locked tb/AMEL 54 outhaul protector burn out Mid Atlantic/AYOG + COVID


karkauai
 

 Hi Amel cousins,
Kristy's Main furler has been getting weaker until it finally would fuel under any load at all. It still turns when disconnected from the foil, no noise. The sail furls manually with normal resistance using the winch handle.
I swapped the solenoids for the  furler and outhaul without any change..I swapped the motor out for a new one from Amel.. same issue.  Under load my ammeter on the cable to the motor reads 100+A.voltage output from the solenoids reads 26.8v. Resistance in the cables reads 0 Ohms
.
I cut both ends off of the cables to redo what appeared to be well-crumped fittings, and noticed that the copper was no longer shiny.  After cutting another and then another 6 inches off both ends of the wires, I never found shiny copper wire.  I recrimped on new fittings and it runs better, but still nothing like before.

I feel pretty certain that the cable is bad, through and through.  I will replace the cables for both outhaul and furler this week and let you know if that solves the mystery.  Could that be what is causing Arno's problem?

I haven't posted it yet, because I haven't swapped the cable out yet to confirm that was the problem. 
 
COVID
 I just came down with flu-like symptoms and tested + for Covid. Fever, cough and rip-roaring headache and muscle pain Sunday, started Ivermectin/Hydroxychloroquin/Vit D³&C/ aspirin/Quercitin regimen Sunday afternoon, and by Mon AM was free of Fever, headache, and muscle pain. Now just a mild cough and tired.  Those "horse dewormers" and other banned off-label meds worked wonders on this unvaccinated sailor, as they have on millions of others in Africa and India.

--
Kent & Iris
KRISTY
SM243


william reynolds
 

posting medically unsubstantiated, disproven  covid remedies have no business being posted on the Amel site.  
Bill R  - Cloudstreet 


Bill Kinney
 

Kent,

The very high amperage draw you see (100A) would indicate that the motor is mechanically stalled, and your problem has nothing to do with high resistance in the cables. If that amperage was measure correctly, it is WAY higher than these motors should draw under normal load.

Have you checked the manual furler gear box?  If the top seal in one of these fails, the bearings can quickly corrode until they seize. When was the last time you had that apart to replace the seals and inspect the bearings & gears? Have you tried turning the gear box with the winch handle? When you drop the motor from the foil, can you easily turn the foil by hand?  If not, that's your problem.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Le Marin, Martinique


Bob Chapman <bob_chapm@...>
 

My wife and i have been on exactly the same medical anti-covid protocol , which worked perfectly for us

On May 18, 2022, at 5:42 AM, william reynolds <sail23692@...> wrote:


posting medically unsubstantiated, disproven  covid remedies have no business being posted on the Amel site.  
Bill R  - Cloudstreet 


karkauai
 

Hi Bill.  The manual furler is easy to use when the motor is disconnected from the foil.  I completely refurbished it a few years ago, and found it almost pristine.  The foil turns easily by hand.

I'm not sure how to check the voltage at the motor, as it's connections are made deep within the motor.  I had the motors (old and new) bench tested by an alternator shop and they said everything looked good, although they didn't have a way to test it under load.  The fact that cutting off 24" of cable helped performance some seemed to indicate that the cable was the problem.
I guess after 12 years,  I'm still a novice at electricity, but if the cable delivers less voltage, won't the motor use more amperage?

Any other thoughts?
Thanks.
--
Kent & Iris
KRISTY
SM243
--
Kent & Iris
KRISTY
SM243


karkauai
 

Hi Bill.  The manual furler is easy to use when the motor is disconnected from the foil.  I completely refurbished it a few years ago, and found it almost pristine. The foil turns easily by hand.

