SM winch motor brushes


Mike Ondra
 

Our starboard foresail winch has started to complain. After servicing the above deck hardware it sounded better but still a bit more growly than normal. Suspecting the motor brushes. Not having had experience servicing this motor, I am anticipating, as with other first time servicing projects, that it may not go smoothly. If indeed brush replacement is likely, I would like to have the brushes in hand while things are apart. We do have spare brushes for the furling motors. It would be nice if the winch motors utilized the same brushes. Can anyone confirm the specifics of the winch motor brushes?

Thanks,

Mike Ondra

Aletes SM240

Rock Hall, MD


Bill Kinney
 

Mike,

The chances of the furling motor and the winch motor sharing brushes is vanishingly small.  not QUITE zero... but very close.  The electric winches were supplied by Lewmar (they are not an Amel specific part). On our boat, the winch drive motor and gearbox were made by Bonfiglioli, while the furling motors are Leroy Somers.  If your boat has the Bonfiglioli furling motors, the chances go up by a tiny bit... I do not know if Lewmar used exactly the same motors throughout the production run for these winches.

I haven’t had the opportunity to pull apart the motors for the winches, so can’t help with the details.  Like the furling motors, these motors and gearboxes are standard industrial parts.  If you can read the motor label ahead of time, you can pre-order the brushes.  If that’s not possible, once you have the old brushes in hand and can measure them, you can almost always get them from Grainger, or one of the companies who specialize in motor brushes.

We have found that all of the Lewmar dealers and distributors in the USA (including Lewmar USA) were pretty helpless as far as helping us with parts for these winches.  Nobody we talked to had the information about how the parts for the electric version was different from the the much more common manual version. We ended up getting our parts from Ocean Chandlery in the UK.  They immediately knew and understood exactly what we needed.

And in the “for what it is worth” department:  On Leroy Somers motors used in the main sail furling system:  Leroy Somers changed the design of the motor several years ago, but KEPT EXACTLY THE SAME PART NUMBER.  The new motor has the same electrical and power specifications, bolts in place and works fine, but is a slightly smaller diameter, and, most importantly, has a completely different design for the brushes.  If you order brushes based on the part number, it is a tossup on getting the right part!  Just a heads up that having the brushes in hand and ordering based on dimensions is sometimes the best thing to do.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Eleuthera, BS


Mike Ondra
 



It would appear that removing to service the motor/gearbox assembly for the winch may be challenging. I am reticent to disturb the bedding and other sealant damages that could occur with removal when I’m not certain that there is a problem in the first place.. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it. It just doesn’t sound quite right.
There are some drops of oil on the bottom of the gearbox which are some concern. But no evidence of drips below the gearbox on the headliner. Does anyone know if there are brushes in this motor? 


On Jun 2, 2021, at 3:23 PM, Mike Ondra via groups.io <mdondra@...> wrote:



Our starboard foresail winch has started to complain. After servicing the above deck hardware it sounded better but still a bit more growly than normal. Suspecting the motor brushes. Not having had experience servicing this motor, I am anticipating, as with other first time servicing projects, that it may not go smoothly. If indeed brush replacement is likely, I would like to have the brushes in hand while things are apart. We do have spare brushes for the furling motors. It would be nice if the winch motors utilized the same brushes. Can anyone confirm the specifics of the winch motor brushes?

Thanks,

Mike Ondra

Aletes SM240

Rock Hall, MD


Mike Ondra
 

I couldn’t help myself.  Pulled the motor apart. Indeed there are four brushes. Here’s some pics for anyone who’s interested. Small amount of oil in the bottom of the motor housing that dripped out when the bottom bolt was extracted. Didn’t seem to be enough to impede anything electrical.


On Jun 7, 2021, at 2:58 PM, Mike Ondra via groups.io <mdondra@...> wrote:


<image0.jpeg>
<image1.jpeg>
<image2.jpeg>


It would appear that removing to service the motor/gearbox assembly for the winch may be challenging. I am reticent to disturb the bedding and other sealant damages that could occur with removal when I’m not certain that there is a problem in the first place.. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it. It just doesn’t sound quite right.
There are some drops of oil on the bottom of the gearbox which are some concern. But no evidence of drips below the gearbox on the headliner. Does anyone know if there are brushes in this motor? 
<image3.jpeg>


On Jun 2, 2021, at 3:23 PM, Mike Ondra via groups.io <mdondra@...> wrote:



Our starboard foresail winch has started to complain. After servicing the above deck hardware it sounded better but still a bit more growly than normal. Suspecting the motor brushes. Not having had experience servicing this motor, I am anticipating, as with other first time servicing projects, that it may not go smoothly. If indeed brush replacement is likely, I would like to have the brushes in hand while things are apart. We do have spare brushes for the furling motors. It would be nice if the winch motors utilized the same brushes. Can anyone confirm the specifics of the winch motor brushes?

