Sea Chest


Matt Salatino
 

How about a vent hose that ends high in the engine room, close to deck level, centered in the boat? This would allow the water level to stay at outside sea level.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Nov 27, 2020, at 10:21 PM, Karen Smith via groups.io <karenharmonie@...> wrote:

Mark,

That certainly addresses the problem of air in the seachest. Unfortunately, those of us with older SM models don't have that option since the washdown pump does not draw its water from the seachest.

Adding an "extra" pump just to suck out the air is one option, but seems to me a very inelegant one.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA


Karen Smith
 

Matt, 

Obviously great minds think alike. That is the approach I am most seriously considering. The devil is in the details but I’m thinking it’s the right direction to go.

Bill Kinney
sm160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA


Clive Chapman
 

Would an automatic vent from a central heating system help? Something like this: https://www.toolstation.com/reliance-automatic-air-vent-push-fit/p74735

Would need to find one that is seawater safe. 


Patrick McAneny
 

Bill, While sailing back from Bermuda on a starboard tack ,my gen set shut down several times,I found that there was no water in the strainer,taking off the cap allowed it to fill. What do you think about inserting a very small tube in the lid and run  it up under the cockpit floor ,maybe with a one way valve ,so that an air lock would not form. Just a thought.
Pat
SM #123


-----Original Message-----
From: Karen Smith via groups.io <karenharmonie@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Fri, Nov 27, 2020 4:34 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Sea Chest

Chris,

I have taken the photos and annotated them with the parts list.  

All of the fittings I used are standard NPT pipe fittings.  In the case of the outlet fitting on the strainer, that is actually a female 1-1/2” BSP thread.  In this size, the NPT and BSP threads are compatible enough that they will screw together just fine, but they will not make a reliable high pressure seal.  Don’t expect “teflon tape” to help here.  You’ll need paste type pipe sealant.  For the very low pressures seen here, it works fine despite the small mismatch in thread shapes..

We have been running this long enough now, we can confidently say that it works with no issues. Well, no issues that were not already there with the stock Amel manifold.

Here is the only problem we have with the “sea chest” design.  As we sail, air is entrained under the hull.  Some of this air finds the sea chest thruhull and rises into it, displacing the water.  If we are sailing fast, enough air comes through that in a very few hours the strainer and standpipe are empty of water. I am pretty confident that needing to purge this entrained air is the primary reason that the generators on Amel’s have such short lived raw water impellers.  I have a couple of ideas on how to improve this situation, but nothing ready to implement yet.

Our new generator has a hair trigger on its exhaust temperature shutdown which has made this problem more obvious.  Occasionally, and only when we are sailing, the high exhaust temp triggers a shut down right after it starts.  A second start try and it runs fine. If I crack the lid of the strainer and purge the air, it never happens. 

Short of closing the sea cock, I can’t think of a way to keep the air out, so I am trying to figure out a way to easily purge it.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA



Mark Erdos
 

The most effective way I have found to prevent air accumulation in the strainer it to install a one-way flow valve between the strainer and the sea-chest.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us

 

 


Sv Garulfo
 

hi Mark,

Can you expand on that idea? I don’t really see where that valve would be?

Bill, 
What do you think of a hose out of the Vetus lid, up over the water line and outputting in the cockpit drain (which is very nearby on the A54), with a one way valve to let accumulated air out into the cockpit drain but preventing any suction of air through there? 
Raw water consumers would pump sea water through the chest and strainer and any accumulated air (up to the waterline) would rejoin the atmosphere by simple gravity. 
Arguably, the rolling motion of the boat would continuously fill that one-way hose with sea water until it overflows in the drain. Also, removing the vetus lid for maintenance of he sea chest would be messier, having to deal with the water left in the hose. Maybe a Gardena type adapter to easily remove the hose from the lid even if it’s full. The same fitting could be used to feed the system fresh water for wintering like Arno did.

Any views ?

Thanks

Fair winds

Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Huahine, French Polynesia 



On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 at 11:28, Mark Erdos <mcerdos@...> wrote:

The most effective way I have found to prevent air accumulation in the strainer it to install a one-way flow valve between the strainer and the sea-chest.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us

 

 


 

That would certainly suck air into the strainer because the suction from various pumps would overcome a one-way valve. All of the one-way valves I am familiar with for water do not work well for air.

