Raising the waterline on an Amel that lists to one side?


Scott SV Tengah
 
Edited

After nearly 5 years of scrubbing growth off our gelcoat in beautiful tropical locations, we've given up and decided to raise the waterline.

As with many Amels, we are a bit stern heavy, accentuated by the fact that we have a beefy solar arch and Simpson davits, which often hold our 100kg dinghy+motor combination at night on anchor. 

However, we are also suffering the "lithium list" as a result of losing nearly 300kg from our battery bank, located under the starboard side passage berth. This, combined with the heavier 11kw "comfort package" Onan on port, means that our previous 0.5 degree list has now increased to 1.5 degrees to port. 

Anyone repaint their waterline with a list like this? How did you manage it? The boatyard here in NZ believes if we have unequal height painted waterlines on port-stb, it will look terrible. As such, they want to have 8cm of bottom paint showing at the highest point (starboard bow) and then carry that laser aimed line through both sides to the stern. That would mean there is more bottom paint showing on starboard side, but at least port side won't have gelcoat underwater.

I have virtually no artistic sense, but I was considering a painted waterline that was higher on port, where the boat is heavier, but the painter believes, probably rightfully so, that theres's no good way to have the uneven height lines meet at the bow/stern.

Part of me is considering just ditching our Onan because we've used it a grand total of 8 hours in the last 12 months, despite being mostly off-grid!

Any thoughts or experiences that could help guide me? Thanks!

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Michael Winand
 

We have raised the boot stripe on Nebo, we have a list as per normal. I went with 3 inches of antifoul showing,  the raising started at the forward lowers. 
We then went with a lithium battery bank. So a little extra list. 

All in All,  you can't tell the difference between the two sides.
 You really have to look for the different gaps in the antifoul showing.  It is more noticeable when you haul out and see the water mark around the hull 

Michael Nebo sm251 

On Sat, 3 Dec 2022, 7:55 am Scott SV Tengah, <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]
[Reason: mistake]

After nearly 5 years of scrubbing growth off our gelcoat in beautiful tropical locations, we've given up and decided to raise the waterline.

As with many Amels, we are a bit stern heavy, accentuated by the fact that we have a beefy solar arch and Simpson davits, which often hold our 100kg dinghy+motor combination at night on anchor. 

However, we are also suffering the "lithium list" as a result of losing nearly 300kg from our battery bank, located under the starboard side passage berth. This, combined with the heavier 11kw "comfort package" Onan on port, means that our previous 0.5 degree list has now increased to 1.5 degrees to port. 

Anyone repaint their waterline with a list like this? How did you manage it? The boatyard here in NZ believes if we have unequal height painted waterlines on port-stb, it will look terrible. As such, they want to have 8cm of bottom paint showing at the highest point (starboard bow) and then carry that laser aimed line through both sides to the stern. That would mean there is more bottom paint showing on starboard side, but at least port side won't have gelcoat underwater.

I have virtually no artistic sense, but I was considering a painted waterline that was higher on port, where the boat is heavier, but the painter believes, probably rightfully so, that theres's no good way to have the uneven height lines meet at the bow/stern.

Part of me is considering just ditching our Onan because we've used it a grand total of 8 hours in the last 12 months, despite being mostly off-grid!

Any thoughts or experiences that could help guide me? Thanks!

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Ruslan Osmonov
 

Hi Scott, my 2c. Why not raise it to one of red stripes? 
If you try to make the waterline even, then later If the boat is balanced again, the water line will become crooked. To me uneven bottom paint is not a problem, uneven gelcoat height is a huge and rubbing stick into my eye.
I think you also want to preserve AMELs higher bow waterline. A lot of people buy into AMEL philosophy and dont always like deviating from it. If you use stripes and raise it up to them all around, I think it will work.         

On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 3:55 PM Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]
[Reason: mistake]

After nearly 5 years of scrubbing growth off our gelcoat in beautiful tropical locations, we've given up and decided to raise the waterline.

As with many Amels, we are a bit stern heavy, accentuated by the fact that we have a beefy solar arch and Simpson davits, which often hold our 100kg dinghy+motor combination at night on anchor. 

