tb/AMEL 54 electric water pump/


Teun BAAS
 

On AMELIT, June 2009 AMEL 54 # 128, I have an 220v electric water pump which was an AMEL original installed option with the ONAN impeller removed and now an open cavity.

 

Several people (including Bill ROUSE) suggested to have both the electric pump as well as the original ONAN impeller operating jointly and when I looked into doing this in 2018 in NEW CALEDONIA and again in 2019 in VANUATU both marine technician strongly advised against doing this.

 

Being on the hard in COOMERA, QLND AUSTRALIA since December 2019 fellow AMEL owners Sue & Brian MITCHELL (in addition very experienced, professional Superyachts Captains) have been looking after AMELIT and we have been discussing several engine room related issues. This electric ONAN pump is one of them and Brian, rightfully, is wondering why a 220v pump is: A) being used and B) so low on the floor of the engine room.

 

Does anybody have any feedback on this as I simply don’t know so cannot answer his question or justify the set up.

 

Best Regards Teun

April 13, 2021 10:31:52

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

Teun,

I like and I have the utmost respect for Brian. 

Remember there are other 230VAC pumps/devices this low. They include:
AC Saltwater Pump
LP water maker pump (not on your 54 where it is located on all 54s built). The PO of your 54 changed out the Dessalator Watermaker for another brand.
HP water maker pump (not on your 54 where it is located on all 54s built)
Wiring for the water heater

The 230VAC pump you have in-line with the Onan mechanical saltwater pump is considered a booster pump and was a "hidden" option Amel installed in a few 54s.

The danger would be an electrical shock if standing in your engine room with the generator running and the engine room is flooded. How possible do you consider this? Yes, there is a remote possibility, but the same possibility exists with the other 230 volt devices in a 54 engine room.
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 12:35 PM Teun BAAS <teun@...> wrote:

On AMELIT, June 2009 AMEL 54 # 128, I have an 220v electric water pump which was an AMEL original installed option with the ONAN impeller removed and now an open cavity.

 

Several people (including Bill ROUSE) suggested to have both the electric pump as well as the original ONAN impeller operating jointly and when I looked into doing this in 2018 in NEW CALEDONIA and again in 2019 in VANUATU both marine technician strongly advised against doing this.

 

Being on the hard in COOMERA, QLND AUSTRALIA since December 2019 fellow AMEL owners Sue & Brian MITCHELL (in addition very experienced, professional Superyachts Captains) have been looking after AMELIT and we have been discussing several engine room related issues. This electric ONAN pump is one of them and Brian, rightfully, is wondering why a 220v pump is: A) being used and B) so low on the floor of the engine room.

 

Does anybody have any feedback on this as I simply don’t know so cannot answer his question or justify the set up.

 

Best Regards Teun

April 13, 2021 10:31:52

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Teun BAAS
 

Hi Bill,

 

Thanks for feedback.

 

Just out of curiosity: what would motivate AMEL to change the ONAN impeller pump to the (ceramic centrifugal) booster pump? I am not questioning wisdom and must admit that except 1 occasion I never had a problem with this pump and NEVER had to change the impeller as it simply isn’t there. Although the impeller on the ONAN is far more accessible than on my VOLVO D3 H – where it is on the back of the engine close to the shower bulkhead.

 

Best Regards Teun

April 13, 2021 12:37:59

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2021 12:19
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] tb/AMEL 54 electric water pump/

 

Teun,

 

I like and I have the utmost respect for Brian. 

 

Remember there are other 230VAC pumps/devices this low. They include:

AC Saltwater Pump

LP water maker pump (not on your 54 where it is located on all 54s built). The PO of your 54 changed out the Dessalator Watermaker for another brand.

HP water maker pump (not on your 54 where it is located on all 54s built)

Wiring for the water heater

 

The 230VAC pump you have in-line with the Onan mechanical saltwater pump is considered a booster pump and was a "hidden" option Amel installed in a few 54s.