I am not sure what Mark is talking about because the sea chest contains the strainer.
image.png

image.png



CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Fri, Apr 9, 2021 at 6:19 PM Sv Garulfo <svgarulfo@...> wrote:
hi Mark,

Can you expand on that idea? I don’t really see where that valve would be?

Bill, 
What do you think of a hose out of the Vetus lid, up over the water line and outputting in the cockpit drain (which is very nearby on the A54), with a one way valve to let accumulated air out into the cockpit drain but preventing any suction of air through there? 
Raw water consumers would pump sea water through the chest and strainer and any accumulated air (up to the waterline) would rejoin the atmosphere by simple gravity. 
Arguably, the rolling motion of the boat would continuously fill that one-way hose with sea water until it overflows in the drain. Also, removing the vetus lid for maintenance of he sea chest would be messier, having to deal with the water left in the hose. Maybe a Gardena type adapter to easily remove the hose from the lid even if it’s full. The same fitting could be used to feed the system fresh water for wintering like Arno did.

Any views ?

Thanks

Fair winds

Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Huahine, French Polynesia 



On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 at 11:28, Mark Erdos <mcerdos@...> wrote:

The most effective way I have found to prevent air accumulation in the strainer it to install a one-way flow valve between the strainer and the sea-chest.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us

 

 


Mark Erdos
 

I have a one-way flap valve between the manifold and the sea-chest/strainer. It is not possible for water to easily flow backward toward the sea-chest even if the engine or genset pulls water faster than the strainer can provide (if dirty). This ensures my pumps for AC, water makers and heads remain primed and I get no air in the sea-chest. The original was brass and I upgraded to stainless when I rebuilt the manifold.

 

Check valves - Check valves manufacturer - SIO

 

 

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse
Sent: Friday, April 9, 2021 2:40 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Sea Chest

 

That would certainly suck air into the strainer because the suction from various pumps would overcome a one-way valve. All of the one-way valves I am familiar with for water do not work well for air.

 

I am not sure what Mark is talking about because the sea chest contains the strainer.

image.png

 

image.png

 

 

 

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

 

View My Training Calendar

 

 

On Fri, Apr 9, 2021 at 6:19 PM Sv Garulfo <svgarulfo@...> wrote:

hi Mark,

 

Can you expand on that idea? I don’t really see where that valve would be?

 

Bill, 

What do you think of a hose out of the Vetus lid, up over the water line and outputting in the cockpit drain (which is very nearby on the A54), with a one way valve to let accumulated air out into the cockpit drain but preventing any suction of air through there? 

Raw water consumers would pump sea water through the chest and strainer and any accumulated air (up to the waterline) would rejoin the atmosphere by simple gravity. 

Arguably, the rolling motion of the boat would continuously fill that one-way hose with sea water until it overflows in the drain. Also, removing the vetus lid for maintenance of he sea chest would be messier, having to deal with the water left in the hose. Maybe a Gardena type adapter to easily remove the hose from the lid even if it’s full. The same fitting could be used to feed the system fresh water for wintering like Arno did.

 

Any views ?

 

Thanks

 

Fair winds

 

Thomas

GARULFO 

A54-122

Huahine, French Polynesia 

 

 

 

On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 at 11:28, Mark Erdos <mcerdos@...> wrote:

The most effective way I have found to prevent air accumulation in the strainer it to install a one-way flow valve between the strainer and the sea-chest.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us

 

 


 

Mark,

That brass one-valve was not original. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse 
Amel Owners Yacht School
+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com 
Yacht School Calendar: www.preparetocastoff.blogspot.com/p/calendar.html


   


On Fri, Apr 9, 2021, 10:48 PM Mark Erdos <mcerdos@...> wrote:

I have a one-way flap valve between the manifold and the sea-chest/strainer. It is not possible for water to easily flow backward toward the sea-chest even if the engine or genset pulls water faster than the strainer can provide (if dirty). This ensures my pumps for AC, water makers and heads remain primed and I get no air in the sea-chest. The original was brass and I upgraded to stainless when I rebuilt the manifold.

 

 

 

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse
Sent: Friday, April 9, 2021 2:40 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Sea Chest

 

That would certainly suck air into the strainer because the suction from various pumps would overcome a one-way valve. All of the one-way valves I am familiar with for water do not work well for air.

 

I am not sure what Mark is talking about because the sea chest contains the strainer.

 

 

 

 

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

 

View My Training Calendar

 

 

On Fri, Apr 9, 2021 at 6:19 PM Sv Garulfo <svgarulfo@...> wrote:

hi Mark,

 

Can you expand on that idea? I don’t really see where that valve would be?

