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Re-power an Amel Sharki


Volker
 

I am planning to replace the original Perkins M50 on my 1989 built Sharki. Is there any advice from the community which are good replacement options and what are potential issues which I have to take care when installing a new engine.
Thank you,
Volker
Mickmoon, Sharki no. 176


Matt Salatino
 

I would have recommended Yanmar, for parts and service availability, worldwide. That was before commonrail fuel injection. Now, a lightning strike can leave you with a $10,000 repair bill, besides your boat electronics.
I’d look for a brand that stilluses mechanical fuel injection. I believe Beta Marine (betamarineenc.com) still does. We repowered with Yanmar before the change. We have several friends who are happy with their betamarine upgrades.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Aug 22, 2020, at 9:26 AM, Volker <Puchta@...> wrote:

I am planning to replace the original Perkins M50 on my 1989 built Sharki. Is there any advice from the community which are good replacement options and what are potential issues which I have to take care when installing a new engine.
Thank you,
Volker
Mickmoon, Sharki no. 176


Gerhard Mueller
 

There is a typo in the link above.
Correct should be: https://www.betamarinenc.com/
--
Gerhard Mueller
Amel Sharki #60
Currently Kalamata, Greece


Arno Luijten
 

I agree you should avoid common rail diesels if possible however 50 Horses engines are still mostly classic injection. Volvo D2-55 could be an option. This is a re-badged Perkins that gives you a little extra power. Volvo can give nice rebates on re-powering if you push them a bit (I have experience).  These 4 cylinders run very nicely. Also have a look at Beta and Nanni. Nanni being French may have have specific experience with Amel. Keep an eye on the weight of the engine the older designs tend to be quite heavy.
Also look carefully at the design of the engine from maintenance point of view. Some engines have impellers and oil filters in places very hard to reach for some boats. For example; my engine is a D110i-C. This model was designed by someone clueless about converting engines for marine use. VP must have fired him as the later models D-H models) were very much different.
So for your Sharki look beyond the initial purchase price. Part prices, availability of parts and effort to maintain are also things to consider.


Ben and Gayle Super Maramu #347
 

Yanmar still offers non-common rail motors up to at least 160 HP.  Actually they offer both versions for each HP range.  It’s your choice.   And they are great motors in my opinion😎

Ben and Gayle 
La Bella Vita 

On Aug 22, 2020, at 5:44 AM, Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:

I agree you should avoid common rail diesels if possible however 50 Horses engines are still mostly classic injection. Volvo D2-55 could be an option. This is a re-badged Perkins that gives you a little extra power. Volvo can give nice rebates on re-powering if you push them a bit (I have experience).  These 4 cylinders run very nicely. Also have a look at Beta and Nanni. Nanni being French may have have specific experience with Amel. Keep an eye on the weight of the engine the older designs tend to be quite heavy.
Also look carefully at the design of the engine from maintenance point of view. Some engines have impellers and oil filters in places very hard to reach for some boats. For example; my engine is a D110i-C. This model was designed by someone clueless about converting engines for marine use. VP must have fired him as the later models D-H models) were very much different.
So for your Sharki look beyond the initial purchase price. Part prices, availability of parts and effort to maintain are also things to consider.


Matt Salatino
 

That would be great. I do t think the mechanically injected ones are available in the US....not sure, though.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Aug 22, 2020, at 5:07 PM, Ben and Gayle Super Maramu #347 via groups.io <joedoakes66@...> wrote:

Yanmar still offers non-common rail motors up to at least 160 HP.  Actually they offer both versions for each HP range.  It’s your choice.   And they are great motors in my opinion😎

Ben and Gayle 
La Bella Vita 

On Aug 22, 2020, at 5:44 AM, Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:

I agree you should avoid common rail diesels if possible however 50 Horses engines are still mostly classic injection. Volvo D2-55 could be an option. This is a re-badged Perkins that gives you a little extra power. Volvo can give nice rebates on re-powering if you push them a bit (I have experience).  These 4 cylinders run very nicely. Also have a look at Beta and Nanni. Nanni being French may have have specific experience with Amel. Keep an eye on the weight of the engine the older designs tend to be quite heavy.
Also look carefully at the design of the engine from maintenance point of view. Some engines have impellers and oil filters in places very hard to reach for some boats. For example; my engine is a D110i-C. This model was designed by someone clueless about converting engines for marine use. VP must have fired him as the later models D-H models) were very much different.
So for your Sharki look beyond the initial purchase price. Part prices, availability of parts and effort to maintain are also things to consider.