Thanks,

Mike Ondra

Aletes SM240

Rock Hall, MD


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Mike. warning warning warning. The small amount of oil will multiply if you don't deal with the cause. When it multiplies the resulting shorting will do very nasty things to your motor. I had to replace mine. The gearbox is oil filled. You need to separate the motor from the gearbox and replace the lip seal. I did the job on both winches. Not difficult. I took the side plate off the gearbox that the seal is located in and pressed it out. Easier than trying to hook it out. An aside. I was astounded when I needed the new motor. Lewmar in Auckland New Zealand had the identical unit on the shelf.

Kind Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 08 June 2021 at 07:16 "Mike Ondra via groups.io" <mdondra@...> wrote:

I couldn’t help myself.  Pulled the motor apart. Indeed there are four brushes. Here’s some pics for anyone who’s interested. Small amount of oil in the bottom of the motor housing that dripped out when the bottom bolt was extracted. Didn’t seem to be enough to impede anything electrical.

 

On Jun 7, 2021, at 2:58 PM, Mike Ondra via groups.io <mdondra@...> wrote:

<image0.jpeg>
<image1.jpeg>
<image2.jpeg>


It would appear that removing to service the motor/gearbox assembly for the winch may be challenging. I am reticent to disturb the bedding and other sealant damages that could occur with removal when I’m not certain that there is a problem in the first place.. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it. It just doesn’t sound quite right.
There are some drops of oil on the bottom of the gearbox which are some concern. But no evidence of drips below the gearbox on the headliner. Does anyone know if there are brushes in this motor? 
<image3.jpeg>

 

On Jun 2, 2021, at 3:23 PM, Mike Ondra via groups.io <mdondra@...> wrote:

Our starboard foresail winch has started to complain. After servicing the above deck hardware it sounded better but still a bit more growly than normal. Suspecting the motor brushes. Not having had experience servicing this motor, I am anticipating, as with other first time servicing projects, that it may not go smoothly. If indeed brush replacement is likely, I would like to have the brushes in hand while things are apart. We do have spare brushes for the furling motors. It would be nice if the winch motors utilized the same brushes. Can anyone confirm the specifics of the winch motor brushes?

Thanks,

Mike Ondra

Aletes SM240

Rock Hall, MD


 


 


Mike Ondra
 

Thanks Danny. Did you replace the seals with the gearbox in place above the pilot birth or did you remove it so you could do the work in the more humane position? If removed what did you get into in separating the below deck assembly from the above deck assembly?
Mike
Aletes SM240
Chesapeake

On Jun 7, 2021, at 3:46 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:



Hi Mike. warning warning warning. The small amount of oil will multiply if you don't deal with the cause. When it multiplies the resulting shorting will do very nasty things to your motor. I had to replace mine. The gearbox is oil filled. You need to separate the motor from the gearbox and replace the lip seal. I did the job on both winches. Not difficult. I took the side plate off the gearbox that the seal is located in and pressed it out. Easier than trying to hook it out. An aside. I was astounded when I needed the new motor. Lewmar in Auckland New Zealand had the identical unit on the shelf.

Kind Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 08 June 2021 at 07:16 "Mike Ondra via groups.io" <mdondra@...> wrote:

I couldn’t help myself.  Pulled the motor apart. Indeed there are four brushes. Here’s some pics for anyone who’s interested. Small amount of oil in the bottom of the motor housing that dripped out when the bottom bolt was extracted. Didn’t seem to be enough to impede anything electrical.
<image0.jpeg>
<image1.jpeg>
<image2.jpeg>

 

On Jun 7, 2021, at 2:58 PM, Mike Ondra via groups.io <mdondra@...> wrote:

<image0.jpeg>
<image1.jpeg>
<image2.jpeg>


It would appear that removing to service the motor/gearbox assembly for the winch may be challenging. I am reticent to disturb the bedding and other sealant damages that could occur with removal when I’m not certain that there is a problem in the first place.. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it. It just doesn’t sound quite right.
There are some drops of oil on the bottom of the gearbox which are some concern. But no evidence of drips below the gearbox on the headliner. Does anyone know if there are brushes in this motor? 
<image3.jpeg>

 

On Jun 2, 2021, at 3:23 PM, Mike Ondra via groups.io <mdondra@...> wrote:

Our starboard foresail winch has started to complain. After servicing the above deck hardware it sounded better but still a bit more growly than normal. Suspecting the motor brushes. Not having had experience servicing this motor, I am anticipating, as with other first time servicing projects, that it may not go smoothly. If indeed brush replacement is likely, I would like to have the brushes in hand while things are apart. We do have spare brushes for the furling motors. It would be nice if the winch motors utilized the same brushes. Can anyone confirm the specifics of the winch motor brushes?

