Topics

When to use Running Back Stays and Onan Control Board PCB

 

Alan,

Probably about $2k NZ for the board. I recently helped an owner source a OEM board for about $1300 US. 

Be careful because there are many variations of the board. It probably changed with each new Model and I think changed once within a Model. Use Model and Serial to match to ensure the right board and/or check with an Onan dealer for the correct board part number using serial number. I can imagine that the board could cause the hard start issue that you have.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970



On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 4:21 AM Alan Leslie <s.v.elyse@...> wrote:
Hi JP,
Yes around $2k I believe....are you staying in Fiji all season?
I've been on Elyse for a week, going home tomorrow, returning mid November.
See you then.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437

Paul Brown
 

Hi Bill, if possible on another note, can you please advise me on when to use the moving back stays associated to the stay sail?

Is it only in strong winds and regardless of if using the Genoa at the same time?

Kind regards Paul A55#17


On 12 Aug 2019, at 3:23 pm, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:

Alan,

Probably about $2k NZ for the board. I recently helped an owner source a OEM board for about $1300 US. 

Be careful because there are many variations of the board. It probably changed with each new Model and I think changed once within a Model. Use Model and Serial to match to ensure the right board and/or check with an Onan dealer for the correct board part number using serial number. I can imagine that the board could cause the hard start issue that you have.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970



On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 4:21 AM Alan Leslie <s.v.elyse@...> wrote:
Hi JP,
Yes around $2k I believe....are you staying in Fiji all season?
I've been on Elyse for a week, going home tomorrow, returning mid November.
See you then.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437

 

Paul,

I believe it should be a similar rule as to "when to use a preventer when sailing downwind," so my answer is: "all of the time you use the staysail (Trinket)." Wind has a habit of almost never warning us when she is going to give us a burst.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970



On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 8:43 AM Paul Brown <feeder.brown@...> wrote:
Hi Bill, if possible on another note, can you please advise me on when to use the moving back stays associated to the stay sail?

Is it only in strong winds and regardless of if using the Genoa at the same time?

Kind regards Paul A55#17


On 12 Aug 2019, at 3:23 pm, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:

Alan,

Probably about $2k NZ for the board. I recently helped an owner source a OEM board for about $1300 US. 

Be careful because there are many variations of the board. It probably changed with each new Model and I think changed once within a Model. Use Model and Serial to match to ensure the right board and/or check with an Onan dealer for the correct board part number using serial number. I can imagine that the board could cause the hard start issue that you have.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970



On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 4:21 AM Alan Leslie <s.v.elyse@...> wrote:
Hi JP,
Yes around $2k I believe....are you staying in Fiji all season?
I've been on Elyse for a week, going home tomorrow, returning mid November.
See you then.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437

Scott SV Tengah
 

I agree that you should ideally use the running backstay anytime you are using the staysail. I will say we do use the preventers anytime we go greater than 100deg apparent. It doesn't take long and the downside is too big.

That said, we don't do everything perfectly aboard Tengah all the time. Regarding the running backstay, if you ever see the baby forestay getting loose from the staysail pulling the mast forward, you definitely want to use the running backstay at that point. 
--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Paul Brown
 

Thanks Scott, does this mean the running back stay is used up or down wind when the stay stay is used? I’m new to a ketch and have a lot to learn- regards Paul 


On 13 Aug 2019, at 8:54 pm, Scott SV Tengah <sv.tengah@...> wrote:

I agree that you should ideally use the running backstay anytime you are using the staysail. I will say we do use the preventers anytime we go greater than 100deg apparent. It doesn't take long and the downside is too big.

That said, we don't do everything perfectly aboard Tengah all the time. Regarding the running backstay, if you ever see the baby forestay getting loose from the staysail pulling the mast forward, you definitely want to use the running backstay at that point. 
--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Scott SV Tengah
 

I'm sure others have done it before, but we don't use the staysail downwind.

