Topics

Onan does not start


Paul Osterberg
 
Edited

My Onan is totally dead nothing happened when trying to star not a slightest click. I have measured 12,8 volt between +on the starter and minus on the alternator, but only about 4 volt between + on the starter an - I believe it is on the starter see attached photo the same reading 4 v between plus on the starter and the ground strap.
I assume the reading should be 12,8 and not 4 volt?
Any idea where to start searching?
Paul on SY Kerpa SM 259, Lagos, Portugal sykerpa.com


 

You should check the negative and positive start solenoids and the wire connectors to these. 

Most of the time it is the negative solenoid. The second most common cause is the connection between where the start battery negative wire connects to the terminal on the outside left of the Onan and the connection to the negative solenoid. 

You can check both of these using a jumper cable between where the start battery negative terminal connects to the Onan and, first, to the battery-side of the solenoid. This will check the wire and connections. Next, then from the start battery negative connotation terminal on the Onan to the other side of the solenoid. That will check the wire, connections, and solenoid. Use CorrosionX on all connections.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse 
Amel Owners Yacht School
+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com 
Yacht School Calendar: www.preparetocastoff.blogspot.com/p/calendar.html


   


On Wed, Jun 3, 2020, 5:24 AM Paul Osterberg <osterberg.paul.l@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

My Onan is totally dead nothing happened when trying to star not a slightest click. I have measured 12,8 volt between +on the starter and minus on the alternator, but only about 4 volt between + on the starter an - I believe it is on the starter see attached photo the same reading 4 v between plus on the starter and the ground strap.
I assume the reading should be 12,8 and not 4 volt?
Any idea where to start searching?
Paul on SY Kerpa SM 259, Lagos, Portugal sykerpa.com


Barry Connor
 

Hi Paul,
I am not very good with electric parts but I had a similar problem.
No click from the starter but I did hear a whish noise from behind the control panel. I took them out and put them back in, when pressing down on one the Onan started.  I replaced both relays and all then started and worked.

Best

Barry and Penny
“SV Lady Penelope II”
Amel 54. #17
Sainte Anne anchorage Martinique 


On Jun 3, 2020, at 06:24, Paul Osterberg <osterberg.paul.l@...> wrote:



[Edited Message Follows]

My Onan is totally dead nothing happened when trying to star not a slightest click. I have measured 12,8 volt between +on the starter and minus on the alternator, but only about 4 volt between + on the starter an - I believe it is on the starter see attached photo the same reading 4 v between plus on the starter and the ground strap.
I assume the reading should be 12,8 and not 4 volt?
Any idea where to start searching?
Paul on SY Kerpa SM 259, Lagos, Portugal sykerpa.com
<31987.jpg>
<15911792987437836114348009491907.jpg>


Peter Forbes
 

Barry,

Can you send photo of where these relays are and what value are they?

Peter

Peter Forbes
Carango Amel 54 #035
La Rochelle
00447836 209730
07836 209730

On 3 Jun 2020, at 13:30, Barry Connor via groups.io <connor_barry@...> wrote:

Hi Paul,
I am not very good with electric parts but I had a similar problem.
No click from the starter but I did hear a whish noise from behind the control panel. I took them out and put them back in, when pressing down on one the Onan started.  I replaced both relays and all then started and worked.

Best

Barry and Penny
“SV Lady Penelope II”
Amel 54. #17
Sainte Anne anchorage Martinique 


On Jun 3, 2020, at 06:24, Paul Osterberg <osterberg.paul.l@...> wrote:



[Edited Message Follows]

My Onan is totally dead nothing happened when trying to star not a slightest click. I have measured 12,8 volt between +on the starter and minus on the alternator, but only about 4 volt between + on the starter an - I believe it is on the starter see attached photo the same reading 4 v between plus on the starter and the ground strap.
I assume the reading should be 12,8 and not 4 volt?
Any idea where to start searching?
Paul on SY Kerpa SM 259, Lagos, Portugal sykerpa.com
<31987.jpg>
<15911792987437836114348009491907.jpg>


John Clark
 

Hi Paul,
   I instinctively say it is the DC circuit breaker, the red switch on the Generator panel in the ER.  I see it looks to be on, try cycling it.  My switch can be bumped when doing work in the ER and look like it is still on.  

I am not 100% sure about the solenoid that connects the DC negative, if that also connects the generator control power to the neg terminal.  If so that could be the issue as well...in that scenario the solenoid would first close then allow everything else to fire up.   I'll be back on the boat this afternoon and can double check.

