tb/JORDAN DRGUE/AYOG
|
I purchased a JORDAN DROGUE from an AMEL owner and shipped it to AUSTRALIA without the chain.
Can anybody tell me what length and maybe what size/weight of chain I need to add to the DROGUE when I get back to the boat next month.
Thanks.
Best Regards Teun SV AMELIT A54 #128
HOPE ISLAND MARINA (near BRISBANE) QLD AUSTRALIA March 16, 2022 13:22:18
You can follow AMELIT via this link: https://forecast.predictwind.com/tracking/display/AMELIT
|
|||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Heinz Stutenbaeumer <heinz@...>
Drifting anchor named after the inventor Donald Jordan. The Jordan Series Drogue consists of a towing line ("series") between 70 and 110 m long, in which numerous (up to 150) small, yellow drifting anchors ("drogues") are woven. The drogues have a conical shape, similar to a lace bag, and are open at both ends. A chain weighing about 10 kg is attached to the end of the towline as a weight. The length of the towline and the number and size of the drogue anchors depend on the size and displacement of the yacht. The Jordan Series drogue should be deployed at the stern and connected to the yacht via a cockpit for better load distribution. It is widely used in the English-speaking world and is considered the best drift anchor par excellence, but also costs about € 1,500. Heinz SM2000 292 sy Quetzal Am 16.03.2022 21:22 schrieb Teun BAAS <teun@...>:
|
|||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Teun, It doesn't necessarily need to be a chain. Don Jordan suggests 15 to 25-pound weight. So if you plan to use a chain which is what I used, I would use enough chain to equal between 20 and 25 pounds. Bill
On Wed, Mar 16, 2022 at 3:36 PM Heinz Stutenbaeumer <heinz@...> wrote:
|
|||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Heinz and Bill,
Thanks for the help.
Best Regards Teun SV AMELIT A54 #128
HOPE ISLAND MARINA (near BRISBANE) QLD AUSTRALIA March 16, 2022 14:01:35
You can follow AMELIT via this link: https://forecast.predictwind.com/tracking/display/AMELIT
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2022 13:41 To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io> Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] tb/JORDAN DRGUE/AYOG
Teun,
It doesn't necessarily need to be a chain. Don Jordan suggests 15 to 25-pound weight. So if you plan to use a chain which is what I used, I would use enough chain to equal between 20 and 25 pounds.
Bill
On Wed, Mar 16, 2022 at 3:36 PM Heinz Stutenbaeumer <heinz@...> wrote:
|
|||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Ruslan Osmonov
Hi, do you plan to install chain plates for it or use aft cleats? I know Eric uses aft cleats, but he also reinforced them from the factory for exactly that reason. what do other Amel owners do? It seems like aft cleats, since I’m yet to see one an Amel with chain plates for a drogue. |
|||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Hi Ruslan,
I am REALLY planning with my “weather planning” on NOT having to use this device at all – hahahahahaha but that’s impossible. To answer your question: at this point I am forced to use the aft cleats as I have no special purposed chain plates for the drogue. Once I have taken care of a bunch of other priorities on the boat I might look if I can re-enforce the aft cleats.
Best Regards Teun SV AMELIT A54 #128
HOPE ISLAND MARINA (near BRISBANE) QLD AUSTRALIA March 17, 2022 14:06:22
You can follow AMELIT via this link: https://forecast.predictwind.com/tracking/display/AMELIT
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Ruslan Osmonov via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2022 05:44 To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] tb/JORDAN DRGUE/AYOG
Hi, do you plan to install chain plates for it or use aft cleats? I know Eric uses aft cleats, but he also reinforced them from the factory for exactly that reason. what do other Amel owners do? It seems like aft cleats, since I’m yet to see one an Amel with chain plates for a drogue. |
|||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Hello All.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I’ve thought about this a bit. Luckily never had to deploy our JSD. BUT, Have been thinking of an easy yoke out of dynama: which we cary a bit of on the boat. A sling between the aft cleat and the next aft let on the same side. Find the point where the two are equally loaded and then tie a knot in the sling, so that both cleats are as equally loaded as possible. The knot is required so as there is no sawing through the bridle attachment of the JSD. Our aft cleats are pretty beefy, but if you get underneath, its easy to acknowledge, they could fail. I think a pair of cleats (simultaneously loaded) on each side, as described would be better, but would love other thoughts on the proposed. If it's hard to imagine I can try and describe better, or make a drawing. Many thanks, Porter A54-152 IBIS Newcastle, Aus.
|
|||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Hi Porter , your idea sounds good , would you be able to post a drawing please.
