Topics

Rudder Stuffing Box Packing Material


Paul Stascavage
 

Good day all,

I recently ordered the packing material from AMEL.

I specifically requested:

"Quantity 2 - Package of 3 rings of packing material for the Rudder Post"

What I received was two individual lengths of material (70 cm each) - see attached photo.

My question is,  has AMEL switched to 1 piece of material rather than 3 or did I only receive 2 of the 3 rings?

I am hoping someone will be able to answer the question based on the length of material supplied (70 cm).

Thanks in advance for your replies.

All the best,

Paul Stascavage
SM #466 - s/v Rita Kathryn
On The Hard - Severn Yachting Center - Hayes, VA


www.RitaKathryn.com


eric freedman
 

I always received 3 individual pieces cut at a diagonal to the correct length.
Fair Winds.
Eric
SM 376 Kimberlite

On October 31, 2020 at 5:15 PM "Paul Stascavage via groups.io" <pstas2003@...> wrote:

Good day all,

I recently ordered the packing material from AMEL.

I specifically requested:

"Quantity 2 - Package of 3 rings of packing material for the Rudder Post"

What I received was two individual lengths of material (70 cm each) - see attached photo.

My question is,  has AMEL switched to 1 piece of material rather than 3 or did I only receive 2 of the 3 rings?

I am hoping someone will be able to answer the question based on the length of material supplied (70 cm).

Thanks in advance for your replies.

All the best,

Paul Stascavage
SM #466 - s/v Rita Kathryn
On The Hard - Severn Yachting Center - Hayes, VA


www.RitaKathryn.com

 


Karen Smith
 
Edited

One long piece spiraled around the shaft will most certainly NOT work.  If Amel is not cutting it to length for you, it kind of defeats the purpose of buying from them!

It needs to be accurately cut to length--exactly one shaft circumference.  I have cut mine straight, and that works.  A bevel is fine if you can do it accurately.  If you try to cut it yourself, it's a bad idea to cut it "a little long" and then trim it to exact length.  If you try to cut a millimeter or two off at a time it's very hard to keep the end from crushing and fraying, and that makes a bad fit, and a bad fit means leaks.

A good article on the details of how to cut it with some things that make a good (or bad!) job:  https://www.pumpsandsystems.com/what-are-key-steps-cutting-packing-optimum-performance

It's not rocket science, but it is technique sensitive.  You can use the rudder shaft to size the rings, but it is awkward at best and hard to do a good job.  

In my experience with this rudder shaft, and others, it takes some time for the packing to "settle in."  For the first couple days of active steering underway you will have to keep a close eye on it and be ready to tighten it further if it starts to drip--no matter how tight you think you got it on the first go.   After a few days of sailing it will likely be done, and will then be good for thousands of miles without further attention.

Bill Kinney
SM #160
Harmonie
Annapolis, MD.


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Karen,

I wrap the length around the rudder shaft and cut it on the diagonal. An alternative is to find a tube the same diameter and use that for your cutting template. I would not use a straight cut. Also when you fit the rings stagger the cuts. It doesn't need to be perfect to the mm as the crush effect on tightening seals it aided by the diagonal cut which by its very nature helps the seal, that's why the diagonal cut is the recommended method.

I have never had problems with initial leaking, once installed that is it. 

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 01 November 2020 at 12:28 "Karen Smith via groups.io" <karenharmonie@...> wrote:

One long piece spiraled around the shaft will most certainly NOT work.  If Amel is not cutting it to length for you, it kind of defeats the purpose of buying from them!

It needs to be accurately cut to length--exactly one shaft diameter.  I have cut mine straight, and that works.  A bevel is fine if you can do it accurately.  If you try to cut it yourself, it's a bad idea to cut it "a little long" and then trim it to exact length.  If you try to cut a millimeter or two off at a time it's very hard to keep the end from crushing and fraying, and that makes a bad fit, and a bad fit means leaks.

A good article on the details of how to cut it with some things that make a good (or bad!) job:   https://www.pumpsandsystems.com/what-are-key-steps-cutting-packing-optimum-performance

It's not rocket science, but it is technique sensitive.  You can use the rudder shaft to size the rings, but it is awkward at best and hard to do a good job.  