However, we are also suffering the "lithium list" as a result of losing nearly 300kg from our battery bank, located under the starboard side passage berth. This, combined with the heavier 11kw "comfort package" Onan on port, means that our previous 0.5 degree list has now increased to 1.5 degrees to port. 

Anyone repaint their waterline with a list like this? How did you manage it? The boatyard here in NZ believes if we have unequal height painted waterlines on port-stb, it will look terrible. As such, they want to have 8cm of bottom paint showing at the highest point (starboard bow) and then carry that laser aimed line through both sides to the stern. That would mean there is more bottom paint showing on starboard side, but at least port side won't have gelcoat underwater.

I have virtually no artistic sense, but I was considering a painted waterline that was higher on port, where the boat is heavier, but the painter believes, probably rightfully so, that theres's no good way to have the uneven height lines meet at the bow/stern.

Part of me is considering just ditching our Onan because we've used it a grand total of 8 hours in the last 12 months, despite being mostly off-grid!

Any thoughts or experiences that could help guide me? Thanks!

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


--
Fair winds
Ruslan Osmonov
Phantom, A54 #44


Ian Park
 

We were fed up with the growth under the stern and the ‘skirt’ of weed on the boot stripe. We re Coppercoated this winter and had it taken up to the cover the whole red boot stripe. It has worked a treat this season and looks fine without any boot stripe. No skirt and no scraping the stern mid season.

Ian and Linda

Ocean Hobo
SN96


ianjenkins1946 <ianjudyjenkins@hotmail.com>
 

Hi Scott,

In common with many SM owners we found ourselves having to clean the aft waterline too often. After studying a variety of waterlines on different yachts we took the plunge when we put Coppercoat on in 2009 and we raised the Coppercoat to the top of the bootstripe. We added a fresh bootstripe above that.

We no longer have to clean the waterline.  If you look closely, the hull now looks sleeker, but in practice no one  notices the change. In 13 years it has yet to be noticed by any other SM owner.

Maybe they are just being polite---but Amel owners are not slow to express their views on aesthetics , so I don't think so.

Ian and Judy, Pen Azen, SM 302, Greece

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Ruslan Osmonov <rosmonov@...>
Sent: 02 December 2022 22:33
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Raising the waterline on an Amel that lists to one side?
 
Hi Scott, my 2c. Why not raise it to one of red stripes? 
If you try to make the waterline even, then later If the boat is balanced again, the water line will become crooked. To me uneven bottom paint is not a problem, uneven gelcoat height is a huge and rubbing stick into my eye.
I think you also want to preserve AMELs higher bow waterline. A lot of people buy into AMEL philosophy and dont always like deviating from it. If you use stripes and raise it up to them all around, I think it will work.         

On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 3:55 PM Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]
[Reason: mistake]

After nearly 5 years of scrubbing growth off our gelcoat in beautiful tropical locations, we've given up and decided to raise the waterline.

As with many Amels, we are a bit stern heavy, accentuated by the fact that we have a beefy solar arch and Simpson davits, which often hold our 100kg dinghy+motor combination at night on anchor. 

However, we are also suffering the "lithium list" as a result of losing nearly 300kg from our battery bank, located under the starboard side passage berth. This, combined with the heavier 11kw "comfort package" Onan on port, means that our previous 0.5 degree list has now increased to 1.5 degrees to port. 

Anyone repaint their waterline with a list like this? How did you manage it? The boatyard here in NZ believes if we have unequal height painted waterlines on port-stb, it will look terrible. As such, they want to have 8cm of bottom paint showing at the highest point (starboard bow) and then carry that laser aimed line through both sides to the stern. That would mean there is more bottom paint showing on starboard side, but at least port side won't have gelcoat underwater.

I have virtually no artistic sense, but I was considering a painted waterline that was higher on port, where the boat is heavier, but the painter believes, probably rightfully so, that theres's no good way to have the uneven height lines meet at the bow/stern.

Part of me is considering just ditching our Onan because we've used it a grand total of 8 hours in the last 12 months, despite being mostly off-grid!

