On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 10:36 AM Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:
Hi Jamie,

I’m surprised you measure 24 volt. When I did the same I measured exactly half the voltage of the 24 volt system (about 13 volts when you are on shore power).
Did you measure under load? The whole Frigoboat system is made up in such a way it does not matter if your ships system is 12 or 24 volt. The compressor also reduces the actual supply voltage of the compressor motor to 12 volt irrespectively of the power-supply.

I recommend you check it once more. Maybe use a lightbulb to make up some load. If you still measure 24 Volt your switchbox may be broken, also explaining you extreme short lifespan of the pump. 

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


 

Here is the schematic showing that the power to the Frigoboat E51385 interface (Blue Box) comes directly from the Fan Output on the Danfoss compressor controller (1 of the 3 circled in red):
image.png


This is out of a Frigoboat Manual" which states the Fan Output terminals always output 12 volts regardless of whether the unit is connected to 24 volts or 12 volts.
image.png
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 4:34 PM Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:
That is very weird. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but while the pumps are running, I stuck my test leads on positive and negative on the Pump +/- output on the interface. Clearly read 26v or more.

How is your pump life given your pumps are getting 12v to them. Any issues with your saloon freezer getting cold enough?

On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 11:26 AM Barry Connor via groups.io <connor_barry=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi all,

I have 2 pumps set up. A 12v and 24v, both work. My panel indicates that it is running 24v which is lit up.
I am metering 12v going into both pumps.
Just changed to make sure and they are both running OK.
I would like to help buy this fridge pump thingy is something else. I have a few spare pumps. Both 12v and 24v.

Very Best

Barry and Penny
“SV Lady Penelope II”
Amel 54. #17
Sainte Anne anchorage Martinique 









n Jul 2, 2020, at 16:55, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:


Arno,

I just measured and got 26+ volts. 

The Frigoboat interface itself indicator shows 24v.

On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 10:36 AM Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:
Hi Jamie,

I’m surprised you measure 24 volt. When I did the same I measured exactly half the voltage of the 24 volt system (about 13 volts when you are on shore power).
Did you measure under load? The whole Frigoboat system is made up in such a way it does not matter if your ships system is 12 or 24 volt. The compressor also reduces the actual supply voltage of the compressor motor to 12 volt irrespectively of the power-supply.

I recommend you check it once more. Maybe use a lightbulb to make up some load. If you still measure 24 Volt your switchbox may be broken, also explaining you extreme short lifespan of the pump. 

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Arno Luijten
 

Hi Scott,

I’m pretty sure this thing is NOT supposed to output 24 volts. You may be able to check this on the website of Frigoboat.

Regards,

Arno Luijten,
SV Luna,
A54-121


Jamie Wendell
 

I just checked again and under load (with my new 12V pump) the pump output from the Frigoboat interface is clearly showing 24 volts, and the 24V light is on, just as in Scott's photo. It is as Scott indicated 25 or so volts - not 12v.

Somehow the interface is converting the compressor output BACK to 24 volts. I looked at the schematic, but it is a bit sketchy and not very detailed.

I got the 12-volt pump to run, but to get it running I had to replace the interface fuse with a 5 amp fuse. It is supposed to be 2 amp, and I have always needed a 3 amp. Now a 5 amp - wow??
I see the interface flashing "pump overload" every 5 minutes or so, and the pump is running very hot. That is likely because it is running at twice the speed.

I am working the brushless motor deal and have a question for Oliver. I got it working, but still have not tried the motor itself, as it has to be bolted down first. I am sure I can get a solution there.

In the meantime, at least I have refrigeration for now. The new Flojet is thermally protected, so I am pretty confident it will not burn up right away. One alternative might be to use a relay interface or DC converter that will in fact deliver 12 volts to the pump from another source in the engine room. We could use the interface pump output to drive the relay only.

Dazed and confused as always?
We have to come up with a solution here that can be replicated.

Jamie
Phantom, A54 #44


Dean Gillies
 

A few points from my understanding of the system.

The relay is driven by 12V. The system always drives the relay with 12V regardless of being operated from 24V. There is a reason for this which I won't elaborate.

The 51385 pump controller drives the pump with 12v, regardless of the 24V power supply. You may measure 24V with no load (pump) connected, but with the correct pump connected (and running) you should measure 12V.

