Topics

Victron Quattro charger/inverter installation

James Cromie
 

Hello Super Maramu or A-54 owners - 
(and particularly Scott Tengah) 

I am going to install a Victron 24V 5000W Quattro Charger/Inverter in my Super Maramu.  
As this has an internal automatic transfer switch, I am trying to figure out how to wire this unit to bypass the original Amel transfer switch.  

In any case, I would greatly appreciate any advice / input on how others have installed this unit in their Amel.  Any photos or schematics would be extremely helpful.  

Many Thanks,
James
SV Soteria
SM2K 347
Cartagena, Club Nautico (in the sweltering heat and humidity)

Porter McRoberts
 

James. I’ve done this.its a bit of a pain but I rewired  the panel.  One side for inverter power, the other side for shore/generator power. Keeps it logical and simple with out the possibility of recurrent loops. 

Porter. 

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 
Www.fouribis.com

On Nov 8, 2019, at 4:36 AM, James Cromie via Groups.Io <jamescromie@...> wrote:

Hello Super Maramu or A-54 owners - 
(and particularly Scott Tengah) 

I am going to install a Victron 24V 5000W Quattro Charger/Inverter in my Super Maramu.  
As this has an internal automatic transfer switch, I am trying to figure out how to wire this unit to bypass the original Amel transfer switch.  

In any case, I would greatly appreciate any advice / input on how others have installed this unit in their Amel.  Any photos or schematics would be extremely helpful.  

Many Thanks,
James
SV Soteria
SM2K 347
Cartagena, Club Nautico (in the sweltering heat and humidity)

James Cromie
 

Thanks Porter.  What do you mean by “one side” for each one?  
-James

On Nov 7, 2019, at 6:22 PM, Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io <portermcroberts@...> wrote:

James. I’ve done this.its a bit of a pain but I rewired  the panel.  One side for inverter power, the other side for shore/generator power. Keeps it logical and simple with out the possibility of recurrent loops. 

Porter. 

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Nov 8, 2019, at 4:36 AM, James Cromie via Groups.Io <jamescromie@...> wrote:

Hello Super Maramu or A-54 owners - 
(and particularly Scott Tengah) 

I am going to install a Victron 24V 5000W Quattro Charger/Inverter in my Super Maramu.  
As this has an internal automatic transfer switch, I am trying to figure out how to wire this unit to bypass the original Amel transfer switch.  

In any case, I would greatly appreciate any advice / input on how others have installed this unit in their Amel.  Any photos or schematics would be extremely helpful.  

Many Thanks,
James
SV Soteria
SM2K 347
Cartagena, Club Nautico (in the sweltering heat and humidity)

Porter McRoberts
 

On the 230/50 panel. Port side is for items supplied by the quay/mains or generator. The starbord side is wired to the inverter. The chargers/ dive compressor,  AC, washer etc is still on the port side. 
Porter
Ibis A54-152 

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 
Www.fouribis.com

On Nov 8, 2019, at 2:36 PM, James Cromie via Groups.Io <jamescromie@...> wrote:

Thanks Porter.  What do you mean by “one side” for each one?  
-James
On Nov 7, 2019, at 6:22 PM, Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io <portermcroberts@...> wrote:

James. I’ve done this.its a bit of a pain but I rewired  the panel.  One side for inverter power, the other side for shore/generator power. Keeps it logical and simple with out the possibility of recurrent loops. 

Porter. 

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Nov 8, 2019, at 4:36 AM, James Cromie via Groups.Io <jamescromie@...> wrote:

Hello Super Maramu or A-54 owners - 
(and particularly Scott Tengah) 

I am going to install a Victron 24V 5000W Quattro Charger/Inverter in my Super Maramu.  
As this has an internal automatic transfer switch, I am trying to figure out how to wire this unit to bypass the original Amel transfer switch.  

In any case, I would greatly appreciate any advice / input on how others have installed this unit in their Amel.  Any photos or schematics would be extremely helpful.  

