Topics

Waterleak


r.zurkirchen
 

Hi All,
on my SM #407 I have recognized during last season a waterleak.
In the box under the floor in front of the aft bathroom, ( between
the aft cabin door and the bathroomdoor and the wardrobe is a a
cover under the carpet ). The water only fills up when I am sailing.
When I am in the port or on anchor, no water comes in. Amel
recomendet to check if it comes from the toilet or from the shower.
All this I have checked without finding the cause. The water is
definitly salty. The leak make when sailing about 1-1.5 liter in 24
hours.
Is anyone, who had a similar experiance and knows how to repair?

For any help I am thankfull, because Amel could not help me further
in this respect.
Rudy of SAMANTHA


JOSE PRIETO
 

Same problem here! Any suggestion?

Cheers

--
Jose Prieto
SV Wayag, SM 323
Currently Alicante, Spain


 

Jose,

With the SM, at least 95% of the time, seawater in the area of the depth transducer and watertight bulkhead is seawater that has leaked past the bow thruster seals, as little as one drop at a time. These drops of seawater run along the inside of the hull and downhill until they accumulate in this area. All other areas will be dry. Sometimes in rough conditions seawater collected in this area can be thrown to small pockets under the shower pan, where they will stay until the right rough conditions will allow the water to escape. When it does, it accumulates in the same spot between the Depth transducer and the watertight bulkhead.

In rough seas with the bow moving up and down, there is a tremendous amount of pressure on the bow thruster shaft seals. In rough conditions, this pressure can cause minimal seepage of seawater past the foam and lip seals. The best thing to do to minimize this is to change the seals every two years and to be sure to use the safety pin which should compress the 2 bow thruster outside seals causing a very good seal. Some of the last SMs and all amels made after the SM have a seawater capture system that captures this seawater and drains it into the gray water tank.

I recommend monitoring the area between the Depth Transducer and the watertight bulkhead using a simple battery-powered water alarm.
image.png

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sat, Dec 19, 2020 at 12:21 PM JOSE PRIETO <prietomd11@...> wrote:
Same problem here! Any suggestion?

Cheers

--
Jose Prieto
SV Wayag, SM 323
Currently Alicante, Spain


Thomas Peacock
 

I have LOTS of experience with water in that location, and totally agree with Bill.

If, at one time, you had a lot of water in that bilge, some could have flowed over into a separate bilge under the closet. In rough seas, that can spill back into the visible bilge. You can slip your hand up into that area and check for water.

Also work checking all parts of the line running to the anchor wash.

Tom Peacock SM 240 Aletes
Chesapeake Bay

On Dec 19, 2020, at 1:43 PM, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:

Jose,

With the SM, at least 95% of the time, seawater in the area of the depth transducer and watertight bulkhead is seawater that has leaked past the bow thruster seals, as little as one drop at a time. These drops of seawater run along the inside of the hull and downhill until they accumulate in this area. All other areas will be dry. Sometimes in rough conditions seawater collected in this area can be thrown to small pockets under the shower pan, where they will stay until the right rough conditions will allow the water to escape. When it does, it accumulates in the same spot between the Depth transducer and the watertight bulkhead.

In rough seas with the bow moving up and down, there is a tremendous amount of pressure on the bow thruster shaft seals. In rough conditions, this pressure can cause minimal seepage of seawater past the foam and lip seals. The best thing to do to minimize this is to change the seals every two years and to be sure to use the safety pin which should compress the 2 bow thruster outside seals causing a very good seal. Some of the last SMs and all amels made after the SM have a seawater capture system that captures this seawater and drains it into the gray water tank.

I recommend monitoring the area between the Depth Transducer and the watertight bulkhead using a simple battery-powered water alarm.
<image.png>

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sat, Dec 19, 2020 at 12:21 PM JOSE PRIETO <prietomd11@...> wrote:
Same problem here! Any suggestion?

Cheers

--
Jose Prieto
SV Wayag, SM 323
Currently Alicante, Spain




--
Tom Peacock
SM 240 Aletes
Chesapeake Bay


Craig Briggs
 

Rudy and José,
While one possibility is leaking around BT seals, I'd suggest also carefully checking the head/anchor wash intake manifold coming off the thru-hull valve. Mine got pinhole corrosion leaks that got progressively worse over a few years until I finally spotted it, thinking all along it was the BT, but it was not.  Also, I'd suggest not closing the valve from the chain locker through the shower when underway - better to let that water flow through to the main grey-water sump and be pumped out. Could also try stuffing something squishy around the anchor chain to prevent sea water from entering the chain locker whilst underway.
Cheers, Craig - SN68 Sangaris, Tropic Isle Harbor, FL


JOSE PRIETO
 

Hello Bill!
I bought my SM a year ago and according to the ex-owner he did an overhaul on BT.
However I have no doubt that some drops are entering between the seals lips, because when sailing I perceive the subtle movement of the water drops.
Yet it seems to me that there is little water coming in, for the volume of water that appears in the bilge below the passage from the hall to the front cabin.
Yesterday before going out to sail, I removed all the water from that bilge. I sailed for about three hours in a totally calm sea, with a wind of 15 kt. After my arrival I checked the amount of water quite large that could be justified by the drops of BT. I am attaching some pictures.
I believe that there is somewhere else where water is entering.
I will adopt your suggestion from the water detector.
Thank you very much for your guidance and opinions.
At the beginning of next year I will haul the boat and then I will change the seals.
In the meantime, I will continue my search. :(

Thanks for the help

Cheers

--
Jose Prieto
SV Wayag, SM 323
Currently Alicante, Spain


JOSE PRIETO
 

Hi Thomas!