I'm not sure how to check the voltage at the motor, as it's connections are made deep within the motor.  I had the motors (old and new) bench tested by an alternator shop and they said everything looked good, although they didn't have a way to test it under load.  The fact that cutting off 24" of cable helped performance some seemed to indicate that the cable was the problem.
I guess after 12 years,  I'm still a novice at electricity, but if the cable delivers less voltage, won't the motor use more amperage?
--
Kent & Iris
KRISTY
SM243
--
Kent & Iris
KRISTY
SM243


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Kent, I find it disturbing that the western world have banned those drugs. Medically they proven safe and effective which cannot be said of their vaccines and alternative treatments. Glad you recovered quickly. I will reply to your motor query on the forum
Kind regards to you and Iris
Danny

On 18/05/2022 15:07 karkauai via groups.io <karkauai@...> wrote:


 Hi Amel cousins,
Kristy's Main furler has been getting weaker until it finally would fuel under any load at all. It still turns when disconnected from the foil, no noise. The sail furls manually with normal resistance using the winch handle.
I swapped the solenoids for the  furler and outhaul without any change..I swapped the motor out for a new one from Amel.. same issue.  Under load my ammeter on the cable to the motor reads 100+A.voltage output from the solenoids reads 26.8v. Resistance in the cables reads 0 Ohms
.
I cut both ends off of the cables to redo what appeared to be well-crumped fittings, and noticed that the copper was no longer shiny.  After cutting another and then another 6 inches off both ends of the wires, I never found shiny copper wire.  I recrimped on new fittings and it runs better, but still nothing like before.

I feel pretty certain that the cable is bad, through and through.  I will replace the cables for both outhaul and furler this week and let you know if that solves the mystery.  Could that be what is causing Arno's problem?

I haven't posted it yet, because I haven't swapped the cable out yet to confirm that was the problem. 

COVID
 I just came down with flu-like symptoms and tested + for Covid. Fever, cough and rip-roaring headache and muscle pain Sunday, started Ivermectin/Hydroxychloroquin/Vit D³&C/ aspirin/Quercitin regimen Sunday afternoon, and by Mon AM was free of Fever, headache, and muscle pain. Now just a mild cough and tired.  Those "horse dewormers" and other banned off-label meds worked wonders on this unvaccinated sailor, as they have on millions of others in Africa and India.

--
Kent & Iris
KRISTY
SM243


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Kent, over the years I gave found the first place to check sail control motor malfunction is the  brushes. They choke up with carbon dust and stick. Usually it causes total non functioning so recently when my out haul was going slow I looked every where else, eg excessive load to no avail. When I finally checked the brushes I found all four were stuck. Freed and cleaned them. Bingo. That is the first time I have had a " go slow" rather than a stoppage caused by  brush sticking. At about the same time the furler motor stopped, theres a coincidence, in its case just one brush was stuck.
Kind regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl

On 18/05/2022 15:07 karkauai via groups.io <karkauai@...> wrote:


 Hi Amel cousins,
Kristy's Main furler has been getting weaker until it finally would fuel under any load at all. It still turns when disconnected from the foil, no noise. The sail furls manually with normal resistance using the winch handle.
I swapped the solenoids for the  furler and outhaul without any change..I swapped the motor out for a new one from Amel.. same issue.  Under load my ammeter on the cable to the motor reads 100+A.voltage output from the solenoids reads 26.8v. Resistance in the cables reads 0 Ohms
.
I cut both ends off of the cables to redo what appeared to be well-crumped fittings, and noticed that the copper was no longer shiny.  After cutting another and then another 6 inches off both ends of the wires, I never found shiny copper wire.  I recrimped on new fittings and it runs better, but still nothing like before.

I feel pretty certain that the cable is bad, through and through.  I will replace the cables for both outhaul and furler this week and let you know if that solves the mystery.  Could that be what is causing Arno's problem?

I haven't posted it yet, because I haven't swapped the cable out yet to confirm that was the problem. 