In my experience with this rudder shaft, and others, it takes some time for the packing to "settle in."  For the first couple days of active steering underway you will have to keep a close eye on it and be ready to tighten it further if it starts to drip--no matter how tight you think you got it on the first go.   After a few days of sailing it will likely be done, and will then be good for thousands of miles without further attention.

Bill Kinney
SM #160
Harmonie
Annapolis, MD.


Jarek Zemlo
 

Hi,

I purchased for my SM also 1 x 70cm from SAV AMEL. This is perfectly normal as the stuffing material is supplied in 1 single length that will have to be re-cut into 3 pieces.

Regards
Jarek Zemlo
S/Y NOA BLUE


Paul Stascavage
 

Eric, Bill, Danny, and Jarek,

Thank you for your replies.

I guess I’m going to have to cut the rings myself.

If anyone has any additional advice, I would greatly appreciate it.

All the best,

Paul Stascavage
SM #466 - s/v Rita Kathryn
On The Hard - Severn Yachting Center - Hayes, VA


www.RitaKathryn.com


 

C=pi*diameter

Measure the diameter

Length of packing=

(3.14159265359* diameter)

Let me know the answer. 😃

Best,

CW Bill Rouse 
Amel Owners Yacht School
+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com 
Yacht School Calendar: www.preparetocastoff.blogspot.com/p/calendar.html


   

On Sun, Nov 1, 2020, 1:45 PM Paul Stascavage via groups.io <pstas2003=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Eric, Bill, Danny, and Jarek,

Thank you for your replies.

I guess I’m going to have to cut the rings myself.

If anyone has any additional advice, I would greatly appreciate it.

All the best,

Paul Stascavage
SM #466 - s/v Rita Kathryn
On The Hard - Severn Yachting Center - Hayes, VA


www.RitaKathryn.com


Alan Leslie
 

You can buy stuffing box packing from any decent chandler, it's not Amel specific. 
We did ours 7 years ago and it hasn't leaked since.
Agree with Danny, used the shaft as a template, cut diagonally and it doesn't have to be dead on accurate, insert the three rings so the cuts are 120 degrees off from each other and you will have no problems.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Karen Smith
 

The exact metric size packing that Amel ships can be the very devil to source in the US, but the closest inch size works fine. If I recall Amel supplies 8mm packing, and 5/16 inch packing is within 1% of that.  But measure before you buy, my memory isn't 100% on 8mm or 10mm...

Far better to cut by wrapping it around the shaft than to do it by measure.  If you do perfectly square cuts on a length of packing exactly equal to the shaft OD, the cuts will gap apart on the outside of the packing with is significantly longer in circumference than the shaft.

Bill
Harmonie
SM160
Annapolis, MD.


Germain Jean-Pierre
 

Hello Paul,

It’s an easy task; arm yourself with a very sharp knife. Remove all the old packing. (I use a dental pick) Wrap the new material around the rudder shaft and cut diagonally at about 1 mm longer than needed. With a wooden block of suitable size (no wider than the groove), tamp down the first layer.  Add Teflon grease atop this first layer.  Do the same for the second layer ensuring the cut is 120 degrees away from the first cut.  

Idem. For 3rd layer.

Install the white nylon nut and tighten accordingly.  Sea trial when able… retighten if needed.


Jean-Pierre Germain,Eleuthera, SM007 New Zealand



On 2 Nov 2020, at 08:45, Paul Stascavage via groups.io <pstas2003@...> wrote:

Eric, Bill, Danny, and Jarek,

Thank you for your replies.

I guess I’m going to have to cut the rings myself.

If anyone has any additional advice, I would greatly appreciate it.

All the best,

Paul Stascavage
SM #466 - s/v Rita Kathryn
On The Hard - Severn Yachting Center - Hayes, VA


www.RitaKathryn.com


eric freedman
 

Did you speak with Amel and ask why the packing did not come in precut?
For the last 18 years mine was always precut.
Fair Winds,
Eric
SM 376 Kimberite

On November 1, 2020 at 2:45 PM "Paul Stascavage via groups.io" <pstas2003@...> wrote:

Eric, Bill, Danny, and Jarek,

Thank you for your replies.

