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Possible damage from transport ships stacks. Has anyone experienced?


Porter McRoberts
 

Ladies and Gents.

A quick question if you would. We’re in the midst of shipping our Amel out of NZ with Sevenstar. Incidentally the delivery skipper encountered the marina manager who relayed multiple horror stories of transport ship’s smokestack ash and embers causing severe burns to sails, canvas sailboat decks etc. Needless to say I was taken aback. This was never discussed in our pregame !!!
Has anyone else encountered such issues?

I’d really appreciate any input.

Many thanks.

Porter

A54-152.




Excuse the errors.
Sent from my IPhone
Www.fouribis.net


Thomas Kleman
 

This is second hand so take it for what it's worth. My wife and I encountered an Amel owner in the Carib 7-8 years ago who had shipped their boat and suffered tremendous damage from smokestack ash throughout the entire boat (inside and out). It had been unfortunately positioned downwind of the ship's exhaust for 3 weeks. The boat was permeated with soot....they claimed even inside the compass (which I find not believable) but they were knee deep in litigation. Sorry for painting this image for you.

Tom and Kirstin
SM2K 422
Kauia


Brian Mitchell
 

We have shipped many yachts around the World, superyachts and our own Amel. We have experience with top loading and float on/float off shipping.
No matter what, cover and protect everything you can, the exhaust soot does stain the boats, so too the rust fragments from the exhaust stacks. Rust stains will be all over the gel coat.
The ships are old, have done thousands of hours at sea, they are cargo ships and thus are not spotless and or clean running.
The special shrink wrap plastic we use on all the transported yachts does leave a residue and you will need to have your yacht detailed and or very well cleaned at the destination, but it saves on the damage to the gel coat. If your bimini is in good condition you should cover and protect it or remove it and cover the cockpit. Even remove your sails and pack them in the lazarette or inside the yacht, to be sure they are as safe as they can be.
Vacuuming down your possessions inside the yacht is also recommended. We always covered the carpets however, I have not personally experienced any interior damage, just a heap of exterior mess to clean up upon delivery to the final destination.
The shipping company are never forthcoming on telling you about the exhaust issues, unless you actually ask them. 
On the Super Servant the deck crew wash down all the boats each and everyday, but they are shipping superyachts, sportsfishers and sailing boats and still you do get a dirty yacht at the end of the voyage. 
Trust this helps, none of the above is second hand, as stated, we have a lot of experience with shipping yachts!!
Good luck.
Brian & Sue (Australia)


Sue Mitchell
S Y Lola
+61 481 719770



On Jul 14, 2020, at 14:13, Thomas Kleman <lorient422@...> wrote:

This is second hand so take it for what it's worth. My wife and I encountered an Amel owner in the Carib 7-8 years ago who had shipped their boat and suffered tremendous damage from smokestack ash throughout the entire boat (inside and out). It had been unfortunately positioned downwind of the ship's exhaust for 3 weeks. The boat was permeated with soot....they claimed even inside the compass (which I find not believable) but they were knee deep in litigation. Sorry for painting this image for you.

Tom and Kirstin
SM2K 422
Kauia


 

I have only one experience shipping and that was through Pirate Alley and up the Red Sea. There was no ash on any of the 18 yachts on the deck of a BBC ship (German company) that had been chartered by SevenStar. I am amazed that the story you quoted included ash and smoke debris inside the yacht because the yachts are not left open. I think this marina manager has retold this story multiple times exaggerating what he is told, and maybe he has a "friend" that is a delivery captain.

First, let's logically examine this: The stack is at the aft of all transport ships that I have seen and it is some unusual conditions that the wind will blow from the aft forward and down to the deck while the ship is cruising at 22kts. 

Secondly, a fact: The exhaust of transport ships is checked and analyzed in many ports in the world looking to collect a fine for excess carbon at a micron level. The only ships that risk this huge fine are certainly not the ships used by any legitimate operator. 

Thirdly, and for what it is worth, personal experience: I have spent many days and hours on the decks of cruise ships that have their stack(s) forward of the stern. The only time I ever experienced any similar situation was at a dock in Mexico where a Carnival Cruise ship was burning what smelled like garbage while tied to the dock. I saw the smoke and smelled it, but no ash.

Fourth, if something like the marina manager described were to happen, SevenStar provides you with an insurance policy.

Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 11:32 PM Brian Mitchell <sue@...> wrote:
We have shipped many yachts around the World, superyachts and our own Amel. We have experience with top loading and float on/float off shipping.
No matter what, cover and protect everything you can, the exhaust soot does stain the boats, so too the rust fragments from the exhaust stacks. Rust stains will be all over the gel coat.
The ships are old, have done thousands of hours at sea, they are cargo ships and thus are not spotless and or clean running.
The special shrink wrap plastic we use on all the transported yachts does leave a residue and you will need to have your yacht detailed and or very well cleaned at the destination, but it saves on the damage to the gel coat. If your bimini is in good condition you should cover and protect it or remove it and cover the cockpit. Even remove your sails and pack them in the lazarette or inside the yacht, to be sure they are as safe as they can be.
Vacuuming down your possessions inside the yacht is also recommended. We always covered the carpets however, I have not personally experienced any interior damage, just a heap of exterior mess to clean up upon delivery to the final destination.
The shipping company are never forthcoming on telling you about the exhaust issues, unless you actually ask them. 
On the Super Servant the deck crew wash down all the boats each and everyday, but they are shipping superyachts, sportsfishers and sailing boats and still you do get a dirty yacht at the end of the voyage. 
Trust this helps, none of the above is second hand, as stated, we have a lot of experience with shipping yachts!!
Good luck.
Brian & Sue (Australia)


Sue Mitchell
S Y Lola
+61 481 719770



On Jul 14, 2020, at 14:13, Thomas Kleman <lorient422@...> wrote:

This is second hand so take it for what it's worth. My wife and I encountered an Amel owner in the Carib 7-8 years ago who had shipped their boat and suffered tremendous damage from smokestack ash throughout the entire boat (inside and out). It had been unfortunately positioned downwind of the ship's exhaust for 3 weeks. The boat was permeated with soot....they claimed even inside the compass (which I find not believable) but they were knee deep in litigation. Sorry for painting this image for you.

Tom and Kirstin
SM2K 422
Kauia


Craig Briggs
 

Hi Porter,
Here is Tip #6 of "How to Prepare Your Boat for Transport" from the Speitloff / DYT website: 

"Tip #6:
 Protect the outside of your yacht form (sic) soot, salt, etc. with shrink wrap. If your vessel is too large to cover completely, just stick to the most vulnerable areas such as teak and non-skid surfaces. Also cover all stainless steel and chrome fittings or apply an insulator wax to this exposed metal. If possible, remove and store the windshields."

They then add the sentence: "If you’re transporting a sailing yacht: Remove sails or protect them with covers..."

We shipped ours from Genoa to Palm Beach with just the sails off and canvas removed. 
After pulling up to the freighter for loading in Genoa, we stayed on our boat for the crane lift (exciting!), then got off onto the freighter's cargo deck. We stayed for a couple of hours to button up our boat and spoke at length with the Captain, taking a look around the ship as we had contemplated taking a cabin for the crossing, which in hindsight would have been fun. Yes, every outside surface of the ship is really dirty but the exhaust is as Bill Rouse describes and not belching fiery ash. 

Upon arrival in Palm Beach we did have a few globs of heavy grease from the cranes but the boat was pretty clean. I recall only a few of the boats being shipped had shrink-wrap - mostly the power yachts.

That our boat was clean may have been partly due to being washed off by severe thunderstorms they had on reaching Florida. Good news / bad news:  the boat was clean but we had $100,000 of lightning damage from the EMF of a nearby hit (not direct). The transport insurance covered it but fully depreciates all equipment because you are no longer a "yacht", with "new-for-old" coverage, you are "marine cargo" with a "no betterment" depreciation clause. 

Thus, for example, all electronics, autopilot, radar, etc. were depreciated to $0.00 because they were the original Amel installed 1992 equipment, the damage was in 2015 and electronics are on a 10 year depreciation schedule. We still came out well compensated as they do cover estimated repair labor and I do all my own work. (The estimates were from Palm Beach Yacht Repair contractor$.) 

Caveat Emptor - They do not tell you about the depreciation when you sign up! (It may be buried in the fine print.)  We happened to transit with another sailboat (similar damage - some 13 boats were hit). That boat's owner was an insurance lawyer - she verified that was indeed the case, as, like us, she had assumed the transit insurance would be the same as her yacht policy and she was not versed in the nuances of marine cargo insurance. Btw, the carrier for Speitloff/DYT is Pantaenius, who also had our regular yacht insurance. Our claim was handled very well, notwithstanding the surprise depreciation clause.

