Spinnaker pole strut mast fitting ball joint replacement? #replacement


Kevin Schmit
 

Hey Amelians,

We had an accidental gybe while sailing downwind at night in 30 knot winds and as you can imagine the outcome wasn’t pretty... I’ve emailed Amel a couple days ago but haven’t gotten a reply yet.  Has anyone sourced replacement ball joint that mates the mast to spinnaker pole strut?  Pictures below



--
Kevin & Kristen Schmit
KIANA
SM #362


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Folks,

This message concerns me. It comes after Delos reported on a near disaster while sailing downwind in gale force winds. As in this case they had the headsail poled out. Both vessels had bad outcomes with gear breakage. The Amel handbook recommends limiting these systems to 20 knots true wind. Down wind in big seas vessels, even Amels can yaw and swing, particularly if there is a big sea running. 

In both these cases when the wind wrong sided the sail serious damage occurred. In conjunction with this damage severe sideways forces would have been applied to the mast. Neither damaged the mast but in my opinion the strong possibility was there.

Of such errors are disasters made.

However these were both wind events. Consider the loading had the boat rolled at the same time as a big sea came up along side and the pole had dipped in the water. Delos was doing over 15 knots at times. We need to be aware of the risks of long poles fixed out at right angles to the boat and take them in in strong winds.

Just my opinion

Regards

Danny 

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 07 May 2021 at 21:18 Kevin Schmit <kevschmit64@...> wrote:

Hey Amelians,

We had an accidental gybe while sailing downwind at night in 30 knot winds and as you can imagine the outcome wasn’t pretty... I’ve emailed Amel a couple days ago but haven’t gotten a reply yet.  Has anyone sourced replacement ball joint that mates the mast to spinnaker pole strut?  Pictures below



--
Kevin & Kristen Schmit
KIANA
SM #362


 

Here is a snippet from my book. 

Pole ends were made by FranceSpar, now www.SpaceCraft.fr, also in the US www.sparcraft-us.com. I am not sure if that company made the entire system for Amel. Amel recently made a new set of poles for a SM for a client of mine. Amel may be the best place to source that ball end because when I searched www.sparcraft-us.com I could not find this part. If you do not hear from SAV@... in a few days, call them at 33  5 46 55 17 31. 

I assume that you sent a photo with your request and that your request asked for availability and price...if not, it should have.

image.png
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 4:18 AM Kevin Schmit <kevschmit64@...> wrote:
Hey Amelians,

We had an accidental gybe while sailing downwind at night in 30 knot winds and as you can imagine the outcome wasn’t pretty... I’ve emailed Amel a couple days ago but haven’t gotten a reply yet.  Has anyone sourced replacement ball joint that mates the mast to spinnaker pole strut?  Pictures below



--
Kevin & Kristen Schmit
KIANA
SM #362


karkauai
 

A few years ago I was sailing N in the Gulf Stream in 20kts from astern.  In the middle of the night with no warning (it was a moonless night with no lightning observed) we were suddenly in 35+ kts from 40d off the starboard stern.  The seas rapidly grew from 5-6 ft to 8-10 ft.  I turned directly downwind and furled the headsails together to about 10%.  But before I could muster the crew and get the poles down, we rolled and caught the tip of the port pole in the water.  It shattered the forward guy block, and the pole came whipping back alongside the dodger. No damage there, but potentially an even worse problem than we had.

The problem was a thunder storm that must have formed right over us, or just didn't have any lightning.  That was before I got my new Radar, and I didn't use it at night unless I saw a specific need.

So now I take the poles down at night, and run the radar at night.  In any choppy seas over 4-5 ft, I raise the end of the poles a couple of feet above horizontal.

Kent
SM 243 Kristy
Preparing to sail to Maine in early June

--
Kent & Iris
KRISTY
SM243


Kevin Schmit
 

I checked with Sparcraft and they only made some of the components of the Amel spinnaker pole system. They had never seen the ball joint fitting before.

I did provide pics along with my email to Amel. I’ll give them a few more days to respond.

As always, I appreciate the feedback and support this group always provides when looking for sage advice.