I guess I’m going to have to cut the rings myself.

If anyone has any additional advice, I would greatly appreciate it.

All the best,

Paul Stascavage
SM #466 - s/v Rita Kathryn
On The Hard - Severn Yachting Center - Hayes, VA


www.RitaKathryn.com

 


Olaf Bauer
 

Hi Paul,

 

Here is how I did it:

 

For the shaft packing  I used 70cm of PTFE Flax shaft packing 5/16” which have to cut into three pieces. Cut the corners at an angle for a better sealing.

I never remember the length of each part but you can use the old packings or the hole for measurement.

When installing the new packing coat them with silicon grease.

 

 

When taking into place be sure that the cuts are as fare away from each other for better sealing:

See also https://amelyachtowners.groups.io/g/main/files/AMEL%20SM2K%20Rudder%20Removal

 

 

Fair winds

Olaf

 

S/V Katchopine, SM2K 392

currently in Trinidad

 

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Paul Stascavage via groups.io
Sent: Samstag, 31. Oktober 2020 17:15
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Rudder Stuffing Box Packing Material

 

Good day all,

I recently ordered the packing material from AMEL.

I specifically requested:

"Quantity 2 - Package of 3 rings of packing material for the Rudder Post"

What I received was two individual lengths of material (70 cm each) - see attached photo.

My question is,  has AMEL switched to 1 piece of material rather than 3 or did I only receive 2 of the 3 rings?

I am hoping someone will be able to answer the question based on the length of material supplied (70 cm).

Thanks in advance for your replies.

All the best,

Paul Stascavage
SM #466 - s/v Rita Kathryn
On The Hard - Severn Yachting Center - Hayes, VA


www.RitaKathryn.com


 

Eric,

I spoke to Amel. Yes, it has always come precut, but with some people recently retiring, some bits of previous and undocumented experience was lost. The new people did not have the correct length. I believe it is totally understandable and that we have been somewhat spoiled. I was also told by Amel SAV that the material is 8mmx8mm  or 5/16’’.

I asked Paul to use the formula Length = (diameter * pi) and to test this formula with a correct fit. When Paul has tested this, either Paul or I will post it here.

Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sun, Nov 1, 2020 at 9:05 PM eric freedman <kimberlite@...> wrote:
Did you speak with Amel and ask why the packing did not come in precut?
For the last 18 years mine was always precut.
Fair Winds,
Eric
SM 376 Kimberite

On November 1, 2020 at 2:45 PM "Paul Stascavage via groups.io" <pstas2003=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Eric, Bill, Danny, and Jarek,

Thank you for your replies.

I guess I’m going to have to cut the rings myself.

If anyone has any additional advice, I would greatly appreciate it.

All the best,

Paul Stascavage
SM #466 - s/v Rita Kathryn
On The Hard - Severn Yachting Center - Hayes, VA


www.RitaKathryn.com

 


Dan Carlson
 

That is what I received from Amel last month as well. 

I cut to length with diagonal cuts. Installed each piece offset about 120 degrees. Carefully pounding each piece down around the shaft.

Based on some other information I was very careful when tightening the ring back down to make sure that I did not strip out the threads. 

A few days of motorsailing down the calm Chesepeake and so far no drips. Will keep checking as we go offshore next. 

Best regards, Daniel and Lori Carlson on sv BeBe, SM #387



On Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 5:15 PM Paul Stascavage via groups.io <pstas2003=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Good day all,

I recently ordered the packing material from AMEL.

I specifically requested:

"Quantity 2 - Package of 3 rings of packing material for the Rudder Post"

What I received was two individual lengths of material (70 cm each) - see attached photo.

My question is,  has AMEL switched to 1 piece of material rather than 3 or did I only receive 2 of the 3 rings?

I am hoping someone will be able to answer the question based on the length of material supplied (70 cm).