If you measure 24V at the pump terminals while the correctly specified pump is operating then your 51395 has failed.

Cheers
Dean
SY Stella
A54-154



Sent from my iPhone X


Dean Gillies
 

Jamie,
Your 12V pump is looking for about 4A supply at 12V according to its specs. The system is designed to operate with a pump supply current of 1- 1.2A at 12V. I suspect you have damaged your 51385 module.

Scott,
Did you ever connect a different 12V pump from the specified pump by Frigidaire ? Maybe your 51385 is also fried.

Arno,
I agree with your description.

Jamie,
I suggest to buy the correct pump, and with a 'working' 51385 (operating at 12V) everything should be fine.

Using the correct 24V pump, the pump is safe under fault conditions, so you won't damage the pump if the voltage regulation on the 51385 fails. The 24V pump operates on a lighter duty than a 12V pump operating at full tilt. This extends its life and makes it quieter.

Just need to be careful with specs about the pumps. Veco rebadge the Flojet 24V pump as a '12V pump' for continuous duty at half the flow rate.
This can be very confusing when discussing the pump, or trying to replace it with a different one.

Fun and games indeed!

Dean

Sent from my iPhone X


Porter McRoberts
 

My controller also only puts out 24v. So I use 24v pumps only. And the controllers are no longer available says costal climate. But... pretty easy to build a 3 solenoid relay and a step down converter 24v-12v. That’s all that controller is. It would cost pennies.
Anyone done something similar?

On a separate note, what’s broken in the controller? Is there a manual override to force 12v? Could it be rewired? Fixed? Anyone taken one apart?

Lastly, just step down the 24v to 12v?

12v to a 24v pump would surely improve longevity

Some thoughts on this vexing problem.


Porter
A54-152 IBIS




Excuse the errors.
Sent from my IPhone
Www.fouribis.net

On Jul 2, 2020, at 10:04 PM, Dean Gillies <stella@...> wrote:

Jamie,
Your 12V pump is looking for about 4A supply at 12V according to its specs. The system is designed to operate with a pump supply current of 1- 1.2A at 12V. I suspect you have damaged your 51385 module.

Scott,
Did you ever connect a different 12V pump from the specified pump by Frigidaire ? Maybe your 51385 is also fried.

Arno,
I agree with your description.

Jamie,
I suggest to buy the correct pump, and with a 'working' 51385 (operating at 12V) everything should be fine.

Using the correct 24V pump, the pump is safe under fault conditions, so you won't damage the pump if the voltage regulation on the 51385 fails. The 24V pump operates on a lighter duty than a 12V pump operating at full tilt. This extends its life and makes it quieter.

Just need to be careful with specs about the pumps. Veco rebadge the Flojet 24V pump as a '12V pump' for continuous duty at half the flow rate.
This can be very confusing when discussing the pump, or trying to replace it with a different one.

Fun and games indeed!

Dean

Sent from my iPhone X



 

My response in red:
Jamie,
Your 12V pump is looking for about 4A supply at 12V according to its specs. The system is designed to operate with a pump supply current of 1- 1.2A at 12V. I suspect you have damaged your 51385 module. I don't think so. It is the Danfoss Compressor controller that has the limit. If you have an LED alarm you will get 2 Blinks with "Excessive load on fan terminals, above 0.7amps." Remember the voltage for the 51385 comes from the Danfoss Compressor controller. See schematic below with 1 Danfoss circled and also snips from the manual :
image.png
image.png
image.png
Scott,
Did you ever connect a different 12V pump from the specified pump by Frigidaire ? Maybe your 51385 is also fried.
Above
Arno,
I agree with your description.

Jamie,
I suggest to buy the correct pump, and with a 'working' 51385 (operating at 12V) everything should be fine.
Agree
Using the correct 24V pump, the pump is safe under fault conditions, so you won't damage the pump if the voltage regulation on the 51385 fails. The 24V pump operates on a lighter duty than a 12V pump operating at full tilt. This extends its life and makes it quieter.

Just need to be careful with specs about the pumps. Veco rebadge the Flojet 24V pump as a '12V pump' for continuous duty at half the flow rate.
This can be very confusing when discussing the pump, or trying to replace it with a different one.
Agree
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 9:04 PM Dean Gillies <stella@...> wrote:
Jamie,
Your 12V pump is looking for about 4A supply at 12V according to its specs. The system is designed to operate with a pump supply current of 1- 1.2A at 12V. I suspect you have damaged your 51385 module. 