Kevin Schmit
Portsmouth, NH


--
Kevin & Kristen Schmit
KIANA
SM #362


 

Kevin,

If I were you and because this is the only part of the pole system that will suffer from UV degradation, I would take the other "good" ball off of the short pole and bring it to a machine shop and have it duplicated using solid aluminum.

Actually, every SM owner should probably consider this.

image.png
 
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 8:46 AM Kevin Schmit <kevschmit64@...> wrote:
I checked with Sparcraft and they only made some of the components of the Amel spinnaker pole system.  They had never seen the ball joint fitting before.

I did provide pics along with my email to Amel.  I’ll give them a few more days to respond.

As always,  I appreciate the feedback and support this group always provides when looking for sage advice.

Kevin Schmit
Portsmouth, NH


--
Kevin & Kristen Schmit
KIANA
SM #362






Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Kent, thanks for the story. You did everything right but still got caught. The forward block blowing saved much more serious damage. Shows the value of a weak point with lesser damage potential. Raising the pole ends when the sea is up is a sensible precaution, actually advised in the Amel hand book.

Kind Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 08 May 2021 at 00:59 "karkauai via groups.io" <karkauai@...> wrote:

A few years ago I was sailing N in the Gulf Stream in 20kts from astern.  In the middle of the night with no warning (it was a moonless night with no lightning observed) we were suddenly in 35+ kts from 40d off the starboard stern.  The seas rapidly grew from 5-6 ft to 8-10 ft.  I turned directly downwind and furled the headsails together to about 10%.  But before I could muster the crew and get the poles down, we rolled and caught the tip of the port pole in the water.  It shattered the forward guy block, and the pole came whipping back alongside the dodger. No damage there, but potentially an even worse problem than we had.

The problem was a thunder storm that must have formed right over us, or just didn't have any lightning.  That was before I got my new Radar, and I didn't use it at night unless I saw a specific need.

So now I take the poles down at night, and run the radar at night.  In any choppy seas over 4-5 ft, I raise the end of the poles a couple of feet above horizontal.

Kent
SM 243 Kristy
Preparing to sail to Maine in early June

--
Kent & Iris
KRISTY
SM243


Kevin Schmit
 

Excellent suggestion Bill. Thank you all who weighed in on support of this topic.

Kevin


--
Kevin & Kristen Schmit
KIANA
SM #362


Steve Bell
 

Hi
     We had two made up by sparcraft in South Africa  when our pole was damaged kept one as  spare,   we just gave them the broken one and they replicated it their machine shop in a couple of hours .

Regards

Steve
Dusk S/M 378


Steve Bell
 

I was also advised to  ensure I use Monel rivets when replacing the part.

Regards

Steve
Dusk S/M 378


Ken Powers SV Aquarius <ken@...>
 
Edited

To all,

First thing, everyone that had the ball breaking problem with their pole systems, had their poles where they didn't belong (no pun intended).  My previous owner also blew out a ball on the Pacific Crossing in 2001 (that was when the boat was only 2 years old).  This tells me it's not that your balls got too much sun without the proper protection (I think the Aussie's say it best, Slip-Slop-Slap, or something like that.).  What it really sez to me,  your balls are the systems weak link. 

As someone else kind-of mentioned.  Henri Amel was a pretty good sailor, and had some pretty good engineers designing his yachts.  Just like the mouse you use to lock your ballooner to the top of the forestay, if you make the weak link out of a stronger material you may just change the breakage POINT, but still have a failure.  The question is... Where is the next failure point?  Could it be your entire rig (that would be a failure of your biggest pole, and an impotent boat entering port may deflate your ego for a very.. very.... long time)?  

Be very careful when changing the material of the systems weak link.  Don't change your mouse to aluminum, because if you make a mistake (AGAIN), it ain't goin' to be pretty!  I don't know where the next weak-link in the pole system would be, but, me,  I don't want to find out.  

Just something to think about,

Ken Powers
Sailing Aquarius
SM2K#262


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

With you on that Ken.

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 09 May 2021 at 14:10 Ken Powers SV Aquarius <ken@...> wrote:

To all,

First thing, everyone that had the ball breaking problem with their pole systems, had their poles where they didn't belong (no pun intended).  My previous owner also blew out a ball on the Pacific Crossing in 2001 (that was when the boat was only 2 years old).  This tells me it's not just a problem your balls not having the proper sun protection.  What it really sez to me,  your balls are the systems weak link. 