 

The danger would be an electrical shock if standing in your engine room with the generator running and the engine room is flooded. How possible do you consider this? Yes, there is a remote possibility, but the same possibility exists with the other 230 volt devices in a 54 engine room.

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

 

View My Training Calendar

 

 

On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 12:35 PM Teun BAAS <teun@...> wrote:

On AMELIT, June 2009 AMEL 54 # 128, I have an 220v electric water pump which was an AMEL original installed option with the ONAN impeller removed and now an open cavity.

 

Several people (including Bill ROUSE) suggested to have both the electric pump as well as the original ONAN impeller operating jointly and when I looked into doing this in 2018 in NEW CALEDONIA and again in 2019 in VANUATU both marine technician strongly advised against doing this.

 

Being on the hard in COOMERA, QLND AUSTRALIA since December 2019 fellow AMEL owners Sue & Brian MITCHELL (in addition very experienced, professional Superyachts Captains) have been looking after AMELIT and we have been discussing several engine room related issues. This electric ONAN pump is one of them and Brian, rightfully, is wondering why a 220v pump is: A) being used and B) so low on the floor of the engine room.

 

Does anybody have any feedback on this as I simply don’t know so cannot answer his question or justify the set up.

 

Best Regards Teun

April 13, 2021 10:31:52

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

I believe that Amel changed nothing, except they offered to a few 54 buyers an in-line booster pump powered by the AC output of the Onan.

I suspect Amel was motivated by X number of buyers of the 54 including the previous owner of your 54. The PO of your 54 took things a step further and bypassed the mechanical Onan saltwater pump. I am sure that this is not what Amel intended when adding a booster pump. Frankly, I am surprised that Amel added a booster pump because I believe it was not needed.

Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 2:40 PM Teun BAAS <teun@...> wrote:

Hi Bill,

 

Thanks for feedback.

 

Just out of curiosity: what would motivate AMEL to change the ONAN impeller pump to the (ceramic centrifugal) booster pump? I am not questioning wisdom and must admit that except 1 occasion I never had a problem with this pump and NEVER had to change the impeller as it simply isn’t there. Although the impeller on the ONAN is far more accessible than on my VOLVO D3 H – where it is on the back of the engine close to the shower bulkhead.

 

Best Regards Teun

April 13, 2021 12:37:59

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2021 12:19
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] tb/AMEL 54 electric water pump/

 

Teun,

 

I like and I have the utmost respect for Brian. 

 

Remember there are other 230VAC pumps/devices this low. They include:

AC Saltwater Pump

LP water maker pump (not on your 54 where it is located on all 54s built). The PO of your 54 changed out the Dessalator Watermaker for another brand.

HP water maker pump (not on your 54 where it is located on all 54s built)

Wiring for the water heater

 

The 230VAC pump you have in-line with the Onan mechanical saltwater pump is considered a booster pump and was a "hidden" option Amel installed in a few 54s.

 

The danger would be an electrical shock if standing in your engine room with the generator running and the engine room is flooded. How possible do you consider this? Yes, there is a remote possibility, but the same possibility exists with the other 230 volt devices in a 54 engine room.

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

 

View My Training Calendar

 

 

On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 12:35 PM Teun BAAS <teun@...> wrote:

On AMELIT, June 2009 AMEL 54 # 128, I have an 220v electric water pump which was an AMEL original installed option with the ONAN impeller removed and now an open cavity.

 

Several people (including Bill ROUSE) suggested to have both the electric pump as well as the original ONAN impeller operating jointly and when I looked into doing this in 2018 in NEW CALEDONIA and again in 2019 in VANUATU both marine technician strongly advised against doing this.

 

Being on the hard in COOMERA, QLND AUSTRALIA since December 2019 fellow AMEL owners Sue & Brian MITCHELL (in addition very experienced, professional Superyachts Captains) have been looking after AMELIT and we have been discussing several engine room related issues. This electric ONAN pump is one of them and Brian, rightfully, is wondering why a 220v pump is: A) being used and B) so low on the floor of the engine room.