Thanks Micky Ball VERY SOON to be new Santorin Owner |
|||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Ruslan Osmonov
Hi Peter, if you mean to make a Y like bridle between two cleats, with one leg way longer (to amidship cleat), I don't think it will be as strong of a solution, because the weakest link will become the inner cleat. Plus you have new Dyneema line as an extra point of failure. If I'm to think in your line of thought I would think to run a line from aft cleat all the way to fore cleat and then back on the outside and then attach JSD bridle (aft of the boat) but then I wont be able to monitor that connection for chafe as it will be out of reach.
i.e. looks like we are still with aft cleats solution for now :) |
|||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
Hi all, just some input regarding loading. A bridle between the aft cleats either side of the stern will not divide the load as the load will be applied to each side as the boat swings. secondly the use of a non stretch cord like dyneema in a shock loading situation is not good and will multiply the loads applied to what ever anchor point you are using, be it cleats or winches. As with snubbers to anchor chains, laid nylon is the best, its stretch will take the shock loads and absorb them preventing those being applied to the anchor point. Use anti chafe where needed.
Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl
|
|||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Ruslan Osmonov
Hi Danny, totally agree on the shock loads and need for stretch. In my mind I was thinking about the metal shock absorber for this kind of scenario, not sure if I would trust nylon though. I feel like it has to be pretty thick piece to withstand the loads during the pulls.
|
|||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Hi all, Let me ask when is one supposed to rigg this beast. If the weather and seas are in such a state to require a JSD and you are only two then you must crawl out of your safe enclosure to rigg. Take it out of the bag, lay it out, run lines to multiple cleats, toss it in and hope it doesn't tangle up in a heap all while blowing F10 with 50 foot seas. I hate sailing with anything on deck. You either attach, take out of bag and secure it somehow for easy deployment before you sail and hope you don't trip over it or lose it overboard on your crossing or plan and pray you never experience those conditions. I own one they're big and have rolled it out on the dock a few times to inspect. Lots of rope and little bits to tangle up. I will do everything in my power and wallet (weather routing) to not be in that position. By the way. I have read Kimberlite hurricane experience. Terrifying! On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 3:56 PM Ruslan Osmonov <rosmonov@...> wrote: Hi Danny, totally agree on the shock loads and need for stretch. In my mind I was thinking about the metal shock absorber for this kind of scenario, not sure if I would trust nylon though. I feel like it has to be pretty thick piece to withstand the loads during the pulls. |
|||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
I only know one owner who has deployed a Jordon Drogue and he has done it more than one time. My plan (never tested in realistic conditions) was to deploy it from its duffel bag laying on the floor of the aft lazarrette, while I was standing on the same floor with the lid tied securely open. I had the purpose-made loops for the drogue's bridle to attach to the 2 large aft cleats and the bitter end of the chain laid on top of the flaked drogue. My plan was to attach the bridle ends to the 2 cleats, then payout the end with the chain, being prepared for the payout to go as fast as the boat was traveling. We practiced this in a marina and I realize it was not in realistic conditions. You should check your bridle's alignment from the cleats through any fairleads, the backstay(s), and anything else added such as an arch or davits. I suggest that you do not get the drogue wet. There is a 99+% chance that you will sell this drogue. Although it is priceless if you need it, when you sell it and it has never been wet, you will sell it for more. Bill
On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 3:26 PM Chuck_Kim_Joy <clacey9@...> wrote:
|
|||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
Hi Ruslan, in 50 years nylon has been my go to for anchor warps and anchor snubbers, and swing mooring lines, and dock lines. . Properly sized for the load totally reliable. Dock lines are a good easy to see example if there is a bit of sea chop. Non stretch lines are "shocking" (pun intended) the jerking on cleats is really bad. Spring gadgets or stretchy rubber bits are no where near as effective, nor reliable as nylon. IMO.
Kind regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl
|
|||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Hi Chuck
Your
QUOTE
I will do everything in my power and wallet (weather routing) to not be in that position
UNQUOTE
That’s reflects EXACTLY the point I was trying to make in the first sentence of my reply to Ruslan yday. I do realize having a longer than 6 day passage it is almost impossible to predict your weather but still believe (dream???) that with 3 times a day weather updates via satellite should give me a chance to avoid extreme weather.