COVID
 I just came down with flu-like symptoms and tested + for Covid. Fever, cough and rip-roaring headache and muscle pain Sunday, started Ivermectin/Hydroxychloroquin/Vit D³&C/ aspirin/Quercitin regimen Sunday afternoon, and by Mon AM was free of Fever, headache, and muscle pain. Now just a mild cough and tired.  Those "horse dewormers" and other banned off-label meds worked wonders on this unvaccinated sailor, as they have on millions of others in Africa and India.

--
Kent & Iris
KRISTY
SM243


Bill Schwanitz
 

Hi Danny,

You are right that motor brushes are the first and easiest motor part to check. However, Kent said that he "swapped the [main furling] motor out for a new one from Amel." I think that rules out brushes - and really anything in the motor.

I was with Kent when this furling motor failed at a most inopportune moment. We'll save that story for sharing over a few beers sometime.

Cheers,
Bill
Soon to be Amel owner

On Wed, May 18, 2022 at 3:05 PM Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:
Hi Kent, over the years I gave found the first place to check sail control motor malfunction is the  brushes. They choke up with carbon dust and stick. Usually it causes total non functioning so recently when my out haul was going slow I looked every where else, eg excessive load to no avail. When I finally checked the brushes I found all four were stuck. Freed and cleaned them. Bingo. That is the first time I have had a " go slow" rather than a stoppage caused by  brush sticking. At about the same time the furler motor stopped, theres a coincidence, in its case just one brush was stuck.
Kind regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl
On 18/05/2022 15:07 karkauai via groups.io <karkauai=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:


 Hi Amel cousins,
Kristy's Main furler has been getting weaker until it finally would fuel under any load at all. It still turns when disconnected from the foil, no noise. The sail furls manually with normal resistance using the winch handle.
I swapped the solenoids for the  furler and outhaul without any change..I swapped the motor out for a new one from Amel.. same issue.  Under load my ammeter on the cable to the motor reads 100+A.voltage output from the solenoids reads 26.8v. Resistance in the cables reads 0 Ohms
.
I cut both ends off of the cables to redo what appeared to be well-crumped fittings, and noticed that the copper was no longer shiny.  After cutting another and then another 6 inches off both ends of the wires, I never found shiny copper wire.  I recrimped on new fittings and it runs better, but still nothing like before.

I feel pretty certain that the cable is bad, through and through.  I will replace the cables for both outhaul and furler this week and let you know if that solves the mystery.  Could that be what is causing Arno's problem?

I haven't posted it yet, because I haven't swapped the cable out yet to confirm that was the problem. 

COVID
 I just came down with flu-like symptoms and tested + for Covid. Fever, cough and rip-roaring headache and muscle pain Sunday, started Ivermectin/Hydroxychloroquin/Vit D³&C/ aspirin/Quercitin regimen Sunday afternoon, and by Mon AM was free of Fever, headache, and muscle pain. Now just a mild cough and tired.  Those "horse dewormers" and other banned off-label meds worked wonders on this unvaccinated sailor, as they have on millions of others in Africa and India.

--
Kent & Iris
KRISTY
SM243


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Yes Bill, I had noted that but thought it worth sharing with the group that brush sticking could cause a go slow. As to the beer story, my furler motor decided not function as we entered a particularly convoluted entrance in Fiji with coral heads grinning at us on all sides. remarkable how fast I could loosen 4 bolts, drop the motor and wind the sail away with the winch handle.
As to your beer, it will have to be in NZ  unless the world opens up to the unvaccinated.
Kind Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl

On 19/05/2022 09:14 Bill Schwanitz <billschwanitz@...> wrote:


Hi Danny,

You are right that motor brushes are the first and easiest motor part to check. However, Kent said that he "swapped the [main furling] motor out for a new one from Amel." I think that rules out brushes - and really anything in the motor.

I was with Kent when this furling motor failed at a most inopportune moment. We'll save that story for sharing over a few beers sometime.