 

Does anybody have any feedback on this as I simply don’t know so cannot answer his question or justify the set up.

 

Best Regards Teun

April 13, 2021 10:31:52

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Arno Luijten
 

Hi Teun,

We’ve talked about this before. I just don’t get it. What is the added value of this setup? Why is the existing impeller pump not sufficient for feeding cooling water? 95% of the Amels (I’m guessing) has this set up and seem to be fine with it. Unless you remove the impeller pump completely, it will still be a source of (shaft) leakage at some point. The only thing I can imagine is if you use the genset frequently at continuous high loads you may want to improve the flow. In all honesty I would then enlarge the heat exchanger as the mickey-mouse version that is standard part of the genset seems to leave quite some room for improvement.
Adding another pump seems just to complicate things.

Just my two cents,

Arno
SV Luna
A54-121 


Alan Leslie
 

I would think that the reason for the centrifugal pump is to eliminate the impeller changing on the Onan.
The impellers don't last very long in most cases. That's my experience also.
I have a March pump which I will install when I run out of stock of impellers, but I will completely bypass the impeller pump and feed directly into the heat exchanger.
I first saw the March pump on Amelit with the previous owner.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437 .... soon to be reunited


Teun BAAS
 

Alan

 

I tend to agree: have asked specific questions to AMEL on this and expect an answer next week.

 

Best Regards Teun

SV AMELIT  A54  #128

 

In Storage on the hard in COOMERA (near BRISBANE) QLD AUSTRALIA

April 16, 2021 11:18:30

 

USA cell: +1 832 477 8842

AUSTRALIA cell: +61 5951 8909

 

You can follow AMELIT via this link: https://forecast.predictwind.com/tracking/display/AMELIT

 

 

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alan Leslie via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2021 01:17
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] tb/AMEL 54 electric water pump/

 

I would think that the reason for the centrifugal pump is to eliminate the impeller changing on the Onan.
The impellers don't last very long in most cases. That's my experience also.
I have a March pump which I will install when I run out of stock of impellers, but I will completely bypass the impeller pump and feed directly into the heat exchanger.
I first saw the March pump on Amelit with the previous owner.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437 .... soon to be reunited


Teun BAAS
 

Morning Arno,

 

 

As we have discussed “ad nausea” – I tend to agree; my impeller is completely removed.

I have asked specific questions to AMEL on this and expect an answer next week and might share the feedback

 

 

Have a great weekend in HOLLAND and have some “patat met” or “sateh” on me 😊 and HI to Mirjam; only reason I put up with your    <Annoying mode ON>   and   <Annoying mode OFF>  is her; she is way, way too good for you 😊 hahahahahaha.       

 

 

Best Regards Teun

SV AMELIT  A54  #128

 

In Storage on the hard in COOMERA (near BRISBANE) QLD AUSTRALIA

April 16, 2021 11:31:37

 

USA cell: +1 832 477 8842

AUSTRALIA cell: +61 5951 8909

 

You can follow AMELIT via this link: https://forecast.predictwind.com/tracking/display/AMELIT

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Arno Luijten via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2021 00:08
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] tb/AMEL 54 electric water pump/

 

Hi Teun,

We’ve talked about this before. I just don’t get it. What is the added value of this setup? Why is the existing impeller pump not sufficient for feeding cooling water? 95% of the Amels (I’m guessing) has this set up and seem to be fine with it. Unless you remove the impeller pump completely, it will still be a source of (shaft) leakage at some point. The only thing I can imagine is if you use the genset frequently at continuous high loads you may want to improve the flow. In all honesty I would then enlarge the heat exchanger as the mickey-mouse version that is standard part of the genset seems to leave quite some room for improvement.
Adding another pump seems just to complicate things.

Just my two cents,

Arno
SV Luna
A54-121 


Randall Walker
 

The best swap video I have seen is this one.