Good luck with your transit.
Craig


Dennis Johns
 

We shipped Libertad from Thailand to Turkey using Sevenstar and from Panama to Ensenada using United Yacht Transport.  In both cases we were advised to remove all sails and canvas which we did.  When the boat arrived they were indeed filthy from a combination of soot and misc soils but there was no damage because of the soils.

Dennis Johns
Libertad
Maramu 121

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 9:03 PM Porter McRoberts via groups.io <portermcroberts=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Ladies and Gents.

A quick question if you would. We’re in the midst of shipping our Amel out of NZ with Sevenstar.   Incidentally the delivery skipper encountered the marina manager who relayed multiple horror stories of transport ship’s smokestack ash and embers causing severe burns to sails, canvas sailboat decks etc. Needless to say I was taken aback. This was never discussed in our pregame !!! 
Has anyone else encountered such issues? 

I’d really appreciate any input.

Many thanks.

Porter

A54-152.




Excuse the errors. 
Sent from my IPhone
Www.fouribis.net




heinz@quetzal.berlin
 

Hallo Porter 
Are you still in New Zealand? Wehre are you shipping to? Can you contact me heinz @quetzal.berlin. Maybe I will do the same.iff they do not open the borders. 
Cheers HEINZ
Sm2000, 292 in waiting positions in berlin.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen 
Heinz Stutenbāumer
Dachdeckermeister


Am 14.07.2020 um 19:09 schrieb Dennis Johns <sbmesasailor@...>:


We shipped Libertad from Thailand to Turkey using Sevenstar and from Panama to Ensenada using United Yacht Transport.  In both cases we were advised to remove all sails and canvas which we did.  When the boat arrived they were indeed filthy from a combination of soot and misc soils but there was no damage because of the soils.

Dennis Johns
Libertad
Maramu 121

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 9:03 PM Porter McRoberts via groups.io <portermcroberts=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Ladies and Gents.

A quick question if you would. We’re in the midst of shipping our Amel out of NZ with Sevenstar.   Incidentally the delivery skipper encountered the marina manager who relayed multiple horror stories of transport ship’s smokestack ash and embers causing severe burns to sails, canvas sailboat decks etc. Needless to say I was taken aback. This was never discussed in our pregame !!! 
Has anyone else encountered such issues? 

I’d really appreciate any input.

Many thanks.

Porter

A54-152.




Excuse the errors. 
Sent from my IPhone
Www.fouribis.net




--
Hello 
Since yesterday when I tried to park in a box in a marina in Auckland my bow thruster motor failed. 
If I turn the beam to the left or right the whole power supply breaks down for a moment. After that the power is back. 
I took the rudder off and it can be turned perfectly by hand. 
But the same happens with the engine. No power for a few seconds, all instruments off, no rotation of the motor. 
Does anyone know this problem. 
Does anyone know how I can find out if it's the motor or maybe a relay that doesn't work. 
Can I test the motor without a relay, maybe on the 4 cables marked D1, D2, and A1, A2?
I am grateful for a quick answer.
Heinz SY Quetzal, SM 2000, 292


Porter McRoberts
 

Yes Heinz. 
We’re using Sevenstar yacht transport. 
So far so good. 
Best of luck. 
Porter A54-152

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 
Www.fouribis.net

On Jul 15, 2020, at 11:32 AM, "heinz@..." <heinz@...> wrote:

Hallo Porter 
Are you still in New Zealand? Wehre are you shipping to? Can you contact me heinz @quetzal.berlin. Maybe I will do the same.iff they do not open the borders. 
Cheers HEINZ
Sm2000, 292 in waiting positions in berlin.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen 
Heinz Stutenbāumer
Dachdeckermeister


Am 14.07.2020 um 19:09 schrieb Dennis Johns <sbmesasailor@...>:


We shipped Libertad from Thailand to Turkey using Sevenstar and from Panama to Ensenada using United Yacht Transport.  In both cases we were advised to remove all sails and canvas which we did.  When the boat arrived they were indeed filthy from a combination of soot and misc soils but there was no damage because of the soils.

Dennis Johns
Libertad
Maramu 121

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 9:03 PM Porter McRoberts via groups.io <portermcroberts=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Ladies and Gents.

A quick question if you would. We’re in the midst of shipping our Amel out of NZ with Sevenstar.   Incidentally the delivery skipper encountered the marina manager who relayed multiple horror stories of transport ship’s smokestack ash and embers causing severe burns to sails, canvas sailboat decks etc. Needless to say I was taken aback. This was never discussed in our pregame !!! 
Has anyone else encountered such issues? 