Thanks,

Mike Ondra

Aletes SM240

Rock Hall, MD


 


 


eric freedman
 

Mike,

On a different issue on the winch. My problem was that the bolts holding the motor and gearbox to the bottom of the winch sheared off. I replaced them with stronger bolts and used locktite.

My main problem was reinstalling the winch. It is heavy to hold over my head and try to index the bolt holes. I resorted to cutting the heads of 2 longer bolts and inserted them into the motor flange. It was then very easy to install the motor by inserting the longer cut off bolts into the underside of the winch.

While you have everything apart you might replace the lip seal in the bottom of the winch and the thin plastic washer that separates the motor from the winch.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io On Behalf Of Bill Kinney
Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2021 11:17 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] SM winch motor brushes

 

Mike,

The chances of the furling motor and the winch motor sharing brushes is vanishingly small.  not QUITE zero... but very close.  The electric winches were supplied by Lewmar (they are not an Amel specific part). On our boat, the winch drive motor and gearbox were made by Bonfiglioli, while the furling motors are Leroy Somers.  If your boat has the Bonfiglioli furling motors, the chances go up by a tiny bit... I do not know if Lewmar used exactly the same motors throughout the production run for these winches.

I haven’t had the opportunity to pull apart the motors for the winches, so can’t help with the details.  Like the furling motors, these motors and gearboxes are standard industrial parts.  If you can read the motor label ahead of time, you can pre-order the brushes.  If that’s not possible, once you have the old brushes in hand and can measure them, you can almost always get them from Grainger, or one of the companies who specialize in motor brushes.

We have found that all of the Lewmar dealers and distributors in the USA (including Lewmar USA) were pretty helpless as far as helping us with parts for these winches.  Nobody we talked to had the information about how the parts for the electric version was different from the the much more common manual version. We ended up getting our parts from Ocean Chandlery in the UK.  They immediately knew and understood exactly what we needed.

And in the “for what it is worth” department:  On Leroy Somers motors used in the main sail furling system:  Leroy Somers changed the design of the motor several years ago, but KEPT EXACTLY THE SAME PART NUMBER.  The new motor has the same electrical and power specifications, bolts in place and works fine, but is a slightly smaller diameter, and, most importantly, has a completely different design for the brushes.  If you order brushes based on the part number, it is a tossup on getting the right part!  Just a heads up that having the brushes in hand and ordering based on dimensions is sometimes the best thing to do.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Eleuthera, BS


eric freedman
 

Hi Mike,

If you have not already dome it, it is easy to remove the entire motor and gearbox.

Just remove the wires to the motor and tape them up.  If you then reach up to the top of the motor, you will feel 4 bolts. If I remember correctly you will need a short wrench.

If you remove them the motor assembly drops down and can be serviced.

Please see my previous note for installation. Also replace part #11 a plastic shim.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

The drawing for the winch

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io On Behalf Of Mike Ondra via groups.io
Sent: Monday, June 07, 2021 4:10 PM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] SM winch motor brushes

 

Thanks Danny. Did you replace the seals with the gearbox in place above the pilot birth or did you remove it so you could do the work in the more humane position? If removed what did you get into in separating the below deck assembly from the above deck assembly?
Mike

Aletes SM240

Chesapeake



On Jun 7, 2021, at 3:46 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:



Hi Mike. warning warning warning. The small amount of oil will multiply if you don't deal with the cause. When it multiplies the resulting shorting will do very nasty things to your motor. I had to replace mine. The gearbox is oil filled. You need to separate the motor from the gearbox and replace the lip seal. I did the job on both winches. Not difficult. I took the side plate off the gearbox that the seal is located in and pressed it out. Easier than trying to hook it out. An aside. I was astounded when I needed the new motor. Lewmar in Auckland New Zealand had the identical unit on the shelf.

Kind Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 08 June 2021 at 07:16 "Mike Ondra via groups.io" <mdondra@...> wrote:

I couldn’t help myself.  Pulled the motor apart. Indeed there are four brushes. Here’s some pics for anyone who’s interested. Small amount of oil in the bottom of the motor housing that dripped out when the bottom bolt was extracted. Didn’t seem to be enough to impede anything electrical.