Scott,
Did you ever connect a different 12V pump from the specified pump by Frigidaire ? Maybe your 51385 is also fried.

Arno,
I agree with your description.

Jamie,
I suggest to buy the correct pump, and with a 'working' 51385 (operating at 12V) everything should be fine.

Using the correct 24V pump, the pump is safe under fault conditions, so you won't damage the pump if the voltage regulation on the 51385 fails. The 24V pump operates on a lighter duty than a 12V pump operating at full tilt. This extends its life and makes it quieter.

Just need to be careful with specs about the pumps. Veco rebadge the Flojet 24V pump as a '12V pump' for continuous duty at half the flow rate.
This can be very confusing when discussing the pump, or trying to replace it with a different one.

Fun and games indeed!

Dean

X




Jamie Wendell
 

OK, my "final" update on the Flojet pump and Frigoboat E51385  interface. I cannot explain it, but the interface is definitely out-putting 24 volts to the pump at all times.
Maybe my interface is malfunctioning, so I installed a solid-state relay and a DC converter to step the voltage down to 12 volts. I used a 24-volt relay in place of the E
51385 pump connection and then feed the converter and pump via the live 24-volt terminal box in the engine room. The relay simply engages the pump when the compressors call for it.

A bit more complicated than I would like but the pump runs perfectly now and obviously I no longer get the pump overload signals at the interface. The higher capacity pump may draw more power, but it really cools down the 3 refrigerator units fast.

My next task is to get the brushless motor working to replace the Flojet motor. I will drive it directly via the 24-volt terminal block and eliminate the DC converter.

Until then I am "over and out" regarding this perplexing issue with the E
51385. I really appreciate all the suggestions and assistance, but will report once I have the brushless motor controller operational. That will be the gold standard.

Jamie
Phantom, A54 #44


 

Jamie,

I wish I was on your 54 with you because I have a burning question about all of this. and I have a recommendation for you.

My burning question:
If you see the schematic in my previous post in this thread, you will notice the schematic from a Frigoboat manual. The source of the voltage output from the E51385 blue box to the water pump originates in this schematic with each of the Danfoss Compressor Controllers at the F terminal. In fact, the two wires for each fridge unit come directly from the Danfoss to the E51385. The Frigoboat manual clearly states, regardless of the voltage of the fridge the output on the two F terminals is 12 volts. BTW, the Danfoss operates on 12 or 24 volts, but always outputs 12 volts to Terminal F. Have you checked the output voltage on each of the Danfoss on terminal F and the terminal next to it? I do not see any other way that the E51385 blue box can output 24 volts and if there is 24 volts on the Danfoss fan terminals, I suspect something is wrong with the Danfoss.

My recommendation:
Why don't you do this eliminating the E51385 and eliminate the limitation on amps on the Danfoss terminal F, and run a 24-volt pump??:
Relays to control water pump.jpg
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 2:02 PM Jamie Wendell <mysticshadow54@...> wrote:
OK, my "final" update on the Flojet pump and Frigoboat E51385  interface. I cannot explain it, but the interface is definitely out-putting 24 volts to the pump at all times.
Maybe my interface is malfunctioning, so I installed a solid-state relay and a DC converter to step the voltage down to 12 volts. I used a 24-volt relay in place of the E
51385 pump connection and then feed the converter and pump via the live 24-volt terminal box in the engine room. The relay simply engages the pump when the compressors call for it.

A bit more complicated than I would like but the pump runs perfectly now and obviously I no longer get the pump overload signals at the interface. The higher capacity pump may draw more power, but it really cools down the 3 refrigerator units fast.

My next task is to get the brushless motor working to replace the Flojet motor. I will drive it directly via the 24-volt terminal block and eliminate the DC converter.

Until then I am "over and out" regarding this perplexing issue with the E
51385. I really appreciate all the suggestions and assistance, but will report once I have the brushless motor controller operational. That will be the gold standard.

Jamie
Phantom, A54 #44


Scott SV Tengah
 

OK my mistake on measuring voltage. I do, in fact, get 12.85v under load at the Frigoboat E51385 interface pump output. I was "hoping" that it was 25v so that I could put in a simple voltage divider and hopefully solve my problem.

