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EricOpdeweegh
Dear Amelians, We are about to remove the masts and haul out for the winter. It will be the first time for us so we do not fully understand the best procedure regarding the removal of the forestay/genoa profile. We wonder if it is possible to leave the genoa furling gear box & motor in place so we do not have to disconnect the power cable from the motor. See photos of our set up. Can we remove the three (3) bolts on the grey manual furling disc, remove the turnbuckle and subsequently lift the profile with the grey manual furling disk out of the gearbox with the forestay? Meaning we also do not have to drill out the rivets from the profile. Or do we need to disconnect the gear box/furlermotor from the bowchain plate too? And disconnect the power cable? Looking forward to you advise. Best Regards Eric Opdeweegh sv Abayomi SM 158 Currently in The Netherlands      ?
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Chuck_Kim_Joy
Greetings. If you are removing the mast then forestay comes too. You will want to drill out rivets and replace with bolts. You will want to remove forestay from foil inspect and regrease. Inspect turnbuckle and replace if your getting close. You will have to remove the furling motor. Consider having it serviced. DO NOT CUT THE CABLE FROM THE MOTOR! Simply cut black mastic out of tube and go below and disconnect from solenoids.
All the best! Chuck sv Joy sm388
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We’ve just removed/replaced the same setup on our Santorin. We drilled out the rivets and found that there was significant enlargement of the river holes in the forestay. So we cut off the end and started with new holes.
But removal of the motor gives you the opportunity to check the springs, brushes and commutator on the motor. Also you can check for any wear on the gearbox. I didn’t see if you have greasing points on your gearbox, but while the motor is out it is the best time to install them.
My new ACMO turnbuckle was a larger diameter than the original ( my boat is 1994). So do check this as you may have to enlarge the hole in the plastic bottom plate!
To release the foil once the rivets are out use a thin cord as a prussik loop or riding hitch and use your haliard to pull it out.
Altogether it is not a difficult job.
Ian
Ocean Hobo SN 96
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EricOpdeweegh
Thank you Ian and Chuck for your quick reply.
Our rigging was replaced by the previous owner 8 years ago. We sure do want to inspect the forestay and replace if it appears to be neccesary .
I did however understand that if the furler sheave does release easy from the gearbox it would not be nessecary to drill out the rivets.
The rivets appear fine and we initially do not expect enlargement in the profile.
As such we would prefer to leave the rivets if possible.
The question is can we remove the forestay and profile without removing the gearbox and furler motor at the bottom chainplate?
We prefer to leave the gearbox and motor in place if possible and look at them in a later stage this winter.
So is it possible to remove the three bolts which connect the manual furler sheave to the gearbox and lift the profile and forestay out of them?
Assume we have to turn off the turnbuckle too as the hole in the bottom of the gearbox is too small.
And if we have to remove the gearbox/motor, how do we do that? Do we lower it down or do we lift it off with the mast, profile and forestay in one go. And remove it later?
Any experience in best procedure is welcome.
Regards
Eric Opdeweegh
sv Abayomi
SM158
Currently in The Netherlands
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Chuck_Kim_Joy
If you are going to drop the mast as you said. Then all will be laying horizontal. You can extract the forestay from the foil without removing anything else. The motor moves the foil. I'm not sure if removing mast and head sail unit together or head sail unit first would be better. Maybe more labor to do it separately?
Thank you Ian and Chuck for your quick reply.
Our rigging was replaced by the previous owner 8 years ago. We sure do want to inspect the forestay and replace if it appears to be neccesary .
I did however understand that if the furler sheave does release easy from the gearbox it would not be nessecary to drill out the rivets.
The rivets appear fine and we initially do not expect enlargement in the profile.
As such we would prefer to leave the rivets if possible.
The question is can we remove the forestay and profile without removing the gearbox and furler motor at the bottom chainplate?
We prefer to leave the gearbox and motor in place if possible and look at them in a later stage this winter.
So is it possible to remove the three bolts which connect the manual furler sheave to the gearbox and lift the profile and forestay out of them?
Assume we have to turn off the turnbuckle too as the hole in the bottom of the gearbox is too small.