Many Thanks,
James
SV Soteria
SM2K 347
Cartagena, Club Nautico (in the sweltering heat and humidity)

James Cromie
 

got it.  thanks.
-James

On Nov 7, 2019, at 9:05 PM, Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io <portermcroberts@...> wrote:

On the 230/50 panel. Port side is for items supplied by the quay/mains or generator. The starbord side is wired to the inverter. The chargers/ dive compressor,  AC, washer etc is still on the port side. 
Porter
Ibis A54-152 

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Nov 8, 2019, at 2:36 PM, James Cromie via Groups.Io <jamescromie@...> wrote:

Thanks Porter.  What do you mean by “one side” for each one?  
-James
On Nov 7, 2019, at 6:22 PM, Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io <portermcroberts@...> wrote:

James. I’ve done this.its a bit of a pain but I rewired  the panel.  One side for inverter power, the other side for shore/generator power. Keeps it logical and simple with out the possibility of recurrent loops. 

Porter. 

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Nov 8, 2019, at 4:36 AM, James Cromie via Groups.Io <jamescromie@...> wrote:

Hello Super Maramu or A-54 owners - 
(and particularly Scott Tengah) 

I am going to install a Victron 24V 5000W Quattro Charger/Inverter in my Super Maramu.  
As this has an internal automatic transfer switch, I am trying to figure out how to wire this unit to bypass the original Amel transfer switch.  

In any case, I would greatly appreciate any advice / input on how others have installed this unit in their Amel.  Any photos or schematics would be extremely helpful.  

Many Thanks,
James
SV Soteria
SM2K 347
Cartagena, Club Nautico (in the sweltering heat and humidity)


 

James,

I don't think that you want to bypass the generator/shore power switch for your 220 panel, certainly not for the entire panel.

Like the 54, the SM 220 main panel has 2 buses. breakers attach to the buses. The 54 main panel is similar, but different than the SM main panel. The SM buses are independent and wired to the main 220 block inside the panel. I believe what you can do is leave the generator/shore power switch in place and wire one Main Panel bus to the generator/shore power feed, which is after the generator/shore power switch in the engine room, and wire the other bus to the output of the inverter. The difficulty will probably be moving some breakers from one bus to another to get the desired results. With 5000 watts, you will probably want washer, microwave, outlets, possibly 1 AC and possibly something else on one side. I think that you'll have to move a minimum of 2+2 breakers. You might want to make a new plexiglass face, but, at the least, you will need to relabel some breakers. I think it may also be possible to cut a bus in half, but not sure. Some 54's and 55's were made with split buses where some 220 panel breakers were automatically powered by the inverter.

I may know more in a few days. If so will come back to you.

--
CW Bill Rouse Amel Yacht Owners School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   


On Thu, Nov 7, 2019 at 9:16 PM James Cromie via Groups.Io <jamescromie=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
got it.  thanks.
-James
On Nov 7, 2019, at 9:05 PM, Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io <portermcroberts@...> wrote:

On the 230/50 panel. Port side is for items supplied by the quay/mains or generator. The starbord side is wired to the inverter. The chargers/ dive compressor,  AC, washer etc is still on the port side. 
Porter
Ibis A54-152 

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Nov 8, 2019, at 2:36 PM, James Cromie via Groups.Io <jamescromie@...> wrote:

Thanks Porter.  What do you mean by “one side” for each one?  
-James
On Nov 7, 2019, at 6:22 PM, Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io <portermcroberts@...> wrote:

James. I’ve done this.its a bit of a pain but I rewired  the panel.  One side for inverter power, the other side for shore/generator power. Keeps it logical and simple with out the possibility of recurrent loops. 

Porter. 

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Nov 8, 2019, at 4:36 AM, James Cromie via Groups.Io <jamescromie@...> wrote:

Hello Super Maramu or A-54 owners - 
(and particularly Scott Tengah) 

I am going to install a Victron 24V 5000W Quattro Charger/Inverter in my Super Maramu.  
As this has an internal automatic transfer switch, I am trying to figure out how to wire this unit to bypass the original Amel transfer switch.  

In any case, I would greatly appreciate any advice / input on how others have installed this unit in their Amel.  Any photos or schematics would be extremely helpful.  