 

Bill, 

What do you think of a hose out of the Vetus lid, up over the water line and outputting in the cockpit drain (which is very nearby on the A54), with a one way valve to let accumulated air out into the cockpit drain but preventing any suction of air through there? 

Raw water consumers would pump sea water through the chest and strainer and any accumulated air (up to the waterline) would rejoin the atmosphere by simple gravity. 

Arguably, the rolling motion of the boat would continuously fill that one-way hose with sea water until it overflows in the drain. Also, removing the vetus lid for maintenance of he sea chest would be messier, having to deal with the water left in the hose. Maybe a Gardena type adapter to easily remove the hose from the lid even if it’s full. The same fitting could be used to feed the system fresh water for wintering like Arno did.

 

Any views ?

 

Thanks

 

Fair winds

 

Thomas

GARULFO 

A54-122

Huahine, French Polynesia 

 

 

 

On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 at 11:28, Mark Erdos <mcerdos@...> wrote:

The most effective way I have found to prevent air accumulation in the strainer it to install a one-way flow valve between the strainer and the sea-chest.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us

 

 


Sv Garulfo
 

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the clarification. I can see how it would help keeping units downstream of the manifold primed. A54 (at least ours, but I believe all) have a check valve in front of the anchor wash pump, although it’s prone to clogging open and fail, like I described in post
Incidentally, it has failed again a few months after I had cleaned it, so I probably need to change it. The symptoms (squirting in the cockpit drain) reappeared and I resorted to grey tape the anchor wash outlet as a temporary measure, which stopped the squirting immediately. 

Having said that, your device doesn’t help purging out  air accumulated in the seachest through the thruhull, because of air bubbles or a deep roll while sailing. That accumulated air still needs to be evacuated through the raw water consumers. On the A54 the fridge circulation pump usually does that job. 


Best,
Thomas
GARULFO 
A54-122
Huahine, French Polynesia 


On 10 Apr 2021, at 01:53, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:

Mark,

That brass one-valve was not original. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse 
Amel Owners Yacht School
+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com 
Yacht School Calendar: www.preparetocastoff.blogspot.com/p/calendar.html


   

On Fri, Apr 9, 2021, 10:48 PM Mark Erdos <mcerdos@...> wrote:

I have a one-way flap valve between the manifold and the sea-chest/strainer. It is not possible for water to easily flow backward toward the sea-chest even if the engine or genset pulls water faster than the strainer can provide (if dirty). This ensures my pumps for AC, water makers and heads remain primed and I get no air in the sea-chest. The original was brass and I upgraded to stainless when I rebuilt the manifold.

 

Check valves - Check valves manufacturer - SIO

 

 

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse
Sent: Friday, April 9, 2021 2:40 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Sea Chest

 

That would certainly suck air into the strainer because the suction from various pumps would overcome a one-way valve. All of the one-way valves I am familiar with for water do not work well for air.

 

I am not sure what Mark is talking about because the sea chest contains the strainer.

image.png

 

image.png

 

 

 

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

 

View My Training Calendar

 

 

On Fri, Apr 9, 2021 at 6:19 PM Sv Garulfo <svgarulfo@...> wrote:

hi Mark,

 

Can you expand on that idea? I don’t really see where that valve would be?

 

Bill, 

What do you think of a hose out of the Vetus lid, up over the water line and outputting in the cockpit drain (which is very nearby on the A54), with a one way valve to let accumulated air out into the cockpit drain but preventing any suction of air through there? 

Raw water consumers would pump sea water through the chest and strainer and any accumulated air (up to the waterline) would rejoin the atmosphere by simple gravity. 

Arguably, the rolling motion of the boat would continuously fill that one-way hose with sea water until it overflows in the drain. Also, removing the vetus lid for maintenance of he sea chest would be messier, having to deal with the water left in the hose. Maybe a Gardena type adapter to easily remove the hose from the lid even if it’s full. The same fitting could be used to feed the system fresh water for wintering like Arno did.

 

Any views ?

 

Thanks

 

Fair winds

 

Thomas

GARULFO 

A54-122

Huahine, French Polynesia 

 

 

 

On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 at 11:28, Mark Erdos <mcerdos@...> wrote:

The most effective way I have found to prevent air accumulation in the strainer it to install a one-way flow valve between the strainer and the sea-chest.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us