And if we have to remove the gearbox/motor, how do we do that? Do we lower it down or do we lift it off with the mast, profile and forestay in one go. And remove it later?
Any experience in best procedure is welcome.
Regards
Eric Opdeweegh
sv Abayomi
SM158
Currently in The Netherlands
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My new ACMO turnbuckle was a larger diameter than the original ( my boat is 1994). So do check this as you may have to enlarge the hole in the plastic bottom plate!
This is very unfortunate to hear. The "Amel special" turnbuckle for under the genoa furler was one of the reasons to use ACMO rigging. Hopefully, it was just a one-time mistake by a stock clerk, and not a forgetting of the right way to assemble an Amel rig. What makes this turnbuckle "special" is not the diameter, but rather its length--it is much shorter than a standard turnbuckle of the same diameter. Here is a photo of a fully "OEM" version of the furler and turnbuckle as installed by the Amel staff in Martinique this past year who replaced the entire head stay on this boat. The turnbuckle should not extend up inside the housing of the furler. Note also that in addition to the shorter turnbuckle, the threaded studs that go into it are significantly shorter than typical as well. This is one of the reasons why dealing with a rigger experienced with, and respectful of, Amel systems is important.  The photos in the original post by Eric above show several modifications made to force a fit with standard rigging parts. The turnbuckle shown is a lot longer than the Amel original, and the tie-plate is as well. Raising the furler by this much, means that the foil must have been cut shorter. Be aware when ordering sails for this boat, that the foil is not of the original length and needs to be measured to be sure the luff length of the sail's luff is correct. Standard length Amel sails MIGHT be too long. The rolled edges on the longer tie-plate were added in an effort to keep the tie plate from bending. The ONLY reason these plates bend is because the boat is sailed with too little tension on the genoa halyard. This part should always be under tension. It is not designed to hold the furler, foil and sail up from the bottom while sailing. Here is the process I use for disconnecting the headstay:
- Remove the sail. This will make the entire process of removing and reinstalling MUCH easier.
- Mark the correct position of the turnbuckle so you can reset the length when things go back together. AND take a good close up picture in case the marks are lost!
- Tie the genoa halyard to the anchor roller, and pull it snug to support the mast while the halyard is disconnected. It doesn't need to be bar tight, there is no real load on things.
- Disconnect the motor wires from the box in the locker. Label or photograph the box before you disconnect things, so you get them back right. Pull the wires out of the tube. If some misguided soul used a polyurethane adhesive (instead of silicone) to seal the tube, you have my permission to cuss at him while you try to dig the wires out.
- Hitch the ballooner halyard to the foil, and tension it to support its weight.
- Disconnect the tie-plate from the chainplate. At this point, the ballooner halyard is holding up the furler and the foil. The foil can slide a few inches up the headstay if needed.
- Unscrew the turnbuckle until it comes apart. Have a helper holding the forestay, it's heavy. The forestay is now disconnected. Eric, on yours, you will want to mark the threads on the bottom of the turnbuckle at this point, so you know where to start the upper threads as things go together.
- Pull the clevis pin from the chainplate, and thread the turnbuckle and tis attached part back below the furler. This will keep the furler and foil from falling off the headstay while the mast is lifted.