<image0.jpeg>

<image1.jpeg>

<image2.jpeg>

 

 



On Jun 7, 2021, at 2:58 PM, Mike Ondra via groups.io <mdondra@...> wrote:

<image0.jpeg>

<image1.jpeg>

<image2.jpeg>



It would appear that removing to service the motor/gearbox assembly for the winch may be challenging. I am reticent to disturb the bedding and other sealant damages that could occur with removal when I’m not certain that there is a problem in the first place.. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it. It just doesn’t sound quite right.

There are some drops of oil on the bottom of the gearbox which are some concern. But no evidence of drips below the gearbox on the headliner. Does anyone know if there are brushes in this motor? 

<image3.jpeg>

 

 



On Jun 2, 2021, at 3:23 PM, Mike Ondra via groups.io <mdondra@...> wrote:

Our starboard foresail winch has started to complain. After servicing the above deck hardware it sounded better but still a bit more growly than normal. Suspecting the motor brushes. Not having had experience servicing this motor, I am anticipating, as with other first time servicing projects, that it may not go smoothly. If indeed brush replacement is likely, I would like to have the brushes in hand while things are apart. We do have spare brushes for the furling motors. It would be nice if the winch motors utilized the same brushes. Can anyone confirm the specifics of the winch motor brushes?

Thanks,

Mike Ondra

Aletes SM240

Rock Hall, MD


 


 


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Mike. Eric has already answered the temoval question. It took me no more than 10 minutes once I had cleared the locker. When you have separated the motor from the gear box take the plate with the lip seal  off the gearbox. Be sure to have it on the upside. The gearbox is totally full of oil. I pressed the seal out. Got a new one and pressed it in. Then reasembled. Straightforward job.

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 11 June 2021 at 08:40 eric freedman <kimberlite@...> wrote:

Hi Mike,

If you have not already dome it, it is easy to remove the entire motor and gearbox.

Just remove the wires to the motor and tape them up.  If you then reach up to the top of the motor, you will feel 4 bolts. If I remember correctly you will need a short wrench.

If you remove them the motor assembly drops down and can be serviced.

Please see my previous note for installation. Also replace part #11 a plastic shim.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

The drawing for the winch

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io On Behalf Of Mike Ondra via groups.io
Sent: Monday, June 07, 2021 4:10 PM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] SM winch motor brushes

 

Thanks Danny. Did you replace the seals with the gearbox in place above the pilot birth or did you remove it so you could do the work in the more humane position? If removed what did you get into in separating the below deck assembly from the above deck assembly?
Mike

Aletes SM240

Chesapeake



On Jun 7, 2021, at 3:46 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:

 

Hi Mike. warning warning warning. The small amount of oil will multiply if you don't deal with the cause. When it multiplies the resulting shorting will do very nasty things to your motor. I had to replace mine. The gearbox is oil filled. You need to separate the motor from the gearbox and replace the lip seal. I did the job on both winches. Not difficult. I took the side plate off the gearbox that the seal is located in and pressed it out. Easier than trying to hook it out. An aside. I was astounded when I needed the new motor. Lewmar in Auckland New Zealand had the identical unit on the shelf.

Kind Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 08 June 2021 at 07:16 "Mike Ondra via groups.io" <mdondra@...> wrote:

I couldn’t help myself.  Pulled the motor apart. Indeed there are four brushes. Here’s some pics for anyone who’s interested. Small amount of oil in the bottom of the motor housing that dripped out when the bottom bolt was extracted. Didn’t seem to be enough to impede anything electrical.

<image0.jpeg>

<image1.jpeg>

<image2.jpeg>

 

 



On Jun 7, 2021, at 2:58 PM, Mike Ondra via groups.io <mdondra@...> wrote:

<image0.jpeg>

<image1.jpeg>

<image2.jpeg>



It would appear that removing to service the motor/gearbox assembly for the winch may be challenging. I am reticent to disturb the bedding and other sealant damages that could occur with removal when I’m not certain that there is a problem in the first place.. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it. It just doesn’t sound quite right.

There are some drops of oil on the bottom of the gearbox which are some concern. But no evidence of drips below the gearbox on the headliner. Does anyone know if there are brushes in this motor? 

<image3.jpeg>

 

 



On Jun 2, 2021, at 3:23 PM, Mike Ondra via groups.io <mdondra@...> wrote:

Our starboard foresail winch has started to complain. After servicing the above deck hardware it sounded better but still a bit more growly than normal. Suspecting the motor brushes. Not having had experience servicing this motor, I am anticipating, as with other first time servicing projects, that it may not go smoothly. If indeed brush replacement is likely, I would like to have the brushes in hand while things are apart. We do have spare brushes for the furling motors. It would be nice if the winch motors utilized the same brushes. Can anyone confirm the specifics of the winch motor brushes?

Thanks,

Mike Ondra

Aletes SM240

Rock Hall, MD