Upgrade SM for Ballooner Sail


Michael Fuchs
 

Hello!

My Amel SM #75 has just one downwind pole and no ballooner sail. However, I do have a spinnaker and a code 0 but I would like to upgrade to the Amel way of downwind sailing. 

I'm evaluating the cost and what I need for it. Is this list complete? Do I miss something?
- the ballooner sail
- a 2nd set of downwind poles with the front, aft, up and down guys
- the two white plastic pieced to pull up and down the ballooner

Thanks for your help
Michael

--
SM#75 Eden (soon "Sulair II")


Bill Kinney
 

Michael,

Just one more piece to be sure you have... the original three track foil?

You'll have a challenge to assemble the pole end fittings, but it will be worth it if you'll be doing much offshore sailing. For downwind work we do LOVE our ballooner.  

We had our ballooner sail made by Island Planet Sails.  The principle of the company is a former Amel owner, and he has all the specs to have them made right.  

Bill Kinney
Sm160, Harmonie
Port Louis, Grenada
http://www.cruisingconsulting.com


Mike Longcor (SV Trilogy)
 

My 1990 Amel SM23 has a two track headsail foil. This is original as far as I know. The top swivel is also very different from newer SuperMaramus.

Assuming SM75 has the two track foil, somewhere between hull number 75 and hull number 160, Amel came up with the improved ballooner system.

I would love to hear some definitive information on this.

Michael - you could get a ballooner sail and build your second set of poles and start using the double headsail set up the "old school" way. I mention this in the other thread called "Ballooner or 2nd Genoa". Getting all the parts for the improved ballooner system will be very costly - specifically the three track foil and special top swivel.

Cheers,
Mike Longcor
SV Trilogy SM23
NZ


On Sat, Oct 8, 2022, 11:25 PM Bill Kinney <cruisingconsulting@...> wrote:
Michael,

Just one more piece to be sure you have... the original three track foil?

You'll have a challenge to assemble the pole end fittings, but it will be worth it if you'll be doing much offshore sailing. For downwind work we do LOVE our ballooner.  

We had our ballooner sail made by Island Planet Sails.  The principle of the company is a former Amel owner, and he has all the specs to have them made right.  

Bill Kinney
Sm160, Harmonie
Port Louis, Grenada
http://www.cruisingconsulting.com


Michael Fuchs
 

Thanks Bill and Mike for your feedback! I will check for the swivel and three treck foil next week when I'm at the boat and I will report back here.
I have attached the best detail photos I have found. The pictures are low quality and zoomed in. The swivel looks like the one with the ballooner system but as I don't know how the old swivel looks I can't tell of is the new or the old system.

Michael 

Mike Longcor (SV Trilogy) <svtrilogy53@...> schrieb am So., 9. Okt. 2022, 05:49:

My 1990 Amel SM23 has a two track headsail foil. This is original as far as I know. The top swivel is also very different from newer SuperMaramus.

Assuming SM75 has the two track foil, somewhere between hull number 75 and hull number 160, Amel came up with the improved ballooner system.

I would love to hear some definitive information on this.

Michael - you could get a ballooner sail and build your second set of poles and start using the double headsail set up the "old school" way. I mention this in the other thread called "Ballooner or 2nd Genoa". Getting all the parts for the improved ballooner system will be very costly - specifically the three track foil and special top swivel.

Cheers,
Mike Longcor
SV Trilogy SM23
NZ


On Sat, Oct 8, 2022, 11:25 PM Bill Kinney <cruisingconsulting@...> wrote:
Michael,

Just one more piece to be sure you have... the original three track foil?

You'll have a challenge to assemble the pole end fittings, but it will be worth it if you'll be doing much offshore sailing. For downwind work we do LOVE our ballooner.  

We had our ballooner sail made by Island Planet Sails.  The principle of the company is a former Amel owner, and he has all the specs to have them made right.  

Bill Kinney
Sm160, Harmonie
Port Louis, Grenada
http://www.cruisingconsulting.com


Michael Fuchs
 


Michael Fuchs via groups.io <fuchsmi=gmail.com@groups.io> schrieb am So., 9. Okt. 2022, 08:37:

Thanks Bill and Mike for your feedback! I will check for the swivel and three treck foil next week when I'm at the boat and I will report back here.
I have attached the best detail photos I have found. The pictures are low quality and zoomed in. The swivel looks like the one with the ballooner system but as I don't know how the old swivel looks I can't tell of is the new or the old system.

Michael 

Mike Longcor (SV Trilogy) <svtrilogy53@...> schrieb am So., 9. Okt. 2022, 05:49:
My 1990 Amel SM23 has a two track headsail foil. This is original as far as I know. The top swivel is also very different from newer SuperMaramus.

Assuming SM75 has the two track foil, somewhere between hull number 75 and hull number 160, Amel came up with the improved ballooner system.

I would love to hear some definitive information on this.

Michael - you could get a ballooner sail and build your second set of poles and start using the double headsail set up the "old school" way. I mention this in the other thread called "Ballooner or 2nd Genoa". Getting all the parts for the improved ballooner system will be very costly - specifically the three track foil and special top swivel.

Cheers,
Mike Longcor
SV Trilogy SM23
NZ


On Sat, Oct 8, 2022, 11:25 PM Bill Kinney <cruisingconsulting@...> wrote:
Michael,

Just one more piece to be sure you have... the original three track foil?