We either use it in lieu of the genoa in 28+ knot apparent winds upwind or just going upwind along with the genoa. The latter sometimes allows approx. 10 degree higher pointing angles, but not always. Keep in mind I have a 54 and not a 55. Just give it a go and see how the boat responds. I will tell you that you don't want the baby forestay (or any standing rigging really) flapping about.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Paul Brown
 

Thanks very much Scott, that helps me along also

Regards Paul - Fortuna II 55#17


On 14 Aug 2019, at 3:51 am, Scott SV Tengah <sv.tengah@...> wrote:

I'm sure others have done it before, but we don't use the staysail downwind.

We either use it in lieu of the genoa in 28+ knot apparent winds upwind or just going upwind along with the genoa. The latter sometimes allows approx. 10 degree higher pointing angles, but not always. Keep in mind I have a 54 and not a 55. Just give it a go and see how the boat responds. I will tell you that you don't want the baby forestay (or any standing rigging really) flapping about.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Porter McRoberts
 

Scott. That’s exactly what we do re the staysail and the running backstay. Awesome sail that allows pointing quite high, really stabilized the ship. Also adds about a knot in light upwind going when used in conjunction with the Genoa. We occasionally even sheet it to the opposite site allowing for a few extra degrees upwind in light airs and calm seas.

Porter

S/v IBIS
54-152
Maupiti (and a trickle of internet)

Excuse the errors.
Sent from my IPhone
Www.fouribis.com

On Aug 13, 2019, at 7:35 PM, Paul Brown <feeder.brown@...> wrote:

Paul Brown
 

Hi Porter,

Could you please explain how you sheet it to the opposite side? I appreciate the knowledge

Regards Paul - Fortuna II 55#17

On 14 Aug 2019, at 7:55 am, Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io <portermcroberts=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Scott. That’s exactly what we do re the staysail and the running backstay. Awesome sail that allows pointing quite high, really stabilized the ship. Also adds about a knot in light upwind going when used in conjunction with the Genoa. We occasionally even sheet it to the opposite site allowing for a few extra degrees upwind in light airs and calm seas.

Porter

S/v IBIS
54-152
Maupiti (and a trickle of internet)

Excuse the errors.
Sent from my IPhone
Www.fouribis.com

On Aug 13, 2019, at 7:35 PM, Paul Brown <feeder.brown@...> wrote:




Alan Leslie
 

Unusually we have a staysail (trinquete) on our Super Maramu.
We had a staysail on our previous 12m IOR yacht also.
You use the running backstays ALWAYS when using the staysail, because it supports the mast.
Otherwise the only support is at the top of the mast and the tension on the staysail luff will cause the mast to pump, which will destroy the mast in  big winds.
So the deal is when you sheet the staysail on the port, side for example, the running backstay on the starboard side is wound on the starboard winch...tight.
When you tack, you swap sides, staysail sheet on starboard winch, port side runner on port winch...  
Generally going upwind in strong breeze is when we use the staysail, the genoa is too baggy when reefed, it's not possible to maintain a good angle to the wind.

So ALWAYS use the runners when going up wind with the staysail.

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437

Alan Leslie
 

Thanks Bill

327-1533 is the number we have for the MDKAV.
I'm still waiting to hear from my man how the windings tested out.

How did this get in a thread about Running backstays ??

Cheers
Alan
 

Paul Brown
 

Thank you Alan, I appreciate the information and this will assist me

Regards Paul - Fortuna II 55#17


On 15 Aug 2019, at 2:00 pm, Alan Leslie <s.v.elyse@...> wrote:

Unusually we have a staysail (trinquete) on our Super Maramu.
We had a staysail on our previous 12m IOR yacht also.
You use the running backstays ALWAYS when using the staysail, because it supports the mast.
Otherwise the only support is at the top of the mast and the tension on the staysail luff will cause the mast to pump, which will destroy the mast in  big winds.
So the deal is when you sheet the staysail on the port, side for example, the running backstay on the starboard side is wound on the starboard winch...tight.
When you tack, you swap sides, staysail sheet on starboard winch, port side runner on port winch...  
Generally going upwind in strong breeze is when we use the staysail, the genoa is too baggy when reefed, it's not possible to maintain a good angle to the wind.

So ALWAYS use the runners when going up wind with the staysail.