Many Thanks,
James
SV Soteria
SM2K 347
Cartagena, Club Nautico (in the sweltering heat and humidity)


Ben and Gayle Super Maramu #347
 

James,
You may already know but  the inverter on your boat was after market Xantrex 110 volt with its own galley receptacles.  It was wired differently from units installed by Amel so be cautious at the panel.

Ben Driver
SM347
La Bella Vita (former)

On Nov 8, 2019, at 4:32 AM, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:


James,

I don't think that you want to bypass the generator/shore power switch for your 220 panel, certainly not for the entire panel.

Like the 54, the SM 220 main panel has 2 buses. breakers attach to the buses. The 54 main panel is similar, but different than the SM main panel. The SM buses are independent and wired to the main 220 block inside the panel. I believe what you can do is leave the generator/shore power switch in place and wire one Main Panel bus to the generator/shore power feed, which is after the generator/shore power switch in the engine room, and wire the other bus to the output of the inverter. The difficulty will probably be moving some breakers from one bus to another to get the desired results. With 5000 watts, you will probably want washer, microwave, outlets, possibly 1 AC and possibly something else on one side. I think that you'll have to move a minimum of 2+2 breakers. You might want to make a new plexiglass face, but, at the least, you will need to relabel some breakers. I think it may also be possible to cut a bus in half, but not sure. Some 54's and 55's were made with split buses where some 220 panel breakers were automatically powered by the inverter.

I may know more in a few days. If so will come back to you.

--
CW Bill Rouse Amel Yacht Owners School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   


On Thu, Nov 7, 2019 at 9:16 PM James Cromie via Groups.Io <jamescromie=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
got it.  thanks.
-James
On Nov 7, 2019, at 9:05 PM, Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io <portermcroberts@...> wrote:

On the 230/50 panel. Port side is for items supplied by the quay/mains or generator. The starbord side is wired to the inverter. The chargers/ dive compressor,  AC, washer etc is still on the port side. 
Porter
Ibis A54-152 

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Nov 8, 2019, at 2:36 PM, James Cromie via Groups.Io <jamescromie@...> wrote:

Thanks Porter.  What do you mean by “one side” for each one?  
-James
On Nov 7, 2019, at 6:22 PM, Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io <portermcroberts@...> wrote:

James. I’ve done this.its a bit of a pain but I rewired  the panel.  One side for inverter power, the other side for shore/generator power. Keeps it logical and simple with out the possibility of recurrent loops. 

Porter. 

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Nov 8, 2019, at 4:36 AM, James Cromie via Groups.Io <jamescromie@...> wrote:

Hello Super Maramu or A-54 owners - 
(and particularly Scott Tengah) 

I am going to install a Victron 24V 5000W Quattro Charger/Inverter in my Super Maramu.  
As this has an internal automatic transfer switch, I am trying to figure out how to wire this unit to bypass the original Amel transfer switch.  

In any case, I would greatly appreciate any advice / input on how others have installed this unit in their Amel.  Any photos or schematics would be extremely helpful.  

Many Thanks,
James
SV Soteria
SM2K 347
Cartagena, Club Nautico (in the sweltering heat and humidity)


rossirossix4
 
Edited

Hi James,
You may want to consider a 3 position high capacity rotary switch.  This is what we did when we added an inverter.  Our inverter had an internal transfer switch which we did not use.  Easiest to explain by looking at photos first.   https://photos.app.goo.gl/xoac3UQCHckm7TPN8    It is pretty straight forward although it may sound a bit complicated here.  We knew what we wanted but we used a knowledgeable electrician at Manoel Island Yacht Yard (one of the best yards in Europe, IMHO) to make sure that everything was safe and correct. Where it enters the "220V white box" above the sink, we disconnected the wire that comes from the Amel automatic transfer switch--this leaves the Amel auto shorepower/generator function intact.  The wire was shortened and connected to the 3 way rotary switch--1,5 9 on the table.  The inverter was wired to the batteries at the 100amp charger with an appropriately sized 24v breaker (ABYC requirement and a good idea).  The 220V output then goes to an RCD as soon as it exits the inverter (this our electrician insisted upon even though there is an RCD at the "white box".  (RCD provides shock safety for 220V European much like GFIs in the US but by measuring current return discrepancies vs ground fault).  Then the inverter output goes to the rotary switch--3,7,11 on the rotary switch wiring table.  This gives total electrical isolation between the gen/shorepower and the inverter.  Whether you choose to switch the ground as well can be discussed with your electrician--switching the ground allows total isolation, while keeping it continuous is usually code (to guard against ground failure).  The corresponding outputs (2,6,10) and (4,8,12) go to the "white box" via 2-3 conductor wires OR, as we did by 1 wire after shunting 2-4;6-8;10-12 with a single 3 conductor exit wire to the white box.