Back to finding a brushless motor that works.
--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Dean Gillies
 

Bill, in answer to your burning question.

The 24V supply comes from the Danfoss interface on the pins adjacent to the F pins. So, numbering the pins on the pump  interface From left to right as 1 thru 7. Pins 1,3 and 5 carry 24V supplied from Danfoss unit, pins 2,4 and 6 carry the F signals (0V or 12V) each of from the Danfoss controllers, pins 7 and 8 feed the pump and pin 9 is 0V (Negative battery terminal).

The F pins driving to 12V triggers the 51385 to operate the pump, using the power derived from pins 1,3 and 5.

If there is 24V on the F terminals then the Danfoss unit is indeed broken. I think this is highly unlikely. Wish I was on a boat to check too.

However, I'll stick my neck out here and say that I believe that 24V driven to the pump indicates a failed 51385 and not a failed Danfoss controller 🤔

best regards
Dean
SY Stella


Dean Gillies
 

Thanks for that update Scott. As I noted previously, this measurement must be made under load conditions. The good thing is that it indicates that your 51385 is ok.  

 Best regards, Dean


Dean Gillies
 
Edited

Hi Bill?
In relation you your response in red about the Danfoss controller ... 

I believe you misunderstood my statement. I was referring to the current supply from the E51385 to Jamie's pump, NOT the current supply from the Danfoss controller to the E51385 which is 12V max 0.7A (because that Danfoss controller was designed to power a fan). The 12V pump Jamie referred to is specified as drawing 3.9A at 12V.  The point I was trying to make is that 3.9A drawn from the E51385 to the Pump may be enough to damage the E51385. The 51385 is designed to operate at 1.2A.
 
I bought a spare E51385 a couple of months ago which is at home. I'm travelling at the moment, but will set it up and test on the bench in a few weeks to confirm what voltage a 'new' E51385 should supply under a 1.2A load.
 
 


X

On 4 Jul 2020, at 5:02 am, main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io<digestnoreply@groups.io> wrote:

 
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TOPICS IN THIS DIGEST:
.
1. Re: New Thread on A54 fridge pumps (ATTN: OLIVER Vela Nautica) (2)
2. Re: Skarki Headspace / Celing Height (3)
3. Re: crappy job ahead of me....... santorin waste pipe (3)
4. Re: sm 53 vs 54 (3)
5. Bamar EJF Furler
MESSAGES:
.
1a. 
Re: New Thread on A54 fridge pumps (ATTN: OLIVER Vela Nautica) 
From: CW Bill Rouse
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2020 21:40:29 AEST 

 

My response in red:
Jamie,
Your 12V pump is looking for about 4A supply at 12V according to its specs. The system is designed to operate with a pump supply current of 1- 1.2A at 12V. I suspect you have damaged your 51385 module. I don't think so. It is the Danfoss Compressor controller that has the limit. If you have an LED alarm you will get 2 Blinks with "Excessive load on fan terminals, above 0.7amps." Remember the voltage for the 51385 comes from the Danfoss Compressor controller. See schematic below with 1 Danfoss circled and also snips from the manual :
<image.png>
<image.png>
Scott,
Did you ever connect a different 12V pump from the specified pump by Frigidaire ? Maybe your 51385 is also fried.
Above
Arno,
I agree with your description.

Jamie,
I suggest to buy the correct pump, and with a 'working' 51385 (operating at 12V) everything should be fine.
Agree
Using the correct 24V pump, the pump is safe under fault conditions, so you won't damage the pump if the voltage regulation on the 51385 fails. The 24V pump operates on a lighter duty than a 12V pump operating at full tilt. This extends its life and makes it quieter.

Just need to be careful with specs about the pumps. Veco rebadge the Flojet 24V pump as a '12V pump' for continuous duty at half the flow rate.
This can be very confusing when discussing the pump, or trying to replace it with a different one.
Agree
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
 
  
 
View My Training Calendar

 

 Attachments:
 
 
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1b. 
Re: New Thread on A54 fridge pumps (ATTN: OLIVER Vela Nautica) 
From: Jamie Wendell
Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2020 05:02:01 AEST 

OK, my "final" update on the Flojet pump and Frigoboat E51385  interface. I cannot explain it, but the interface is definitely out-putting 24 volts to the pump at all times.
Maybe my interface is malfunctioning, so I installed a solid-state relay and a DC converter to step the voltage down to 12 volts. I used a 24-volt relay in place of the E
51385 pump connection and then feed the converter and pump via the live 24-volt terminal box in the engine room. The relay simply engages the pump when the compressors call for it.