You'll have a challenge to assemble the pole end fittings, but it will be worth it if you'll be doing much offshore sailing. For downwind work we do LOVE our ballooner.  

We had our ballooner sail made by Island Planet Sails.  The principle of the company is a former Amel owner, and he has all the specs to have them made right.  

Bill Kinney
Sm160, Harmonie
Port Louis, Grenada
http://www.cruisingconsulting.com


Ian Park
 

Michael
Although a bit blurred it looks like the foot of your foil is fitted with the ballooner bolt rope feeder. Also the furler has the extra ‘shield’ fitted on the front edge that contains the spring plate for the mouse.
Hope you’re pleasantly surprised when you get to your boat!

Ian


Mike Longcor (SV Trilogy)
 

Hi Michael,

Yep that's the newer style swivel - ready for ballooner and mouse. This means you should also have the triple track foil. I've attached a photo of the older style swivel (on double track foil). I forgot to mention the furler and motor are a bit different on the older models as well. You can partially see that in the photo.

I still wonder when or what hull number Amel switched (improved) this system.

Cheers,
Mike Longcor
SV Trilogy SM23
NZ

On Sun, Oct 9, 2022, 2:37 AM Michael Fuchs <fuchsmi@...> wrote:
Thanks Bill and Mike for your feedback! I will check for the swivel and three treck foil next week when I'm at the boat and I will report back here.
I have attached the best detail photos I have found. The pictures are low quality and zoomed in. The swivel looks like the one with the ballooner system but as I don't know how the old swivel looks I can't tell of is the new or the old system.

Michael 

Mike Longcor (SV Trilogy) <svtrilogy53@...> schrieb am So., 9. Okt. 2022, 05:49:
My 1990 Amel SM23 has a two track headsail foil. This is original as far as I know. The top swivel is also very different from newer SuperMaramus.

Assuming SM75 has the two track foil, somewhere between hull number 75 and hull number 160, Amel came up with the improved ballooner system.

I would love to hear some definitive information on this.

Michael - you could get a ballooner sail and build your second set of poles and start using the double headsail set up the "old school" way. I mention this in the other thread called "Ballooner or 2nd Genoa". Getting all the parts for the improved ballooner system will be very costly - specifically the three track foil and special top swivel.

Cheers,
Mike Longcor
SV Trilogy SM23
NZ


On Sat, Oct 8, 2022, 11:25 PM Bill Kinney <cruisingconsulting@...> wrote:
Michael,

Just one more piece to be sure you have... the original three track foil?

You'll have a challenge to assemble the pole end fittings, but it will be worth it if you'll be doing much offshore sailing. For downwind work we do LOVE our ballooner.  

We had our ballooner sail made by Island Planet Sails.  The principle of the company is a former Amel owner, and he has all the specs to have them made right.  

Bill Kinney
Sm160, Harmonie
Port Louis, Grenada
http://www.cruisingconsulting.com


Bill Kinney
 

I agree, your foil looks read to go for a ballooner.  A detailed inspection of the swivel and its functionality would be a good idea. there can be issues that would not show at all with the genoa that make flying the ballooner problematic.

A word of warning... if you have not already done so, review carefully the comments in this forum about the dangers of halyard wraps.  That post market spinnaker halyard has the potential to dismast your boat.  NEVER, EVER secure that halyard to the bow pulpit, or anywhere forward of the mast.  Just do not do it.  Even as a temporary storage location.  This is hard to give enough importance to. If you forget to move it aft, and it gets sucked into the rotating foil, it will ruin your whole day in dramatic fashion.

If you use and love your spinnaker, then learn to deal with the halyard carefully.  If you don't use the spinnaker, give serious consideration to removing that halyard.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
http://www.cruisingconsulting.com


James Alton
 

Bill,

   I am really glad to see you talking a about the risks of a haylard getting wrapped on the headstay as it is such an important subject.    From what I found out, some Amels like mine have genoa extrusions that are long enough that they completely cover the forestay at the top and terminate with an overlap on to the upper swage fitting for the forestay.    Could you please share your opinion on whether having the forestay completely covered could protect it from damage in the event of a haylard wrap?  Also, do you think that the compression from many wraps of a haylard could crush the aluminum extrusion?  I have wondered about having a solid delrin cap machined for the top of our extrusion which currently just ends at the top. 

Best,
James Alton
Sv Sueno
Maramu #220
Now off of Cesme, Turkyie

On Monday, October 10, 2022 at 06:29:59 AM GMT+3, Bill Kinney <cruisingconsulting@...> wrote:


I agree, your foil looks read to go for a ballooner.  A detailed inspection of the swivel and its functionality would be a good idea. there can be issues that would not show at all with the genoa that make flying the ballooner problematic.

A word of warning... if you have not already done so, review carefully the comments in this forum about the dangers of halyard wraps.  That post market spinnaker halyard has the potential to dismast your boat.  NEVER, EVER secure that halyard to the bow pulpit, or anywhere forward of the mast.  Just do not do it.  Even as a temporary storage location.  This is hard to give enough importance to. If you forget to move it aft, and it gets sucked into the rotating foil, it will ruin your whole day in dramatic fashion.

If you use and love your spinnaker, then learn to deal with the halyard carefully.  If you don't use the spinnaker, give serious consideration to removing that halyard.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
http://www.cruisingconsulting.com