Advantages of the 3 way rotary switch, in our opinion and experience are: 1)complete isolation between gen/shorepower and inverter  2)total disconection when switching between between sources--NO connection as you pass through 0 position, and zero connections if you place the switch in the center position--which we do before starting the generator or plugging to shore power  3)simplicity of operation 4)allows you to use devices--which we do--such as inverter powering the water heater OR washing machine.  We heat water when we have excess solar and can do clothes washing with the inverter (specially handy when motoring without robbing your battery bank--you can even do a 30 minute express wash while you de-anchor and exit an anchorage or enter an anchorage and complete anchoring) 5)controls--generator, inverter, and selector switch can be located together. 6)safety features with 24V breaker and RCD and high (63amp) capacity of switch and wire used.  Despite its capacity it is reasonably sized and selector does not look out of place.

In our case the watermaker may not be operated as it exceeds our inverter capacity and we don't run the hotwater heater and the washing machine together, or say a hair dryer and microwave.  In the future, with lithium batteries we may swap out for a larger inverter.  If capacity is exceeded  either the inverter and the 24V breaker that feeds it will shut down.

Switch is relatively inexpensive and made for this type of application https://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-Rotary-Changeover-Switch-SZW26-63-660V-63A-3-Position-Phase/233337561113?epid=1056139592&hash=item365400a019:g:DXEAAOSwAfVdxE4X
also Amazon or search for SZW26 63 660V 63A  .  Priced so that you can carry a spare.  Blue Sea makes a similar version that does not require output shunting but is significantly more expensive https://www.bluesea.com/products/9019/AC_Rotary_Switch_-_OFF_%2B_2_Positions_240V_AC_65A

The only complication we encountered was extending the length of the selector stem to go through the plywood--the guys at Manoel did not want to risk high temps by welding and used a tube and JB weld or similar as I recall.  Don't forget to cover the back of the rotary switch--even though it is up and out of the way like the generator switch and behind a baffle.

Again pics are at https://photos.app.goo.gl/xoac3UQCHckm7TPN8  one of the photos show both 24V breaker (waterproof) and RCD box (probably could have been more compact, I think it was for a double)

Let us know if you have questions.

Bob and Suzanne, SM 429 KAIMI

Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica
 

Hello James,

On our YouTube channel we posted a Video how we installed our Victron Charger Inverter 5000W 

Go to:

S V Vela Nautica

On YouTube there is also more information how we switched to lithium batteries. We use it now for over a year. 

Oliver from 
Vela Nautica 
54#39
Lanzarote

On Fri, Nov 8, 2019, 02:36 James Cromie via Groups.Io <jamescromie=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Thanks Porter.  What do you mean by “one side” for each one?  
-James
On Nov 7, 2019, at 6:22 PM, Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io <portermcroberts@...> wrote:

James. I’ve done this.its a bit of a pain but I rewired  the panel.  One side for inverter power, the other side for shore/generator power. Keeps it logical and simple with out the possibility of recurrent loops. 

Porter. 

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Nov 8, 2019, at 4:36 AM, James Cromie via Groups.Io <jamescromie@...> wrote:

Hello Super Maramu or A-54 owners - 
(and particularly Scott Tengah) 

I am going to install a Victron 24V 5000W Quattro Charger/Inverter in my Super Maramu.  
As this has an internal automatic transfer switch, I am trying to figure out how to wire this unit to bypass the original Amel transfer switch.  