      John

Annie SM 37 
Water Island USVI





On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 6:18 AM Paul Osterberg <osterberg.paul.l@...> wrote:
My Onan is totally dead nothing happened when trying to star not a slightest click. I have measured 12,8 volt between +on the starter and minus on the alternator, but only about 4 volt between + on the starter an - I believe it is on the starter see attached photo the same reading 4 v between plus on the starter and the ground strap.
I assume the reading should be 12,8 and not 4 volt?
Any idea where to start searching?
Paul on SY Kerpa SM 259, Lagos, Portugal sykerpa.com 


Teun BAAS
 

Paul,

 

On my A54 I had Onan starting problems April 2019 in VANUATU. Almost like it was on a dying battery; when running the main for a couple of minutes the Onan would start. After several days that didn’t work either. The French marine electrician in PORT VILA diagnosed the negative solenoid being the problem. No solenoid available in VANUATU but he happened to go that weekend to NOUMEA NEW CALEDONIA; he hard wired the negative while he got the new solenoid. He did mention that he didn’t understand why the Onan had a negative solenoid anyhow; I was adamant to keep the system the way it was since AMEL has a special bonding system: he also checked with an electrician friend in FRANCE who was very familiar with AMEL boats. Installed new negative solenoid and all was well until 4 months later it went out again when I came back from THE BANKS. Luckily this happened to be in PORT VILA so I was able to use the same electrician. He removed the negative solenoid completely – hard wired and since no more problems.

 

So the problem for me was the negative solenoid at the back of the Onan.

 

BTW – all batteries as well as connections were checked (house and engine) and were in perfect condition. Old negative solenoid was corroded though as my SPECTRA NEWPORT II pre-filters are right in that area and hard to change w/o spilling raw water. Even extensive flushing with fresh apparently doesn’t help – unless the corrosion already set in before I got the boat.

 

Best Regards Teun

SV AMELIT  A54  #128

 

On the hard in COOMERA (near BRISBANE) QLD AUSTRALIA

June 3, 2020 08:35:16

 

USA cell: +1 832 477 8842

AUSTRALIA cell: +61 5951 8909

 

You can follow AMELIT via this link: https://forecast.predictwind.com/tracking/display/AMELIT

 

 

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Paul Osterberg via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, June 3, 2020 03:19
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Onan does not start

 

My Onan is totally dead nothing happened when trying to star not a slightest click. I have measured 12,8 volt between +on the starter and minus on the alternator, but only about 4 volt between + on the starter an - I believe it is on the starter see attached photo the same reading 4 v between plus on the starter and the ground strap.
I assume the reading should be 12,8 and not 4 volt?
Any idea where to start searching?
Paul on SY Kerpa SM 259, Lagos, Portugal sykerpa.com 


Paul Osterberg
 

Thank you all
Tomorrow I will go down to Kerpa and try to identify the negative selenoid, I had a negative selenoid on an VP on one of my previous boats that malfunction time to time, but it had a knob one could press in and force contact that way, Do not know if the Onan has that.
Paul
SY Kerpa SM#259


Porter McRoberts
 

Teun and Paul. 
Exact scenario. Same fix. Thanks BR. 
Porter A54-152. 

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 
Www.fouribis.net

On Jun 3, 2020, at 12:41 PM, Paul Osterberg <osterberg.paul.l@...> wrote:

Thank you all
Tomorrow I will go down to Kerpa and try to identify the negative selenoid, I had a negative selenoid on an VP on one of my previous boats that malfunction time to time, but it had a knob one could press in and force contact that way, Do not know if the Onan has that.
Paul
SY Kerpa SM#259


Teun BAAS
 

Paul,

 

We did not identify a knob or similar to press on the solenoid etc. etc. We just removed the negative solenoid.

 

If I understand Porter correctly he also is now sailing/using genset without a negative solenoid. I was going to have this looked at by a marine electrician in COOMERA but can I just omit that and continue without a negative solenoid?

 

Best Regards Teun

SV AMELIT  A54  #128

 

On the hard in COOMERA (near BRISBANE) QLD AUSTRALIA

June 3, 2020 10:27:01

 

USA cell: +1 832 477 8842

AUSTRALIA cell: +61 5951 8909

 

You can follow AMELIT via this link: https://forecast.predictwind.com/tracking/display/AMELIT

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Porter McRoberts via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, June 3, 2020 10:10
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Onan does not start

 

Teun and Paul. 

Exact scenario. Same fix. Thanks BR. 

Porter A54-152. 

Excuse the errors.  