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437

 

Alan,

Check with your local Onan dealer. I think your Onan part is 327-1533 PCB Assembly. There are several places I found in the US that have this part in the $1,200 - $1,300 range.
image.png
Best,

CW Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970



On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 7:04 AM Alan Leslie <s.v.elyse@...> wrote:
Thanks Bill

327-1533 is the number we have for the MDKAV.
I'm still waiting to hear from my man how the windings tested out.

How did this get in a thread about Running backstays ??

Cheers
Alan
 

Joerg Esdorn
 

Amel has published the attached guide regarding the use of runners on the A55.   This can be found on the Amel Club website, just as several other short papers on operation and maintenance of the boat.  

SY STELLA
 

Hi Porter,
Sounds like your travels are going with a more normal level of smoothness now! Do you plan to visit Australia, and if so, when do you expect to be there?

Regarding the runners, do you have a block fitting as shown in the attached pic for your runners?  It’s attached to the base of the staunchion adjacent to the Amel logo on the coach house. It was on Stella when we bought, but I’m not sure if it’s an original fit. It looks like it’s a pull-tight arrangement and I didn’t think it was really up to the task if the wind gets up seriously, so I’ve been using a heftier block on the rear lifting points, and using the rear cockpit winch to tension.

Maybe I could re-deploy these fittings to rig a releasable Barber hauler like you describe for a more inboard sheeting angle... hmmm. 

Cheers
Dean
SY Stella
A54-154

 

Dean,

Thanks for the photo. I have been on 12 54s and none had this block that would attach to stantion, although this is what I envisioned. Several of my clients rigged something like this with cam cleats to do the job.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970



On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 11:57 AM SY STELLA <stella@...> wrote:
Hi Porter,
Sounds like your travels are going with a more normal level of smoothness now! Do you plan to visit Australia, and if so, when do you expect to be there?

Regarding the runners, do you have a block fitting as shown in the attached pic for your runners?  It’s attached to the base of the staunchion adjacent to the Amel logo on the coach house. It was on Stella when we bought, but I’m not sure if it’s an original fit. It looks like it’s a pull-tight arrangement and I didn’t think it was really up to the task if the wind gets up seriously, so I’ve been using a heftier block on the rear lifting points, and using the rear cockpit winch to tension.

Maybe I could re-deploy these fittings to rig a releasable Barber hauler like you describe for a more inboard sheeting angle... hmmm. 

Cheers
Dean
SY Stella
A54-154

Alan Leslie
 

I wouldn't trust a little block like that. Our dyneema runners when in use go from the mast at the attachment point of the inner forestay and connect to a 2:1 polyseter rig with the a fairly large block attached to the lifting plate and then using the aft cockpit winch. When noit in use the runners are held down and forward by a 2:1 rig attached tio a stanchion and to the runner with a snatch hook.
The rig needs to be strong, its holding your mast straighjt!
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437

Scott SV Tengah
 

Joerg,

Great article, but it seems some of the photos are missing. I am curious how the "backstay extension" works. I simply have a pair of 18m long 10mm kevlar lines that I keep on the stanchions near the mast using a simple trucker's hitch. It's not elegant because there's a lot of leftover which I take care of using a rolling hitch.

Then the article starts talking about a storage tackle for the running backstay! Do you have this backstay extension and the storage tackle?

Can you repost with all the pics? I have a feeling I may have been doing it wrong all along, not an unlikely situation. Thanks.
--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Joerg Esdorn
 

Scott, the runners on my boat are in two parts.  Part one comes down from the mast and ends in a loop 1 m above the deck and is tensioned with a block and tackle to the base of the shrouds with a snap shackle for storage when the runners are not in use.  Part two ends with a snap shackle  that hooks into the loop at the end of part one and the other end runs through the spin sheet block to the spinnaker winch.  When you use the runners, you unhook the shackle of the “storage” block and tackle and hook part two into the loop at the end of part one.  I’m not on the boat for another week but can post some pictures when I do.  Meanwhile I hope this helps. 

Joerg Esdorn
A55 Kincsem

Scott SV Tengah
 

Joerg,

That would be great to see the pics. Our single 18 line is not easy to deploy/put away so we end up using it much less than we would like. What do you do with the storage block/tackle when the runners are in use? Clip to the stanchion?


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com