On Fri, Apr 16, 2021 at 2:33 PM Teun BAAS <teun@...> wrote:

Morning Arno,

 

 

As we have discussed “ad nausea” – I tend to agree; my impeller is completely removed.

I have asked specific questions to AMEL on this and expect an answer next week and might share the feedback

 

 

Have a great weekend in HOLLAND and have some “patat met” or “sateh” on me 😊 and HI to Mirjam; only reason I put up with your    <Annoying mode ON>   and   <Annoying mode OFF>  is her; she is way, way too good for you 😊 hahahahahaha.       

 

 

Best Regards Teun

SV AMELIT  A54  #128

 

In Storage on the hard in COOMERA (near BRISBANE) QLD AUSTRALIA

April 16, 2021 11:31:37

 

USA cell: +1 832 477 8842

AUSTRALIA cell: +61 5951 8909

 

You can follow AMELIT via this link: https://forecast.predictwind.com/tracking/display/AMELIT

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Arno Luijten via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2021 00:08
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] tb/AMEL 54 electric water pump/

 

Hi Teun,

We’ve talked about this before. I just don’t get it. What is the added value of this setup? Why is the existing impeller pump not sufficient for feeding cooling water? 95% of the Amels (I’m guessing) has this set up and seem to be fine with it. Unless you remove the impeller pump completely, it will still be a source of (shaft) leakage at some point. The only thing I can imagine is if you use the genset frequently at continuous high loads you may want to improve the flow. In all honesty I would then enlarge the heat exchanger as the mickey-mouse version that is standard part of the genset seems to leave quite some room for improvement.
Adding another pump seems just to complicate things.

Just my two cents,

Arno
SV Luna
A54-121 


Arno Luijten
 

Nice video. However.... It passes very quickly over the main problem of this setup. The Marco pump is not self priming. He puts a non-return valve in the circuit that typically work quite poorly for raw sea-water. The system does not notify you if the waterflow needs priming so that can be quite annoying as well.
I’m not sure how long a normal impeller will last but if it lasts a boating season or an oil-replacement interval I don’t see the advantage of this solution. A spare impeller is cheaper then a spare pump and even the Sharewood raw water pump is not that expensive to keep as a spare.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


 

Arno, I agree completely. I watched this video about 2 years ago. This video is a perfect example of what NOT to do and a perfect example of how to compare an Amel-designed system to another. Amel designs things that are difficult to operate incorrectly. I call this child-proof design. The complicated system shown in this video has the risk of many built-in possible operation issues and operator failures, like the failure to set a valve correctly or the failure of dozens of added parts.

Obviously, the owner of the boat enjoys over-complicating things and enjoys tinkering with his boat and its systems. My comments are not to criticize him, but rather to use what he has done as an example of what not to do. Can you imagine if you just bought this boat from him? Would you completely understand the operation of what he has installed and the risks with setting a valve wrong and the risks with failure? I am sure that this is not the first thing he has modified.

One-way valve installed before the seawater filter:
image.png

Wow!!!
image.png
More, also notice the flow sensor is orientated so that debris falls into the sensor
image.png
This was probably an afterthought because it wasn't there when he first showed the completed project. 
He just added further complications and increased the risk of something going wrong.
image.png

I urge all Amel owners to restrain themselves from this type of overcomplication. Especially because if you simply change the Onan impeller every 250 hours and do it correctly with an OEM impeller, you will not experience losing impeller parts into the heat exchanger. Also, the heat exchanger should probably be removed and completely cleaned every 1500 hours.


CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sat, Apr 17, 2021 at 3:54 AM Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:
Nice video. However.... It passes very quickly over the main problem of this setup. The Marco pump is not self priming. He puts a non-return valve in the circuit that typically work quite poorly for raw sea-water. The system does not notify you if the waterflow needs priming so that can be quite annoying as well.
I’m not sure how long a normal impeller will last but if it lasts a boating season or an oil-replacement interval I don’t see the advantage of this solution. A spare impeller is cheaper then a spare pump and even the Sharewood raw water pump is not that expensive to keep as a spare.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121