Any thoughts or experiences that could help guide me? Thanks!

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


--
Fair winds
Ruslan Osmonov
Phantom, A54 #44


Randall Walker
 

Hello Scott and Mia

I like the idea of removing the Onan Gen. and trying to figure the balance correction. As with myself I have rarely used the gen. You could possibly add an additional set of batteries to the bank, and install a smaller gen. there are many quieter models than we have. And it may make getting to the water maker easier.
So my opinion is to stand your boat up! 

Randall
ALBEDO
A54#56


On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 16:48 Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:
After nearly 5 years of scrubbing growth off our gelcoat in beautiful tropical locations, we've given up and decided to raise the waterline.

As with many Amels, we are a bit stern heavy, accentuated by the fact that we have a beefy solar arch and Simpson davits, which often hold our 100kg dinghy+motor combination at night on anchor. 

However, we are also suffering the "lithium list" as a result of losing nearly 300kg from our battery bank, located under the starboard side passage berth. This, combined with the heavier 11kw "comfort package" Onan on port, means that our previous 0.5 degree list has now increased to 1.5 degrees to port. 

Anyone repaint their waterline with a list like this? How did you manage it? The boatyard here in NZ believes if we have unequal height painted waterlines on port-stb, it will look terrible. As such, they want to have 8cm of bottom paint showing at the highest point (port bow) and then carry that laser aimed line through both sides to the stern. That would mean there is more bottom paint showing on starboard side, but at least port side won't have gelcoat underwater.

I have virtually no artistic sense, but I was considering a painted waterline that was higher on port, where the boat is heavier, but the painter believes, probably rightfully so, that theres's no good way to have the uneven height lines meet at the bow/stern.

Part of me is considering just ditching our Onan because we've used it a grand total of 8 hours in the last 12 months, despite being mostly off-grid!

Any thoughts or experiences that could help guide me? Thanks!

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Scott SV Tengah
 

Hi Michael,

So just to make sure I understand correctly, you kept the existing stripe and antifoul line up to the forward lowers and then from that point, the bootstripe and antifoul start pointing more upwards and ends up at the stern higher that before?

In some sense, like a V?

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Scott SV Tengah
 

Ruslan,

The current scum line is ABOVE the stripe on port side! Especially at the stern. I am liking Michael's idea of keeping the line the same from the bow to the main mast lowers, then raising it from there. If indeed, that's what he did?

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Scott SV Tengah
 

Do you have a photo of this? (general question to all who have raised their waterline)

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Scott SV Tengah
 

Randall,

Trust me, I was seriously considering getting rid of the genset. 

Unfortunately it's not just a port-stb list. The stern is so heavy due to the arch + Simpson davits + hydraulic passerelle + dinghy+motor + all the crap we accumulated in the lazarette.

I am upgrading to 1.3kw total on the arch soon, so that will add another 9kg! But then it will seriously call in question the wisdom of keeping the Onan.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Ruslan Osmonov
 

Hi Scott, is scum line above the first red wide stripe?
Image attached to show what I meant, paint all the way up all around to cover first wide red stripe. 


On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 11:39 AM Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:
Ruslan,

The current scum line is ABOVE the stripe on port side! Especially at the stern. I am liking Michael's idea of keeping the line the same from the bow to the main mast lowers, then raising it from there. If indeed, that's what he did?

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

--

--
Fair winds
Ruslan Osmonov
Phantom, A54 #44


Michael Winand
 

Hi Scott, I repainted the whole bootstraps,  I started the raising at the forward lowers, it's a gradual process, 5mm per metre, then 6mm per metre, at the very stern point as the line is more horizontal it's much wider---it's raising further up about 70mm. 
It was a lot of tape and measured side to side (the original was not 100%even side to side)
Hope this helps. 
Michael Nebo sm251 

On Tue, 6 Dec 2022, 3:37 am Scott SV Tengah, <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:
Hi Michael,

So just to make sure I understand correctly, you kept the existing stripe and antifoul line up to the forward lowers and then from that point, the bootstripe and antifoul start pointing more upwards and ends up at the stern higher that before?