A bit more complicated than I would like but the pump runs perfectly now and obviously I no longer get the pump overload signals at the interface. The higher capacity pump may draw more power, but it really cools down the 3 refrigerator units fast.

My next task is to get the brushless motor working to replace the Flojet motor. I will drive it directly via the 24-volt terminal block and eliminate the DC converter.

Until then I am "over and out" regarding this perplexing issue with the E
51385. I really appreciate all the suggestions and assistance, but will report once I have the brushless motor controller operational. That will be the gold standard.

Jamie
Phantom, A54 #44

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2a. 
Re: Skarki Headspace / Celing Height 
From: Ros Corcoran
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2020 21:54:18 AEST 

Hi Guys,

I am late to the party but I have the same questions as MATTHIAS, thank you very much for the already very useful measurements.

I am wondering the headroom in the head and also in the aft cabin and forward cabin?

I find it hard to measure those heights from the PDF.

Thank you

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2b. 
Re: Skarki Headspace / Celing Height 
From: Gerhard Mueller
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2020 22:25:52 AEST 

The headroom in the head is 180 centimeter and in the aft cabin is 160 centimeter and forward cabin is 184 centimeter.
All measured at highest places.
-- 
Gerhard Mueller
Amel Sharki #60
Currently Kalamata, Greece

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2c. 
Re: Skarki Headspace / Celing Height 
From: marklesparkle59
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2020 22:34:57 AEST 

 

Hi Ros,  
I am about 1735mm tall, I have spare height in the heads and aft cabin and I touch the ceiling in the forecabin, I do have 5mm of insulation stuck to the ceilings which most Sharki''s don't have. I might be able to measure next week.
Mark Porter
Sea Hobo 
Sharki 96
Cargreen UK
 
 
 
Sent from my Samsung device

 

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3a. 
Re: crappy job ahead of me....... santorin waste pipe 
From: Mike Ondra
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2020 22:00:33 AEST 

 

Hi Eric,

We have been wrestling with holding tank issues for years, latest these past few months. There are numerous posts (maybe 300) on these issues on the bulletin board going back over the past 15 years. Some of which may be relevant to you. Take the time to understand the holding tank configuration you have and evolve you plan of attack after reading the relevant postings. This is a repair you would prefer to make once and be permanent. Your hull number would be useful to others who may offer advice. 

I would suggest removing the deck plate and taking a look inside your tank to understand its internal condition before doing anything. I did this at night and hung a light inside so I could see well and took some pictures.

Mike Ondra

ALETES SM#240, Rock Hall, MD 

 

 

 

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3b. 
Re: crappy job ahead of me....... santorin waste pipe 
From: Craig & Katherine Briggs SN 68 Sangaris Tropic Isle Harbor, FL
Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2020 02:28:09 AEST 

 

[Edited Message Follows]

Hi Eric,
I don't believe Amel put holding tanks in SN's so, like ours, yours was likely done by a prior owner. (Just the forward was done when we got our boat - I later did a 2nd tank in the aft head.) From your question it sounds like your tank is behind the outboard panel with the openings for the storage shelf. If so, removal of the wall would depend on how whoever installed the tank did it in the first place.

On mine, it requires removal of the sink wood crossmembers for the towel rack, the medicine cabinet, plus some perimeter trim, then reaching inside the cubby openingings to remove a few screws. Not too difficult. The tank simply sits on one of the original shelves and the plumbing is readily accessible once the panel is off.  I redid mine with PVC which I'd highly recommend for a multi-decade no-odor fix. 

That being said, I recall several posts of other SN owners installing tanks in various other positions, like under the towel bars.  What's the configuration on your SN?

Craig
PS I forgot to mention the original panel was fiberglassed to the shelves, so that has to be cut open the first time the panel is removed. Upon replacing, use wood blocks and screws to fasten it. A FINE Multi-tool or equivalent will cut the fiberglass tabbing nicely.