In any case, I would greatly appreciate any advice / input on how others have installed this unit in their Amel.  Any photos or schematics would be extremely helpful.  

Many Thanks,
James
SV Soteria
SM2K 347
Cartagena, Club Nautico (in the sweltering heat and humidity)

Scott SV Tengah
 

Apologies for the late response - we were doing the Chesapeake-Caribbean passage. Now here in Marigot Bay with two other 54s! It was getting a bit too cold on the US East Coast!

 

I can explain what was done conceptually but 220v frightens me, so I had the electrician do the actual wiring.

 

The Amel transfer switch is bypassed completely. The wires from the shore power plug go into AC2 while the wires from the genset go to AC1. Victron specifically states that you should have your genset have priority if both power sources exist. I’m not really sure why, but given that I see no harm in their way of doing it and moreover, I will be playing with the Quattro’s programmable relays, I abided by their recommendation. 

From Quattro Manual: "In a Quattro the AC1 input has always priority over the AC2 input. A common practice is that a generator is connected to AC1 and shore power to AC2. As long as 

the generator is running the Quattro’s will use the generator. "

 

On the output side, there are two  AC-Out outputs which go to the main panel switches. Sorry I am not sure how this is physically wired, just speaking conceptually here.These outputs are fed from either mains/genset power OR uninterrupted power (aka mains/genset/inverter). I have all but one item fed by AC-OUT-1, which is uninterrupted - runs on either shore/genset or inverter. Yes, the water heater, scuba compressor, aircon, washer/dryer, etc. are run from the inverter. 

 

There’s AC-OUT-2 output, which is ONLY fed from shorepower/genset power and the only thing I have connected to that is my Skylla 80amp charger. This output is on, I believe, a 2 minute delay from when shore/genset power is detected.

 

I hope this helps somewhat.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

David Crisp
 

I've been reading through the various threads as I prepare to install solar and LiFePo on my Amel 54 and start ordering the components. It's tremendously helpful so thanks to everyone who has shared their experiences.

I'm just deciding between the Victron Multiplus and Quattro inverter/charger and would like to know why the majority of you appear to go for the Quattro. So far the existing Amel AC source selection system which automatically prioritises generator over shore power seems to work okay. Is it just a question of neatness or are there other reasons please?
--
David Crisp
SV Wilna Grace
Amel 54 #58

Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica
 

Hello,

I do not see the point to buy a quattro and bypass the AMEL shore power switch. If we would not have this switch it makes sense, but with an automatic switch installed? 

On my boat the multi is doing fine with the original AMEL setup. 

I split the AC panel, as described in my youtube video. Its no problem to move some breakers and carefully move the labels with them. One side / bus of AC pannel for inverter the other for shorepower/genset. It is also possible to split an AC bus. 

Oliver from Vela Nautica Amel54 #39 
Martinique 


On Thu, Feb 6, 2020, 05:52 David Crisp <david@...> wrote:
I've been reading through the various threads as I prepare to install solar and LiFePo on my Amel 54 and start ordering the components. It's tremendously helpful so thanks to everyone who has shared their experiences.

I'm just deciding between the Victron Multiplus and Quattro inverter/charger and would like to know why the majority of you appear to go for the Quattro. So far the existing Amel AC source selection system which automatically prioritises generator over shore power seems to work okay. Is it just a question of neatness or are there other reasons please?
--
David Crisp
SV Wilna Grace
Amel 54 #58

Scott SV Tengah
 

I believe for most, the Multiplus may be a money saver. 

For me, I wanted to be able to set different current limits for the genset and shore power.

For shore power, I set it at 16A. This works 99% of the time. If the marina has 32A supply, I can change to 32A via ve-config software if I really need the additional current. There have been a few instances where I needed to lower it to 9A or less because I'm literally plugging into someone's house/restaurant. 

For genset, I have the 11kw Onan, so that's set at 50A at all times.