Best Regards Teun SV AMELIT A54 #128
HOPE ISLAND MARINA (near BRISBANE) QLD AUSTRALIA March 18, 2022 13:59:23
You can follow AMELIT via this link: https://forecast.predictwind.com/tracking/display/AMELIT
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Chuck_Kim_Joy via groups.io
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2022 13:25 To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] tb/JORDAN DRGUE/AYOG
Hi all, Let me ask when is one supposed to rigg this beast. If the weather and seas are in such a state to require a JSD and you are only two then you must crawl out of your safe enclosure to rigg. Take it out of the bag, lay it out, run lines to multiple cleats, toss it in and hope it doesn't tangle up in a heap all while blowing F10 with 50 foot seas. I hate sailing with anything on deck. You either attach, take out of bag and secure it somehow for easy deployment before you sail and hope you don't trip over it or lose it overboard on your crossing or plan and pray you never experience those conditions. I own one they're big and have rolled it out on the dock a few times to inspect. Lots of rope and little bits to tangle up. I will do everything in my power and wallet (weather routing) to not be in that position. By the way. I have read Kimberlite hurricane experience. Terrifying!
On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 3:56 PM Ruslan Osmonov <rosmonov@...> wrote:
|
|||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Ruslan Osmonov
Hi Danny, Am I correct to understand that for the JSD you would connect JSD legs to nylon lines and then those nylon lines to aft cleats? Plus chafe protection. What size of nylon rope would be adequate you recon?
|
|||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Ruslan Osmonov
Another question for you guys, BTW Bill maybe a topic for next meet 🙂, lets say you were not able avoid (we all know how we get into traffic with all the tech we have to avoid it 🙂 ) do you heave to or fore reach or throw JDS out? some modern books suggest that fore reaching is safe and easier option.
|
|||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Eric Freedman
It takes about 5 minutes to pull it out of the port locker. Then snake it out on the aft cabin top, If you packed it correctly that will take a few minutes. Then attach the 2 bridles and drop the chain overboard between the backstays . You will have to feed the first 10-20 feet of the drogue out by hand then it will go by itself. Once it is out it will not jerk the boat. It is very interesting to watch.
When you haul it back on board you will need 3 people. First you need to tie a line to one of the bridles and run it around the backstays. I had eyes spliced into my bridle. When the tension is off the bridle for a few seconds, remove the eye of that bridle and bring it around to the other side of the boat.
One person is needed to make sure the cones do not rip on the aft cleat. I fabricated a wood block to cover the cleat when retrieving the drogue now. Otherwise you will need this third person. Then 2 people are needed to tail the primary winch as the line is too big to put in the jaws. You must stop the winch every minute or so , otherwise the thermal overload in the motor will trip. Then you will have to wait a while to wait till it cools off to use the winch again.
I do not think a Dyneema bridle is a good thing to have on the Jordan. Dyneema doesn’t stretch and I believe the boat will jerk with no stretch in the Jordan system Fair Winds Eric Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io On Behalf Of Chuck_Kim_Joy
Hi all, Let me ask when is one supposed to rigg this beast. If the weather and seas are in such a state to require a JSD and you are only two then you must crawl out of your safe enclosure to rigg. Take it out of the bag, lay it out, run lines to multiple cleats, toss it in and hope it doesn't tangle up in a heap all while blowing F10 with 50 foot seas. I hate sailing with anything on deck. You either attach, take out of bag and secure it somehow for easy deployment before you sail and hope you don't trip over it or lose it overboard on your crossing or plan and pray you never experience those conditions. I own one they're big and have rolled it out on the dock a few times to inspect. Lots of rope and little bits to tangle up. I will do everything in my power and wallet (weather routing) to not be in that position. By the way. I have read Kimberlite hurricane experience. Terrifying!
On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 3:56 PM Ruslan Osmonov <rosmonov@...> wrote:
|
|||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
Hi Ruslan. These questions are getting beyond my pay scale. My input came from concern that totally non stretch dyneema was being considered for a use that would be applying shock loading to an anchor point. If the Jordan does not have sufficient line provided to make the attachment, given the designer has provided a certain type of line, any extension should consider the same type. However my comments re nylon in my previous remain as serious input..
Kind Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl
|
|||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
One thing to consider our boat take a licking and keep on Ticking. Cindy and I’s first real passage got a bit crazy. Forecast 18-22kts out of the north west sounded perfect for our passage Brunswick to Puerto Rico 🇵🇷……….well as things go ended up 35-45 kts out of the East South East with 20+ seas. No fun for us but Trippin did fine … no Great. I feel as long as you avoid a major storm your drogue like mine will stay dry. Like insurance must have but hopefully never use.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Cheers 🥂 Courtney Trippin 54#101 Secret Harbour Grenada On Mar 18, 2022, at 5:04 PM, Teun BAAS <teun@...> wrote:
|
|||||||
|
|