Sent from my IPhone 



On Jun 3, 2020, at 12:41 PM, Paul Osterberg <osterberg.paul.l@...> wrote:

Thank you all
Tomorrow I will go down to Kerpa and try to identify the negative selenoid, I had a negative selenoid on an VP on one of my previous boats that malfunction time to time, but it had a knob one could press in and force contact that way, Do not know if the Onan has that.
Paul
SY Kerpa SM#259


Courtney Gorman
 

Mine was also removed in St Thomas same symptoms now has run perfect for 18 months
Cheers
Courtney
Trippin
54 #101


-----Original Message-----
From: Teun BAAS <teun@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Jun 3, 2020 1:27 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Onan does not start

Paul,
 
We did not identify a knob or similar to press on the solenoid etc. etc. We just removed the negative solenoid.
 
If I understand Porter correctly he also is now sailing/using genset without a negative solenoid. I was going to have this looked at by a marine electrician in COOMERA but can I just omit that and continue without a negative solenoid?
 
Best Regards Teun
SV AMELIT  A54  #128
 
On the hard in COOMERA (near BRISBANE) QLD AUSTRALIA
June 3, 2020 10:27:01
 
USA cell: +1 832 477 8842
AUSTRALIA cell: +61 5951 8909
 
 
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Porter McRoberts via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, June 3, 2020 10:10
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Onan does not start
 
Teun and Paul. 
Exact scenario. Same fix. Thanks BR. 
Porter A54-152. 
Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 


On Jun 3, 2020, at 12:41 PM, Paul Osterberg <osterberg.paul.l@...> wrote:
Thank you all
Tomorrow I will go down to Kerpa and try to identify the negative selenoid, I had a negative selenoid on an VP on one of my previous boats that malfunction time to time, but it had a knob one could press in and force contact that way, Do not know if the Onan has that.
Paul
SY Kerpa SM#259


Sv Garulfo
 

Paul,

Check the DC circuit breaker above the red emergency switch. If i remember correctly, yours looks to be in the off position. I may be wrong and I’m not on the boat to check, but it happened to me twice to inadvertently knock it off while in the ER.



Best,

Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Tahuata 



On Wed, 3 Jun 2020 at 05:46, John Clark <john.biohead@...> wrote:
Hi Paul,
   I instinctively say it is the DC circuit breaker, the red switch on the Generator panel in the ER.  I see it looks to be on, try cycling it.  My switch can be bumped when doing work in the ER and look like it is still on.  

I am not 100% sure about the solenoid that connects the DC negative, if that also connects the generator control power to the neg terminal.  If so that could be the issue as well...in that scenario the solenoid would first close then allow everything else to fire up.   I'll be back on the boat this afternoon and can double check.

      John

Annie SM 37 
Water Island USVI





On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 6:18 AM Paul Osterberg <osterberg.paul.l@...> wrote:
My Onan is totally dead nothing happened when trying to star not a slightest click. I have measured 12,8 volt between +on the starter and minus on the alternator, but only about 4 volt between + on the starter an - I believe it is on the starter see attached photo the same reading 4 v between plus on the starter and the ground strap.
I assume the reading should be 12,8 and not 4 volt?
Any idea where to start searching?
Paul on SY Kerpa SM 259, Lagos, Portugal sykerpa.com 


Paul Osterberg
 

Thomas, Thank you
I have switched it several times to be on the safe side as well as the other breakers.
Paul SY Kerpa SM#259


karkauai
 

If you are talking about the solenoid between battery negative and the Onan engine block, that is there to isolate the Onan from battery negative EXCEPT when glo-plugs, Start, and Stop solenoids are used. The rest of the time the solenoid is open and there is no connection to battery negative. Eliminating that solenoid defeats the floating ground bonding system in Amels and puts your under water metals at greater risk.  I strongly recommend against that. I had a prop shaft get destroyed by a faulty charger/inverter combined with a connection made by an ABYC electrician who didn't understand what Amel did. The CDrive had to be replaced to the tune of $30000US and loss of almost a year.

If you are talking about the start solenoid, I'm not sure how you would eliminate that and still have the starter function.

Bill, Olivier?????

Kent
SM 243
KRISTY
.

On Jun 3, 2020 1:27 PM, Teun BAAS <teun@...> wrote:

Paul,

 

We did not identify a knob or similar to press on the solenoid etc. etc. We just removed the negative solenoid.

 

If I understand Porter correctly he also is now sailing/using genset without a negative solenoid. I was going to have this looked at by a marine electrician in COOMERA but can I just omit that and continue without a negative solenoid?