To reinstall, do things in reverse, EXCEPT, thread the turnbuckle together just enough to hold, and then install the clevis pin that holds the forestay to the chainplate. then tension the turnbuckle to your marks and continue assembly. Bill Kinney SM160, Harmonie
Port Louis, Grenada http://www.cruisingconsulting.com
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EricOpdeweegh
Hi Bill Kinney, Thank you for your extensive explanation and good observations. Really appreciated and helpful. As you know we have SM 158 just over a year now we are learning every project 😊 Thanks for the OEM photo, ours is clearly not the original OEM/ACMO turnbuckle. It is longer for sure. If the foil has been cut is not yet clear as you can see (in the photos posted next to each other below) also the forestay/thread above the turnbuckle is shorter than in your photo. It is just below the gear box so I hope to be able to remove it without too much difficulty. ( I am missing the end terminal on the upper tread to hold the forestay from twisting while turning the turnbuckle open) I already marked the treads under the turnbuckle to come back to the current tension ( As I did with all turnbuckles) Will do the upper end too. After taking down the rig next week I will consider to go back to the original Acmo forestay depending the condition of the current forestay. Luckily the foil is still of enough length to fit the original Genoa luff length (I ordered and received a new genoa from Q-sails last winter without knowing about this issue)  Your remark regarding tieplate and the tension in the genoa halyard noted and taken into acount! Question After 6 / 7 : If I remove the tie plate from the bottom end of the gearbox, can I lower the gearbox with motor and leave the power cable connected if I unbolt (3 bolts) the manual furler sheave? ( Avoiding to drill out the rivets; if it is not stuck/corroded) Meaning while lowering the gearbox/motor, pulling the forestay & furler out of the gearbox . And thereafter reinstall the turnbuckle to prevent the foil from falling down the forestay (while lifting off the mast) Or is this not possible, unworkable? Safe Sailing Bill and once again thanks for your explanations. Extremely helpful. Eric sv Abayomi SM 158
Van: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> Namens Bill Kinney Verzonden: zaterdag 15 oktober 2022 20:28 Aan: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Onderwerp: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] removal forestay & genoa profile My new ACMO turnbuckle was a larger diameter than the original ( my boat is 1994). So do check this as you may have to enlarge the hole in the plastic bottom plate!
This is very unfortunate to hear. The "Amel special" turnbuckle for under the genoa furler was one of the reasons to use ACMO rigging. Hopefully, it was just a one-time mistake by a stock clerk, and not a forgetting of the right way to assemble an Amel rig.
What makes this turnbuckle "special" is not the diameter, but rather its length--it is much shorter than a standard turnbuckle of the same diameter. Here is a photo of a fully "OEM" version of the furler and turnbuckle as installed by the Amel staff in Martinique this past year who replaced the entire head stay on this boat. The turnbuckle should not extend up inside the housing of the furler. Note also that in addition to the shorter turnbuckle, the threaded studs that go into it are significantly shorter than typical as well. This is one of the reasons why dealing with a rigger experienced with, and respectful of, Amel systems is important.
 
The photos in the original post by Eric above show several modifications made to force a fit with standard rigging parts. The turnbuckle shown is a lot longer than the Amel original, and the tie-plate is as well. Raising the furler by this much, means that the foil must have been cut shorter. Be aware when ordering sails for this boat, that the foil is not of the original length and needs to be measured to be sure the luff length of the sail's luff is correct. Standard length Amel sails MIGHT be too long.
The rolled edges on the longer tie-plate were added in an effort to keep the tie plate from bending. The ONLY reason these plates bend is because the boat is sailed with too little tension on the genoa halyard. This part should always be under tension. It is not designed to hold the furler, foil and sail up from the bottom while sailing.
Here is the process I use for disconnecting the headstay: - Remove the sail. This will make the entire process of removing and reinstalling MUCH easier.
- Mark the correct position of the turnbuckle so you can reset the length when things go back together. AND take a good close up picture in case the marks are lost!
- Tie the genoa halyard to the anchor roller, and pull it snug to support the mast while the halyard is disconnected. It doesn't need to be bar tight, there is no real load on things.
- Disconnect the motor wires from the box in the locker. Label or photograph the box before you disconnect things, so you get them back right. Pull the wires out of the tube. If some misguided soul used a polyurethane adhesive (instead of silicone) to seal the tube, you have my permission to cuss at him while you try to dig the wires out.
- Hitch the ballooner halyard to the foil, and tension it to support its weight.
- Disconnect the tie-plate from the chainplate. At this point, the ballooner halyard is holding up the furler and the foil. The foil can slide a few inches up the headstay if needed.
- Unscrew the turnbuckle until it comes apart. Have a helper holding the forestay, it's heavy. The forestay is now disconnected. Eric, on yours, you will want to mark the threads on the bottom of the turnbuckle at this point, so you know where to start the upper threads as things go together.
- Pull the clevis pin from the chainplate, and thread the turnbuckle and tis attached part back below the furler. This will keep the furler and foil from falling off the headstay while the mast is lifted.
To reinstall, do things in reverse, EXCEPT, thread the turnbuckle together just enough to hold, and then install the clevis pin that holds the forestay to the chainplate. then tension the turnbuckle to your marks and continue assembly.
Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Port Louis, Grenada
http://www.cruisingconsulting.com
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Ross Hickey & Donna Hammond
I can advise you that yes you can disconnect the forestay without having to disconnect the wires from the locker and breaking the seal of the wires. You need to ensure that you hold the weight of the furler motor by lashing it up to the stainless guard rails. Undo the three bolts that are above the backup furler and by following the steps Bill has provided you should find that the furler will serape from the motor. You do not need to drill out the rivets if they are obviously in good condition either.
I replaced the entire rigging myself with new ACMO rigging and some assistance from a rigger for the forestay only. A number of Amel owners have disconnected the wires and drilled out the rivets but it can be removed without doing this.
Kind regards Ross Hickey SV intrepid Kiwi SM2K 356
On Saturday, October 15, 2022, 10:02 PM, EricOpdeweegh <sv.abayomi@...> wrote: Hi Bill Kinney, Thank you for your extensive explanation and good observations. Really appreciated and helpful. As you know we have SM 158 just over a year now we are learning every project 😊 Thanks for the OEM photo, ours is clearly not the original OEM/ACMO turnbuckle. It is longer for sure. If the foil has been cut is not yet clear as you can see (in the photos posted next to each other below) also the forestay/thread above the turnbuckle is shorter than in your photo. It is just below the gear box so I hope to be able to remove it without too much difficulty. ( I am missing the end terminal on the upper tread to hold the forestay from twisting while turning the turnbuckle open) I already marked the treads under the turnbuckle to come back to the current tension ( As I did with all turnbuckles) Will do the upper end too. After taking down the rig next week I will consider to go back to the original Acmo forestay depending the condition of the current forestay. Luckily the foil is still of enough length to fit the original Genoa luff length (I ordered and received a new genoa from Q-sails last winter without knowing about this issue)  Your remark regarding tieplate and the tension in the genoa halyard noted and taken into acount! Question After 6 / 7 : If I remove the tie plate from the bottom end of the gearbox, can I lower the gearbox with motor and leave the power cable connected if I unbolt (3 bolts) the manual furler sheave? ( Avoiding to drill out the rivets; if it is not stuck/corroded) Meaning while lowering the gearbox/motor, pulling the forestay & furler out of the gearbox . And thereafter reinstall the turnbuckle to prevent the foil from falling down the forestay (while lifting off the mast) Or is this not possible, unworkable? Safe Sailing Bill and once again thanks for your explanations. Extremely helpful. Eric sv Abayomi SM 158 Van: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> Namens Bill Kinney
Verzonden: zaterdag 15 oktober 2022 20:28
Aan: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Onderwerp: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] removal forestay & genoa profile My new ACMO turnbuckle was a larger diameter than the original ( my boat is 1994). So do check this as you may have to enlarge the hole in the plastic bottom plate!
This is very unfortunate to hear. The "Amel special" turnbuckle for under the genoa furler was one of the reasons to use ACMO rigging. Hopefully, it was just a one-time mistake by a stock clerk, and not a forgetting of the right way to assemble an Amel rig.
What makes this turnbuckle "special" is not the diameter, but rather its length--it is much shorter than a standard turnbuckle of the same diameter. Here is a photo of a fully "OEM" version of the furler and turnbuckle as installed by the Amel staff in Martinique this past year who replaced the entire head stay on this boat. The turnbuckle should not extend up inside the housing of the furler. Note also that in addition to the shorter turnbuckle, the threaded studs that go into it are significantly shorter than typical as well. This is one of the reasons why dealing with a rigger experienced with, and respectful of, Amel systems is important.
 
The photos in the original post by Eric above show several modifications made to force a fit with standard rigging parts. The turnbuckle shown is a lot longer than the Amel original, and the tie-plate is as well. Raising the furler by this much, means that the foil must have been cut shorter. Be aware when ordering sails for this boat, that the foil is not of the original length and needs to be measured to be sure the luff length of the sail's luff is correct. Standard length Amel sails MIGHT be too long.
The rolled edges on the longer tie-plate were added in an effort to keep the tie plate from bending. The ONLY reason these plates bend is because the boat is sailed with too little tension on the genoa halyard. This part should always be under tension. It is not designed to hold the furler, foil and sail up from the bottom while sailing.