Thanks for your opinion!
I will check the anchor wash as well.

Cheers
--
Jose Prieto
SV Wayag, SM 323
Currently Alicante, Spain


JOSE PRIETO
 

Hi Craig!

Definitely I have to check the anchor wash based in yours and Thomas advice.
I'll post the results ASAP.
Thanks.

Cheers
 
--
Jose Prieto
SV Wayag, SM 323
Currently Alicante, Spain


 

Jose,

The anchor wash they refer to does NOT apply to your SM. Earlier model SMs had through-hulls between the salon/forward bulkhead to allow saltwater for the anchor wash pump located near the forward AC unit and to allow saltwater for the manual flush toilet. Unless someone has modified your SM, your SM has electric flush supply pumps for your toilets and an anchor wash pump in the engine room. Here are some photos I have of SM 323:
Anchor wash pump in engine room:
image.png
Electric flush:
image.png

Have you tested the water with a TDS meter to be sure it is seawater? You need to do this to include or exclude a freshwater or gray water leak.

If it is seepage from the Bow Thruster, the area I circled will fill with seawater first, then move to other areas as the bow moves through the water:
image.png


CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 4:52 AM JOSE PRIETO <prietomd11@...> wrote:
Hi Craig!

Definitely I have to check the anchor wash based in yours and Thomas advice.
I'll post the results ASAP.
Thanks.

Cheers
 
--
Jose Prieto
SV Wayag, SM 323
Currently Alicante, Spain


Ken Powers SV Aquarius
 

These are two different areas.  I had problems with both over the past 4 years, and here is what I found to be the problems:

The front bathroom has the depth transponder.  The leak in this area usually has to do with the O rings that go around the transponder.  Remove the transponder and replace with the transponder with the plug.  Take off all the O Rings, and go down to the local hardware store and buy a replacement set and a few spares.  Replace them, and put a lot of waterproof grease on the transponder shaft.  Replace the shaft.  I was amazed when there was no water in this area for over a year!  Yes, absolutely dry.

Regarding the area in front of the aft bathroom.  Unless you have a problem with the plumbing from the shower base, which would indicate you have many problems, the salt water is coming from 3 locations.  You have a leak around the rudder shaft, or you have a leak in the standing rigging fitting in the closet.  This is the only place that I can think of where you would get salt water intrusion in that area.  So, start checking where the water is coming from.  Dry everything, and start taping paper towels everywhere until you locate the source of the salt water.  

All the best, 

Ken Powers
Aquarius
SM2K#262


Michael & Robyn
 

Hi Jose,

we had similar puddles in the same area. I found that the hose clamp that holds the hose on the pipe through the wall aft had failed. It was only hold in place because the hose with clamp is very tight over the hull re-reinforcement (cross bracing) and prevents the broken clamp from falling down.
--
Michael & Robyn

SY RIPPLE SM2K # 417


JOSE PRIETO
 

Hello Bill!

You are correct in your observation regarding the anchor wash system in my SM.
So, I already discard this option.
Regarding TDS test, I did not made the accurate test.
I order a TDS meter, but the taste is salted, no color or smell.
As long as I observe, the first place to show the seawater (assumed) is where you mark the green area.
Can you help me to identify this hose (picture) that comes out of the bow and passes under the floor of the front wc .. Its entire extension is moist with salt water, despite being attached to the top of the floor.

Thanks for the help

--
Jose Prieto
SV Wayag, SM 323
Currently Alicante, Spain


JOSE PRIETO
 

Hello Ken,

Following your advice, I checked the transducer o'ring and it seems ok. I'll keep an eye on it.
Thanks god I'm not having problem with the aft bathroom, but its nice to know your experience about it.

Thank you very much for the advices,


Keep safe

--
Jose Prieto
SV Wayag, SM 323
Currently Alicante, Spain


 

This hose circled in green is the drain hose to the gray water sump (bilge). It carries mostly gray water, but some saltwater from the chain locker is carried to the bilge via this hose.
image.png
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Mon, Dec 21, 2020 at 5:01 AM JOSE PRIETO <prietomd11@...> wrote:
Hello Bill!

You are correct in your observation regarding the anchor wash system in my SM.
So, I already discard this option.
Regarding TDS test, I did not made the accurate test.
I order a TDS meter, but the taste is salted, no color or smell.
As long as I observe, the first place to show the seawater (assumed) is where you mark the green area.
Can you help me to identify this hose (picture) that comes out of the bow and passes under the floor of the front wc .. Its entire extension is moist with salt water, despite being attached to the top of the floor.

Thanks for the help

--
Jose Prieto
SV Wayag, SM 323
Currently Alicante, Spain


Ken Powers SV Aquarius
 

Jose,

The O rings might look good, but still a good idea to change them out if you haven't already done so.  Make sure you put a lot of grease on the shaft before you put it back in the hole.

Ken
Aquarius
SM2K#262


Thomas Kleman
 

One bit of advice- finding a leak on a boat would be easy if it never heeled or stressed during sailing. But since it does, the path of the leak can appear uphill or circuitous when moored or at anchor. We use baby powder in strategic places to try to trace the path of the liquid. Works well.

Tom and Kirstin
SV L'ORIENT
SM2K 422


Chris Doucette
 

Also— consider some food coloring to help identify sources of leakage :)


Craig Briggs
 

Another way to skin the cat - tape plastic over the inside of a large area like windows, put in a hole and blow in air from small shop vac, Leave air running and spray diluted dish soap on outside and watch for bubbles. Great for hairline leaks. Then apply "Captain Tolley's (Amazing) Creeping Crack Cure". Guaranteed!
--
Craig  - Merry Christmas to all.