 

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3c. 
Re: crappy job ahead of me....... santorin waste pipe 
From: david bruce
Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2020 03:27:56 AEST 

Hi Eric, 

 
 Sounds like you have a perfectly good system that just needs repair, so I’m not advocating this for you but just thought I would take this opportunity to share my experiences with a composting toilet. I do think Craig is right, in that our Santorin had no stock holding tanks. There is a small tank for the aft head located in the life raft locker and no tank forward in the forward head.  
 
 After converting a typically troublesome and odorous holding tank system on my Newport 41 a few years ago to a composting toilet and finding it works remarkably well and is infinitely preferable to a standard tank, I lugged an Airhead composting toilet to Greece last summer to install on Liesse.  I didn’t get around to it so it’s sitting in the lazarette at the moment waiting to be installed in the forward head but if not for a lack of headroom it could actually be used back there!   I have found the composting toilet to be odor free, easy to clean and maintain, and my only criticism is that when heeling it is difficult to keep urine from running around the little dam into the solids container.  It’s amazingly comforting to know the you will ALWAYS have a functional head!  We’re heading to Turkey when it’s possible and not sure how they will view the composting toilet in their blue card scheme...  Good luck w the repair.  
 
Dave Bruce
Liesse SN006
 

 

 

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4a. 
Re: sm 53 vs 54 
From: james Hosford
Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2020 01:30:49 AEST 

Thanks for your reply

 
 

 

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4b. 
Re: sm 53 vs 54 
From: Mohammad Shirloo
Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2020 02:49:48 AEST 

 

We had the read the same issues raised about Volvo in the 54, prior to our purchase. Upon further research and discussions with people who know the actual number of 54s that have had issues with their Volvo, it was our conclusion that statistically, the percentage of serious issues, were low. Also, we figured that in the worst case scenario, we could repower with a new engine and the advantages and extra comforts of the 54 were worth the potential risk.

 

In our 5 years of cruising, we have not had any issues, other than normal maintenance and the Volvo has been very reliable. When we started to search for a cruising boat and in the 4 year process that ended up in the selection of the 54, we would not have imagined selecting a boat that we would be as impressed with as we are today. She continues to show her talents more and more as we have more time on board.

 

As everyone has reiterated, most of these decisions are personal and very much dependent on importance of the differences in the designs.

 

Happy Sailing;

 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

AMEL 54 #099

 

 

 

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4c. 
Re: sm 53 vs 54 
From: james Hosford
Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2020 03:01:18 AEST 

Absolutely. And that was just the point of the question wanted to hear the opinions of owners and why they have those opinions.   Thank you so much,  this whole group is such a great value to those of us considering our purchase options and even greater value to current owners

 
 

 

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5a. 
Bamar EJF Furler 
From: amel46met
Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2020 04:42:55 AEST 

Hello Group 
Tom Deasy APHRODITE Maramu 1983 #125
I am having a problem with my electric furler, four years old and several thousand miles.It will unroll about 2 feet and stop it will not roll back up. Is it possible for me to disassemble to see the problem could it be the brushes or possibly corrosion with the paws or the electrical brake system any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks Tom Deasy

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Jamie Wendell
 

Well, I said I was not going to make any more comments on the A54 fridge pump issues until I get the BLDC (brushless motor) design working, but I have to make a new confirmation that seems to corroborate with many who have provided advice about the technical issues regarding the Danfoss and E51385 pump output voltages.

I said that I was always getting 24 volts at the pump output. I also said that I bypassed the 
E51385 in the sense that I now take power for my 12V pump from the 24V supply connection in the engine room (using a DC converter) and installed a simple relay to turn that power on and off. I just checked the voltage across my relay, which is driven directly from the E51385 pump output. It shows just about 12 volts, even across the very small coil resistance in the relay. So, while I still see 24 volts under no load at the E51385 pump output terminal, I see it is switching to 12 volts nominal under load. It is also clear that the pump I have draws too much power to be driven directly from the pump output terminals on the E51385.

I cannot explain that voltage drop. Why do I see 24 volts at all if the compressors are sending 12 volts to the 
E51385 internal relays? I wish I had an internal schematic for the E51385. Not sure what turns on the 24-volt indicator lamp on the E51385 - has to be coming from the compressor somehow.