With the Multiplus and its one AC input, you can't set differential limits. Getting the Quattro is probably overkill, but my desire is to minimize the number of things I need to remember to manage during the boat's operation.
--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

James Cromie
 

I have installed the Quattro on our Super Maramu #347.  Indeed, the transfer switch capability of the Quattro is currently not necessary for is because of the original transfer switch.  I have the Quattro installed after the original transfer switch. However, when/if that switch fails, we now have redundancy, which I consider an important aspect of any system on our boat.

Indeed, you're paying a bit more money for the Quattro,  but when is anything on a boat ever cheap!

Best,
James
Soteria SM2k 347
Vista mar



On Feb 6, 2020 07:09, "Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica" <oliver.henrichsen@...> wrote:
Hello,

I do not see the point to buy a quattro and bypass the AMEL shore power switch. If we would not have this switch it makes sense, but with an automatic switch installed? 

On my boat the multi is doing fine with the original AMEL setup. 

I split the AC panel, as described in my youtube video. Its no problem to move some breakers and carefully move the labels with them. One side / bus of AC pannel for inverter the other for shorepower/genset. It is also possible to split an AC bus. 

Oliver from Vela Nautica Amel54 #39 
Martinique 


On Thu, Feb 6, 2020, 05:52 David Crisp <david@...> wrote:
I've been reading through the various threads as I prepare to install solar and LiFePo on my Amel 54 and start ordering the components. It's tremendously helpful so thanks to everyone who has shared their experiences.

I'm just deciding between the Victron Multiplus and Quattro inverter/charger and would like to know why the majority of you appear to go for the Quattro. So far the existing Amel AC source selection system which automatically prioritises generator over shore power seems to work okay. Is it just a question of neatness or are there other reasons please?
--
David Crisp
SV Wilna Grace
Amel 54 #58


Lior Keydar
 

Dear Oliver

I still have on SHARONA (A54) the original installation of the inverter and the two charger (30, 100) with 12 lead acid batteries.  I think as a first step just to replace the old inverter and charger with Victron MultiPlus or Quattro and keep the old batteries for a few more month. 

I saw that you installed your MultiPlus inverter near the batteries. Can I ask, why did you not installed it instead of the old inverter behind the generator? Would it be also easy to install it behind the generator?

Thanks
Lior SHARONA, A54 #18

Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica
 

Hello,

There are several reasons why I did not install the charger inverter in the old engine room location.

I did not like that computerised device in a hot and humid environment, special beside the watermaker. I experianced a spray from a hose right into old charger... 

Victron advices installation in cool and dry place and the engine room is the opposite. Additional there is the bilge and whem someone takes a hot shower lots of steam whoop around..

With the ventilation arangement inside the multi plus its intended to be mounted vertical for best cooling. Thats not possible at the old place. Its also possible to mount it horizontal but u will not get best cooling. 

I like to have short charging wires for best efficency and less losses, I would have needed to route additional wires for 120A charging. In the new location wires are short.

Now living with this upgrade more than 1.5 years full time anchored I would do it this way again. Its not that much trouble to rewire as you will need to change wires to larger sizes anyway. 

Oliver from Vela Nautica Amel54#39 
Martinique 

On Wed, May 20, 2020, 09:54 Lior Keydar <lior246@...> wrote:
Dear Oliver

I still have on SHARONA (A54) the original installation of the inverter and the two charger (30, 100) with 12 lead acid batteries.  I think as a first step just to replace the old inverter and charger with Victron MultiPlus or Quattro and keep the old batteries for a few more month. 

I saw that you installed your MultiPlus inverter near the batteries. Can I ask, why did you not installed it instead of the old inverter behind the generator? Would it be also easy to install it behind the generator?

Thanks
Lior SHARONA, A54 #18

Arno Luijten
 

Hi,

This topic is somewhat frequent as mane Amels have a fairly limited inverter. Our Amel 54 is still stock and has the Mass Sine 2500 from Mastervolt that is actually only 2000 Watt continuously. So like may others I've been looking at alternatives.