In some sense, like a V?

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Craig Briggs
 

Years ago I mentioned our listing problem to a Ft Lauerdale pro who mostly dealt with power boats. His quick answer was, "just lead her over, like we (powerboaters) do", meaning to place some lead on the starboard side to offset the list, be it from a generator to port, a stern heavy arch, or, nowadays, light weigh of lithium batteries to starboard.

There are many options. On our SN the starboard forward hanging locker is perfect. Just build some sturdy racks outboard of where the clothes hang, anchored to the fore and aft bulkheads so no load is on the hull, and lash or bolt some lead bricks onto them. Many options are available - this one gets the weigh forward to lift the stern as well as offset the port list. I initially reacted negatively to his suggestion as added weight seemed anathama to having a fast boat - he simply asked if I was racing anymore. Not.

And, most likely, the waterline can stay at its original position.
--
Craig Briggs - s/v Sangaris / SN68  Tropic Isle Harbor, FL


Alan "Woody" Wood
 

Hi Scott..
Like you I'd love to ditch the Onan but need to do some upgrading of the Solar Panels first. What type have you got?
We raised the waterline a few years ago and its such a relief not having to watch the scum grow on the gelcoat anymore.. Not sure if I can post YT links here but this is how we did it and what we used.. with the help of a professional painter in Almerimar - Raising The Waterline and Repairing Gel Coat and Epoxy Layer before Antifouling the Hull- https://youtu.be/8QEAIdavdLU


Scott SV Tengah
 

Ruslan,

Unfortunately on the port side aft quarter, it's above the top red line. I'll need to raise it far above that.
--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Scott SV Tengah
 

Woody,

I am upgrading my LG Neon 2 (320w x 3) to Sunpower Maxeon 3 (430w x 3). I had some thoughts about putting 2 panels above the cockpit on a stainless frame, but decided it wasn't worth the brain damage to figure it out. Too many other things to work on!

Chris on Glazig has figured out how to put a pair of Sunpower Maxeon 3 400w above the cockpit on his SM, so might be worth talking to him if you're interested. 

Sunpower panels are more expensive than Chinese panels or even LG, but far better in many respects. 

PS - your video was quite helpful. We will likely put a sticker on vs. paint the bootstripe. 

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Porter McRoberts
 

Scott. A question and your thoughts if you would. 
I imagine the  port side list also fully submerges the engine exhaust, generator exhaust and raw bilge water exit. Does that generate any concerns regarding water ingress?  Especially if there is damage to a thru hull?  Somewhere I am thinking back to a comment re Amel philosophy of through hulls being just above the waterline. 
How about a much smaller generator. Or even a dc generator to reduce weight?  

Porter
A54-152
W. Porter McRoberts 
+1 754 265 2206

On Dec 15, 2022, at 3:12 PM, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:

Woody,

I am upgrading my LG Neon 2 (320w x 3) to Sunpower Maxeon 3 (430w x 3). I had some thoughts about putting 2 panels above the cockpit on a stainless frame, but decided it wasn't worth the brain damage to figure it out. Too many other things to work on!

Chris on Glazig has figured out how to put a pair of Sunpower Maxeon 3 400w above the cockpit on his SM, so might be worth talking to him if you're interested. 

Sunpower panels are more expensive than Chinese panels or even LG, but far better in many respects. 

PS - your video was quite helpful. We will likely put a sticker on vs. paint the bootstripe. 

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Scott SV Tengah
 

Porter, it may be a legitimate concern but with my boat "bone stock", it listed to port enough to put the engine and genset exhaust underwater. Perhaps the 11kw genset is just too heavy? The bilge exit has been and remains above the waterline.

If I remember right, bone stock, I got CLOSE to keeping the engine/genset exhaust above the waterline if my water tank was empty and fuel tank was full. But of course, that changes.

I will probably just keep my genset and put it on the schedule to run it for a bit every few weeks at 3/4 load (200amps charging + scuba compressor and a few cooking appliances) to keep it in tiptop shape for the next owner in case he/she decides to rip out my lithium/solar setup and go back to lead. 

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com