As someone else kind-of mentioned.  Henri Amel was a pretty good sailor, and had some pretty good engineers designing his yachts.  Just like the mouse you use to lock your ballooner to the top of the forestay, if you make the weak link out of a stronger material you may just change the breakage POINT, but still have a failure.  The question is... Where is that next failure point?  Could it be your entire rig (that would be a failure of your biggest pole, and an impatient boat entering port may deflate your ego for a very.. very.... long.... time)?  Really, I don't think anyone knows where the next failure point would be, if not for the balls.

Be very careful when changing the material of the systems weak link.  Don't change your mouse to aluminum, because if you make a mistake (AGAIN), it ain't goin' to be pretty!  I don't know where the next week-link in the pole system would be, but, me,  I don't want to find out.  

Just something to think about,

Ken Powers
Sailing Aquarius
SM2K#262


Nicolas Klene
 

Hello Bill
You might want to check the web site address (typo error ?) ,”spacecraft.fr” doesn’t exist but “sparecraft.fr” is still in activity but no sign of the poll ends there....
Kindest regards
Nick
--
Nicolas Klene
DarNico
SM2K # 471
In Marseille


Jean Boucharlat
 

Hello,

 

It in fact http://www.sparcraft.fr

 

All the best,

 

Jean Boucharlat

Formerly SM 232

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Nicolas Klene via groups.io
Sent: lundi 10 mai 2021 12:02
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Spinnaker pole strut mast fitting ball joint replacement? #replacement

 

Hello Bill
You might want to check the web site address (typo error ?) ,”spacecraft.fr” doesn’t exist but “sparecraft.fr” is still in activity but no sign of the poll ends there....
Kindest regards
Nick
--
Nicolas Klene
DarNico
SM2K # 471
In Marseille


Chris Doucette
 

Sparecraft doesnt show the ball and socket style in their catalog, however they show a cylindrical style with a socket-  it seems to me that if one were to buy these- replacing both the joining ends of the two poles you would end up with a desired result.  


On May 10, 2021, at 6:29 AM, Jean Boucharlat <jean.boucharlat@...> wrote:



Hello,

 

It in fact http://www.sparcraft.fr

 

All the best,

 

Jean Boucharlat

Formerly SM 232

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Nicolas Klene via groups.io
Sent: lundi 10 mai 2021 12:02
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Spinnaker pole strut mast fitting ball joint replacement? #replacement

 

Hello Bill
You might want to check the web site address (typo error ?) ,”spacecraft.fr” doesn’t exist but “sparecraft.fr” is still in activity but no sign of the poll ends there....
Kindest regards
Nick
--
Nicolas Klene
DarNico
SM2K # 471
In Marseille


 

Nick,

It is hard to believe that an internet site anywhere fails to register the dns "www.website.fr" as well as the "website.fr"


The funny thing is yes I made a typo in the Amel Book, but if you were using the Online Amel Book and clicked on it the underlying link took you to their website.
I have corrected the "Space" to "Spar." A big thank you to you and Jean Boucharlat. Here is a snippet.

image.png

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 6:12 AM Chris Doucette <amaroksailing@...> wrote:
Sparecraft doesnt show the ball and socket style in their catalog, however they show a cylindrical style with a socket-  it seems to me that if one were to buy these- replacing both the joining ends of the two poles you would end up with a desired result.  


On May 10, 2021, at 6:29 AM, Jean Boucharlat <jean.boucharlat@...> wrote:



Hello,

 

It in fact http://www.sparcraft.fr

 

All the best,

 

Jean Boucharlat

Formerly SM 232

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Nicolas Klene via groups.io
Sent: lundi 10 mai 2021 12:02
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Spinnaker pole strut mast fitting ball joint replacement? #replacement

 

Hello Bill
You might want to check the web site address (typo error ?) ,”spacecraft.fr” doesn’t exist but “sparecraft.fr” is still in activity but no sign of the poll ends there....
Kindest regards
Nick
--
Nicolas Klene
DarNico
SM2K # 471
In Marseille