Topics

Vindvane on a 54?


Martin Birkhoff
 

To all owners of a 54,
did anyone try to fit a 54 with a vindvane? I do not rmember clearly but I think I have seen pics of an 54 steered by a vindvane.

Thanks

Martin 

Mago del Sur - 54#40


Randall Walker
 

Martin,
This was on my boat by the previous owner.


Randall
A54#56


On Sat, Feb 20, 2021 at 6:46 PM Martin Birkhoff <mbirkhoff@...> wrote:

To all owners of a 54,
did anyone try to fit a 54 with a vindvane? I do not rmember clearly but I think I have seen pics of an 54 steered by a vindvane.

Thanks

Martin 

Mago del Sur - 54#40


Courtney Gorman
 

Martin I’m not sure there’s a windvane that can handle a 54


On Feb 20, 2021, at 1:46 PM, Martin Birkhoff <mbirkhoff@...> wrote:



To all owners of a 54,
did anyone try to fit a 54 with a vindvane? I do not rmember clearly but I think I have seen pics of an 54 steered by a vindvane.

Thanks

Martin 

Mago del Sur - 54#40


 

At some point in size, quality, and elegance wind vanes are not used. Surly the Amel 54 is over that line.

Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sat, Feb 20, 2021 at 12:07 PM Courtney Gorman via groups.io <Itsfun1=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Martin I’m not sure there’s a windvane that can handle a 54


On Feb 20, 2021, at 1:46 PM, Martin Birkhoff <mbirkhoff@...> wrote:



To all owners of a 54,
did anyone try to fit a 54 with a vindvane? I do not rmember clearly but I think I have seen pics of an 54 steered by a vindvane.

Thanks

Martin 

Mago del Sur - 54#40


Martin Birkhoff
 

Randall,
did the former owner say something about his experiences? 

I would expect - as Bill said - the 54 to be to big to be steered by a windvane. 
But because we made good experiences using a Windpilot Pacific and knowing that there are some big boats up to 60 feet with wind gear its interesting to know more if possible.

Martin
Mago del Sur 54#40


Wolfgang Weber
 

Hi Martin,
I had this question to the group some years ago and Olivier responded - windvane not recommended. 
Perhaps you will find it in the mails.
Greetings to Anke, 
Wolfgang Weber SY Elise Amel54#162





Randall Walker
 


Hey Martin,

I believe when the solar panels and wind generators went on, the run your autopilot full time was less of an energy issue.
But with the newer tender davit, the hydrovane just had to go.
My opinion is the Hydrovane would spend way to much time popping up out of the water on a 54.
Just work toward good electrical power.
Randall
IMG_1430.JPGIMG_1471.JPG


On Sat, Feb 20, 2021 at 8:52 PM Martin Birkhoff <mbirkhoff@...> wrote:

Randall,
did the former owner say something about his experiences? 

I would expect - as Bill said - the 54 to be to big to be steered by a windvane. 
But because we made good experiences using a Windpilot Pacific and knowing that there are some big boats up to 60 feet with wind gear its interesting to know more if possible.

Martin
Mago del Sur 54#40


Bill Kinney
 

I love windvanes.  They are awesome pieces of mechanical kit.  I have spent many hours on a long ocean passage just watching one, which can be endlessly fascinating to an engineering nerd like me.  There is something very satisfying about working to get the sails trimmed right and the boat in perfect tune and steering itself.  But... other than the entertainment value, there are really only two practical reasons I can think of for having one.

First is the low power usage.  On an Amel this is not an issue.  You can have all the power you need to run an electric autopilot.  The amount of extra energy used by the autopilot over and above what we need to run our fridges and other "routine" stuff is really pretty trivial.

Second reason is the perceived reliability of a windvane over an electric autopilot.  In all of my ocean sailing I have had ONE self-steering system failure that left me needing to change plans for my trip. That was a windvane that cracked an aluminum casting 800 miles out in the Pacific.  By my measure--an admittedly very limited in number of data points--electric auto pilots have been much more reliable.  For much less than the cost of a windvane you can buy a spare linear drive for your autopilot (our boat came to us with a spare) and have a ready to drop in backup for all the mechanical bits in the system.