Volker
 

Good advise not to go with the new common rail technology. That are exactly my thoughts to go for simple but reliable. 
As Beta is not that common here in Europe, I have got an offer for a Sole Mini 62. Spanish brand, Mitsubishi basis 4 stroke, without turbo. 
The old Perkins installed by Amel does have a mass free installation (minus does have complete extra wiring). I think this is not standard installation and may need modifications in the motor electrics. Does anyone know wether this is really essential?

Thank‘s
Volker
Mickmoon, Sharki hull no. 176


 

I recommend Beta because:

They use Kubota diesels
They have no computer
They have more experience with isolated ground, and 
My clients who have repowered with them are happy.

Email me if you want more. brouse@...

Best,

CW Bill Rouse 
Amel Owners Yacht School
+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com 
Yacht School Calendar: www.preparetocastoff.blogspot.com/p/calendar.html


   


On Sat, Aug 22, 2020, 12:40 PM Volker <Puchta@...> wrote:
Good advise not to go with the new common rail technology. That are exactly my thoughts to go for simple but reliable. 
As Beta is not that common here in Europe, I have got an offer for a Sole Mini 62. Spanish brand, Mitsubishi basis 4 stroke, without turbo. 
The old Perkins installed by Amel does have a mass free installation (minus does have complete extra wiring). I think this is not standard installation and may need modifications in the motor electrics. Does anyone know wether this is really essential?

Thank‘s
Volker
Mickmoon, Sharki hull no. 176


Craig Briggs
 

Hi Volker,
Just out of curiosity, how many hours are on your M50 and what issues are leading you to plan on a replacement?
Cheers, Craig  SN68 Sangaris, Tropic Isle Harbor, FL


Elja Röllinghoff Balu SM 222
 

Please one question .
What is the problem with the commonrail technik on a sail boat ?

Thanks Elja
SM Balu 222

Von meinem iPhone gesendet


Matt Salatino
 

Mechanical fuel injection is very reliable. It only needs clean fuel, and the lubricaring qualities of the fuel will keep the system happy for many years.
Commonrail fuel injection was developed to satisfy strict pollution requirements. The fuel is kept at high pressure behind all injectors (common rail) and the opening and closing of electronically controlled injectors is controlled by a computer. The computer can turn on and off the injectors rapidly, cycling the injectors multiple times during one combustion cycle. This allows the fuel to be burned to reduce pollution. 
Good on paper.
The problem arises if an electronic component, computer, injector, sensor, etc, fails. This requires an electronics tech to diagnose.
Also, and of most importance, a lightning strike can destroy the electronics, disabling the engine entirely. This can’t happen with mechanical fuel injection.
I was at the Annapolis Boat Show, admiring the Yanmar engines at their display. I asked a technician there what happens if the boat is struck by lightning. He replied that he just repaired a new engine that suffered a lightning strike. He replaced the computer, the injectors, and all sensors. The bill to the customer was $10,000.
A mechanically fuel injected engine would have no failure and subsequent repair bill.
Otherwise, no problems at all!😀

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Aug 23, 2020, at 11:41 AM, Elja Röllinghoff Balu SM 222 <Bijorka@...> wrote:

Please one question .
What is the problem with the commonrail technik on a sail boat ?

Thanks Elja
SM Balu 222

Von meinem iPhone gesendet




Elja Röllinghoff Balu SM 222
 

He Matt

Thank you.
the hotel was a very helpful and very understandable answer!

Thanks Elja
SM Balu 222

Von meinem iPhone gesendet


Volker
 

The Perkins M50 has run 4300 hours. It start still good on the first click, but creates some oil smoke and he oil consumption is at about 1 liter per 100 hours.
A complete rebuilt would cost about 50% of an brand new engine. Could be an option, but if you one day decide to sell the boat this would not benefit the selling price.

Volker
Mickmoon, Sharki hull no 176


Matt Salatino
 

Much of the expense is the labor involved, so the 50% component of the motor, isn’t so much. Also, you don’t rebuild everything. Some components will still be original. Are you going to rebuild the HP pump? The injectors? If so, the 50% difference declines...... given my life’s lessons with rebuild vs new, I’d go with new every time.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Aug 23, 2020, at 1:21 PM, Volker <Puchta@...> wrote:

The Perkins M50 has run 4300 hours. It start still good on the first click, but creates some oil smoke and he oil consumption is at about 1 liter per 100 hours.
A complete rebuilt would cost about 50% of an brand new engine. Could be an option, but if you one day decide to sell the boat this would not benefit the selling price.

