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Windlass/Genoa Furler electrical problem, circuit breaker bad?


Davi Rozgonyi
 

Hey Amelians! So I'm stuck here in total lockdown in Greece (really can't complain, it's amazing), so it's not a tragedy, but the circuit breaker on the windlass/genoa circuit of our SM is tripped at some point this winter (in the last few weeks sometime) and won't stay in the up/on position. Being in lockdown, getting parts is almost impossible, but I do have a spare 100A circuit breaker that would fit. Since the space to install is very limited (I can't even put a multimeter probe on the top of the breaker without pulling things out), I was hoping I could get confirmation from y'all that the circuit breaker is the most likely culprit....

SYMPTOMS: When I use the dashboard switches for windlass or genoa (or the foot switch for the windlass also), the solenoids in the cabinet click happily and strongly. But the breaker stays down, and nothing will keep it up. When I cut the 24v power at the battery banks, the circuit breaker still will not remain on. If I hold the breaker open/up and have someone activate the switches in the cockpit, still nothing but clicking from the solenoids. 

Anyone see a problem with swapping out that breaker as the fix? How often do they fail? I don't remember a broken breaker being a very common thing in my life, so just wondering before I wedge myself up there and start hammering :D 

Many thanks! 
Davi
Wake
SM56


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Davi,

I would advise care. A breaker pops usually because there is a short circuit down stream from it. It is there to stop wiring burning or electrical gear being damaged. So adding a high amp replacement is high risk.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 03 April 2020 at 17:33 Davi Rozgonyi <davi.rozgonyi@...> wrote:

Hey Amelians! So I'm stuck here in total lockdown in Greece (really can't complain, it's amazing), so it's not a tragedy, but the circuit breaker on the windlass/genoa circuit of our SM is tripped at some point this winter (in the last few weeks sometime) and won't stay in the up/on position. Being in lockdown, getting parts is almost impossible, but I do have a spare 100A circuit breaker that would fit. Since the space to install is very limited (I can't even put a multimeter probe on the top of the breaker without pulling things out), I was hoping I could get confirmation from y'all that the circuit breaker is the most likely culprit....

SYMPTOMS: When I use the dashboard switches for windlass or genoa (or the foot switch for the windlass also), the solenoids in the cabinet click happily and strongly. But the breaker stays down, and nothing will keep it up. When I cut the 24v power at the battery banks, the circuit breaker still will not remain on. If I hold the breaker open/up and have someone activate the switches in the cockpit, still nothing but clicking from the solenoids. 

Anyone see a problem with swapping out that breaker as the fix? How often do they fail? I don't remember a broken breaker being a very common thing in my life, so just wondering before I wedge myself up there and start hammering :D 

Many thanks! 
Davi
Wake
SM56


Davi Rozgonyi
 

Hey Danny, just to clarify, the breaker there now is 100A, so this is a straightforward swap. I'm trying to get my head around the odds it is the breaker. Both windlass and genoa worked fine a week before this. Wouldn't the breaker stay up if the battery power was cut off to the circuit if it was still good, even if there were a short? There should be no power going to the devices, hence no short to flip the breaker...? 


Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Davi,

If it is a swap to a new breaker of the same capacity that is a reasonable test with low risk. Just do not hold it up if it pops.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 03 April 2020 at 19:19 Davi Rozgonyi <davi.rozgonyi@...> wrote:

Hey Danny, just to clarify, the breaker there now is 100A, so this is a straightforward swap. I'm trying to get my head around the odds it is the breaker. Both windlass and genoa worked fine a week before this. Wouldn't the breaker stay up if the battery power was cut off to the circuit if it was still good, even if there were a short? There should be no power going to the devices, hence no short to flip the breaker...? 


Marco Mancini
 

DEARS, 
it could be that the  two windlass  switches on the top of the anchor windlass maight  allow some water infiltration that  causes the problems of the short circuit with the relative high ampere flux. 
We had to substitute the switches  . 
Cheers
marco mancini 
SM 304


Il giorno 03 apr 2020, alle ore 06:33, Davi Rozgonyi via groups.io <davi.rozgonyi@...> ha scritto:

Hey Amelians! So I'm stuck here in total lockdown in Greece (really can't complain, it's amazing), so it's not a tragedy, but the circuit breaker on the windlass/genoa circuit of our SM is tripped at some point this winter (in the last few weeks sometime) and won't stay in the up/on position. Being in lockdown, getting parts is almost impossible, but I do have a spare 100A circuit breaker that would fit. Since the space to install is very limited (I can't even put a multimeter probe on the top of the breaker without pulling things out), I was hoping I could get confirmation from y'all that the circuit breaker is the most likely culprit....

SYMPTOMS: When I use the dashboard switches for windlass or genoa (or the foot switch for the windlass also), the solenoids in the cabinet click happily and strongly. But the breaker stays down, and nothing will keep it up. When I cut the 24v power at the battery banks, the circuit breaker still will not remain on. If I hold the breaker open/up and have someone activate the switches in the cockpit, still nothing but clicking from the solenoids. 

Anyone see a problem with swapping out that breaker as the fix? How often do they fail? I don't remember a broken breaker being a very common thing in my life, so just wondering before I wedge myself up there and start hammering :D 

Many thanks! 
Davi
Wake
SM56


Davi Rozgonyi
 

Hey there, and thanks! Our windlass has no switch on top, so that's out. I'm betting on the bad circuit breaker still.... 