The Victron 5kW is big, really big. It also has some small print where it states is will reduce it's output above 30 Deg. ambient temperature. I'm not saying the Vircron is not a good piece of kit, far from it, but it does have some drawbacks. Also the idle power consumption is significant.
I'm wondering why I would need 5kW. There is a case for it if you are using induction hobs for cooking, but I have no plans to convert in the foreseeable future.
I think the great improvement could be in the ability to use the washing machine, diswasher, maybe one of the A/C's
For this the inverter does not need to be more then 3.0-3.5kW continuously.
The other advantage is that a 5 kW inverter requires immense cables to the batteries, making it a big problem installing it in the Engine room, justifying the installation in the battery compartment. This again would require to move to Lithium to save battery-space... On and on it goes. So at present I'm looking into a few Mastervolt Mass-series boxes, also because this would integrate with all the other Mastervolt stuff from the later A54's

This brings me to the following question. Has anyone looked into the 24 Volt connection point in the engine room of a A54 next to the fusebox (see picture).
I notice there are feed cables of 95mm2 allowing for quite some power draw. Does anyone know where exactly these cables are connected on the supply side? Before or behind the main switches? As far as I can see this power-point is the main feed point for the fuse-box next to it is that correct?

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121

Mohammad Shirloo
 

Hi Arno;

 

I think all of your questions and concerns are valid. We are going through the same questions as we plan our upgrade. You have to first really sit down and decide exactly what your optimum setup would be. You want to be sure that you do not go down a design path with certain assumptions and design criteria and find out at the tail end that you also wanted “X” that the current design cannot provide.

 

We are also considering Victron, but have the same concerns of size, weight, derating with increased temperature, compatibility with existing MasterVolt, etc. One suggestion would be to look at MasterVolt Mass Combi Ultra. Here’s the link https://www.mastervolt.com/products/combis-inverter-charger/

 

They are light (33.7 lb), compact, provide full capacity in higher temperatures, low power consumption at idle (4W),  have an integrated solar charge regulator, two AC inputs for shore power and generator and multiple units can be ganged up to increase power output. In our case, we are thinking about going with a single unit (3.5 KW) and adding another when we go to full Lithiums for 7KW of inversion. Eventually eliminating the 100A and 40 A charges and having one or both as spares.

 

The issue of supplying it with the DC power needed will depend on the existing equipment and wiring in the engine room, so running new wires can be avoided. We are also trying to avoid moving the inverters out of the engine room. We currently have the 2500W MasterVolt inverter, 100A Charger and 40A Charger. So we have wiring sufficient for about 250A of 24 volts coming to the engine room. This would theoretically be sufficient for about 6000W of inversion. This is most likely sufficient to power all systems on board, including our 150l/hr water maker that needs about 3KW. We just have to manage concurrent system usage to stay in a safe range of available power.

 

It is great to have all of these new options, however, we just have to sort through them and have an overall design that meets our requirements. As always, with more options come more decisions.

 

Happy Sailing;

 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

AMEL 54 #099

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Arno Luijten via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 7:50 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Victron Quattro charger/inverter installation

 

Hi,

This topic is somewhat frequent as mane Amels have a fairly limited inverter. Our Amel 54 is still stock and has the Mass Sine 2500 from Mastervolt that is actually only 2000 Watt continuously. So like may others I've been looking at alternatives.

The Victron 5kW is big, really big. It also has some small print where it states is will reduce it's output above 30 Deg. ambient temperature. I'm not saying the Vircron is not a good piece of kit, far from it, but it does have some drawbacks. Also the idle power consumption is significant.
I'm wondering why I would need 5kW. There is a case for it if you are using induction hobs for cooking, but I have no plans to convert in the foreseeable future.
I think the great improvement could be in the ability to use the washing machine, diswasher, maybe one of the A/C's
For this the inverter does not need to be more then 3.0-3.5kW continuously.
The other advantage is that a 5 kW inverter requires immense cables to the batteries, making it a big problem installing it in the Engine room, justifying the installation in the battery compartment. This again would require to move to Lithium to save battery-space... On and on it goes. So at present I'm looking into a few Mastervolt Mass-series boxes, also because this would integrate with all the other Mastervolt stuff from the later A54's

This brings me to the following question. Has anyone looked into the 24 Volt connection point in the engine room of a A54 next to the fusebox (see picture).
I notice there are feed cables of 95mm2 allowing for quite some power draw. Does anyone know where exactly these cables are connected on the supply side? Before or behind the main switches? As far as I can see this power-point is the main feed point for the fuse-box next to it is that correct?