What we have on Harmonie is an installed linear drive, with a backup in the locker, and an installed chain drive, and two independent autopilot computers each of which can run either drive unit.  Short of a lightning strike taking down all of our electronics, I have confidence we have sufficient redundancies.

As far as I know, for an Amel 54 the only practical option you have for a windvane is a Hydrovane.  If there are no arches, or other obstructions on the stern of the boat, I would bet it would work, but would take quite a bit of fussing to balance the boat well enough to make it reliable. I would enjoy that fussing, not everybody would.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Charleston, SC, USA


Ian Park
 

Agree fully with Bill.
I took my hydrovane off and sold it. I would have loved it on my previous boat (Jeanneau 37). I'm not the best sail trimmer and if the boat went off course it meant releasing the locked steering wheel and getting the boat back on course - or - going to the back of the boat to disengage it. At night this was more of a problem. The rudder on it is vertical and is great at gathering sargasso weed. So even on autopilot it can be a pain. The hydrovane rudder is very difficult to put on in a seaway so you have to fit it before departure. It is easy enough to remove under way but not to replace it.
As an ever ageing couple of was obvious that 'we' on this boat didn't need it. We just carry a spare rotary drive.
If you do install a hydrovane reinforce the transom. It wasn't built to take the forces of the mounting struts.

Ian
Ocean Hobo SN96


Martin Birkhoff
 

Thanks to all of you for your input,

affirming our decision not to add a windvane (though I would like to fuss with it ...). 
At present we have a spare linear drive in a locker and an installed chain drive too. We can choose the preferred drive by switch. A spare controll unit / computer will be added soon. To improve the energy situation we will add an hydro generator.

Martin
Mago del Sur 54#40   


Martin Bevan
 

I was the previous owner of Randall’s boat. Based on previous experience of short handed ocean sailing and being new to Amel with the 54, I thought I needed a wind and water powered self steering rig as a backup and to conserve power. After a great deal of research and endless discussions with Hydrovane I fitted one. Due to the boarding ladder it had to be offset. Whilst this arrangement might work on some similar sized boats it did not work for me. The water flow on the stern varies in direction with speed and heel, thus the mechanism does not stand a chance. Hydrovane were very good and took it back. I spent the money on a complete spare autopilot to carry as a spare. This eventually came in useful 60,000nm later in St Helena when the linear drive failed - somewhere not renown as a source of spare parts.  I hope that this information helps. 

Martin


Scott SV Tengah
 

Martin (B),

How did your linear AP fail at 60,000nm? What specifically failed?

We had an issue where the brushes in the electric motor wore down to almost nothing. We swapped the motors from our rotary drive, which was barely used, to our linear drive and all is good now. Of course now I'm trying to find brushes for it and apparently Raymarine just wants you to buy a brand new linear AP!

Just curious what other failures others have experienced. Sorry for the thread drift.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Dominique Sery
 


Scott SV Tengah
 

The commutator looks fine so I've been trying to find the brushes. :)

Any ideas where I can get that?

On Wed, Feb 24, 2021 at 11:56 AM Dominique Sery via groups.io <dominiquesery=me.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hello Scott,

You can find a new engine for 375 € 
https://www.tyboat.com/achat/P-28464-raymarine-moteur-de-remplacement-pour-verin-electrique-type-2-24-volts.html
regards
Dominique


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Dominique Sery
 

Hello Scott,

You can find the brushes for 56 euros.
https://www.nautiboutique.fr/produit/charbons-pour-moteur-de-pilote-type-2-raymarine-n034/
They sell many spares for Raymarine.
i have ordered several times in their webshop without problem.
they are very helpfull.
Ask them before ordering if it’s ok for your pilote engine.

Dominique


Scott SV Tengah
 

Perfect, thanks!!!


On Wed, Feb 24, 2021 at 5:56 PM Dominique Sery via groups.io <dominiquesery=me.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hello Scott,

You can find the brushes for 56 euros.
https://www.nautiboutique.fr/produit/charbons-pour-moteur-de-pilote-type-2-raymarine-n034/
They sell many spares for Raymarine.
i have ordered several times in their webshop without problem.
they are very helpfull.
Ask them before ordering if it’s ok for your pilote engine.

Dominique


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com