Jamie Wendell
 

Davi, almost certainly it is a defective breaker. The breaker should stay on if you flip it on WITHOUT power to the circuit. The fact that it always stays off indicates a broken latching mechanism in the breaker.
Good luck with replacement and you "stay" in Greece.
Stay safe.
Jamie
Phantom, A54 #44


 

Davi,

That entire board is removable. Look for the single black thumbscrew inside the door where the breaker is located. I have known this breaker to fail, but it is unusual.

BTW, when you have the board loose, there is plenty of wire to pull that board out so that you can operate on it. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse 
Amel Owners Yacht School
+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com 
Yacht School Calendar: www.preparetocastoff.blogspot.com/p/calendar.html


   


On Thu, Apr 2, 2020, 11:33 PM Davi Rozgonyi <davi.rozgonyi@...> wrote:
Hey Amelians! So I'm stuck here in total lockdown in Greece (really can't complain, it's amazing), so it's not a tragedy, but the circuit breaker on the windlass/genoa circuit of our SM is tripped at some point this winter (in the last few weeks sometime) and won't stay in the up/on position. Being in lockdown, getting parts is almost impossible, but I do have a spare 100A circuit breaker that would fit. Since the space to install is very limited (I can't even put a multimeter probe on the top of the breaker without pulling things out), I was hoping I could get confirmation from y'all that the circuit breaker is the most likely culprit....

SYMPTOMS: When I use the dashboard switches for windlass or genoa (or the foot switch for the windlass also), the solenoids in the cabinet click happily and strongly. But the breaker stays down, and nothing will keep it up. When I cut the 24v power at the battery banks, the circuit breaker still will not remain on. If I hold the breaker open/up and have someone activate the switches in the cockpit, still nothing but clicking from the solenoids. 

Anyone see a problem with swapping out that breaker as the fix? How often do they fail? I don't remember a broken breaker being a very common thing in my life, so just wondering before I wedge myself up there and start hammering :D 

Many thanks! 
Davi
Wake
SM56


Craig Briggs
 

Davi - to add to Jamie's comment, I've had 4 or 5 breakers fail since my boat reached about 15 years old. Your A54 is getting to that point, so I wouldn't consider it surprising to see a failure. Fortunately, and as designed, the failures leave the breaker open.
Craig


Davi Rozgonyi
 

Thanks, all! I'll give it a go and report back later. And Bill, THANKS for that tip. It'll make all the difference in the world to getting me up off the couch and into the forecabin to start :)


Alan Leslie
 

We have had a genoa furling solenoid fail on that board. We now carry two spares.
I concur with Bill, the whole assembly comes out with a long loom, very easy to work on, and of course for testing voltages etc.
Same goes for the board that holds the main furler solenoids in the top of the aft wall of the forward head.
Very well thought out - more Amel stuff to appreciate!
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437 - Covid bound in New Zealand


Davi Rozgonyi
 

Hey all, so thanks to Bill's advice to remove the whole panel via the knob (which I really should have noticed but there were clothes packed into the second-most forward cubby), I yanked it and replaced the breaker. Great success! :D Everything works. 

One surprise to me: I measured the breaker having 12 volts running through it. Is this normal? I would have thought it would be 24, like the rest of the system.... The windlass/furler work fine, just wondering.... shouldn't that hefty 100a breaker be on the 24volt circuit? Or is that only covering the solenoids or something? Or did I miss something simple? 

Sorry for the dumb@ss question.... my field of expertise (VWs) only had one voltage :D 


 

Yes, that breaker is for the 24 volt windlass and genoa furler. Maybe your meter is set wrong or you didn't use the 24 volt negative. Check again. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse 
Amel Owners Yacht School
+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com 
Yacht School Calendar: www.preparetocastoff.blogspot.com/p/calendar.html


   

On Sun, Apr 5, 2020, 12:05 AM Davi Rozgonyi <davi.rozgonyi@...> wrote:
Hey all, so thanks to Bill's advice to remove the whole panel via the knob (which I really should have noticed but there were clothes packed into the second-most forward cubby), I yanked it and replaced the breaker. Great success! :D Everything works. 

One surprise to me: I measured the breaker having 12 volts running through it. Is this normal? I would have thought it would be 24, like the rest of the system.... The windlass/furler work fine, just wondering.... shouldn't that hefty 100a breaker be on the 24volt circuit? Or is that only covering the solenoids or something? Or did I miss something simple? 

Sorry for the dumb@ss question.... my field of expertise (VWs) only had one voltage :D 


Davi Rozgonyi
 

I figured I was an idiot, and it turns out I was correct :) 


 

I don't think you are an idiot, but I KNOW YOU ARE VERY FUNNY!😀
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar
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On Sun, Apr 5, 2020 at 9:50 AM Davi Rozgonyi <davi.rozgonyi@...> wrote:
I figured I was an idiot, and it turns out I was correct :) 


Thomas Kleman
 

Alan- would you be good enough to tell me where you got the Genoa furling solenoid spares ? Thx

Tom and Kirstin
SV L'ORIENT
SM2K 422
3 days left of quarantine in Oahu


eric freedman
 

Hi Tom,

I got mine from Maud.

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Thomas Kleman
Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2020 7:10 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Windlass/Genoa Furler electrical problem, circuit breaker bad?

 

Alan- would you be good enough to tell me where you got the Genoa furling solenoid spares ? Thx

Tom and Kirstin
SV L'ORIENT
SM2K 422
3 days left of quarantine in Oahu


Alan Leslie
 

Hi Tom,

i sourced them from SAV at Amel.fr

Maud, in other words....

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437