Thanks in advance for your replies.

All the best,

Paul Stascavage
SM #466 - s/v Rita Kathryn
On The Hard - Severn Yachting Center - Hayes, VA


www.RitaKathryn.com


 

Dan,

According to Alban in Martinique, when new packing is installed, you will likely have to tighten in 30-60 days.

Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Mon, Nov 2, 2020 at 8:21 AM Dan Carlson <carlsdan61@...> wrote:
That is what I received from Amel last month as well. 

I cut to length with diagonal cuts. Installed each piece offset about 120 degrees. Carefully pounding each piece down around the shaft.

Based on some other information I was very careful when tightening the ring back down to make sure that I did not strip out the threads. 

A few days of motorsailing down the calm Chesepeake and so far no drips. Will keep checking as we go offshore next. 

Best regards, Daniel and Lori Carlson on sv BeBe, SM #387



On Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 5:15 PM Paul Stascavage via groups.io <pstas2003=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Good day all,

I recently ordered the packing material from AMEL.

I specifically requested:

"Quantity 2 - Package of 3 rings of packing material for the Rudder Post"

What I received was two individual lengths of material (70 cm each) - see attached photo.

My question is,  has AMEL switched to 1 piece of material rather than 3 or did I only receive 2 of the 3 rings?

I am hoping someone will be able to answer the question based on the length of material supplied (70 cm).

Thanks in advance for your replies.

All the best,

Paul Stascavage
SM #466 - s/v Rita Kathryn
On The Hard - Severn Yachting Center - Hayes, VA


www.RitaKathryn.com


Paul Stascavage
 

Bill R,

The diameter of the Rudder Shaft Post measured exactly 50 mm using a digital caliper which means the circumference should be 157.08 mm

The wealth of information on this forum never ceases to amaze me.

Thank you all for your knowledgeable and detailed responses.

All the best,

Paul Stascavage
SM #466 - s/v Rita Kathryn
On The Hard - Severn Yachting Center - Hayes, VA


www.RitaKathryn.com


 

Paul,

I assume that you tested the fit?
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Tue, Nov 3, 2020 at 7:50 AM Paul Stascavage via groups.io <pstas2003=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Bill R,

The diameter of the Rudder Shaft Post measured exactly 50 mm using a digital caliper which means the circumference should be 157.08 mm

The wealth of information on this forum never ceases to amaze me.

Thank you all for your knowledgeable and detailed responses.

All the best,

Paul Stascavage
SM #466 - s/v Rita Kathryn
On The Hard - Severn Yachting Center - Hayes, VA


www.RitaKathryn.com


Paul Stascavage
 

I haven’t gotten that far yet Bill.

Currently working on cleaning everything up.

I will report back when I do.

All the best,

Paul Stascavage
SM #466 - s/v Rita Kathryn
On The Hard - Severn Yachting Center - Hayes, VA


Alan Leslie
 

The shaft being 50mm in diameter means the circumference of the SHAFT is 157.08mm. 
The packing has to occupy the space between the shaft and the housing.
Given that the packing is 8mm, the actual length of the packing at the housing side would be about 207mm
If you cut your packing to 157.08 mm (good luck with that) I think you'll find it a bit short.  
The BEST way to do it is to wrap the packing around the shaft (or some other 50mm mandrill) and cut through it diagonally.
That way you get an almost perfect fit which will completely seal when it is compressed by the nut bearing down on it.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Paul Stascavage
 

Good day all,

I’m having difficulty removing the old packing material.  I was successful getting the top ring out albeit with much difficulty, but I can’t seem to make much headway with the second ring and I imagine the last one will be even more difficult.

I am using a straight pick to loosen the adherence of the material around the perimeter of the rudder post, but the hook picks I am using to try to remove the material are bending and breaking.

I am trying to be careful so as not to damage the threads for the lock not and wondering if anyone has any tricks or suggestions.

Thanking respondents in advance for their time and wisdom.


All the best,


Paul Stascavage
SM #466 - s/v Rita Kathryn
On The Hard - Severn Yachting Center - Hayes, VA