Volker
Mickmoon, Sharki hull no 176


Arno Luijten
 

Hi Matt,

I'm not saying the mechanical injection is not preferable on a boat. But saying common rail was developed just to satisfy emission regulations is not true. It was obviously a added bonus that should be cared for if not for our children, but the efficiency, smoothness and power delivery of a modern common rail diesel is so much better then the classic stuff. Especially if you go into turbo-diesel territory.
So in a car its vastly preferably over the old technology. But I do agree, for a boat much less so. But keep in mind the following, there are still people that say a engine has no place on a sailing yacht and you should handle everything with your sails. I'm not one of them but my point is that what now is seen as normal used to be exotic and failure prone. Fact is that a huge number of boats use common rail now and it's not like they are all failing because of whatever.

My point is that when deciding for a new engine, look at the full package and decide on what you feel is important to you. I know there is one Yanmar engine where for many boats it is close to impossible to change the impeller as it sits on the other end of the engine. So if you are in the middle of wherever and need to change a failing impeller you will not be a happy camper. That does not make Yanmar a bad engine. They have a well deserved good reputation.

My own D3-110 has it flaws but I can't complain about the smoothness, efficiency and quietness of this engine. Thanks to being common rail.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Matt Salatino
 

We have a D.3  110 also. Our previous boat had a Yanmar without Turbo our common rail. It was every bit as smooth and quiet as our D3. Never had a sensor issue. Clean fuel is all it needed. 
To me, there are so many complex systems on out boats, the simpler any one component, the better. 
We like the D3 so far, but we’re only up to the 250 hour service interval. 

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Aug 23, 2020, at 3:43 PM, Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:

Hi Matt,

I'm not saying the mechanical injection is not preferable on a boat. But saying common rail was developed just to satisfy emission regulations is not true. It was obviously a added bonus that should be cared for if not for our children, but the efficiency, smoothness and power delivery of a modern common rail diesel is so much better then the classic stuff. Especially if you go into turbo-diesel territory.
So in a car its vastly preferably over the old technology. But I do agree, for a boat much less so. But keep in mind the following, there are still people that say a engine has no place on a sailing yacht and you should handle everything with your sails. I'm not one of them but my point is that what now is seen as normal used to be exotic and failure prone. Fact is that a huge number of boats use common rail now and it's not like they are all failing because of whatever.

My point is that when deciding for a new engine, look at the full package and decide on what you feel is important to you. I know there is one Yanmar engine where for many boats it is close to impossible to change the impeller as it sits on the other end of the engine. So if you are in the middle of wherever and need to change a failing impeller you will not be a happy camper. That does not make Yanmar a bad engine. They have a well deserved good reputation.

My own D3-110 has it flaws but I can't complain about the smoothness, efficiency and quietness of this engine. Thanks to being common rail.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Denis Foster
 

Hello,

I agree about the more robust system is mechanical injection found on old engines or still made for the non recreational market.

Besides the pollution compliance the main advantage is that the engine runs better even if under loaded which is quite common with modern sailboats that are often « overpowered ». The mechanical injection pump is tuned for around 70-80% load. At the 20% 30% load it is usually feeding to much fuel with the risk of glazing. Some mechanics advise running at near maximum load every ten hours for around 30minutes. AKA « Italian tuning ».

Modern common rail doesn’t need that apparently anymore.

These electronic diesel injectors can be all electronic or hydraulic electronically regulated. Both are sensible to lightning strike.

Once a mechanical diesel has started it only needs clean fuel and air to work. Very robust and reliable.



Denis



Envoyé de mon iPhone


Denis Foster
 

Besides the pollution compliance the main advantage of electronic common rail is that the engine runs better even if under loaded which is quite common with modern sailboats that are often « overpowered ». The mechanical injection pump is tuned for around 70-80% load. At the 20% 30% load it is usually feeding to much fuel with the risk of glazing. Some mechanics advise running at near maximum load every ten hours for around 30minutes. AKA « Italian tuning ».

Envoyé de mon iPhone


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Volker, have you factored in the instalation cost of the new engine. This can be as high as the shelf price of the engine. 

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 23 August 2020 at 23:21 Volker <Puchta@...> wrote:

The Perkins M50 has run 4300 hours. It start still good on the first click, but creates some oil smoke and he oil consumption is at about 1 liter per 100 hours.
A complete rebuilt would cost about 50% of an brand new engine. Could be an option, but if you one day decide to sell the boat this would not benefit the selling price.

Volker
Mickmoon, Sharki hull no 176