Here is the process I use for disconnecting the headstay: - Remove the sail. This will make the entire process of removing and reinstalling MUCH easier.
- Mark the correct position of the turnbuckle so you can reset the length when things go back together. AND take a good close up picture in case the marks are lost!
- Tie the genoa halyard to the anchor roller, and pull it snug to support the mast while the halyard is disconnected. It doesn't need to be bar tight, there is no real load on things.
- Disconnect the motor wires from the box in the locker. Label or photograph the box before you disconnect things, so you get them back right. Pull the wires out of the tube. If some misguided soul used a polyurethane adhesive (instead of silicone) to seal the tube, you have my permission to cuss at him while you try to dig the wires out.
- Hitch the ballooner halyard to the foil, and tension it to support its weight.
- Disconnect the tie-plate from the chainplate. At this point, the ballooner halyard is holding up the furler and the foil. The foil can slide a few inches up the headstay if needed.
- Unscrew the turnbuckle until it comes apart. Have a helper holding the forestay, it's heavy. The forestay is now disconnected. Eric, on yours, you will want to mark the threads on the bottom of the turnbuckle at this point, so you know where to start the upper threads as things go together.
- Pull the clevis pin from the chainplate, and thread the turnbuckle and tis attached part back below the furler. This will keep the furler and foil from falling off the headstay while the mast is lifted.
To reinstall, do things in reverse, EXCEPT, thread the turnbuckle together just enough to hold, and then install the clevis pin that holds the forestay to the chainplate. then tension the turnbuckle to your marks and continue assembly.
Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Port Louis, Grenada
http://www.cruisingconsulting.com
--
Ross Hickey & Donna Hammond
SV Intrepid Kiwi
SM2K #356
Currently in Turkey
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EricOpdeweegh
Thank you Ross, That is what I did this afternoon , However the sheave did not move and is apparently stuck tight. So finally I drilled out the rivets anyway. But left the wires of the motor connected and sealing in place. Will probably heat the sheave slightly in a later stage to see if I can separate It from the gearbox to be able to sandpaper and give it a nice new coating .
Thanks anyway for the reply and experience And enjoy Tangier with Stefan and Stella from Malakka Queen
Wish you great weather
Eric Sv Abayomi SM 158
Op 16 okt. 2022 om 16:36 heeft Ross Hickey & Donna Hammond via groups.io <southernadventurer@...> het volgende geschreven:
I can advise you that yes you can disconnect the forestay without having to disconnect the wires from the locker and breaking the seal of the wires. You need to ensure that you hold the weight of the furler motor by lashing it up to the stainless guard rails. Undo the three bolts that are above the backup furler and by following the steps Bill has provided you should find that the furler will serape from the motor. You do not need to drill out the rivets if they are obviously in good condition either.
I replaced the entire rigging myself with new ACMO rigging and some assistance from a rigger for the forestay only. A number of Amel owners have disconnected the wires and drilled out the rivets but it can be removed without doing this.
Kind regards Ross Hickey SV intrepid Kiwi SM2K 356 Currently in Morocco. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPadOn Saturday, October 15, 2022, 10:02 PM, EricOpdeweegh <sv.abayomi@...> wrote: Hi Bill Kinney, Thank you for your extensive explanation and good observations. Really appreciated and helpful. As you know we have SM 158 just over a year now we are learning every project 😊 Thanks for the OEM photo, ours is clearly not the original OEM/ACMO turnbuckle. It is longer for sure. If the foil has been cut is not yet clear as you can see (in the photos posted next to each other below) also the forestay/thread above the turnbuckle is shorter than in your photo. It is just below the gear box so I hope to be able to remove it without too much difficulty. ( I am missing the end terminal on the upper tread to hold the forestay from twisting while turning the turnbuckle open) I already marked the treads under the turnbuckle to come back to the current tension ( As I did with all turnbuckles) Will do the upper end too. After taking down the rig next week I will consider to go back to the original Acmo forestay depending the condition of the current forestay. Luckily the foil is still of enough length to fit the original Genoa luff length (I ordered and received a new genoa from Q-sails last winter without knowing about this issue)  Your remark regarding tieplate and the tension in the genoa halyard noted and taken into acount! Question After 6 / 7 : If I remove the tie plate from the bottom end of the gearbox, can I lower the gearbox with motor and leave the power cable connected if I unbolt (3 bolts) the manual furler sheave? ( Avoiding to drill out the rivets; if it is not stuck/corroded) Meaning while lowering the gearbox/motor, pulling the forestay & furler out of the gearbox . And thereafter reinstall the turnbuckle to prevent the foil from falling down the forestay (while lifting off the mast) Or is this not possible, unworkable? Safe Sailing Bill and once again thanks for your explanations. Extremely helpful. Eric sv Abayomi SM 158 Van: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> Namens Bill Kinney
Verzonden: zaterdag 15 oktober 2022 20:28
Aan: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Onderwerp: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] removal forestay & genoa profile My new ACMO turnbuckle was a larger diameter than the original ( my boat is 1994). So do check this as you may have to enlarge the hole in the plastic bottom plate!