Anyway, it appears my 
E51385 is OK, and Scott, Oliver, and I are marching forward with the brushless motor design.

Thanks to all again,
Jamie
Phantom, A54 #44


Dean Gillies
 

Jamie,
Great news, it seems to be operating as designed.

The 24V indicator led is lit up by the 24V power supply from the compressors. This shows that the system is operating from a 24V supply. It can also operate from 12V, in which case the 12V LED will be illuminated.

The drop from 24V to 12V of the pump supply under load is the expected operation. There are various circuit incarnations which could be inside the E51385, but it is not unusual to see this behaviour in a 24-12V conversion circuit.

I'm planning to write up a detailed description of the intended operation of the system as originally delivered and post it in the files.

Good luck with the brushless motor experiment.

Best regards
Dean
SY Stella

Sent from my iPhone X


Dean Gillies
 

Scott/Jamie,
I wonder if you could please do me a huge favour, and measure the voltages at pins 1 through 8 on the blue E51385 pump controller with the pump operating and also when the pump is not operating (you may have to temporarily turn up the temps on your fridges to make the compressors turn the pump off). So that's 16 DC voltage measurements in total, 8 with pump operating and 8 with pump not operating.

Fix the black multimeter probe on pin 9 (Negative) and measure the other 8 pins with the red probe.
(note pins are numbered Left to right on the blue box).

I need this data to confirm my understanding of the circuit operation.

many thanks
Dean Gillies
SY Stella


Porter McRoberts
 

Bill in your schematic,
The relays are 12VDC control and 24VDC load circuit, easy to put a 2-3 amp fuse on the load circuit.
I've searched for this relay and find it quite difficult to find the definitive solution.  Commonly the reverse is found.
I’d like to build a control board for the pumps.
Might you have a source, or nomenclature that would reveal this hidden gem on the web for me?

A second question:  running a 24v pump at 12v, surely spares the pump, but will it affect the pump volume, as the 1.5+ GPH is quite important, yes?

Always appreciated,

Porter
S/V IBIS A54-152

On Jul 3, 2020, at 3:30 PM, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:

Jamie,

I wish I was on your 54 with you because I have a burning question about all of this. and I have a recommendation for you.

My burning question:
If you see the schematic in my previous post in this thread, you will notice the schematic from a Frigoboat manual. The source of the voltage output from the E51385 blue box to the water pump originates in this schematic with each of the Danfoss Compressor Controllers at the F terminal. In fact, the two wires for each fridge unit come directly from the Danfoss to the E51385. The Frigoboat manual clearly states, regardless of the voltage of the fridge the output on the two F terminals is 12 volts. BTW, the Danfoss operates on 12 or 24 volts, but always outputs 12 volts to Terminal F. Have you checked the output voltage on each of the Danfoss on terminal F and the terminal next to it? I do not see any other way that the E51385 blue box can output 24 volts and if there is 24 volts on the Danfoss fan terminals, I suspect something is wrong with the Danfoss.

My recommendation:
Why don't you do this eliminating the E51385 and eliminate the limitation on amps on the Danfoss terminal F, and run a 24-volt pump??:
<Relays to control water pump.jpg>
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 2:02 PM Jamie Wendell <mysticshadow54@...> wrote:
OK, my "final" update on the Flojet pump and Frigoboat E51385  interface. I cannot explain it, but the interface is definitely out-putting 24 volts to the pump at all times.
Maybe my interface is malfunctioning, so I installed a solid-state relay and a DC converter to step the voltage down to 12 volts. I used a 24-volt relay in place of the E
51385 pump connection and then feed the converter and pump via the live 24-volt terminal box in the engine room. The relay simply engages the pump when the compressors call for it.

A bit more complicated than I would like but the pump runs perfectly now and obviously I no longer get the pump overload signals at the interface. The higher capacity pump may draw more power, but it really cools down the 3 refrigerator units fast.

My next task is to get the brushless motor working to replace the Flojet motor. I will drive it directly via the 24-volt terminal block and eliminate the DC converter.

Until then I am "over and out" regarding this perplexing issue with the E
51385. I really appreciate all the suggestions and assistance, but will report once I have the brushless motor controller operational. That will be the gold standard.

Jamie
Phantom, A54 #44