I’d really appreciate any input.

Many thanks.

Porter

A54-152.




Excuse the errors. 
Sent from my IPhone
Www.fouribis.net




--
Hello 
Since yesterday when I tried to park in a box in a marina in Auckland my bow thruster motor failed. 
If I turn the beam to the left or right the whole power supply breaks down for a moment. After that the power is back. 
I took the rudder off and it can be turned perfectly by hand. 
But the same happens with the engine. No power for a few seconds, all instruments off, no rotation of the motor. 
Does anyone know this problem. 
Does anyone know how I can find out if it's the motor or maybe a relay that doesn't work. 
Can I test the motor without a relay, maybe on the 4 cables marked D1, D2, and A1, A2?
I am grateful for a quick answer.
Heinz SY Quetzal, SM 2000, 292


Doug Smith
 

Porter,
We just unloaded from a transatlantic shipment, Palma to Ft Lauderdale, and left the main and mizzen in place. All other canvas removed, and no real issues besides the salt, and general dust from sitting on a transport ship. And of course the recent Saharan dust storm that crossed the atlantic with it. And of course the locusts and plague...2020...

Doug Smith
S/V Aventura, Amel 54-113
Deltaville, VA USA

On 7/14/20, 12:03 AM, "Porter McRoberts via groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io on behalf of portermcroberts=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Ladies and Gents.

A quick question if you would. We’re in the midst of shipping our Amel out of NZ with Sevenstar. Incidentally the delivery skipper encountered the marina manager who relayed multiple horror stories of transport ship’s smokestack ash and embers causing severe burns to sails, canvas sailboat decks etc. Needless to say I was taken aback. This was never discussed in our pregame !!!
Has anyone else encountered such issues?

I’d really appreciate any input.

Many thanks.

Porter

A54-152.




Excuse the errors.
Sent from my IPhone
Www.fouribis.net


Porter McRoberts
 

Thank you for all the comments and suggestions. Our Ibis is prepared for the worst despite multiple attempts to allay concern. Better safe than sorry! I’ll relay our success or failures.

Loading today. Fingers crossed.

Porter
A54-152


Excuse the errors.
Sent from my IPhone
Www.fouribis.net

On Jul 19, 2020, at 1:16 PM, Doug Smith via groups.io <dugsmith98=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Porter,
We just unloaded from a transatlantic shipment, Palma to Ft Lauderdale, and left the main and mizzen in place. All other canvas removed, and no real issues besides the salt, and general dust from sitting on a transport ship. And of course the recent Saharan dust storm that crossed the atlantic with it. And of course the locusts and plague...2020...

Doug Smith
S/V Aventura, Amel 54-113
Deltaville, VA USA

On 7/14/20, 12:03 AM, "Porter McRoberts via groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io on behalf of portermcroberts=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Ladies and Gents.

A quick question if you would. We’re in the midst of shipping our Amel out of NZ with Sevenstar. Incidentally the delivery skipper encountered the marina manager who relayed multiple horror stories of transport ship’s smokestack ash and embers causing severe burns to sails, canvas sailboat decks etc. Needless to say I was taken aback. This was never discussed in our pregame !!!
Has anyone else encountered such issues?

I’d really appreciate any input.

Many thanks.

Porter

A54-152.




Excuse the errors.
Sent from my IPhone
Www.fouribis.net









Ken Powers SV Aquarius
 

Heinz,
Your batteries might not be able to handle the current draw of the Bow Thruster.  Take a look at the current draw during Bow Thruster use, and also look at the voltage while using the bow thruster....  Try charging your batteries completely, turn on the Genset, and your charger...  Then try the Bow Thruster again.  If it works, your problem is found..
Ken
SM2K#262
Aquarius


On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 03:32 AM, heinz@... wrote:
Hello 
Since yesterday when I tried to park in a box in a marina in Auckland my bow thruster motor failed. 
If I turn the beam to the left or right the whole power supply breaks down for a moment. After that the power is back. 
I took the rudder off and it can be turned perfectly by hand. 
But the same happens with the engine. No power for a few seconds, all instruments off, no rotation of the motor. 
Does anyone know this problem. 
Does anyone know how I can find out if it's the motor or maybe a relay that doesn't work. 
Can I test the motor without a relay, maybe on the 4 cables marked D1, D2, and A1, A2?
I am grateful for a quick answer.
Heinz SY Quetzal, SM 2000, 292