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121

Scott SV Tengah
 

Hey everyone,

We've lived 18 months in mostly tropical conditions with the Quattro 5kw. I have some thoughts on this.

1) You can mount the Quattro 5kw in the engine room, VERTICALLY as Victron intended. We had to mount the secondary Skylla-i 80amp charger horizontally, but that's fine as it will never run for more than 2 hours at a time, even if my 450ah lithium bank is completely empty (which it has never been). Both are placed right where Amel put my original Dolphin 100a and 30a chargers, making installation easy.
See installation photo on my earlier post at https://amelyachtowners.groups.io/g/main/message/47890

I have obsessively monitored charging and inverter output via the VE-Config software and the BMV-712 battery monitor because of heat concerns and possible power tapering. In my 18 months of mostly tropical live board living, that has never happened. Inverter output has never been tapered, even when motoring and running a big inverter load. Charger output has also never been tapered on either the Quattro or the Skylla, even when both are running off genset.

Lior - that said, you will need to break out the seal between the passageway and the engine room to install new cables. Don't skimp on this. This is not difficult and resealing it is not difficult either.

FYI installing the Quattro 3kw will still require that you use 2 PAIRS of 50mm2 cables, per Victron. 

2) We opted for 5kw because the admiral and crew don't always monitor their concurrent usage. If they're running the boiler (2kw), the washing machine is in heat mode (1.5kw) and someone turns on the microwave (1kw), we are quite happy to have the Quattro 5kw. This isn't often, but it has happened before. Also the surge capacity of the Quattro 5kw allows us to use the scuba compressor on inverter/battery.

3) We looked at the Mastervolt Ultra. It draws 4w when the inverter is off. It draws 7w when the "low power mode" is selected. The MV low power mode is the same functionality as the "search mode" on the Victron, with the same no-load draw. What it does is pulse the inverter on every few seconds to search for a load. I opted not to do this because it causes my analog voltage meter (in the cabinet above the galley sink) to jump back and forth. Perhaps this is fine, but I didn't want the additional mechanical wear and the clicking sound is a bit annoying. And it won't turn sense low draw loads like small AC chargers or possibly laptops.

Instead, I installed a simple $5 switch on the electrical panel which allowed me to turn on/off the inverter remotely. We turn it on when we need the big inverter and turn it off most of the time. When "off", the power consumption is zero, which is less than the Mastervolt. That saves me 40AH a day, which is the equivalent of the daily output of a 200w solar panel!
https://amelyachtowners.groups.io/g/main/message/50689

We have the Amel installed 800w Mastervolt inverter at the nav station. We use that when we're running laptops, ice maker, bread maker, projector, cordless drill AC chargers, etc. Because of its low capacity, it's far more efficient at low power draws. We also changed some jumpers to activate "Economic Mode" so it draws even less when power draw is <250w.

Hope this helps.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Arno Luijten
 

Hi Mohammad,

Be aware the battery chargers are connected to the "other side" of the main battery switches relative to the inverter. So before you start putting these cables in parallel you will need to change that (if not already). I'm not sure why Amel did this, but my guess is that you can keep a battery charger running even if all other things are disconnected.

This is why I was asking about the power-connection point in the engine room. It seems to be connected to the secondary side of the battery-switch with 95mm2 cables, more then enough to run a 4kW inverter instead of the 2kW version. I don't like changing too much the original config of the boat as it very often comes back and bites you, especially in a complex boat like the 54. So replacing the inverter seems to be limited to the inverter itself, the cable to the inverter, the circuit breaker in the gray cabinet needs to go up from 120A to 200A. and maybe the 230 V output cable needs to be bigger (2.5 mm2), I'm not sure. And of course some changes are required to the 230 switch panel to energize the washer etc. when running off the inverter. But It allows you to retain the original config for the most part.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121