 

Best Regards Teun

SV AMELIT  A54  #128

 

On the hard in COOMERA (near BRISBANE) QLD AUSTRALIA

June 3, 2020 10:27:01

 

USA cell: +1 832 477 8842

AUSTRALIA cell: +61 5951 8909

 

You can follow AMELIT via this link: https://forecast.predictwind.com/tracking/display/AMELIT

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Porter McRoberts via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, June 3, 2020 10:10
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Onan does not start

 

Teun and Paul. 

Exact scenario. Same fix. Thanks BR. 

Porter A54-152. 

Excuse the errors.  

Sent from my IPhone 



On Jun 3, 2020, at 12:41 PM, Paul Osterberg <osterberg.paul.l@...> wrote:

Thank you all
Tomorrow I will go down to Kerpa and try to identify the negative selenoid, I had a negative selenoid on an VP on one of my previous boats that malfunction time to time, but it had a knob one could press in and force contact that way, Do not know if the Onan has that.
Paul
SY Kerpa SM#259



 

Kent,

Correct,

Jumping or eliminating a faulty negative start solenoid on the Onan should be used only as a temporary repair or test. The solenoid should be replaced.

Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 6:15 PM karkauai via groups.io <karkauai=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
If you are talking about the solenoid between battery negative and the Onan engine block, that is there to isolate the Onan from battery negative EXCEPT when glo-plugs, Start, and Stop solenoids are used. The rest of the time the solenoid is open and there is no connection to battery negative. Eliminating that solenoid defeats the floating ground bonding system in Amels and puts your under water metals at greater risk.  I strongly recommend against that. I had a prop shaft get destroyed by a faulty charger/inverter combined with a connection made by an ABYC electrician who didn't understand what Amel did. The CDrive had to be replaced to the tune of $30000US and loss of almost a year.

If you are talking about the start solenoid, I'm not sure how you would eliminate that and still have the starter function.

Bill, Olivier?????

Kent
SM 243
KRISTY
.

On Jun 3, 2020 1:27 PM, Teun BAAS <teun@...> wrote:

Paul,

 

We did not identify a knob or similar to press on the solenoid etc. etc. We just removed the negative solenoid.

 

If I understand Porter correctly he also is now sailing/using genset without a negative solenoid. I was going to have this looked at by a marine electrician in COOMERA but can I just omit that and continue without a negative solenoid?

 

Best Regards Teun

SV AMELIT  A54  #128

 

On the hard in COOMERA (near BRISBANE) QLD AUSTRALIA

June 3, 2020 10:27:01

 

USA cell: +1 832 477 8842

AUSTRALIA cell: +61 5951 8909

 

You can follow AMELIT via this link: https://forecast.predictwind.com/tracking/display/AMELIT

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Porter McRoberts via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, June 3, 2020 10:10
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Onan does not start

 

Teun and Paul. 

Exact scenario. Same fix. Thanks BR. 

Porter A54-152. 

Excuse the errors.  

Sent from my IPhone 



On Jun 3, 2020, at 12:41 PM, Paul Osterberg <osterberg.paul.l@...> wrote:

Thank you all
Tomorrow I will go down to Kerpa and try to identify the negative selenoid, I had a negative selenoid on an VP on one of my previous boats that malfunction time to time, but it had a knob one could press in and force contact that way, Do not know if the Onan has that.
Paul
SY Kerpa SM#259



Paul Osterberg
 

Thank you all for your help 
It was the negative selenoid, now bypassed and the Onan is spinning again. Just need to find replacement and a spare to carry 
Paul on sykerpa SM 259


 

Paul, et al

Replacing the Negative Solenoid will sometimes only be a temporary fix. When the issue is either the actual wire from the Input Negative Post on the side of the Onan to the Negative Solenoid, of the connections of that wire, replacing the solenoid with a new one will temporarily solve the problem. But when the contact points in that solenoid become slightly used, the total resistance of the Negative circuit to the starter increases and you experience slow-starting or non-starting, again. It is time to permanently solve this issue.

I am convinced that the Onan internal wiring (Positive & Negative) from the Start Battery Input Connection Posts is insufficient and should be replaced with larger wire. See below and see attached pages from my Amel Book.

image.png
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 8:48 AM Paul Osterberg <osterberg.paul.l@...> wrote:
Thank you all for your help 
It was the negative selenoid, now bypassed and the Onan is spinning again. Just need to find replacement and a spare to carry 
Paul on sykerpa SM 259