Cheers,
Bill
Soon to be Amel owner

On Wed, May 18, 2022 at 3:05 PM Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:
Hi Kent, over the years I gave found the first place to check sail control motor malfunction is the  brushes. They choke up with carbon dust and stick. Usually it causes total non functioning so recently when my out haul was going slow I looked every where else, eg excessive load to no avail. When I finally checked the brushes I found all four were stuck. Freed and cleaned them. Bingo. That is the first time I have had a " go slow" rather than a stoppage caused by  brush sticking. At about the same time the furler motor stopped, theres a coincidence, in its case just one brush was stuck.
Kind regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl
On 18/05/2022 15:07 karkauai via groups.io <karkauai=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:


 Hi Amel cousins,
Kristy's Main furler has been getting weaker until it finally would fuel under any load at all. It still turns when disconnected from the foil, no noise. The sail furls manually with normal resistance using the winch handle.
I swapped the solenoids for the  furler and outhaul without any change..I swapped the motor out for a new one from Amel.. same issue.  Under load my ammeter on the cable to the motor reads 100+A.voltage output from the solenoids reads 26.8v. Resistance in the cables reads 0 Ohms
.
I cut both ends off of the cables to redo what appeared to be well-crumped fittings, and noticed that the copper was no longer shiny.  After cutting another and then another 6 inches off both ends of the wires, I never found shiny copper wire.  I recrimped on new fittings and it runs better, but still nothing like before.

I feel pretty certain that the cable is bad, through and through.  I will replace the cables for both outhaul and furler this week and let you know if that solves the mystery.  Could that be what is causing Arno's problem?

I haven't posted it yet, because I haven't swapped the cable out yet to confirm that was the problem. 

COVID
 I just came down with flu-like symptoms and tested + for Covid. Fever, cough and rip-roaring headache and muscle pain Sunday, started Ivermectin/Hydroxychloroquin/Vit D³&C/ aspirin/Quercitin regimen Sunday afternoon, and by Mon AM was free of Fever, headache, and muscle pain. Now just a mild cough and tired.  Those "horse dewormers" and other banned off-label meds worked wonders on this unvaccinated sailor, as they have on millions of others in Africa and India.

--
Kent & Iris
KRISTY
SM243




Bill Kinney
 

Kent,

Darn it... I was so sure I had a good answer...

Let's see if I have a summary right... You have switched motors and both turn fine under zero load, but a bit of load and they bog down a lot, to the point of stopping. Weird... since the furling motor really doesn't work very hard under most conditions.  But... in kind of a stream of consciousness, here is my thinking...

I struggle to imagine how a straight piece of cable could have such a high resistance that the motor wouldn't run.  A connector at one end or the other, maybe...  If you were pulling 100 Amps through a high resistance connection it would be easy to find, it would be glowing red hot.  Literally.  That's 2500 watts of power, a lot more than a kitchen toaster uses.  Of course my failure in imagining, doesn't prove anything...

If you had not swapped motors and had the same problem, I'd look for a stuck brush...

I keep coming back to the mechanics on this one.  Is it possible that the gearbox is out of whack?

But then you said that the motor and gearbox run fine when not connected to the foil...  

With the sharp points on a multimeter's probes you should be able to go through the insulation right at the motor housing and get a voltage reading when running--or trying to!

If we assume the motor in not part of the problem, and also the manual furler and foil have been proven good, the only things left are the gearbox and the power supply.

Things I would try:  
  • Confirm that the current draw for the motor when stalled is 100A.
  • With motor and gearbox disconnected from the foil, measure the current when running. This should be low, maybe less than ten.
  • With the motor trying to run, measure the voltage drop in the positive wire from the battery to the relay.  It should be low, less than 1.5 volt.
  • Do the same from battery negative to the negative terminal the motor cable connects to.  Should have the same result.
  • Find a way to measure the voltage drop as close to the motor as possible when it is trying to run. This should be close to 24 volts.  if the voltage drop across the motor is much lower, there is a problem with the power delivery--somewhere. If the voltage drop across the motor is `24 volts, then the motor is getting power as it should.