This is very unfortunate to hear. The "Amel special" turnbuckle for under the genoa furler was one of the reasons to use ACMO rigging. Hopefully, it was just a one-time mistake by a stock clerk, and not a forgetting of the right way to assemble an Amel rig.
What makes this turnbuckle "special" is not the diameter, but rather its length--it is much shorter than a standard turnbuckle of the same diameter. Here is a photo of a fully "OEM" version of the furler and turnbuckle as installed by the Amel staff in Martinique this past year who replaced the entire head stay on this boat. The turnbuckle should not extend up inside the housing of the furler. Note also that in addition to the shorter turnbuckle, the threaded studs that go into it are significantly shorter than typical as well. This is one of the reasons why dealing with a rigger experienced with, and respectful of, Amel systems is important.
 
The photos in the original post by Eric above show several modifications made to force a fit with standard rigging parts. The turnbuckle shown is a lot longer than the Amel original, and the tie-plate is as well. Raising the furler by this much, means that the foil must have been cut shorter. Be aware when ordering sails for this boat, that the foil is not of the original length and needs to be measured to be sure the luff length of the sail's luff is correct. Standard length Amel sails MIGHT be too long.
The rolled edges on the longer tie-plate were added in an effort to keep the tie plate from bending. The ONLY reason these plates bend is because the boat is sailed with too little tension on the genoa halyard. This part should always be under tension. It is not designed to hold the furler, foil and sail up from the bottom while sailing.
Here is the process I use for disconnecting the headstay: - Remove the sail. This will make the entire process of removing and reinstalling MUCH easier.
- Mark the correct position of the turnbuckle so you can reset the length when things go back together. AND take a good close up picture in case the marks are lost!
- Tie the genoa halyard to the anchor roller, and pull it snug to support the mast while the halyard is disconnected. It doesn't need to be bar tight, there is no real load on things.
- Disconnect the motor wires from the box in the locker. Label or photograph the box before you disconnect things, so you get them back right. Pull the wires out of the tube. If some misguided soul used a polyurethane adhesive (instead of silicone) to seal the tube, you have my permission to cuss at him while you try to dig the wires out.
- Hitch the ballooner halyard to the foil, and tension it to support its weight.
- Disconnect the tie-plate from the chainplate. At this point, the ballooner halyard is holding up the furler and the foil. The foil can slide a few inches up the headstay if needed.
- Unscrew the turnbuckle until it comes apart. Have a helper holding the forestay, it's heavy. The forestay is now disconnected. Eric, on yours, you will want to mark the threads on the bottom of the turnbuckle at this point, so you know where to start the upper threads as things go together.
- Pull the clevis pin from the chainplate, and thread the turnbuckle and tis attached part back below the furler. This will keep the furler and foil from falling off the headstay while the mast is lifted.
To reinstall, do things in reverse, EXCEPT, thread the turnbuckle together just enough to hold, and then install the clevis pin that holds the forestay to the chainplate. then tension the turnbuckle to your marks and continue assembly.
Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Port Louis, Grenada
http://www.cruisingconsulting.com
-- Ross Hickey & Donna Hammond SV Intrepid Kiwi SM2K #356 Currently in Turkey
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